New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: Phan000 on August 11, 2020, 06:28:25 AM
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I picked up an 809 yesterday in freeplay mode. Bally Model plate states- 809-ZZB, MT- 17160. It also has an IGT plate which seems odd?
(https://i.imgur.com/UilTrgY.jpeg)
The lockout for the handle does not seem to reset, but the solenoid looks pretty clean.
(https://i.imgur.com/kAqZhEp.jpeg)
Also, the stepper does not reset automatically after a game, though it does if manually reset.
(https://i.imgur.com/lDPAc6L.jpeg)
Additionally, the insert coin light turns off when 5 coins are accepted, but the coin accepted light stays off.
(https://i.imgur.com/Gm9hBtf.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lK159Mv.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HJRo6Oo.jpeg)
Any thoughts on what is my first step to get this machine operating properly?
Thanks!
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Si Redd had Bally Distributing in Reno then later went on to found IGT. I'd guess the game was taken in on trade by IGT and they added their serial/tracking plate.
the paperwork for the game is on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ (http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/) - if you're a schematic reading guy, that should help solve some of your problems. If you aren't familiar with the schem, yell and someone will help out with more info.
the bally 400 manual on the above site has exploded parts diagrams and other info for the 809
the handle release relay is missing the armature plate + spring and I'd guess some of the switches are misadjusted. Once you source the missing piece(s), check the switches to make sure they do something sensible when the armature is reset and tripped.
the odds unit will reset correctly once the handle switches work.
the armature part number is A-637-5A and the spring is SP-100-38B. Maybe someone with a parts pile has the entire assembly or the parts suppliers should have the bits. Looks like Barry on ebay has a listing for the armature, but ask for the spring also.
great pics btw ... nicely lit and hi-res! Post as many of the insides of the game as you like.
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Thanks for the suggestions. I was able
To source the armature, but not the spring.
Is there perhaps a generic equivalent, or a pinball part?
Also, if someone has a photo of how it is suppose to look when installed, it would be greatly appreciated!
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below pic is from a 929, so switches are different ... and the blades shouldn't be kinked. I'll have to fix that.
the purple arrow is pointing to the armature mounting bracket you have visible in your pic. Two bracket holes for the pins on the armature end, one hole for the spring.
the spring strength isn't critical, so yup, a spring from a pinball relay will work fine. Ideally one from a trip relay. If you don't have one, pm me your address and I'll mail you something that'll work.
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I installed the armature plate and spring.
(https://i.imgur.com/QzyNH17.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/l3ix8uM.jpg)
Coins register when deposited, however the stepper unit does not advance, and multiple coins blow the fuse. A 5 amp was installed in the left, not sure if this is enough?
The lock pawl does not release after coins are accepted, but when manually moved, the game plays and pays out wins.
The handle release coin seems to be energized, and buzzes when pressed against.
Any thoughts on my next step? Clearly there are some issues in the stepper, but does this affect the initial handle release?
Thanks!
(https://i.imgur.com/lQhbyrl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kykuetl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PUkGOly.jpg)
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the fuse with the white/blue and black wires is 5A. The other two are 8A.
the stepper unit in your first post is the count unit. The odds unit is the other one. Both have at least one "open at zero" switch poking out over the ratchet near the step-up coil switch. The switch stack is operated by a white plastic peg sticking out of the white plastic ratchet.
in your pic, the count unit is reset and the peg is holding the switch open. Make sure the switch closes when the unit is stepped up once. If the switch is open, the reset coil won't fire because it doesn't need to.
on the odds unit, there's at least two switches on the "open at zero" stack that open when the odds unit is reset.
if unsure, post pics of the ratchet side of the odds unit at reset and step 1, and also the wiper side at reset.
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wrt the handle release, the circuit is below.
the yellow path is what you need active to trip the handle release. The only switch that should
be open in the circuit when the game is over is the coin relay switch.
the blue path shows how the coin relay gets powered to close the switch
the orange path thru the resistor is a precharge circuit that keeps the handle release coil partially powered so it trips quickly when the coin switch causes the coin relay to power. That may be why you feel the coil is active.
assuming the handle release coil is good, one of the switches along the yellow path is open or cruddy enough to stop the handle release coil from powering. A meter or a jumper wire will help find it.
