New Life Games LLC
Progressive Controllers and Displays => Mikohn Progressive Systems => Topic started by: Rep on October 19, 2018, 07:00:26 PM
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Hey guys. As of right now I have a PE+ with a CHAM2+ working perfectly as a stand-alone progressive. I do plan to get a Game King if I can ever find one and can afford it. How hard would it be, or would it be doable to get like a master display (don't even rly need small displays for the machines) and link em together? Can ya link a PE+ and a Game king if I can get my hands on one? And if so what would be the easiest way working with what I have now which is just the CHAM2+ and the small display it runs. Thanks NLG, you guys are the best. Glad to be back and thanks again for all the help over the years!! :) <3
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Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?... ;)
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Long story shortened....>>>
Normally, machines of the same platform are linked together. (for example. S2000's w/ other S2000's) :cool_thumb_up:
Linking different machine types (such as a PE+ and GK) can be done but believe me, it's not simple. :no:
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Drat, how bad are we talking. Like SUPER complicated? Or just tons of equipment needed? I was figuring maybe the cham2+ I have now would be like a gateway, then I'd need the display I want as a main one and then have both hook to that? I guess I'm just thinking too simple tho, I'm guessing a lot more would go into it. If The machines were the same I can imagine there wouldn't be much issue, I just didn't know if it could even be done so I figured I'd ask the pros
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At a minimum I believe for a large display you will need a Supreme board to drive it and probably a con2I for machine interface at a minimum. As bunker stated two different platform types add complexity.
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Eek lol. I figured the display above but between the 2 machines would look cool. Nothing overly huge but bigger than the 12-cell the ChamII+ runs. Maybe at some point I would open that can of worms just to see. Wouldn't be for a while that's for sure. I don't even have the Game King yet lol
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The CHAMII+ is not a link controller, its a standalone controller designed for 1 machine. It does not support a large display.
The right way is to use a CON2I SuperController.
This can interface to a variety of machines - the Nevada Gaming control board would never allow this to happen in a real casino situation but technically there is nothing stopping you from doing this as long as you stay within the IGT line up. The "I" in the CON2I means IGT.
The CON2 then can feed a Supreme (large display) or you can feed a bunch of ChamII (non plus) which drive smaller displays. The CHamII+ can be run in just CHAMII mode so it can be re-used.
Technically speaking the interface to the ChamII+ is 3 wires - Coin In, Ground, Data.
From a Hack: perspective ..... It would be easy to parallel the Coin IN/Ground across on multiple machines. This allows the progressive to be incremented.
The problem is the data wire - this is how the progressive amount is displayed on the screen of the PE+ / Game King. I am not sure this will work in parallel,
If don't hook up this wire on a PE+ the screen displays the word "Progressive".
I am not sure but I think the Game King is less forgiving and comes up with the message "progressive down".
I would first connect the data line to both and see if it works. If it doesn't (and I suspect it won't) I would remove it from the PE+ and leave it connected to the Game King.
This hacked solution won't scale much larger but it should get you both machines working.
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Cool deal jay, K+ for the info! Just a project to tinker with in the future, I know the Cham2+ is just for 1 machine and only drives that small 12 cell, but I thought you could use it like a gateway/passthru. All this is a LONG ways off anyway as I said I don't even have the Game King yet. I was just kinda curious and I didn't remember reading about different machine types ever being in the same progressive. Hopefully I get the Game King soon and after I finish playing it like crazy, I might tinker a bit and see what I can do :) THanks again guys for info! :)
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I have 3 S+ and a PE+ and I use a CON1 controller.
The CON1 cannot drive a supreme but it can drive a large overhead display via a CHAM4 board.
The Cham4 does not support graphics but each panel is 16" wide and 4" tall.
You can configure up to 16 display panels in any configuration you want. The one over my bar is 8 panels wide x 2 panels high. About 10.5 feet long and 8" high.
