New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: DrewMcAvon on December 31, 2020, 03:41:04 PM
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I am trouble shooting why the handle won’t pull unless I manually trip the coil on the handle mechanism. I also notice that the 1st coin played panel is always lighted. When I put a coin in, it does not light up the second panel unless I trip the solenoid on the payout wheel to the right of the hopper. when I do both of these manual steps and pull handle and win, the payout seems to be correct and the counter shows winning number of nickels. The first panel stays lighted, even thought I did not drop a coin in. When I do drop a coin in the second panel does not light up and I cannot pull the handle. I am not sure where to check first. One note, the comparator is not hooked up, all nickels pass through and trip the coin in lever. Some pictures below. Any help/suggestions are appreciated.
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I'm not sure how similar an 1008 is but my 873 was doing that same thing last week after ~6 months of not being played.
If you manually trip the coin in switch do you hear a coil fire? On my Bally I could hear the coin in counter solenoid in the top box but the coin in lights never incremented. We powered down, pulled the top tray and exercised the coin in counter from 0 to max and reset several times. After re-seating and power-on it correctly registered coin insertion and played correctly.
My assumption was that the counter was just sticking?
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Check the coin relay switches located on the bottom left rear of the reel mechanism.
Lightly clean the contacts, check to see if the contacts are aligned and not out of adjustment.
Also look for any loose or broken wires.
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Thank you both for suggestions. I will look at the coin relay as suggested. Regarding Off-Track’s suggestion, I do hear a coil fire near top of box, but I am not sure where the coin counter is that you suggest resetting. The machines may not be similar.
I inspected the coin relay and found the pictured coil may be bad. I am not getting an Ohm reading. I have a working G-40 12000 coil, but not sure what the pictured coil is. It looks like the g-40 12000.
Another update, I can read the coil spec, it is a F-31 1500. I will try and locate a replacement as I doubt the G-40 12000 I have will work.
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the schematic and other paperwork for a 1008-3 is on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ (http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/)
if your game is a different version (or just the base 1008), it should be close but some reel wiper wiring and optional bits like tower light would be a little different.
you need the coin relay to trip when depositing a coin for the handle release relay to trip. If the coin relay isn't tripping, fix that first, then do what davidlee suggested or use the schem to see which switches you care about for a particular problem.
the handle release relay needs to trip or the odds unit won't step up on the 2nd+ coins played.
the payout counter should reset when you spin the reels. If it doesn't, the game will only pay a higher win than wherever the payout counter stopped previously.
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The model is a 1088, Not a 1008 as I previously stated. I ordered a new F-31 1500, but was wondering if the G-40 12000 that I have will work?
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the 1088 docs are there too :-)
if I remember right, the new coil numbers are spool_form-wire_gauge-number_turns
the difference between an F and G spool ... dunno. If it's the same dimensions and mounting tho, you have a chance.
a g-40-12000 is around 2100 ohms. An F-31-1500 is more like 1500 ohms. Generally speaking, more wire turns = higher resistance = weaker coil, so the worse case seems like the G-40 wouldn't trip the coin relay. Bung it in and find out! The bright side is assuming your coin unit is resetting and opening the "open-at-zero" switch, the coin relay coil doesn't stay powered, so you aren't likely to burn it up.
the 1088 does have a 2400 ohm precharge resistor connected to the coin relay coil ... you may need to disconnect it if the coil gets too hot when the game is sitting there doing nothing.
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Thanks for response. I think I will wait to get the correct sized coil so I don’t introduce another variable to consider. Regarding the spring/leaf switches, is there a method/approach to match the physical switch to the schematic? I am confused on how to know which leaf switch I am looking at on the schematic so I know if normally open or closed. Thanks
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Letters on the coils indicate coil size, then wire size and last the number of turns.
Regarding matching the schematic to the the actual switch can be done by the color code.
Photo of a 1088 reels left side. Maybe this will help.
