New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: v-drive on August 23, 2014, 03:54:35 PM
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What's up everyone!? Just picked up my first machine, well two of them. One IGT that I got working perfectly and the other is a Bally 1090 silver dollar Made in 1975 I believe.
When I insert a silver dollar into the Bally 1090 the bell rings and the coins hit the hopper. When I do win nothing pays out. no noise, no movement nothing.
I am curious to know what I need to check on or do in order to fix this problem? All fuses are good, there is $20 in silver dollar coins in the unit and there is no tilt light that appears to come on. I have attached pictures for your viewing pleasure. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
- Nick
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Hello Nick and :NLG_WELCOME:
First thing I would look at with your machine is the payout unit shown in your pic #4.. It the piece in the lower right rear corner of your machine. It has a set of contact on the front side. The spiral cam has a rubber stop bumper that gets sticky. When this happens those contacts will not open, causing the machine not to payout.. That rubber bumper can be replace with a pencil eraser. You can remove the payout unit by removing a couple screws and two white plugs. I would mark one plug with a marker. Once remover you can advance the payout solenoid and see if the zero switch contact open. Then just press the second solenoid and the spiral cam should spin back to the zero starting position. Hopefully this will help. If not let me know and we can check a few other things.
If you find my information helpful, please make a small donation to NLG and become a member of our family.
Gary
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Ripped that white bumper out, replaced with new eraser tip and still no luck....contact should be apart when set against stopper right?
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Ripped that white bumper out, replaced with new eraser tip and still no luck....contact should be apart when set against stopper right?
Just the opposite.. The two contacts are closed when the spiral cam is in the return position. Those should open as soon as the spiral cam is advanced. Your wiper contacts should be in the 6 o'clock position at zero. It is possible that your dash pot contacts, (located on the right side of the reels) at the far end of the air cylinder are not closed. If your handle is stiff, you might want to remove the white air cylinder, remove it and clean the old rubber seal out of it. Just use a light weight grease inside for the piston. Don't use a lot of grease or you will have a mess. Just a very, very light coating.. The dash pot contact need to be closed before the handles pulled.. Some of the other common problems are dirty or tarnished plug contact on the back of the reels that plug into the cabinet..
Gary
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Is it possible that the dash pot contacts are gone?
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I don't see any sign of dash pot contacts.. I have seen some machines without them. One other thing you could check is the relay contacts on the hopper just above the plug. I like to check there operation of the contacts with my voltage meter set to ohm's.. That is the jackpot relay.
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Interesting...now once that spiral cam is advance, should the contacts remain open or just open and close once it is activated. I notice when I advance it manually, the points open very quick but close as i continue to advance it....pretty cool to really tear into a machine like this and see how it all works!
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Interesting...now once that spiral cam is advance, should the contacts remain open or just open and close once it is activated. I notice when I advance it manually, the points open very quick but close as i continue to advance it....pretty cool to really tear into a machine like this and see how it all works!
That single contact (zero) switch is only to be closed when the spiral cam returns back to zero. Once the spiral cam is advanced at all, those contacts should open and stay that way till the next plays starts. If you advance the spiral cam, you can coin up the machine and pull the handle. You should see it rewind back to zero starting position as the reels spin. It's very important to have that contact opening and closing, or you will not get a paid jackpot.
Gary
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It was my understanding that the zero switch would be open when the spiral cam returns to zero and that it would close when the spiral cam moves during a payout. At least that is how it works for 5 and 25 cent machines. Is it different for dollar machines? :Scratch-Head:
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It was my understanding that the zero switch would be open when the spiral cam returns to zero and that it would close when the spiral cam moves during a payout. At least that is how it works for 5 and 25 cent machines. Is it different for dollar machines? :Scratch-Head:
Your right.. My bad :fryingpan: open when returned to zero and close as it advances.. Need to get my laptop fix, doing this on my phones a pain.. :hissyfit:
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Lol. Ok, I got it now! Adjusted evrtything the way it should be. Put it all back together, plugged it in, threw 3 silver dollars in and hit two Cherries. Machine went off like crazy with the bell ringing and all. Only thing was is that the hopper didnt pay out any coins. Had to pull the hopper out which shut off the bell and now that everything is back together it won't do anything when I win again......
