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Author Topic: Scrambled Screen on Startup  (Read 2474 times)

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Offline Kringle

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Scrambled Screen on Startup
« on: July 07, 2022, 12:22:07 PM »
Hi All!  I'm brand new here.  Hope I'm posting this in the right place.  So about 20 years ago I bought my mom a used igt video poker machine for her birthday.  It was her next best thing to playing in person at Riverside River Bar in Laughlin.  Unfortunately she passed in May of this year and I have inherited this machine back.  I know a little bit about it, but certainly not everything, I'm mechanical but not too handy with a multimeter.  Anyway, it's had a glitch for years that she was able to work around, and I'd like to get it figured out once and for all.

When you power the machine up, it sometimes comes up scrambled. If it does, you can cut the power and power it back up and it sometimes comes up fine.  I'd estimate it's scrambled about 60% of the time you start it up.  Once it comes up unscrambled, it will remain in a proper state until the power is cut again.  Somebody told me that it might be a component on the MPU board, but I have no idea how to diagnose that.

I guessed my forum as I don't know the proper title / category of the machine. It says on the plate that it is an IGT 3670-D Bartop made in 1989.  I'm attaching photo for reference.  Any assistance is appreciated.

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2022, 01:04:15 PM »
So sorry to hear about your mom......

What you appear to have is a IGT PE+ (Players Edge) although it could be just a PE
- Does it have a bill validator as that will determine if its a PE or PE+ (PEs don't). Early PE+'s didn't either but you can tell from the game board if it does.
Assuming its a PE+  there are two kinds of boards - One is called a Superboard and the other is a Standard board.
The Superboard can take multi-game sets, and the standard cannot, more games are available for the Superboard.

The game is controlled by 7 chips (6 on the non-superboard). You can swap these chips out at anytime to change themes on the machine.

On the superboard you have Data Chip, Program Chip, MGO, MRO, MBO, MXO and a CAPx chip.
The regular board you have Program Chip MGO, MRO, MBO, MXO and a CAP chip (not capx)

The M'series of chips in conjunction with the Cap or CAPx chip control the graphics.
The RGB in the name of the M' series chips correspond to Red Green Blue just in case your wondering. Not sure what color X is (LOL).

The Data chip and Program Chip are the game theme.

The colors all look right to me so I don't think its the M'series of chips but it could be the CAP/CAPX Rom.
I would pull the chip - run a white eraser over its legs to clean it up and then put it back. See if the problem goes away.

Take a quick pic of your game board and post it here and we can be more specific.






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Offline Kringle

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2022, 01:12:15 PM »
Awesome, thanks for all the great info. and thanks for your condolences.  She LOVED LOVED LOVED video poker!   It does not have a bill validator installed, just a coin comparitor.  I'll give a go with the eraser tonight when I get home from work and get some more photos.  Thanks again!

Offline jay

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2022, 01:52:04 PM »
If this is a PE (not PE+) then it might not have any of the stuff I just mentioned.

An early PE+ didn't have bill validators either .... but the presence of a bill validator would confirm that this was a PE+

Best give us a quick pic of the MPU to be sure.
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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2022, 01:57:18 PM »
OK thanks, I will grab a pic of the board tonight.  I found an old pic on my phone of the machine top, not sure if that tells you anything?

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2022, 02:26:51 PM »
It’s a bar too conversion.
But the insides will tell the tale.
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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2022, 06:14:46 PM »
Here's the board
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 08:48:04 AM by shortrackskater »

Offline jay

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2022, 06:47:14 PM »
PE+ standard board.
All the chips are well labeled.
Clean up the cap chip.
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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2022, 06:51:16 PM »
Man , i hate to sound stupid, but which one is the cap chip? 

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2022, 06:56:47 PM »
You have the 4 graphics chips - the smaller chip directly above them with the brown label.
It says cap right on it.

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2022, 07:19:25 PM »
HEY HEY.... I THINK IT'S FINALLY FIXED!
Started it up 5 times and it came up right every time.  Hasn't done that in the 20 years since I bought it!  I NEVER would have found that on my own!

What's the best way to say thanks?  PP Forum donation?

