New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games => Topic started by: ATXFire on January 28, 2018, 09:38:18 AM
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I recently aquired an S+ and need some help getting her going. I’ve combed the forums here and haven’t found anything that has worked yet. Background: previous owner said that the machine was working before moving the machine across the state. Movers moved it on it’s back, with the hopper still full. He plugged it in and does what it’s doing now so he sold the machine.
Issue: At power up, the machine top and front lights up. The “25 cent†light also lights up. The reels do energize and nudge when it’s turned on. But this is all I can get it to do.
What I’ve done so far: I pulled the hopper and cleaned out all the coins that were strewn throughout the machine. I pulled the power supply out, cleared all coins from behind and checked for any that got inside. One was inside but was in the bottom dead space. There was no burn mark on it so I’m assuming it didn’t hit the transformer. I checked the fuses with a vom, all are good. I cleaned both ends of the mou power connector with contact cleaner. They didn’t show any signs of burning. Looking at the mpu, there isn’t anything obviously burned or blown. The chips still have their casino tape across them. The battery was tested as good at the board solder joints (3.95v) and had been replaced. It looked like a 5year old soldered it on though, and it’s not the correct leads. They used a short flat lead battery and rigged the old leads, cold soldered it. I’m replacing it if the mpu is good.
Any ideas of what I should look for here?
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Is anything showing on the front displays?
Did you pull the motherboard and look under it for loose coins?
If you press the white TEST button inside the machine does anything happen?
Do you have another similar machine or some spare parts so you can swap some things for troubleshooting purposes?
There are people here on NLG that you can send your mpu to for testing to see if it is working ok.
Due to the large number of coins rattling around and the machine was powered up (probably several times) with the loose coins all over the place you may want to try another power supply. Or verify the power supply voltages are all ok by using a meter. Can you measure the voltage at the fuseholders to see if it is correct?
PS> Welcome to NLG! :wave:
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Thank you for the reply and welcome! In my haste of posting, I did forget to mention that the displays are all blank, all the time. The candle is also not lit at all, just the 2 fluorescent lights, and the coin bulb are all that are lit up. I didn’t pull and check the bottom board that the mpu plugs in to. It still has the sealing foam under it and I figured if a coin got in there, it wouldn’t go far enough for me to not see it. Is there a pin out diagram somewhere for power supply testing? Unfortunately, I sold my last pair of S+ machines years ago. So at this time, I don’t have a way to swap parts, but I’m looking to buy another working machine soon. I can tinker and learn on this one, and don’t really mind acquiring spare parts in the process.
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Maybe door optics or cash can optics? Just a thought.
Dave
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Thanks for the reply Dave, but the BV was removed prior to the last owner, and I’m not getting any display on the front. No test button changes. I was able to find the voltage output values to the mpu. I’m in the machine now about to test that. If this checks out, then my guess is the mpu is bad?
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Its unusual to have blank displays but the reels powered up.....
With the machine off:
A: Remove the hopper
B: Pull the the MPU
B: Unseat and reseat all of the connectors into the mother board (the motherboard is the small one that the MPU plugs into.
C: While you have everything out use a flashlight and look under the motherboard for loose coins. It is possible they went between the foam and the mother board.
D: Examine the MPU - the Reel and Game Chip need to be there. I would reseat those two chips.
E: I would leave the hopper out - worst case this creates a 3100 or 3200 error - of course that would be displayed on the main displays and at this time that would be a good thing.
F: Plug in the MPU and power up
Let us know.
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I checked the power supply at the connector that plugs into the board, it all checks out. I’ll pull the motherboard next and report back. Thank you for the steps!
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That board at the bottom of the machine is the motherboard, the mpu plugs into it and stands vertically. On the motherboard is the power supply connector that often causes a problem, like a partially dead machine. The classic problem is shown in the photo below, but the darkened area can also be on the backside of the power supply connector. And sometimes the connection is bad even if there isn't a darkened area. So while you are doing the other suggested things closely inspect the power supply connector and the motherboard pins that it connects to. With the machine turned on you can wiggle this connector to see if the machine comes to life.
Also attached is a document about the motherboard power supply connector voltages (thanks elvis!)