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So the first coin works as should.
The second coin blows the fuse correct?
Drop the first coin as usual, manually step the 2nd coin.
Then normally insert the 3rd coin.
Post the results.
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I've not had success finding any broken wires or switches. Fuse is not blowing with any consistency.
I cleaned and lubed the white ratchets and the wiper sides.
As of now, coins register but reset coil does not release the handle, though I do think it is functioning. when I push on the armature, the coil vibrates and buzzes. I am considering replacing this coil just to be sure.
How can I use a jumper wire to help determine the problem? I have a voltage meter as well.
When coins are deposited, the only action in the upper unit is the odds coil moving the armature.
Multiple coins make the lights change from 1 -5, but only if the plunger is manually reset after games. otherwise, the stepper unit is stuck on 5 coins.
(https://i.imgur.com/rK0ya8P.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EnVLkPj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PqRfNoM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ey0Cw4r.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9qpBFZ4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Vo07KFf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/o8TNyNQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fhvTvfh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6GJpPNe.jpg)
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Here's a garage fix and something to check for and try that doesn't take any meters. I'm going to describe it in simple terms, so please don't take offense. On the handle release coil after a coin is deposited, I'm guessing the coil is not pulling up the metal plate that unlocks the handle? Does that flat metal plate next to the coil have a thin metal band around it? If it does, try this: after a credit has been given to the machine, lift up on that plate and see if it sticks to the coil. If it does, your coil is working. Put a small washer between the coil and it's mounting plate. This will reduce the gap between the coil and the metal plate. Try another credit and see if it works. Now, if the band is missing from that plate, replace that band.
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When the coin switch is depressed the the coin relay latch is tripped.
This sets up another circuit to the handle release.
It is activated when the coin switch returns back up.
So the first coin works, but the second doesn’t?
Take a good look at the Coin Relay Switch.
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Here's a garage fix and something to check for and try that doesn't take any meters. I'm going to describe it in simple terms, so please don't take offense. On the handle release coil after a coin is deposited, I'm guessing the coil is not pulling up the metal plate that unlocks the handle? Does that flat metal plate next to the coil have a thin metal band around it? If it does, try this: after a credit has been given to the machine, lift up on that plate and see if it sticks to the coil. If it does, your coil is working. Put a small washer between the coil and it's mounting plate. This will reduce the gap between the coil and the metal plate. Try another credit and see if it works. Now, if the band is missing from that plate, replace that band.
The coil does have a washer. The metal armature plate does not stick to the bottom of the coil after a coin is inserted, it buzzes and vibrates.
Not sue if this means it's not working, or is a symptom of a switch not tripping the coil properly?
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Since this was messed with prior.
Check the related switches to the handle release coil.
Possibly one or two are not opening or closing when they should.
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How can I use a jumper wire to help determine the problem? I have a voltage meter as well.
stick one end of a jumper on wire 30, other end on wire 83-1, 51-1 or 52-1. The handle release coil should power.
if you aren't familiar with the wire id's and colors, see old reno's "Use the bally color code" how-to guide in the sticky topics at the top of the forum listings.
wire 52-1 is the white/blue wire on the handle release coil, so jumping that to wire 30 is the most direct test of the coil. Convenient place to attach to yellow wire 30 is the coin switch or GI lamps.
also note the handle release armature that you just replaced does not need to stay up against the coil. Once the coil powers and the armature lifts out of the locking cam notch, the long metal arm flops down and the locking cam rotates enough that the armature is irrelevant. The handle can be pulled even with the game power off.
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wrt the odds unit not resetting, make sure the two switches circled in red are closed when the odds unit is not reset ... especially the switch that has a blade with a blue/red wire on it.
if you step up the odds unit at least once then push down the odds reset relay armature onto the coil top, the odds unit should reset.
if your relays lost their labels, the odds reset relay has orange and blue/red wires on the coil terminals.