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Sounds to me that the payout relay switches are not making good contact. Is the wiper arm, which glides over the payout board on the hopper, moving when a win is hit?
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Lol. Ok, I got it now! Adjusted evrtything the way it should be. Put it all back together, plugged it in, threw 3 silver dollars in and hit two Cherries. Machine went off like crazy with the bell ringing and all. Only thing was is that the hopper didnt pay out any coins. Had to pull the hopper out which shut off the bell and now that everything is back together it won't do anything when I win again......
Have you checked to see if your hopper isn't jammed up? Can you turn it by hand? Does it have a fuse under the hopper? You can bench test a hopper be attaching wires dirrectly to the motor.. I have a test cord with clip so I can test hoppers. They do run on 120V.. I just run them for a few seconds on my table, never test one while its still inside the machine.. I have seen motors and gearboxes dried out. There are a couple oil holes that you can put a few drops of oil on the felt pads. Also check the hoppers brake located on the motor to make sure it's working..
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Motor is freed up. No fuse on the bottom hopper. Cherries make the winning bell go off but still no hopper action or payout. Now when I insert a coin it does nothing to even indicate that a coin was inserted into thenmachine. Think im missing something here...
Btw, where can we make donations?
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The donations are made thru PayPal. There should be a link on the bottom on the home page, and others. Sounds like your going to have to back up and start from the beginning. Make sure your coin switch on the left side of the reels work. I check them with my meter on ohms. Check the hoppers relays too. Look at the cabinets beau plugs that your reels plug into and make sure none of the connectors came loose and are clean. You also have all the contacts on the handle. I had one machine that I found a broken wire in the molex plug by the handle. The reels air cylinder linkage was pushing on the plug for so long the wire broke. So it's time to step back and start checking all connections, relays and plugs.
Gary
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Fixed everything. Lights work, bells work etc. Winning combos still not paying and hopper isn't working. I can however manually lift the coin counter thing on the hopper and once it reached it max payout it shuts off. So the correct payout is working. I found these wires wrapped up under electrical tape and upon taking it off this loose wire appeared. Any ideas as to where this wire goes? It is yellow with blue stripe.
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Picture would help
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[dot][/[/b]dot]
Lol. Ok, I got it now! Adjusted evrtything the way it should be. Put it all back together, plugged it in, threw 3 silver dollars in and hit two Cherries. Machine went off like crazy with the bell ringing and all. Only thing was is that the hopper didnt pay out any coins. Had to pull the hopper out which shut off the bell and now that everything is back together it won't do anything when I win again......
Have you checked to see if your hopper isn't jammed up? Can you turn it by hand? Does it have a fuse under the hopper? You can bench test a hopper be attaching wires dirrectly to the motor.. I have a test cord with clip so I can test hoppers. They do run on 120V.. I just run them for a few seconds on my table, never test one while its still inside the machine.. I have seen motors and gearboxes dried out. There are a couple oil holes that you can put a few drops of oil on the felt pads. Also check the hoppers brake located on the motor to make sure it's working..
Did you ever bench test your hoppers motor as I suggested above in the above post? If it run there then your problem is in the machine? It could just be dirty jackpot relay or the hopper to cabinet plug..
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it can only reach so far.. I would check that lower relay to see if you can see where it broke off.. Slide off the plastic insulator to check the connection. I would see how the wire is formed and how it lines up to the other solder connections.
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This wire is cut clean. Pulled all plastic insulators and all have clean solder marks.
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It looks broken to me.. If it were cut it wouldn't have a couple single strands of wire sticking out of the end? I don't know what else to tell yea..
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Any way of getting a picture of another 1090 coin hopper? Maybe wiring diagram?
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The wire you show (the "what was white at some point but is CREAM/YELLOW) with the blue stripe is NOT a clean cut....blow up your pic and you will see it (little frayed strands). It comes from the silver junction directly to the left in the pic (above that cap) with the other 2 cream/blue wires. You can even see the broken solder joint (thanks to your AWESOME pic).
