New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: DirtinLa on October 15, 2016, 06:50:28 PM
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Where do I begin. Got my 25-925 coil intoday and installed it the coin stepper now works
Tested the hopper 110v to the motor and it spins
went through all the switches and steppers and all SEEM fine
Where do I start my trouble shooting and how?
Thanx in advance
-=Fred=-
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Do you have a copy of the manual
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yes I do?
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The first thing you need to do the same with any machine is familiarize your self with the switches and what they're called and where they're located that will be on page 12 and 13 and then we go to page 21 the winter circuit for a 3 & 5 line machine it will tell you where everything goes and comes from it is not exact to a 955 but it is really close I am curious if the payout relay is putting power through it when you tested the motor did you test it through the payout relay or did you put power directly to the motor
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Hi Jon,
I have em pinball experience so I know switches inside and out.
Perhaps I don't have specific manual but one that covers the 873 5 line 25cents machine I have
http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/bally_em_manual/bally%20em%20manual.pdf (http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/bally_em_manual/bally%20em%20manual.pdf)
The hopper I did only one test which was to power it with 110V. I took the whole mechanical parts of the hopper
and cleaned and rebuilt cause it wasn't working at all. I then went thru all the switches and stepper before reinstallation
and all looked good. Hopper runs great under one 110 and I was able to jump 50 volts to the relay and it worked then too.
I did find a CLUE. The winner paid light remains lit which leads me to believe the hopper is NOT resetting. I have manually
I believe reset it http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=18776.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=18776.0)
But not quite following the 4 ways to reset?
This sounds like a GREAT place to start. Let me go do some troubleshooting
Thank you
Fred
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http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=10610.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=10610.0)
Try this on the reset circuit I asked told me know to write this seven or eight months ago he did a wonderful job being that it is not in the manual
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Try setting up a payout, say 10 coins. Tracy the circuit across the reel wiper boards. Starting on the 3rd reel board grey 90 wire to the 1st reel wiper board where it exits to the beau plug through the machine to the 10 coin solder joint on the payout step up unit. Should get continuity all the way. This should help eliminate this portion of the payoff circuit.
The 90 wire is activated through a series of switches and the discribed above, if all condition are met the hopper should run.
This circuit is typical for the 742 and 809, but your machine could be slightly different.
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Does the machine play? Will it take coins? Do you get handle pull? Does coin accept lite come on?
Pay problems you should worry about after you get game play.
Sounds like you know what you're doing.
Winner paid lite should go out after hopper reset solenoid fires and latches out its links.
Linkage latching physically pushes open winner paid lite switch you will find...its behind payboard by 100 tooth gear.
Lite will not go out until physically pushed open. What is confusing is that payboard can reset & win paid lite can still be on. Throws a lot of folks.
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Until you find out why your B25-925a burned, you should not leave machine on unattended for too long. ( i know the coil # by heart, having replaced enough of them)
They can take up to 10-20 minutes before they start smoking...
Just a caution, hate to see you have to replace it twice.
Generally they burn if the EOS switch stays closed, that upright switch opened when odds step up solenoid fires.
As i recall the EOS can get bent closed when putting top unit back in if you're not paying attention and bang it on case.
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Thanx everyone. I worked on the machine on and off all weekend.
I wish I knew the terminology, anyway now when you put a coin in it doesn't release the handle and it's not stepping.
I hear the 1 coin relay clicking but it not firing the release coil at the handle. I have cleaned and gone thru everything again[size=78%].[/size]
I'll let y'all know what find out. all solenoid are working
Reno the machine was dead when I got it and I don;t leave it plugged in
thanx
Fred
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Did you check the switches behind the air cylinder - if they dont close when handle is i rest position,it wont release handle relay,check for broken contacts there..
The air cylinder tents to get mega gummi ,so that might be the case.
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Reno, I missed your post:"Generally they burn if the EOS switch stays closed, that upright switch opened when odds step up solenoid fires. As i recall the EOS can get bent closed when putting top unit back in if you're not paying attention and bang it on case."
I know I have no bent or closed switches but (EOS) I presume end of stroke is the switches on the multicoin stepper?
Does the machine play? YES Will it take coins? YES Do you get handle pull? NO
Does coin accept lite come on? NO Has in the recent past but not right now
Sounds like you know what you're doing. NOT really, just very mechanically inclined with limited pinball EM experience.
Winner paid lite should go out after hopper reset solenoid fires and latches out its links.
Reno: Is this what you were speaking of that fools PPL? Would the winner paid and coin accepted both come on?
Here is what mine was doing; The winner paid lite stays on. at one point the coin accepted lite would come on and the winner paid lite
would go out.
"Lite will not go out until physically pushed open. What is confusing is that payboard can reset & win paid lite can still be on. Throws a lot of folks."
