New Life Games LLC
Progressive Controllers and Displays => Other Progressive Systems => Topic started by: morspeed on October 03, 2016, 02:45:20 PM
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Looking for people that have information on WAP progressive and CCom programing. Are the boards programed with software on a PC? Would like to understand as much as possible. Yes I know 777sizler but he seems to be a little cryptic when it comes to discussing this like the Feds are gonna come get him if he releases any information about it. :rotfl: Or maybe he just doesn't want anybody else to know how to use it. I would like to understand it as much as possible. There has to be a way to duplicate the signal the machines are looking for and fool them into thinking they are there. An emulator of sorts. Some how people were able to emulate servers to fool the machines into excepting tickets but nobody has even looked into this? I don't buy it. There are tons of great games that could be played if it was possible to emulate the wap.
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Well, That was not needed. I will contact you. :money:
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HA HA B, I have got to give you some crap. :Tongue_Out: I know you are always willing to help me. I just thought there must be others as well that know about these mystical and all mighty C-Com boards. But maybe there isn't.
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I'd be interested in this also. Even more so I'd like to learn about the communication with Bally MasterCom for player tracking. I also wonder if it's possible to communicate directly with the player tracking panel and bypass the MasterCom entirely.
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The biggest problem face as home consumers is that we only have the terminal side of the communications.
As machines are replaced the servers that the casino use tend to remain in place or get upgraded.
It would be extremely rare for a CMS (Casino Management System) to become available. Figure for every 700 slots there are only 1 server system.
These software packages are very expensive so the software developers do things like use hardware dongles to protect their software from being copied and they use custom communication boards not usually found in tiger direct / best buy. So even if you were to get a used system it would probably not function due to the missing dongle or if it did you likely would not be privy to all the passwords etc. As they also have player tracking systems there would be players personal data so it is more likely the machines would get destroyed than sold off. At least I hope so as my name and personal details is probably in most of them.
My understanding is that the slots and Bill Validators use SAS (Slot Accounting System) as a protocol to speak to the server.
This captures coin in / coin out and other stats you get from the statistics page of the slots. This saves the casino countless hours of checking the meters on each slot so they can report to the regulating body.
When you cash out (via TITO) a ticket printing event is managed by the SLOT but the amount paid out is recorded in the server database. This is why when we buy coinless machines the ticket out still works but ticket in doesn't.
For a ticket in event - TITO basically fails a bill validation request then sends a validation request via SAS. The server says valid and pushes the credits back via SAS to the slot. The ticket is then de-validated in the server database. If you follow the home brew TITO thread they have created a board that basically says the printed ticket is valid.
Mastercom and other player tracking systems are only loosely tied to the slot. When you insert your player tracking card it matches up the mastercom id with the slot id in the CMS. Coin in basically is translated to points and written to your account. I am not sure if the communication to / from the playertracking system is SAS or something more proprietary. I think SAS is licensed to the slot world so if you could avoid paying this license fee (as Mastercom) they may choose to do this.
From a communications medium I believe they are using serial data (RS485) vs Ethernet. RS422 is another possibility but less likely.
RS485 is a multidrop communication system used in industrial applications, can run over very long distances and is good in electrical noisy conditions. In contrast Ethernet over UTP (unshielded twisted pair) is a point to point communication system and would require each slot to have its own run back to a central station. Your limited to 300ft (100m) and are very particular to electrical noise. We do know these bundles of wires just don't exist.
I do know that there are some out there that have a SAS manual - but its not something posted to the NLG site due to its restricted / licensed nature.
I know this doesn't have a lot of specifics - and I have none to offer but this is the fundamental overview. Hope it helps
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If I can add to some of what you wrote:
Yes, accounting systems are extremely expensive, and they don't just control slot machines, they also can tie into hotel rooms, privileged parking areas, free slot play, etc. They are far more than just capturing meters. The hardware is proprietary for a reason: It is in essence a secure banking system. Can't have anybody hacking into one and turning themselves into a high-stakes player overnight and enjoying all the freebees.