You do need to hack the chip a bit but that is documented on the old site. The only limitation is that the font height only ever gets to be 8" tall. So if you went to 4 panels wide x 4 panels tall you would really just be displaying on the two middle rows except when you did the UP or DOWN motion for the lettering.
My display started out as one of those round cans you saw hanging in the casino Royal and it was a 1 x 10, its now a 2 x 8. I took the parts, threw away the can.
The CON1 has 2 wires - Ground and Data and can support up to 16 machines.
I then use LED5 (also known as a CON1) to drive the small displays similar to what the ChamII+ has. I use one of those in each slot.
These are fed by 2 wires RS485 (I believe) from the CON1.
Having just the 2 wires the PE+ could not natively display the progressive amount. Mikon made a gateway board that takes in the 2 wires from a display along with the ground wire to create that third data line for the PE+ This works like a charm,
The CON1 components if you can find them are significantly cheaper than the CON2 bits but you are limited in the fancy displays you can have.
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This is an interesting scenario you bring up jay, this might just work. All I rly would want is the jackpot amount displayed, I don't need fancy graphics or anything like that but I just would like it on something larger than a small 12 cell led. I don't even rly need the small displays on the machines since it will be on screen. I just thought it would be cool to have a slightly larger display showing the progressive amount and link the 2 up. Nothing big or fancy. This might be a way to go for this project once I can get to work on it :)
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A little update to this post. I did get my hands on a Con2I however no wiring. Is wiring for it even made or sold? Would I have to buy pieces and build the wiring myself? I was thinking maybe having a machine interface cable with support for say 5 machines (expandability, not in the near future lol, I have the PE+ and Game King for now). Also would the Con2I drive a small display? I figured nothing fancy but bigger than a 12 cell like I said, the machines themselves will have it on screen so small displays for them I don't really need. Even say 2 12 cell displays one on top of the other would be a decent size for my needs. This might be a ways off as my budget is pretty low due to only getting a disability check, but I figured maybe I would get the ball rolling. Also what's the best way to get PSP going nowadays, when I set it up for my Cham2+ I had an OLD OLD OLD like early 90's laptop at my use which I no longer do, and I do have a serial cable but I can't find the rewired one that is required. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to ask my NLG friends and the real professionals how to get started on this. Being homebound projects like this do me a lot of good mentally, so I figured why not?!! Thanks NLG for everything as always <3 :)
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The Con2i has two bus interfaces.
You don’t really need a factory harness just the molex style connectors for the ends.
On the S+ and PE+ the mother board (small board that the Mpu tray plugs into)
Has a 4 pin connector. The 4 pins are Coin In, Ground, data in and not used.
When you drop a coin or play a credit there is a momentary short between coin in and Ground.
This is what advances the progressive.
These are the only two pins used by the Con2i
Depending on the model of Con2i you have 5 pins, 9pins, 17 or 33.
In actuality there is an even number of pins but one is not used.
One wire from each pin goes to the Coin in on each slot and the ground is common between all of them.
What differentiates the Con2i from the Non-I models is the timing of the momentary short on the coin in.
The other bus is the Output to the display controller.
This is a 2 wire rs485 output. Again 1 pin for each slot and a common ground.
The small 12 cell display controllers are called a LED5 and the larger display controllers are a Cham 44
Same 2 wire cable feeds both.
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Thanks again for the further info jay, you've been a godsend with your knowledge for this little insane project idea of mine. Right now I have a Cham2+ setup on the PE+ running a standalone progressive on that and have the GK using its built in standalone capabilities just so you know my current setup. Is there anything from the Cham2+ I can re-use with the Con2I? From what I saw all the connections look different. What would your suggestion be as far as wiring (type, where to get, etc) I'm sure I can make my own cables if need be if there's nothing really special about the wires. Or would it just be easier to look for a used one? And what would you suggest for a display, again don't need anything fancy, just want it to display the amount. Thanks again jay, appreciate all your help with my insane idea here :D
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Not much can be reused.
If you have the PSP program and the serial cable from working with the chamII+
That’s more than a start.