I was reading about this that it can partially reset the machine but not do a total reset. Don't quite understand why.
Denmark: Yes I did check and adjust those switches. I also went through and tested every single solenoid.
The good news is the hopper is at least beginning to turn. When I hit the coin in microswitch
sometime the hoppers pays me two or three coins.
I believe the machine to be possesed and it feels if it don't give me something I am going to give up on it LOL
It will not beat me!
-=Fred=-
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Have you tried operating the machine by pulling the handle lock lever forward which allows the handle to be pulled.
Sometimes this will reset the machine or help locate a problem.
Photos show the release lever.
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Fred, first thing to start a game is to push down on the coin in switch. Downstroke of that should trip your coin relay assembly. It is located on left rear side of reel mech. That turns on the coin accept lite & conditions machine to release handle on upstroke. Tripping the coin relay by coin switch or by hand closes coin accept lite switch & closes NO sw in handle circuit. If coin relay doesnt trip you get no game play.
Circuit to coin relay goes through a NC switch on the handle stack, if its open coin relay wont fire.
That handle sw is a two way, when handle drops, next coin in pulses odds step up since you already tripped the coin relay.
Take it from there see what you can find.
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Thanx guys, I got some sleep last night and didn't do anything on the machine except to plug it in and
hope it magically worked LOL which it didn't...
The machine when I first got it was stone cold dead. NO ELECTRICITY. but you could pull the handle and
the reels spun and stopped. Wouldn't accept a coin, went straight through. Simple fix 1 fuse and had
lights. Other fuse(50V) and had electricity. after some research I found the burnt up B25-925
and ordered one... in the mean time
while waiting I went thru all the reel mechs and went thru the multicoin relay switches and got the hopper
functional.
I also found a screw jammed into handle release lever, which explained the free pulls and removed
it. The coin mech now worked.
the Machine would then say coin accepted, winner light would go out sometime, and would take a coin
but no payout.
the b25 coil came in and I installed it and the machine would step thru all the coins (5) but if you wanted
to put in 10 it wouldn't stop you like it should and return them to the tray. well still no pay out.
So I begin at the reel mech and double and tripple check all the switches and coils... all good and clean
and functioning. Do the same to the hopper. Do the same to the handle switches and the multicoin. jumped
all coils and they all work. everything steps fine as well but won't step when you put in a coin and won't reset the handle
Put it back together still no payout and now it will accept a coin but won't say coin accepted and will not step.
winner paid lite stays on and SOMETIME when I hit the coin accepted switch wire the hopper will spit
coins at me LOL
I flip the little coin accepted switch wire and you hear the coil fire up in the top unit. I ass-u-me that
is the coil marked first coin, but it's not going any further then that coil.
Question on the flow of electricity, coin goes in and flips that little switch wire. that switch goes where
first? to the "first coin relay" or does it goto the coin relay stack on the reels?
reason for my question is I'm quite certain all switches are good BUT I need to know where to search first?
Sorry I am so long winded.
-=Fred=-
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1st coin in sequence
Here's what happens when you push down on the coin switch...(note wire colors may be different for your machine).
Signal travels from 30 wire to 23 wire. 23 goes from door to a handle release sw NC to a 21 wire. It leaves handle stack and goes to reel mech to a coin relay sw 58 wire NC. This 58 wire is connected to coin relay coil which immedately fires & trips the coin relay -- moving all of its switches.
If your coin relay trips, then coin accept lite turns on immediately. This is how a mechanic knows coin relay tripped without even opening the door.
If you're not sure if it tripped, then pull out your reel mech and look at it.
If it does not trip, then put your meter on ohms & test all of the above switches.
Also ohm out your coin in switch, as often people will wire them backwards It should read 30 wire to 74 wire NC and 30 wire to 23 wire NO.
And when you push down on coin sw the readings reverse.
The reason for accepting more than 5 coins is you may be missing the coin lockout coil armature which is hidden behind the coin acceptor. If the lockout coil is on it pulls the armature away from the hole in the coin acceptor which keeps it from blocking (locking out) the coins.
If lockout is on it accepts coins. If lockout is off it rejects coins back into the tray. If lockout armature (paddle) is missing, then no coins are rejected, and you can insert as many coins as you want.
Hope that helps. We'll get through this bit by bit.