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Update. I pulled it apart, completely. I had it powered up for a while, when I was checking the power supply, and noted that the mpu tray was warm, as was the transformer on it, so I know the power supply to motherboard connection is passing power. There were no coins under the motherboard, so while it was out, I vacuumed it out. I used contact cleaner on the sockets and checked all the pins. All were straight and no discolored traces on the board. I reassembled and double plugged all the connectors. Next, I pulled the casino tape off the chips on the mpu. I did find that the casino that had this machine, didn’t have techs that gave a crap about their equipment. The reel chip had a couple bent up legs, so obviously they don’t have a chip puller. Now the game chip was all effed up. I would assume a bad chip would still throw some sort of error but need to confirm with someone that knows. Basically there are at least 2 legs that I don’t know how they’re still on there. I’m afraid to straighten the legs they’re so thin and bent up.
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That chip with the bent legs is probably the problem. Post a photo of it, there is a number on it's label. In fact, post a photo of both eproms, they are next to each other on the mpu board. That way we can make sure you have the correct chips for your machine.
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The game chip is the really jacked up one. Label on it is sp1048. There is a repair on one of the legs where it had broken off and was a soldered wire. The reel chip had the original hit label that was stuck to the casino tape and pulled away from the chip window. SS4705 on it. I’m going to straighten the legs as best I can and see if I can get the game chip back in with the solder leg straight. You can see the battery with bird crap solder job.
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The SS4705 chip is for a 2 coin Double Red, White & Blue game. That chip has a payback percentage of about 93%. If you end up replacing that SS chip you can install an SS4703 if you want to boost the percentage to make it a little more fun playing at home. The SS4703 would take it up to a little over 97% payback percentage. We probably have someone here on NLG that has a replacement SS chip for you. If not there are other places online to get them, just ask if you decide to do that.
Here is the NLG IGT S+ info page for your machine and a chart showing the choices of SS chips it can use. Your upper and lower glass should look like what is shown on this page:
http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%202CM/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Double%20Red,%20White%20&%20Blue%20(2%20Coin%20Multiplier).htm (http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%202CM/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Double%20Red,%20White%20&%20Blue%20(2%20Coin%20Multiplier).htm)
The SP1048 chip controls some of the operating features of the machine. Below is a list of SP chips, you can see that SP1048 is specific to the 10mhz version of mpu boards. So if you were to replace the mpu board you'd want to get another 10mhz mpu so you could move your SP and SS chips to it, or get a new SP chip that is compatible with a 16mhz mpu if that was what you got. Your game is called a "TYPE 0" game, so you need to use an SP chip that is TYPE 0 compatible, but there are plenty of them to choose from. Also, your SP1048 uses ID-023 for communicating with the bill acceptor. So keep that in mind if you ever install a different SP chip, you'd want one that also uses ID-023. (most of them are ID-023 compatible).
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=303.msg847#msg847 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=303.msg847#msg847)
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Awesome info! Thank you for sending. This one has the double black tie glass and reel strips in it, and I can confirm this was the game on it when it was at the casino. I also found a tablet with the JP wins for the machine logged as well as a running ticket of service history while it was at that casino. Those things, along with the chip tape says this was pulled and resold. The previous owner sent me the receipt from when he purchased it. Looks like he bought it without the BV in it based on what he paid, and the cash box switch leads were crimped together. The dates match up with each other. Since I am still looking around for machine #2 and don’t have anything solid on a working doner, I picked up a 10 MHz mpu. I am looking for another game right now and suspect I’ll find one this week when folks get back to their shops and can reply. I’ll probably grab replacement chips too for black tie. I’m kinda anal about game swaps and need the whole thing (glass, strips, and chips. I used to buy from la slots when I lived there since they flash what you want, rather than just recycled pulls. I had an eprom programmer and eraser back in time, but that got lost in a move, so no home copy flashing for me.
If there’s anyone closer to Austin, tx that can test this mpu, give me a shout. I don’t want to toss a board if it’s salvagable, they’re getting harder to come by.
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I think you have the problem solved with just the SP chip. Not having all the legs plugged in could prevent it from having display. I think that is all you need to replace. I bet he changed the battery and needed to do a clear, but tried to ground the legs instead of getting a clear chip then bent them putting it back in. And your MPU is a 10mh as seen from the blue volume pot.
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I guess Double Black Tie is a clone of Red, White & Blue. IGT did that sometimes.