The LED5 (Link Extension device) is a Cham I
It uses a 12 cell meter and looks like the ChamII+
The difference is that nothing from the LED5 connects to the slot.
It’s strictly a 2 wire cable to the Con1i
The cham44 connects to a 16†wide x 4†tall display panel.
The most common configuration is a 1x2 which means one panel tall x 2 panels wide.
So the metal can that the displays go in is 36†wide framing 32†of display.
I bought a 1x2 then I later bought a round display that you see hanging from the ceiling of a Casino.
If you have been to Vegas the casino royale was running one or two of these.
Not wanting to pay for the shipping nor having the room to hang such a display I stripped it for the parts.
This consisted of two power supplies, one had the cham44 board on it and 10 panels.
Basically a 1x10
What I found is that when I set up the display on the table at home my long messages got cut off. When I did the same with my 1x2 they scrolled. When I compared the two chips it would appear that the 1x10 chip was really a 1x16 chip. So as a test I made a much much longer message and it did scroll but only 10 panels worth. I burnt a new eprom modifying the 16 to be a 10 and it worked perfectly. I scref around a bit more and found I could make a double high panel 2x4 as an example. The limitation seemed to be a maximum of 16 panels. So working EBay I picked up some more panels and built a 2x8 for over my bar. That works out to 128†or slightly over 10’ and 8†high.
Once again the display has no graphics.
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Thanks again for the info jay. So it looks like I'll keep the Cham2+ as a whole unit since nothing can really be used. I SHOULD still have PSP somewhere since I had it to program the Cham2+ but I guess I'll have to get a USB to serial adapter maybe? I had access to an ANCIENT laptop back when I set my progressive up which I no longer do. I know I have a serial cable here but I don't think it's modified, I used another one previously and I dunno what happened to it, it's been like 10 years at least lol. No graphics is perfectly fine, I just want the amount to show and I don't really want a huge display for it. So maybe 2 2x16 LED's if those will work and if I can find em? Heck if it would work even just 2 2x12 LED's would work for me. Little by little this mystery unravels... Me and my stupid ideas haha, thanks again jay! :)
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Good Morning,
The LED5s are about the same as a ChamII
Except they need a con1 to drive them. They are a single 12 cell meter.
The ChamII is the similar box to the LED5 but designed to be fed by a Con2
The ChamII+ is the standalone version that doesn’t require a separate progressive controller.
The ChamII series does have the advantage that you can have multiple meters plugged in to do different levels of progressive, with the LED5 you can set it to display whatever level of progressive you want but if you want two levels displayed you need 2 LED5 controllers each with 1 display.
On the larger displays driven by the Cham44 you can do 1x16 it 2x8 or 3x5 etc but you can’t exceed 16 panels. You can also only do double high letters you can’t get anything larger. Finally althoughyou May have multiple rows of panels you can have your message scroll up down or across but it’s still only 1 line of text.
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Data In
On the S+ and PE+ there is a Data In pin that the Con1 does not support.
With a ChamII+ it uses this pin to be able to display the progressive amount on the screen of the PE+ and with the S+ it uses this pin to display the progressive amount when you hit a WIN on the Credit meters.
For myself displaying the progressive amount on the PE+ screen vs just the word progressive is a must but I never felt compelled to do it with the S+.. If you want to do this with the CON1 you need another box called a Mikon gateway.
It takes the display output from the CON1 and the ground from the Coin in and feeds the data in pin.
Here is a link to ebay for a LED5 controller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-BALLY-MIKOHN-PROGRESSIVE-CONTROLLER-BOARD/180470523552?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-BALLY-MIKOHN-PROGRESSIVE-CONTROLLER-BOARD/180470523552?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)
Its inexpensive but Just note that it doesn't appear to have a power supply attached to it. Nor does it appear to come with the meter.