Easiest way to find where a wire DID go: Without forcing it, move the wire around a bit. Let it tell you where it is comfortable....and has been comfortable for years! :yes: Wires have great memories, and will tell you, through the means of least resistance, where they've been hanging for the last several years.
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Easiest way to find where a wire DID go: Without forcing it, move the wire around a bit. Let it tell you where it is comfortable....and has been comfortable for years! :yes: Wires have great memories, and will tell you, through the means of least resistance, where they've been hanging for the last several years.
That what it was trying to explain. It will only reach so far, usually right too the break..
:agreepost:
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You can silence the bell by putting a folded piece of paper under the clapper. I used to use a book of matches, as they fit real nice. Nothing more annoying than a LOUD BELL!!!
Try setting up an oranges pay or other higher pay and see if you notice the hopper pinwheel turning...
Also note that you can remove the screw(s) holding your payboard in place, and pull it out so that you can see what is going on during a pay attempt. The wires should be long enough for that. Just make sure you don't short anything on it to case, and you should be safe.... Try pulling on your carriage while the pay is supposed to be happening, and see if that starts the hopper moving. The carriage is that horseshoe shaped thingy...
I guess I will have to open my copy of the Bally Manual and give you a page number...unless anyone already has it handy???
I suspect you have a payboard problem, possibly the spiral wiper fingers are not contacting the payboard well.
Sounds like a fun problem.
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OK, now I've read more of the posts, it sounds like when you lift the coin out roller during a pay, that the payboard is pulsed, and that it also steps up. This is good. So, sounds like the problem is that you are not getting power to the hopper motor.
The picture of the broken 52 wire rings a bell (bad pun) but I don't recall off hand where it goes. It may be part of your 120V system to the hopper motor. What are the colors of the wires on your motor?
Also, during this pay, see if you can see if the payout relay is pulled down (turns on) when all this is going on. If it is, then that even more points to the hopper motor missing part of its 120V.
Note, you might be able to pull down on one of the reels during a pay, and if that makes the bell quit ringing, that should also make the payout relay turn on and off. An easy way to see if it is pulling in.... Hope that makes sense.
I think a 52 wire is def part of 120v to hopper motor........
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If you look at the switch bank, you will see the same color code on 2 other wires, my bet would be that that wire goes in there. Pull the insulater back and see if it looks like it pulled off of there.
Dave F
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Back of the hopper motor. White and blue wires are attached. Should there be another wire (s) connected to the other terminal on the top of the motor?
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Then that wire must belong to the jackpot relay, where those wires were the same color.
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It comes from the silver junction directly to the left in the pic (above that cap) with the other 2 cream/blue wires. You can even see the broken solder joint (thanks to your AWESOME pic).
Obviously, from my quote above, :I_agree_1: . The wire belongs in the same joint as the other 2 of the same color.
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Just those 2 wires on the motor.
Dave F
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when you attempt to troubleshoot one of these machines listening to what happens and when it happens will tell you a lot about what the machine is doing or isn't doing!. The fact that the machine will not establish a credit and the hopper not turning on points to the payout relay on the back of the hopper as a potential suspect. one side of the payout relay coil has 50vac applied to it at all times. the other side, is what controls the payout relay coil turning on through a series of switches. the other half of the 50vac circuit travels through the reels, onto the payout disc, and finally to the payout relay coil. it is this action that should close the payout relay contacts, thus starting the motor. the green and white wires on switch section #1 perform this action. I have seen the plastic melt and form a groove where as even though the relay will close the white section that moves cannot move far enough to allow the contacts to close. Your contacts appear to be alright?? can't see because of the red/ blue wire.
on your coin acceptance problem, the coin switch relay (on the left side of the reel mech) it will close on the downward stroke of the coin switch,(you can see it and hear it when it happens, and if the coin accept lamp is good and that circuit is good you should see the lamp come on) on the upward stroke of the coin in switch, you should hear and see the handle relay switch latch. this should set the machine in the coined mode. there is a set of contacts on the payout relay that would prevent the last action from occurring. So both of the problems you are having could be caused by the same relay switch.
Hope this helps
Jim
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Damn, I just lost a whole long post. Rats!