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I think if you have a F-31-2100 handle release coil - at least that version of it - you do not use a washer between the coil and the frame.
if you have an E-184-224 coil then a brass washer was used.
the washer isn't for armature spacing, it was for reducing magnetism, and the F-31-2100 coil has it built-in (or the core pokes above the surface plastic of the coil enough to create a space and diminish the effect).
with your fat washer and the core poking up on the F-31-2100, your armature may be close enough to the coil when the handle lock is release to vibrate due to the small constant current in the coil that the resistor is providing.
or put another way, my 929 has a F-31-2100 coil and no washer. Works fine, so it's worth trying to see if your buzzing goes away. My machine has the washer on top directly beneath the screw ... handy if you put in a coil that needs the washer I guess, but I dunno who put the washer there.
there may have been coils with the same part number that originally needed the washer, but later versions of the coil didn't. That's true of some coils used in pinball machines ... many of which are the same as used in the slots.
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How can I use a jumper wire to help determine the problem? I have a voltage meter as well.
stick one end of a jumper on wire 30, other end on wire 83-1, 51-1 or 52-1. The handle release coil should power.
if you aren't familiar with the wire id's and colors, see old reno's "Use the bally color code" how-to guide in the sticky topics at the top of the forum listings.
wire 52-1 is the white/blue wire on the handle release coil, so jumping that to wire 30 is the most direct test of the coil. Convenient place to attach to yellow wire 30 is the coin switch or GI lamps.
also note the handle release armature that you just replaced does not need to stay up against the coil. Once the coil powers and the armature lifts out of the locking cam notch, the long metal arm flops down and the locking cam rotates enough that the armature is irrelevant. The handle can be pulled even with the game power off.
Using a jumper, the handle release coil works perfectly, and grabs the armature plate.
It's still not doing anything after a coin is deposited however. The only action is up top. The stepper unit will advance if the plunger is manually reset, and the odds coil clicks.
I did notice a blue spark near the beau plug when re-inserting the hopper. It seems to overpay, but otherwise is working well.
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The handle release switch stack is not in a very accessible area.
Thus making it hard to work on.
Assuming the handle releases on the first coin, but nothing happens after.
Best to check continuity on the lowest set of contacts when the release lever is down.
Also the A and C switch contacts should be checked.
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I think he means the handle release relay is still not powering when coining the game, but jumpering directly to the coil works, so the coil is good.
just to make sure ... both the coin relay on the lower left side of the reel mech and the handle release relay are trip relays. They briefly power to change the state of the switch stacks and release the handle, but they don't stay powered.
once you've pulled the handle and spun the reels, the coin relay and the handle release relay are physically reset and waiting for another power pulse to trip them again. That pulse comes from the coin switch - it trips the coin relay, and a switch on the coin relay in turn trips the handle release relay.
a way to find why the handle release isn't tripping is:
1] if necessary, spun reels so trip relays are reset
2] deposit a coin. Either watch the coin relay to see if it trips, or pull out the reel mech far enough to verify it did. If it didn't, stop. That's your problem.
3] if handle release didn't trip, turn off power and pull out the reel mech partway. Put a jumper wire from wire 30 to any point along the yellow path in the schematic above that's on the reel mech, put the reel mech back in and turn on the power. Wire 83-1 or 25-1 on the coin relay switches are a good place to start.
if the handle release trips, manually reset it and move the jumper wire "up" the circuit until you find the place where it stops working. That will be your problem spot. Note the schem does not show plug connections.
some things you need to know:
- reel mech A switches are on vertical stack on left side of the reel unit nearest the back
- reel mech C switches are vertical stack to the right of the A switches
- coin relay is below the A and C switches
- dashpot switch is on the right side of the reel mech near the back of the air cylinder
- payout relay is under the hopper
as david suggested, continuity can also be used, but you need to be a bit more careful with isolating the circuits to not be getting continuity thru some roundabout path thru other coils/lamps/transformer windings. In addition, continuity can be there but the circuit can't pass the needed current to power the coils due to high resistances, so measuring resistance on ohms is better than a go/no-go continuity test.
in this case, if you could yank the reel mech and use the ohmeter function on your meter, put one probe on wire 57-1 on the reel beau plugs and the other probe plug wire 83-1. With the coin relay reset you should get infinite ohms, and with the coin relay tripped almost zero ohms.
the plug chart on the schematic will help locate those two wires.