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Awesome info. I'll let you know what I come up with tonight
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I ohmed the wire from the coin switch to the handle switch your colors were correct 30 to 23 then 23 to 21 then I traced the 21 to the plug it ohmed from the 21
follow me here please. Looking into the cabinet the 21 ohmed to the left plug on the big round on the right and the bottom 3rd one from the right. on the left plug it ohmed to the same two connectors but only partially
then I traced the coin coil that trips the reel switches and it went to a completely different plug
now this was at one point working I saw it working and I haven't disconnected or redid any wires so something isn't right
bunches of pics attached
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Can you get a better picture of these wires going to the switch please
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pics you requested
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Can you get me one straight on the switch I want to see the wires where they look up
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ok, so when I put in a coin and check the coin relay it has tripped the switches
all I posted about the comtinuity thru the plugs I guess is null and void as the coin is tripping the coin relay
So where to now
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Yes and now we need to follow the circuit from the coin relay to the handle release relay the wires to that switch in that picture do not look good that's why I'm asking for another picture of that switch here is an example of what I need to see
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THIS IS THE COIN SWITCH ON THE DOOR????
THERE IS NO SWITCH LIKE THIS BY THE HANDLE
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And I believe besides the handle release that the machine will not pay
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I think that orange green wire according to all the machines I have in my game room the manual and everything I know has got to go to that right most terminal I do not know if you have a copy of the manual if not you can go to my Facebook page and download it on page 20 it shows the coin switch which activates the coin relay and when the coins which goes back up and make contact to the orange green wire the normally closed terminal on the switch it is over along the system and then it's down to the handle release so you will have no handle release No step up and no pay without that wire hooked up properly
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I guess what you missed is at one point it was accepting coins and the handle would pull and it also would accept multiple coins and
the handle would pull it just would not payout
trying to fix the payout the handle quit working
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I have read all the posts and like you said you know old em equipment
If you look at page 20 you will see the coin dump switch the common wire comes into it and normally closed is the wire that activates the handle release coil and the payout it is hooked up to the normally open as well as the wire going to the coil relay you will have no handle release and no pay out the way it is wired unless the switch was malfunctioning at one time slow opening maybe it wouldn't last long enough to function I cannot imagine it move the orange green wire to that switch terminal
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As you can see from the wiring diagram if the coin in switch stayed close a fraction of a second Google it would have played in counted coins
But not paid I have had switches hang up and cause all kinds of problems I'm sure when someone else comes in and looks at your picture they will tell you the same thing really common problem on that switch
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ok, not to ignore the last two comments. But I have been working on the handle release issue and I got it to work.
You insert a coin and it still does not say coin accepted like it had in the past.
Now it 2 steps to two coins when you add one
it will step all the way to 5 coins.
now back to where we began
no payout
now I will go back and read your post about the wiring and get back to you shortly
thanx for your assistance
-=Fred=-
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Looking at the photo of the coin switch. It looks like there are two wires on the the center solder connection.
If that is the case the wires needs to be corrected as in the schematic that Jon posted. Slight possibility that the machine has be modified resulting two wires on the same joint.
Also as mentioned if the switch doesn't return all the way back up will this will cause a malfunction.
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please see my rewire information in the pic is this correct???
UPDATE I REWIRED THE GREEN WITH RED TO THE 3RD TERM AND THE OR W GR TRACE TO THE CENTER
STILL NO PAYOUT HMMMMMMMMM
IS THIS CORRECT OR SHOULD THE WIRES BE REVERSED?
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No sir leave the blue wire where it is on the second terminal move the orange wire to the third terminal
On the back of the switch it will have common normally open and normally closed in that order check it make sure the yellow wire goes to Common the blue with Tracer goes to normally open the orange wire goes to normally closed some switches battery replacement are backwards on the normally open and normally closed with the wires soldered on like that I am suspicious someone may have replaced that switch I always check and double-check
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The blue yellow goes on the center and the orange red on the end. I'm not at my shop to confirm, but Jon's photo and drawing indicates the correct wire positions. Solder or use test leads. Test leads should be checked for continuity and there is a chance they might short while operating the machine.
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Here is a picture of the coin switch in my MGM 955..
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I can't thank y'all enough
I now have a paying machine woohooo
who would have thought those wires were soldered wrong
But it now works
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
Have more tweeks to do. but mostly cosmetic!!!!
-=Fred=-
P.S. pic attached of the properly placed wires on the switch
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Glad you got the machine paying.
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Sweet
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WooHoo... That's great news that its fixed..
Gary
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I am wondering if that machine was rewired not to pay because it was in a state where you could not have a functioning slot machine I have seen some very interesting modifications over the years to stop machines from paying
I wish we could find more history on some of these machines where they went who had them it would be very interesting
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All I know is it came out of an unknown building/wharehouse in New Orleans
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It is amazing these machines were all built in Chicago in their day they have gone all over the world 2 homes gas stations lounges restaurants the only state that tracks them adequately is Nevada their records are not public knowledge the gaming Commission of Nevada is one of the most quiet recluse private groups I have ever known how do they get away with it the gaming Commission of Nevada should be shut down and started all over the entire group should probably be fired the laws rules and regulations are utterly amazing being raised in that area dealing with those people how do they actually run such a corporate entity without lawsuits daily