However, Jim is absolutely right. 1st coin in downstroke releases the coin relay which turns on the coin accepted light, and importantly closes a normally open switch on the coin relay stack which goes to the handle release coil. Upstroke then puts voltage through that switch and pulses the handle release coil through a normally closed switch on the handle release switch stack itself. When the handle paddle releases, this kills power to the hr coil, otherwise it would stay on and burn up. It's a safety circuit.
This circuitry is shown in your bally manual, and if anyone wants to further discuss it, I am up to that....
Most every Bally is wired this way, regardless of the type or model.
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100% ... dont try to fix it if it aint broke .. or .. dont break it if its working fine
ME ...
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First thing first....Thank you! I can't believe the amount of help on this site. Everything that everyone has said in their posts I have used and applied.
For a young guy not knowing the workings of an older style slot machine I have taken out, cleaned, fixed, soldered, replaced and put back together a retired non working slot machine. It now accepts my coins (1-3). The bell rings. The hopper now works and pays out correctly and even the time out mech works when the hopper runs out of silver dollars.
There are only 2 more questions and or concerns and I believe this machine will be fully operational.
First is the reset of the payout mech. When a winner is paid a new coin inserted is supposed to reset this. it does not and I have to manually pushed the plunger to reset in order to get paid on a new win. Picture is attached.
The second is on the handle/pull lever. from the picture you can see where the previous owner hooked up a spring in order for this machine to be used. is there in fact a spring that is needed for this and if so where does it hook up to?
Guys, once again I truly appreciate all of the help and insight into my particular issues with this machine. Is it unusual that I am now searching for cheap and non working slot machines to work on and repair? Just a little addicting! Donation is on its way! :thank_you:
- Nick
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That spring does not belong there.. That lever behind is attached to a solenoid. When a coin is inserted that solenoid fires and unlocks that lever. It should fall down locking out the one with the spring on it. Once the handle is pulled, a rod comes up out of the hole one the top of the gearbox, and that then lifts the fallen lever back up into it latched position until the next coin it inserted. The way that spring is attached, it should allow you to pull the handle without inserting a coin.
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Thats the new style "FREE PLAY" spring
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inserting a coin will only reset the odds unit, it gets the machine ready to count the proper amount of coins inserted.
the "B" switch is the switch that will reset the payout counter. It is located on the left side of the reel mech. center of the side wall, and the switch is mounted horizontally. after a credit is established, and you pull the handle, the reels being "kicked" off will close this switch for a small amount of time, when the contacts make on this switch it will fire the payout reset coil and thereby reset the payout counter.
with the reel mech out of the unit, you can get the reels kicked off by pushing the plunger, and watch and see what that switch is doing, better yet, put a meter on it and you will see if the switch makes contact. if this works, then you have a open wire going down to the hopper plug, or the coil is open, in any case that's how the payout counter is reset.
Hope this helps
Jim
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There are only 2 switches in the payout counter reset circuit.
One is the 'B' switch which is normally open, and does not close until the next game is started and the handle is physically pulled.
The other is the payout counter reset switch or '0' (zero) switch. It closes ONLY after the payboard has stepped at least one step. It is normally open also.
If the zero switch is closed all the time, then the hopper will reset on every handle pull even if it doesn't need to. It may wear out the reset coil eventually, but the machine will still operate. If it is open all the time, you will eventually get short pays or no pays since the payboard is unable to reset after a payout.
If the 'B' switch never closes, you will have the same exact symptoms as if the zero switch never closed.
If the 'B' switch is always closed, you will have a hopper runaway on every pay.
Try adjusing your switches these ways to see what I mean, or you can follow out the circuit I think on your free downloaded bally manual.
When in doubt on pays, always pull out the hopper and look at where the payboard fingers are.
Also note that if the payboard does not reset, then your winner paid light will stay on.
Jim gave a good explanation, but I will add that to check the action of your B switch, all you need to do is push back on the variator bar and you can see the B switch work. The variator is the black bar with the gear wheel just above the clock assembly on the left side of your reels. It times the clock assembly and introduces randomness into the reel spin. If my free downloaded Bally manual was open, I would give you page # and part # but it isn't.