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If coin one doesn’t register, jump the coin in switch on both sides.
Off hand can remember which terminal unlatches the coin relay.
Of course the opposite terminal should activate the handle release.
If nothing happens first coin, the next logical switch is the coin relay.
This is the first set of switches that sets the machine up to play.
Also check switches A and C, particularly the closed contacts for continuity.
It doesn’t happen often, but a closed switch will loose continuity.
This could be from dirt, grease, debris etc.
Especially the horizontal switches.
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The handle release relay appears to be working. I know the coil is good, and I see the black post attached to the metal arm click forward when a coin is inserted.
(https://i.imgur.com/IMmALbZ.jpg)
I looked over the jumper description in the sticky, but am still confused on how to attach? diagnose a bad or gunked switch.
For instance these reel mech switches:
(https://i.imgur.com/hhlA64t.jpg)
Is this the correct positioning for the jumper?
Do I manually manipulate the switches?
What about switches with multiple wires like this?
(https://i.imgur.com/vLU9dP7.jpg)
I apologize in advance for my ignorance...
Thanks for all the help!
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Let’s refresh the situation.
Please describe what happens when the first coin is inserted. Does the handle release?
Then the second coin, if anything happens.
Can you play the machine for a few minutes if you just play one coin at a time?
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david's got a good idea to back up a little - you're doing fine, but david and I have been kinda talking about different issues. I want to make sure your handle release relay is tripping to release the handle, and david has been talking about what happens after the handle release relay trips.
If your handle release has been working when the first coin is deposited, you can ignore most of my posts and the below.
fwiw to hopefully help ya understand what the jumper is doing:
- your first picture in post 20 is the coin relay and it's tripped. If you saw the black roller move forward when playing the first coin, that's good.
- your second pic is the reel mech B switch and you've got one end of your jumper on yellow wire 30. You kinda want the alligator teeth on the lug a little more so there's little chance of the thing shorting to another lug if their clear plastic sleeves are pulled back or missing, but you've got the right idea.
- your third pic is a nice closeup of the coin switch. The blue wire with the white tracer is wire 25-1. Pull back the clear sleeve and attach the other end of the jumper there. Stick the mech back in the game with the coin relay in the tripped position and see if the handle release relay trips. The other half of the switch with wire 25-1 has black/yellow wire 83-1 on it. You can jumper 30 to that and see what happens.
if jumpering to 83-1 trips the handle release, but jumpering to 25-1 doesn't, then the switch is not closing well when the coin relay trips.
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Wolftalk, its time for a reset/update.
Need to clear the mind and start fresh on exactly the present situation.
Knowing if the machine will play one coin at a time will give some direction.
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One coin moves the coin relay post, and the odds unit clicks up top. Nothing else.
Still chasing the main problem- the handle release switch does not engage though the coil is definitely good.
Sorry I misspoke in my last post, the coin relay appears to move when coin deposited as demonstrated in the photograph, not the handle release.
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I updated post 22 for the right wires to jumper to on a 809-ZZB....sorry about that.
first thing tho is look at the blue/white wire 25-1 and black/yellow wire 83-1 next to the coil on the coin relay. Could just be the camera angle, but the blue/white wire looks like it's just shoved into the clear insulator sleeve with the black/yellow wire.
did 25-1 break off the switch blade and someone just stuck it against the 83-1 wire, but now it's pulled out enough to not make contact? Grab wire 25-1 and pull.
in any case, 83-1 and 25-1 should be the wires on the two switch blades nearest the coil, and when the coin relay trips, those blades should connect 83-1 and 25-1 together and the handle release relay should trip.
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1st coin the coin relay latch trips, but the handle release doesn’t.
Check for continuity on the top contacts. White/blue wire.
To make it somewhat easier connect one side of the meter to the coil white/blue solder joint.
Then probe the associated contacts at the solder joint or on the blade in the stack.
This method will give a more accurate reading than applying pressure near the accrual contact.