I will try and find a better photo of the wiring on the coin relay.
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By “color code†do u mean the color of the wires? Your picture is the same as on my wheel. So I need to know the name of the switch and then find that on the schematic? One of the manuals I downloaded has the switch names I believe.
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The switches are labeled within the schematic.
A call out box with a number in it corresponds to the wire color.
Example 31 is the yellow red if my memory serves me right.
The secondary number is how many times the wire color has been used in the machine.
Within the circuit wire color will change between components.
Which is good evidence you’ve identified the correct part / location.
So what state is the machine in now?
Also, did you test the coil in question?
With the common yellow and a energized orange connected to the coil, it should create a magnetic force.
This force should attract a screwdriver if working properly.
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I tested the coil with multimeter and did not get any Ohm reading. I don’t have a power supply as I am new to this. I do have a 12 volt DC power supply that I bought but did not use for another machine. I could hook up AC and run some wires from the DC side. Or would you suggest I purchase a power supply? I ordered a new coil for the one shown in the picture, it will be in late next week.
Regarding the state of the machine. when I trip a few of the coils manually, I can pull the handle and coins payout correctly, the counter advances and then resets to 0. I replaced some lights and ballasts and cleaned the tube on the right of the wheel. the bell rings when paying out. So I am close, i hope.
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take a look at the coil and see if the coil wire is broken off the solder lug or poorly soldered. If so, you can reattached.
if that's no good, pull off the wrapper and see if the coil wire is broken someplace visible. It's ok to remove a few turns of disconnected wire and reattach the end going to the rest of the coil if you can. You need to remove the insulating varnish to get solder to stick.
since you've determined the coin relay is bad, to play test the game looking for other problems you can hold down the coin switch, manually trip the coin relay with a dowel/chopstick, then let go of the coin switch. Successive coin switch closures should work to enable 2nd and 3rd coin features.
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You can use the 54 volts within the machine to test components.
Some experience and lots of caution should be considered.
Sounds like the machine is ready to run with a new coil.
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I am not comfortable hooking up power to test the coil, so I will stay clear for now so I don’t end up causing more damage. I do want to remove the wrapper and inspect the coil that I think is bad, perhaps I can find a break. If nothing else, give me experience de-soldering. I will update post once I install the new coil. Thanks for the help.
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In some cases the short smaller lead wire will be broken, but undetectable.
Check continuity from the solder hole to the main coil wire connection.
Best not to take a chance testing parts with the machine power.
I prefer not to, so I built a bench tester from salvage machine parts.
Although you have a new coil ordered, it’s good learning practice to investigate suspect parts.
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I am happy to report that with your help and a new coil installed, the handle now pulls after coin inserted. The only issue I see after 20 minutes of play, is sometime the second coin in does not light up the second panel at top. If I put a third coin in it may or may not light up. The third coin in always works once the second coin it works. I see on the schematic that the Coin Unit Disc controls this? Any suggestions? Could this be a contact issue or lubrication needed?
I will mark this issue as resolved since the handle now pulls after coin is accepted.
:thank_you:
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Odds step up unit contacts may need to be cleaned.
Or there’s a loose wire connection for the 2nd coin lights.
Most likely if you keep playing the machine the 2nd coin lights will start working normally.
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Where is the odds step up unit? Is that the wheel to the right of the hopper?
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Up behind the top glass. In the 1088 it’s attached to the back right of the light board.
Upon removing the glass, place it face down on the work surface.
Pull the two metal L latches down, tilt the light board outward.
Advance the odds unit by depressing the coin in switch.
Try cleaning the odds unit rivet board first then test.
If that doesn’t work, then examine the contacts and lightly clean.
Also check the wires on the second coin section of the light board.
There’s a slim chance a wire is barely hanging on.
Most likely it the odds unit.
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thank you, I will take a look at the areas you suggest later today.