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2022, 07:22:06 PM »
OH. SPOKE TOO SOON.... scrambled again.   😅   oh man, do i need a new board or chip or what?

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2022, 10:02:29 AM »
The universal truth of intermittent problems with any thing electronic are that they are a bi*ch to nail down so some patience and some trial an error are going to be necessary here.

SO it looks like playing with the Cap chip perhaps changed the results somewhat or perhaps it didn't ...... as you still got the glitch.
The other thing you have done is removed the MPU board and pushed that back into the machine after. So perhaps this simple reseating of the board helped.

For good measure you could also use the white eraser on the edge connectors of the MPU board where it would push into the motherboard.
See if this makes a change.

If the program chip was bad you would more likely get an Eprom error not a scrambled screen. Game would not load. I bet you can play the game with the scrambled graphics.
The screen itself is not glitchy - actually looks pretty sharp so I am not suspecting any video components are bad.
The colors all look right to me despite the scrambling so I am not thinking the M' series color chips.

Thusly - I am still focused on the cap rom as the culprit if its not simply a connection problem.
I would first get myself a new caprom - the number is on the chip so you should be able to contact any of the vendors on our home page (call) and one of them should be able to supply one.
This is going to be low cost.

Next we can take the sledge hammer approach and swap the MPU board - but before you spend the money on that I would clean up the edge card, then buy the cap rom.....




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Offline knagl

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2022, 04:20:33 PM »
The CAP chip controls the color palette available to the game, not the order of the appearance of the graphics on the screen. As such, that would be the last chip I would suspect in this situation.

I would suggest carefully removing and re-socketing each of the graphics chips (MRO, MGO, MBO, MXO) as well as the GAME chip to ensure they're all making a good connection.

Remove and reseat one chip at a time so there's no possiblity of installing the wrong chip in the wrong place. Ensure that you replace the chip in the same orientation as how you removed it. Note that there is a half-circle "notch" on one end of the chip -- that notch matches up with a notch on one end of the chip socket. Be careful not to damage the legs when removing and replacing the chips.
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Offline BrianT

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2022, 05:09:11 PM »
Ok, according to my documentation:

PP0197 - Info
Game Type: Standard Draw Poker (Jacks or Better)

Actual Rom label:

PE-PLUS POKER
PP0197 A45-A74
10/23/95(1-512)
@IGT  L95-2452

PSR for build states CG2004 + CAP740


PayTable   Js+  2PR  3K   STR  FL  FH  4K  SF  RF  (Bonus)
----------------------------------------------------------
   BA      1     2    3    4    5   8  25  50 250   1000
  % Range: 93.8-95.8%  Optimum: 97.8%  Hit Frequency: 45.3%


Your issue is you have the wrong CG set, you'll need CG2004 for correct graphics. Graphics sets are dictated by the build number and based on your pic, the L95-2452 file is build A45-A74 and according to the PSR for that build, the correct CG set is CG2004 :-)

BrianT

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2023, 01:20:48 PM »
Hi, Thanks for all the info.  I'm not really a highly technical guy with regard to these machines.   Do you know where I can get whatever I need to make this work properly?   Board or just chip or both?

I removed and cleaned all of the board contacts as well as the program chips as suggested.  Honestly seemed to get a bit worse rather than better.

I've got some elderly folks that would love to use it, but it keeps glitching out.    Let me know.

Thanks!

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2023, 08:26:59 AM »
The on/off blue screen was caused by some very corroded tray transformer KK 156 pins and a corroded 6 pin header.
The board was defective because my test chips also showed pixing.
I found a board set of chips with the PP0197 program chip and the set had CG1219 color chips.
I put the found chips into a known good PE+ MPU board with the repined tray transformer and the game came up and played
fine for 2 days straight.
Let them that don't want any, have memories of not getting any.

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Re: Scrambled Screen on Startup
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2023, 02:45:47 PM »
Big big thanks to Badbaud for hooking me up with a new multi game board.  Can't wait to get it in the machine and finally be past this 20 year old issue.  Now looking for the proper game glass for the side panel to go with the multipoker software.  :thank_you: :thank_you: :thank_you:

 

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