If no continuity is found then track the wire back through the beau-plug,
there could be a bad connection at the plug.
Easy option, applying pressure on the top of said contacts with a wood dowel rod, then depressing the coin in switch wire might cause the handle to release.
Try this first, it may save a lot of time.
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Not sure if this is what you meant,
But after deposit of coin, I pushed on the top contact with the arrow-
Handle release engaged and game played normally.
(https://imgur.com/gallery/W5u9kU7)
https://imgur.com/gallery/W5u9kU7 (https://imgur.com/gallery/W5u9kU7)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fgallery%2FW5u9kU7&hash=28836a8fc1c72a8ddbcf8a539f40e3bf3ba3a4d3)
So clean contacts, check connection of beau plug for this wire?
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Okay, making forward progress for now.
Nice clean well lit photos helped a lot.
Yes, you preformed the procedure as prescribed.
So, does the machine work as intended?
Taking coins and releasing the handle etc?
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So clean contacts, check connection of beau plug for this wire?
clean the contacts and adjust the switch your arrow is pointing at.
are you familiar with how the switch needs to be adjusted? You're going to need to change the position of both the bottom and top contact blades (and the thick blades beneath them) to make the switch work right.
youtube videos like this may help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK5eg4R7qLY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK5eg4R7qLY)
in the pic below with arrows added, you need to bend the thick blade down where the purple arrow is to make a gap between the contact blade and the thick blade. Currently those two blades are touching at the right end, so the contact blade cannot move down when the handle relay trips.
I modified the picture to show what it should look like. Your original pic is also below ... it's the one without the green and purple arrows.
when the handle relay is tripped, the space at the green arrow should disappear - the top blade with the contact should be resting against the thick blade beneath it. Bend and straighten the top blade where it enters the stack to make that happen.
in other words, when the relay is tripped, the top switch needs to be OPEN. Right now it looks like it will stay closed, and that will keep the coil powered and fighting the spring trying to pull the armature plate up. It may hum, buzz or rattle, the switch may arc, and the coil may get too hot.
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Contact adjustments.
Contact blades and limiter bars should be perfectly horizontal when at rest.
The armature will dictate when and which contacts will be closed and or open.
Depending on the position of the armature.
Best to clean and adjust suspected contacts first, rather than cleaning and adjusting the whole stack.
This method will keep the problem contained to said contacts in question.
The top contacts in this case, controls the release coil as one side of the coil is wired directly to the coil.
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I made a small adjustment to the blade mentioned by wolf.
Coin insert now releases the handle & game plays....
However, it is not paying. Perhaps I adjusted it too much?
Was very pleased to have the handle finally work. Getting close I think
(https://i.imgur.com/7YQw9Ai.jpg)
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Not likely that the handle release is preventing payouts.
There’s a switch stack on the back of the hopper top left.
Its the payout relay switch, this and or the payout step up unit needs some attention.
Post photos of both, maybe something obvious.
Glad to hear the handle is working.
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It is strange that the payout stopped as soon as the handle was adjusted. It was paying (overpaying) fine when I manually release the handle before.
Here are some photos of the hopper stack.
(https://i.imgur.com/2HalVhz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tPhqxHL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MgfPeO5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OPgvejG.jpg)
I can get some photos of the stepper unit later. It is advancing and resetting properly now that the handle release is working.
I did bend two of the beau plugs when replacing the reel mech, but bent them back and they seem ok.
(https://i.imgur.com/qZCOEdF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eQxWo3O.jpg)
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the middle switch on the handle release relay - with grey wire 90 and brown/yellow wire 63-3 - is in the payout circuit.
you can do david's wiggle-it-with-a-stick test or use a meter/jumper wire to test it. Do you have an ohmeter?
how did you clean the switch contacts?
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I used a q tip with alcohol to clean contacts. Initially, moving the wide blade had no effect. Slightly bending top fin down slightly was what made handle release start to function.
I do have an ohmeter, and a wooden stick.
How would I use either to figure out the issue with the brown/ yellow wire. since that was the piece that I originally bent, seems to make sense that it is somehow over-adjusted or out of place.