Not sure my original explanation was complete. It is true that sometimes the second coin panel does not light up when a second coin is put in, but the machine also does not register that a second coin was dropped. I know this since I put two nickels in and only the first coin panel was lite, then I pulled handle and hit three oranges (which should have paid 10 if it registered the second coin), but nothing was paid since only cherries pay on a single coin. Does this information change your troubleshooting recommendation?
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the coin unit (also called odds unit on some models) not stepping would be a different issue than cruddy rivets on the unit.
the coin unit steps when the coin step-up relay powers. You could either check the switch on that relay with the orange/green and red/black wires, or watch and see if the coin step-up relay isn't powering sometimes.
if there's an intermittent powering issue, check the handle release relay switch with wires 23-1 (blue/yellow) and 92 (gray/blue) on the blades.
if it's neither of those switches, could be cruddy plug connections.
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You could manually step the odds unit.
It wouldn’t prove much, but it would eliminate the contacts and rivets pertaining to the lights and odds
It’s been awhile, but I think one of the three relay switches pulses the odds unit.
These are located on the back of the light board center left rear face out.
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I can manually step the odds unit and the lights work for first, second, and third coin. So it may not be the rivets (I cleaned them anyway)
When I triggered the coin in when door open what I observed is on the times the second coin does not advance the odds unit, the middle coil in picture fires again (instead of the coil on the right, which advances the odds unit to the second coin in). If i put a third coin in the coil on right fires sometimes, and sometimes I need to put a forth coin in to fire. I checked for loose wires in the area picture. What makes the middle coil fire instead of the one on the right? (I never see the first coil fire).
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The coil that fires may have contact issues.
Trace the wires back from the step up coil to the bank of relays.
Meter them out for continuity.
You can also meter the contacts on the step up unit for continuity.
Manually step the unit then release it, observe the contact push rod.
As to be sure it returns all the way, opening and closing contacts.
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When I triggered the coin in when door open what I observed is on the times the second coin does not advance the odds unit, the middle coil in picture fires again (instead of the coil on the right, which advances the odds unit to the second coin in). If i put a third coin in the coil on right fires sometimes, and sometimes I need to put a forth coin in to fire. I checked for loose wires in the area picture. What makes the middle coil fire instead of the one on the right? (I never see the first coil fire).
if there's no labels on the relays, the easiest way to figure out what they are is look at the wire colors on the coil. One will almost always be orange, but the other will let you match the coil to the schematic.
can you fix your picture?
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I fixed the picture, thanks for letting me know (attached here again). So the coil fires and makes the solenoid on the step up unit advance the wheel, correct?
What I am seeing is the middle coil fires when the first coin is inserted, then the coil on the right fires when the second coin is inserted (that is what is supposed to happen). Instead, sometimes, the middle coil fires when the second coin it inserted instead of the coil on the right. the solenoid on the step up unit does not fire. When I put a subsequent coin in, the correct coil on the right will fire and advance the step up unit and all looks good. So this intermittent issue is what I am trying to fix.
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Manually operate the step up unit as to make sure its moving freely.
Check the wire connections on the middle and right relay switches.
Manually operate the coil armature to see if the contacts are touching its counter part.
They should push the opposing contact noticeably to see it move.
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I believe I found the root cause. The handle release coil was firing but not completely releasing the lever. Subsequent coins would eventually force the lever to release. In my attempt to remove the coil and clearn/lubricate around the area, I broke off a very poorly soldered end of the coil. When I tried to repair by uncoiling a few times, more damage. No need for details here, but now I need to replace that coil. I could only read part of the wrapper. It is a 2100 coil, but I am not sure the size. Anyone know the size so I can replace? I will look to see if I have parts list for the 1088. Thanks in advance.
I found it on parts list. It is a F-31-2100
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I installed new coil on handle release and filed down some rough edges on the lever. the first, second, third coin in works consistently now. I have an issue resetting hopper/payout unit after large payout, but I will open another thread since this is resolved. Thanks for everyone’s help.