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Oh yeah, I have the on screen progressive amount on my PE+ and that's a must for me as well no question. I just wish the ChamII+ display was a bit larger and I could use it. For a machine it's a good size but not really an overhead. Even maybe if it was 2x12 and not 1x12 that would be cool. I don't want a HUGE display but I'd like it to be a little noticeable even the 12 cell like from the cham2+ with another on top to make it 24 cell total would be cool. I do see 2 display ports on the Con2I so maybe that's doable with the proper connections. I have much to learn I'm pretty clueless outside of the ChamII+ which is pretty simple to use
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You can drive as many displays as you want from the con2i
I have 4 machines, 3 are S+ and one is the PE+
They all share the same progressive amount.
This would never be allowed in a real casino as the PE+ hits Royals way more frequently than a S+ hits a top award but my basement isn't under any particular gaming jursdiction.
I have a 12 cell in each of the 3 x S+'s and the progressive amount on the PE+ screen.
Over the bank of machines I have the 36" 1 x 2 meter and then over the bar I have the 10' sign.
In addition IGT has a 4 spot 7segment display for behind the pay glass (you remove the progressive sticker). I use these as a secondary progressive for the next from top amount. These are standalone progressives and is is on the S+ only as this does not mix with the CON2i
I did this because I can.
With both the ChamII+ and the Con2i you can program 4 levels of progressives but for me I wasn't going to buy more Mikohn displays for the secondary amounts
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You can see the large sign over the bar - Pic 1
The second pic shows the 12 cell in the S+ - I hacked up the player tracking bar (and reel tray) to put that in.
You can also see the small behind the payglass progressive in that picture
Finally the third one is a picture of the bank of slots with the 36" meter siting over the machines.
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Wow jay! That setup you have is SWEET!!!!!! I love the little progressive meter you put behind the glass for the lower award! The 36'" overhead you have is awesome, that's basically what I'm looking for but ofc not even that big just something smaller but noticeable, if I could swing having a meter on the machines individually that would be nice but not needed. Gorgeous setup tho, I love it. If I had the room I'd love to go all out like that, but with the budget I have being on disability that alone limits me and ofc space is a huge issue, I don't have a ton to work with. Def would like a small overhead like master display tho, that would be nice, and something the Con2I itself could power would be a plus too since I wouldn't need to buy anything aside from the display and wiring rly. Thanks again for all the info and sharing jay! :)
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I saw this and thought of you.
Its a 12 cell meter but its in quite a nice frame that makes it look larger than it is.
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Wow it does indeed look bigger than a 12 cell for sure!! I'm just puzzled as to what to do for my main display. Even if I could somehow link 2 12-cells together and make it more square (one atop the other). Even that would work, like I said I don't need anything crazy for this. The wiring I'll eventually come up with an answer for or end up making myself. Right now I do have both progressive but not linked obviously, the built in progressive on the Game King is rly nice, was much more time and work getting the Cham2+ and setting it up for the PE+. Those are nice pics tho, I do like that look, still amazing that its just a 12 cell, it does appear much larger! :)
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I'm curious Jay why don't you think a supreme would work for rep? You could then drive very large displays and even have cool graphics. The stuff isn't that expensive and would interface with the con2i.
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A Con2i would work just fine. In fact he could use his CHAMII+ in a non plus configuration driven from the Con2i
He was looking for cheap.... can the con1 stuff when you can find it is at throw away prices.
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Yeah sadly budget is a big issue since I am disabled. Not much leftover after bills. I'm just kinda of in a "where do I even start" position. In an ideal world I'd have a small 12 cell on each machine (if not no big deal since it shows the progressive on screen) and I just want something as a main display to show the amount. Don't need anything special there, don't need even text let alone graphics just the progressive amount and it can be small (small is good tbh, space is limited) I just want something bigger than a 12 cell for it. Even if 2 12 cells could be used on top of each other that'd be cool! My other issue is that I am clueless lol. I've had the ChamII+ for years and set that all up, so that I have no issues with, I've worked with it. But talking a bigger scale, more than one machine, other equipment, etc I have no idea lol. Appreciate all the help as always NLG <3 :)