(https://i.imgur.com/qovvkMJ.jpeg)
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stick the ohmeter probes on wire 90 and 63-3. You should see almost zero ohms when the switch is closed. If you do, wiggle the switch a little without intentionally opening the contacts and make sure you keep seeing zero ohms.
if wiggling the switch makes the reading bounce around, the switch needs adjusting.
good switch adjustment requires "overtravel" of the blades after the contacts touch. In this case:
- when the handle relay is tripped, the top blade with 83-3 should be laying flat on the thick limiting blade beneath it and the roller should be holding the lower blade with wire 90 down to create a gap between the contacts
- when the handle relay is reset, the lower blade should push the upper one off the thick blade like your picture shows.
so when the contacts touched to close the switch, BOTH blades kept moving up a little. That overtravel causes the contact surfaces to slide across each other, making a good mechanical self-cleaning connection. A rule of thumb is try to have at least 1/3 of the switch blade movement happen after the contacts touch. Not always possible, especially when nothing is pushing the blade like in this case. It's only the tension of the lower blade that will lift the upper blade - if both blades are are the same material and thickness, the upper would barely move after the contacts touch .. but you should see a little flex in it.
the usual problem is the contacts are barely touching and the switch is unreliable, which is what you found on the handle release. Bending the top switch down created overtravel and pressure on the contact faces.
the main problem with using an ohmeter (or continuity) is making sure the only path between the two probes is the circuit you want to check.
in this case, if you used the ohmeter on the two wires when all the units are in the game, there may be a circuit path thru the transformer and reels that is closed. Depends on what symbols are on the reels. If using an ohmeter, you'd see at least a few ohms so you'd know the switch had an issue (since it should be zero). If using a test light/buzzer, it can't tell the difference between a few ohms and zero ohms, so you'd get a false result.
a sanity check is to open the switch and make sure you see infinite ohms or no continuity, then close the switch and see what you get.
if you understand the schematic well enough, you can see what you need to do to isolate a circuit - put paper between switch contacts, remove units from the machine, etc. to make sure you don't have multiple paths between the probes. That lets you do stuff like sticking a probe on a coin switch terminal and the other probe on a payout relay terminal and see if you have a closed circuit when the reels are on a winner.
it's often easier and more reliable to measure voltage or use a jumper wire tho, and when measuring voltage you ideally want the circuit to be closed so current is flowing. It is possible for a connection to measure almost zero ohms but still not work. The meter sends a tiny current thru the connection, but in game operation a much larger current needs to flow and the connection can't handle it and the circuit doesn't work.
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Right Wolftalk,
Most likely the 90 solid gray wire contacts are out of adjustment.
This circuit makes its way to the wiper boards.
No contact the machine will not pay.
If there’s a stationary limit bar, it might be holding the contact up and apart.
Manually lift up the top contact blade the bottom should follow for a short distance.
If the bottom blade stays stationary, adjust the blades accordingly.
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I’ve not had any success manipulating the great wire blade. Tried a couple different movements. Nothing, even with clear winners on the reel.
I did notice that the winner paid light stays on?
Here is the current layout of the fins.(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fgallery%2FOMklTRP&hash=848e01571f2ee09b8645004c318d6aadc655536b)
https://i.imgur.com/aEbxg0o.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/aEbxg0o.jpg)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaEbxg0o.jpg&hash=a7ccb8c48fdc38b7f62f52f71aaca59a2c789081)
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I’ve not had any success manipulating the gray wire blade. Tried a couple different movements. Nothing, even with clear winners on the reel.
I did notice that the winner paid light stays on?
Here is the current layout of the fins.(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fgallery%2FOMklTRP&hash=848e01571f2ee09b8645004c318d6aadc655536b)
https://i.imgur.com/aEbxg0o.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/aEbxg0o.jpg)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaEbxg0o.jpg&hash=a7ccb8c48fdc38b7f62f52f71aaca59a2c789081)
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Winner paid light I believe is controlled by the payout step up unit.
Possibly it did not reset. This could be the reason its not paying
Check the turquoise spiral cam to see if it returned back.