Here is the 2 coin Double Black Tie page (you probably found this but just in case you didn't or for others that are following along):
http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%202CM/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Double%20Black%20Tie%20(2%20Coin%20Multiplier).htm (http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%202CM/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Double%20Black%20Tie%20(2%20Coin%20Multiplier).htm)
The 2 wires twisted together are a way to avoid security errors due to cash box not installed or not seated properly. A lot of home owners do that, even if the cash box and bill validator are installed. It cuts down on nuisance errors. It would be nice to know if your mpu is good or bad, and if good it is always nice to have a spare one. Maybe someone here can have you send it to them for testing. (I don't have a way to do that)
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ianmcneil68 lives in Hurst TX. Maybe close to you. I'm sure he can help.
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.......I think you have the problem solved with just the SP chip.....
I'm thinking that too, so I'd replace the SP chip and see if the mpu works. And the new SP chip can be used on a replacement mpu, so it wouldn't be a waste to get it.
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Thanks guys for helping me out. I was able to get the legs pretty straight, and found a couple issues on the mpu socket for the game chip. A couple legs were inserted at one point between the outer plastic and contact. I put it all back together with the same result. There is no way for me to see if the EPROMs are good so I ordered 2 new ones, just in case. While I’m waiting, I have to check the pins from mpu to motherboard, I overlooked that one. I did find on google a couple other folks that had haywire machines doing exactly the same thing but those posts were on ‘05 with no resolution. Soon as I get this figured out, I’ll post what the fix was.
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Where are you located
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North Austin Texas
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ok to far im 45 miles east of dallas
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That battery looks rough. Has it been replaced?
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Battery was replaced when the PO bought it. It did read 3.9v at the pads. Last night, just because I believe I’m troubleshooting an mpu issue, I did resolder it. All they had to do is pull the old one off, bend the tabs and flow it on properly. I figure that if it was a battery/ram corruption issue, I should have a 12 error. But alas no love.
I have replacement game and reel chips on the way, as well as another mpu. I’ll begin again when those come in.
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I think you're on the right track, let us know when you try the replacement mpu. Do you plan to reuse the damaged chip or wait for the replacement chips to arrive? If all that fixes the machine you can then test the old mpu with the new chips to see if it is good or bad.
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I’m planning on testing with all the replacement parts first, since the game and reel chips are reflashed. I’ll probably just send the old board to Jim @ Midwest to test, if the new parts pan out and fix the machine. There’s definitely something funky on this one with voltage control. Jim PM’d me a test with the top 2 fuses and checking reel tension. The mpu is getting voltage to it, but the output on the top fuse seems to be suspect. Removing the top fuse, power on, the reels still have some power applied but the resistance is lower than with the top fuse in. Removing the middle fuse makes the reels go completely limp. I was told that removing either of these should make the reels go completely limp and they’re not doing that. I don’t have a full schematic so I am unsure if these are discrete circuits to the stepper motors in the reels, and getting backfed power, or just low voltage somewhere. I don’t have another machine to test the test.
I’m also getting random led digits coming up in the first display toward the hinge when powering down. That just looks to me like a capacitor discharging on the display and is probably nothing. Sometimes a 1, sometimes a 3, sometimes a 6. I know the panel is getting power at least.
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the top fuse reaction may not be as I described in relation the the reels, I was just looking for some change in the machine by undoing the fuses, the reason was to determine if the fuse caps were good. they have been know to be defective even though the actual fuse was good.
by undoing each fuse, you should see or hear some noticeable difference, you said you heard popping and noises in the speaker, second fuse the reels went limp, and the bottom fuse should remove power completely. so by doing this, if you didn't own a meter,you could determine that the fuses were good and in fact connected to something making a change. seeing the denomination lamp on tells you the connector for the mother power is good for that voltage, if the display is on, it usually means the board is getting power and the +vb voltage is good. I wanted you to measure the +vb voltage across the cap on the display board right in the area of the plug for the displays, if it is present, then your mpu board or some connection is not good.
Jim
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Update and info. I got it working but testing is incomplete. Here’s what happened.
My new mpu came in, and of course it was the wrong one. I got a 16mhz instead of a 10. Doh! But I’m going to keep it and convert over to a 10. I got most of the parts to do the conversion but this is on the back burner for now. I’ll explain.