You're partially correct as far as SAS. But SAS only communicates with the machine. The BV only communicates with the slot machine, and the machine passes on that info to the system when appropriate. For bills, it's just a meter increment. For tickets, it sends the ticket info to a separate TITO server via the system. Depending on what validation method is used, you could print a ticket without a server. Our casino uses system validation (as opposed to secure enhanced, for example), so ticket creation and redemption requires communication with the TITO server. If communication were interrupted, the machine would go into an attendant hand pay when cashed out.
BV's from the WBA series onward can independently recognize a ticket or a bill internally. There is no "fail a bill, check a ticket" process. Other than that, you're correct.
Mastercomms, NT setups, sentinels, etc all communicate with the slot machine via serial comms. Some are straight up RS-232 (WMS is a good example) and others are proprietary (SPC board anyone?). But otherwise they are all serial comms. Most of the newer games are trying to go with a standardaized communication protocol (RS-232) since that would be a cost saving measure. Just not aristocrat. Dunno why they gotta be special. Anyway, the player tracking as you say sends meter data and ticket requests, but also machine tilts (this includes door open signals), jackpots, change lights, electronic fund transfers, and we can disable machines either via the player tracking at the game or via the system. There's more but you get the idea.
Mastercomm itself isn't a player tracking system, it's just the hardware that's installed in the game by the casino; they are used for Bally SDS (which is a system). NT setups use ACSC (also bally). Sentinels are Aristocrat's Oasis. I forget what IGT's setup is called (Advantage, I think?). I've used SDS and currently ACSC, and between the two I think I prefer SDS. ACSC is nice with all the marketing features and the iview displays, but each time Bally wants to do an upgrade to fix certain bugs, it ALWAYS adds different ones. SDS doesn't have the bells and whistles but it's far more stable.
As far as the RS-485 protocol, I've never taken the time to look that up for ACSC. Our physical setup uses what we call GameNets. Each one supports a certain number of slot machines via rack mounted boxes containing "Arctic" cards. These interface cards connect to the home runs that go to each bank via Cat6 cables. From there it goes to "harmonica" boards and cat5s to each player tracking setup inside the game. It's all serial (and our setup is older, so it's not high speed). The harmonica boards look like unpowered 5 port network hubs. In theory it works well enough, but get one cable with a drink spill in it and the entire bank will stop communicating.
Going back to the original topic:
IGT keeps the Ccoms locked up tight as a closely guarded secret. I've got quite a few driving progressives, but if I ever have an issue with one I have to call IGT, as they have the software, keys, and access codes to work on them. I really can't do much of anything with them except cycle power if they have a hiccup. Not to mention, it uses fiber optic to communicate with the machines on the bank. Those wires are a bit fragile. The Ccoms then tie into a cisco integrated services router, which communicates with IGT Vegas via a T-1 with a POTS backup. So, while it's possible someone could create a home-brew to replace all of that, I kinda doubt it's gonna happen due to the riot IGT would throw at someone if they find out it's been done.
Hope all that helps a bit!
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:agreepost: All great posts!
You had mentioned "great games you could play" if you could fool the WAP. If you did, you would THEN need a Server License Dongle for many games (Judge Judy, Ghostbusters to name a few) for the IGT server to allow the game to be activated (similar to how we "activate" windows and other programs on our home PC's). License requirements are written in the Game Code, so you'd have to re-write the copyrighted code. And I'm sure the License holders would have a BIG issue with that. :talktothehand:
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c com boards are easy to program takes about 5 minutes...... you need a igt programmer which is very hard to come buy but a few have them...... one of my machines is run on a c com board.....
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:agreepost: All great posts!
You had mentioned "great games you could play" if you could fool the WAP. If you did, you would THEN need a Server License Dongle for many games (Judge Judy, Ghostbusters to name a few) for the IGT server to allow the game to be activated (similar to how we "activate" windows and other programs on our home PC's). License requirements are written in the Game Code, so you'd have to re-write the copyrighted code. And I'm sure the License holders would have a BIG issue with that. :talktothehand:
I am sure they would but who cares? I am using this in my home in private. I wouldn't go around advertising it to people I don't know.