Ceronix 1492

[DarrenF]

I've got this Ceronix 1492 out of an IGT PE+ slant top video poker machine I'm repairing/restoring (separate thread in the IGT PE+ forum on all that).

No signs of life before I took it out of the machine.  No static on CRT face or sound of HV.  The MPU was also jacked, so it didn't have any signal, either.  So I suppose it's possible it was on, but just lacked any signal.

I'd love to hook this thing up to my monitor test signal generator and iso and test it on the workbench.  However, it's got this wacky 19-pin connector on it (see photo).  Does anyone know what type of connector this is?  What it's called?  Are mating connectors still available?  Or do people just crimp on some 0.092" or 0.084" pins to some wire and hope they don't short out in there? 

Also, there's some black goop on the back of the chassis.  I didn't find any goop opposite of it on the metal frame.  Any ideas what it might be?  Should I clean it off or leave it there?

Darren

[Trisail]

I would try to clean the black goop, then check the traces. Looks like the traces would be OK, but just in case.
With no static on screen the HV may be bad.  I would change all the caps 1st and see what happens. Maybe all it needs.
The connectors are still available, I may have a link I could find later. Usually just need to replace the caps and possibly some other transistors or the 7 pin driver (LA7830) to bring them bad to life.

You are going to have to get MPU working to see anything on the screen. Not sure where to start with that, you probably need to do basic troubleshooting to get a bit more info.

Tony.

[DarrenF]

Yeah, thanks Tony.  I've got me a cap kit on order.
In the meantime, I'm going to try to cobble up a way to hook up power and my monitor test-pattern generator to this thing outside of the game cabinet.
Well, that and clean off the black goo on the back of the chassis.

[DarrenF]

OK, got it hooked up on the workbench.  I found another 1492 signal & power wiring harness I'd apparently used before on another 1492 I forgot I had...
Anyhow, it does power up... sort of.  Looks like total vertical collapse.  I'm now hopeful that the FBT is OK, and that new electrolytics will do it a bunch of good.

[DarrenF]

I would change all the caps 1st and see what happens. Maybe all it needs.
The connectors are still available, I may have a link I could find later. Usually just need to replace the caps and possibly some other transistors or the 7 pin driver (LA7830) to bring them bad to life.

OK, full cap kit (19 caps) later, and still no joy.  I'm pretty sure I do have HV.  I get "that sound" when I power it on, and I can briefly feel a little static on the front of the CRT.  Maybe I should break out the HV probe and jam it under the anode cap to be certain...

Black screen.  Tested the signal generator my workbench monitor (which just happens to also be a Ceronix 1492) so I know that works.  No more of the horizontal white line, either.  Just all black, all the time.

So you're experience is that the LA7830 commonly goes bad?  You also mentioned "some other transistors," which ones are frequently bad?  Any other troubleshooting tips on the 1492?

Thanks,
Darren

[Trisail]

Sounds like it got a bit different after cap replacement.
Looks like you are very familiar with CRT repair - so I won't ask if you rechecked the cap replacement work 

Maybe with good caps it took out a device or two. I have replaced 185 2SC4159E and/or 192 LA7830. 

Check the download section - Ceronix 1492 Repairs - is a database of repairs that might help if you haven't already. Get all the 1492 stuff. You can do the voltage checks with the repair manual and schematics.

Other than that, I have just replaced color transistors to fix color errors. I had to replace 295 160V Zener once, not sure if that was blown on it's own or if I did something to take it out.

Tony

[DarrenF]

Sounds like it got a bit different after cap replacement.
Looks like you are very familiar with CRT repair - so I won't ask if you rechecked the cap replacement work 

Maybe with good caps it took out a device or two. I have replaced 185 2SC4159E and/or 192 LA7830. 

Check the download section - Ceronix 1492 Repairs - is a database of repairs that might help if you haven't already. Get all the 1492 stuff. You can do the voltage checks with the repair manual and schematics.

Other than that, I have just replaced color transistors to fix color errors. I had to replace 295 160V Zener once, not sure if that was blown on it's own or if I did something to take it out.

Tony

Yeah, I've recapped a number of monitors (and TVs) over the years, so that's no biggie.  Mostly older stuff (tail end of the 1970s, early to mid 1980s).  The 1492 is newer (90s-era) and is nicely arranged.  All the caps but 1 have the negative lead on the same direction, so that makes it easier to ensure the polarity is correct.  I probably should double-check all of my soldering work, though.  Can't hurt.

My monitor repair knowledge generally consists of:
1) look for obvious burns or major damage (none found here)
2) check the fuse(s) (only one on the 1492, and it's intact)
3) replace the electrolytic caps (done)
4) check the B+ and/or HV (seems OK)
5) seek advise from someone with more experience with that chassis (we are here now)

I put on two pairs of reading glasses, and checked out the silkscreen on the top of the PCB.  They were nice enough to give some hints on there.  I found two places labeled "+27V" both measure OK (27.7).  A point labelled "VIDEO +12V" measures 12.1V.  One marked "V-" measures -208V (I think that's roughly correct, the schems say -200V).  And two places marked "+127V" measure pretty much spot on at 126.8V.  When I slide the HV probe under the cap, I hear some buzzing, and measure ~20kV.  I suppose the probe is loading it down a little?  In any case, HV is present.

Nothing obvious is appearing, so I'm starting to grasp a little.