The cam should reset automatically on the first coin after a payout..
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Sorry for the miss information
I was looking at the back side of the door. It was the play 5 coins add ligh, not winner paid.
I’ll mess with the contacts again tomorrow.
I really appreciate all the great help y’all have provided! Gotta be getting pretty close to fixed... for now anyway.
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the middle switch on the handle release relay isn't the only switch in the circuit. If you want, just jumper the 90 wire to the 63-3 wire and see what happens.
wire 63-3 comes from the coin replay on the left side of the reel unit, so also looks at 63-3 and 60-1 on that relay.
63-3 is a brown/yellow wire and 60-1 is solid brown. Looks like in your pic on post 20 those wires are on the two blades furthest from the coil
your payout counter in post 33 is reset, so it should look like that whenever you didn't have a win...the position of the spiral and the switch being lifted open.
if you have an meter that measures resistance or a continuity tester, you can with game power off:
0] set up any winner on the reels
1] pull out the reel mech
2] manually trip the coin relay or stick paper between the contacts so 60-1 is not connected to 63-3
3] clip a meter probe to wire 63-3
4] push the reel mech back in
5] pull out hopper and connect other meter probe to grey/yellow wire 93 on the payout relay coil.
6] push hopper back in
you should get almost zero ohms on the meter. If you don't, move the probe from wire 63-3 on the coin switch to 63-3 on the handle release coil. If still nothing, move the probe to wire 90 on the handle release coil.
what you are doing
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if you look at the schematic around H10, wire 63-3 comes from the coin relay switch and thru the handle release switch onto wire 90, and from there the circuit goes into the reel wiper boards. If the reels stop at positions that are winners, wire 90 connects to the appropriate numbered trace on the payout disc, and from there the circuit follows wire 93 to power the payout relay.
when the payout relay powers, the hopper turns on. On your machine, as each coin is ejected the payout counter mechanically steps up and rotates the payout wipers. When the payout wipers step off the end of the payout trace associated with the winner, the payout relay loses power, the hopper is turned off, and payout is done.
the ideal way to probe the circuit is game power on and an unpaid winner on the reels. Put one meter probe on wire 70 on any handy 50V coil, use the other probe anywhere along the circuit path from wire 63-3 to 93 and look for where the 50V drops significantly or disappears.
the hard part is getting the probe onto the places you want to check. Without extension cables to run the reels or hopper outside the cabinet, you have to keep pulling out units, clipping on the probe, and pushing them back in without shorting the probe to anything.
on your game, you can turn the power off, place the probes, and turn it back on to have it keep doing what is was doing.
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I followed all of these steps until connecting 93 to 63-3. I tested the wires for ohms- nothing, then accidentally connected the wires... Jackpot bell rang and coins poured onto the floor.
After disconnecting the leads, and collecting quarters off my garage floor, the machine is finally paying! It's actually overpaying by a ton, and pretty much empty's the hopper and causes the reset every time even a small prize is won.
So I have no idea what actually fixed the problem, but I'm sure glad it's playable. I guess fixing the payback is the next order of business.
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Continuity could of been re-established while testing and or adjusting.
Also possible the machine need to complete a cycle to start working properly.
Nice that it’s at a point where it plays.
Makes it a lot easier to correct any other problems.
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it sounds like you may have an issue with a flaky plug connection. Sometimes wiggling the reel unit or the hopper unit will make the connection work, and that'll confirm there's a plug issue.
david, what's the easiest way to clean the plugs?
when you have an electrically stepped payout counter like yours, a runaway payout where it empties the hopper or pays until the safety circuit stops the pay is usually caused by the payout counter not stepping up.
if you aren't sure how the payout counter works, pull the hopper after a coin dump and post a picture of the entire payout counter. The span of wipers that are around 6:00 at reset should have rotated counter-clockwise.
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Turns out it was counter switch located on top of the hopper. Cleaned the connections, and it’s now paying correctly.
Thank you Wolf and David for your kindness and help with getting this thing going. I think it’s all set now (until my kids put pennies in it).
Thanks again :thank_you:
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Okay, great!
Pivot arm switches, they take a beating.