What's a good source for the LA7830?

[Trisail]

Yep pretty much what I figured when you wanted to put it on the bench and run signal generator. I just replace stuff and hope for the best, no isolation transformer or anything like that for me....

I did do a few DVM measurements once on the one that had the 160V Zener problem with it in the machine.

Hopefully the excel repair datasheet may help.  Good luck. Maybe a couple device replacements and all good.

Tony

[DarrenF]

Yes, the Excel spreadsheet from the downloads area with a list of hundreds of 1492 repair summaries is very interesting.

It certainly does show a whole lot of "black out" monitors that required replacement of the LA7830 (often in addition to some caps).
So I'm now pinning my hopes on that LA7830 vertical output thingy...

Thanks again, Tony.

Darren

[DarrenF]

The connectors are still available, I may have a link I could find later.

I found information about the connectors (which, of course, are used on the coin handling and hopper assemblies, as well as the monitor).
They're TE Connectivity (AMP) "Metrimate" connectors.  Part numbers are 208210-2 (plug) and 208209-2 (receptacle).  The contacts do not appear to be common to any other common connector type I deal with, unfortunately.  Available many places, including Mouser and Newark.

[DarrenF]

Yes, the Excel spreadsheet from the downloads area with a list of hundreds of 1492 repair summaries is very interesting.

It certainly does show a whole lot of "black out" monitors that required replacement of the LA7830 (often in addition to some caps).
So I'm now pinning my hopes on that LA7830 vertical output thingy...

Thanks again, Tony.

Darren

OK, got my LA7830 today.  Swapped it out and... no change.  I guess that's sometimes how it goes when changing out parts that "commonly fail" without clearly diagnosing the issue.   

So, summarizing so far:
- *All* electrolytic caps replaced
- LA7830 replaced
- the voltages I can find labeled on the chassis check OK:  B+ 127V, 12V, +27V and -V (-200V) all seem OK, and EHT seems present.
- black screen, no retrace or anything else visible no matter how I adjust the gain.
- a flash of white horizontal line when I cut the power off is all I ever see on the CRT.

If any 1492 gurus want to chime in, I would welcome the help.   

[jay]

GURU = Good Understanding, Relatively Useless.


I am far from being a monitor tech - which probably means I am useless on multiple levels....
I would however try two things.


1. Hook up a computer monitor to the slot. The colors will be crap as the Centronix inverts the colors but it will prove the gaming platform is functional.
2. Hook up the Centronix to a PC and run it at 640x480 (or less) CGA resolution.


You will quickly find out if its the monitor or the output from the PE+ or both.....

[Trisail]

Doesn't look too good so far. You have done what I would have done. Hooking up a monitor to machine or to a PC to CRT, not sure how easy that will be. I've been reading another post and not sure how that would work. Never tried it myself....

You said the MPU was jacked and no static on the face of the CRT. On the bench you have a white line in the picture, maybe try the bench and see what you can find.

Find someone close to where you are that can help swap the MPU and CRT maybe?

Not sure where to go from here.

Tony

[jay]

CGA pin out... cga pinout - Bing images


CGA to VGA pinout


https://www.google.com/search?q=ceronix+monitor+pinout&sa=X&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA709CA709&sxsrf=ALeKk014OP9jY0HJNqPCNAJFeX8_0zlwHw:1619475818597&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=E1q59CxdPYW6dM%252C4Aui7O6TGse3sM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kS-GH9WSh-i27MXVkAnk-OoFCOeYw&ved=2ahUKEwiVwY7H-ZzwAhVaIDQIHfReDf0Q9QF6BAgGEAE&biw=1884&bih=900#imgrc=8u83Wjz6yNIwnM&imgdii=T0DttG5KR9WKaM


Cetronix Manual - Page 69 for the input specifications.
https://docplayer.net/50248413-Ceronix-lcd-monitor-specification-and-operation-manual.html

[GOS]

i know you are very qualified and want to find the answer so don't be upset with me when I mention that Ceronix may still be fixing the 1492 chassis - they fix and tell you what they replaced - just saying - may save you from pulling all you hair out.

[DarrenF]

i know you are very qualified and want to find the answer so don't be upset with me when I mention that Ceronix may still be fixing the 1492 chassis - they fix and tell you what they replaced - just saying - may save you from pulling all you hair out.

Not upset at all.  I think "qualified" is a bit too strong of a word.  I'm "technically capable" and "well-equipped" for the job; but I could certainly use some guidance/help in the troubleshooting / problem-isolation phase of this particular problem. 

As I look beyond the caps and the IC I've already replaced, parts begin to get pretty specialized and more difficult to source.  It's certainly something to consider if they (Ceronix) still do repair work and the pricing is reasonable.  I'll try to remember to call Ceronix tomorrow, and check on price and availability of their CRT chassis repair service.

Thanks.

[DarrenF]

i know you are very qualified and want to find the answer so don't be upset with me when I mention that Ceronix may still be fixing the 1492 chassis - they fix and tell you what they replaced - just saying - may save you from pulling all you hair out.

I'll try to remember to call Ceronix tomorrow, and check on price and availability of their CRT chassis repair service.

I spoke to Sherry at Ceronix yesterday.  She said they no longer repair CRT monitors.

Totally worth checking.  But a dead-end.

[GOS]

alan (BADBAUD) here on NLG repairs them and https://www.arcadecup.com/