Saturday, I bought another s+ with a 12 error on it. The machine is pretty rough but I couldn’t pass up the deal. I put a new battery in it, did a ram clear to get it going, and put it in my black tie machine, and it worked. Then the issue was that it had double diamond chips in it. I got new fresh flashed black tie chips, put them in, and it got weird on me. No errors but the bottom candle lamp would blink rapidly and that’s all, no errors. Thinking the new chips were bad, I pulled them and put the old ones in. Now I got the same issue as the original issue. No boot up reel spin, no errors, no candle. I put the new sp chip in, with the old ss chip. Got a 61 loop. I ran another clear, and bingo. The machine is up and running. I’m now not convinced there’s anything wrong with the original board. Next, I’ll put the double diamond chips in the old board and see if it plays.
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One of two things is going on with that flashing candle......
Which bulb by the way - there are two.
1. There is a call attendant button. Try pressing that ?
2. Does it go away after the first game played ?
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When I was testing it. The buttons did nothing. It’s the attendant light that was blinking on the candle (bottom one) and the change light would not light when that button was pressed. The machine would not go into a ready state. No reel movement, would not light up any of the led readouts, would not accept a coin. Reset button wouldn’t produce any result.
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Update and info. I got it working but testing is incomplete. Here’s what happened.
My new mpu came in, and of course it was the wrong one. I got a 16mhz instead of a 10. Doh! But I’m going to keep it and convert over to a 10.
Why not leave the new mpu as 16mhz, you can order a pair of game and reel chips for it?
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Of if your good enough to do board level changes ... then you likely have an Eprom burner laying around and can burn your own 16mhz compatible version ......
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I could probably just leave it at this point. Only reason I didn’t send it back is that it looks brand new, never used. The battery on it was never changed and no screw marks on it.
I haven’t had my eprom writer or uv eraser since way back when and I was tuning gm TPI cars. I’m pretty sure I tossed it and would need a new usb model. I don’t have anything with a serial port on it, and the usb-rs232 converter drivers seem to rarely work properly.
If there is a repo somewhere that has all the roms, I’d be really tempted.
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The 2 chips you'd need for the 16mhz mpu (GAME and REEL chips, aka SP and SS chips) are low enough in cost I wouldn't go to the trouble of modding the 16mhz mpu, unless you can't get a 16mhz version of the chip you need. The Game chip (also known as the SP chip) can be any of several, you don't have to use an SP1048, so you shouldn't have any trouble finding a compatible 16mhz SP chip. When selecting a different SP chip you want to pick one that is compatible with the mpu board (10mhz vs 16 mhz) and also pick one that is the same game "Type" as the SS chip will be. Double Black Tie is a Type 0 game.
Or you could leave the working 10mhz mpu from the second S+ machine in this Dbl Black Tie machine. Then work on getting the 16mhz board to work in the second machine with whatever Game and Reel chips are needed.
Also, although the SP1048 chip from your original 10mhz mpu board is a 10mhz chip the SS chip may work ok in the 16mhz mpu you bought. In that case you'd just need an SP chip compatible with the 16mhz variety of mpu.
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I wanted to expand on something I said earlier in this discussion about the SP chip. I said that if you get another SP chip you'd want to get one that uses ID-023 since that is what the SP1048 uses, so we know your bill validator in that Dbl Black Tie machine uses ID-023 comm protocol.
What I want to add is that if your bill validator is a DBV-200 model it has a dipswitch that will let you select whether the DBV-200 uses ID-022 or ID-023, your choice. And all SP chips are either ID-022 or ID-023. So you could put any SP chip in the machine (as long as it is compatible with the variety of mpu, 10mhz vs 16mhz) and setup the DBV-200 to work with the SP chip.
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Your reel chip should work if it is fast enough, you would only need a new game chip for the 16mhz board.
Key difference between the two boards is that the 16mhz does not have a manual volume control like the 10mhz board and the 16hz game chip has a feature to adjust the volume so you can't just reburn the game binary onto a faster chip.
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This compatibility discussion is interesting. Let’s for a second think about this. Are there games that will only run on a 16mhz board? I have to imagine that there are, or why else change it? I would think that other than supporting a faster cpu, the only difference in chips would be the game settings for volume control. If that’s the only difference, it would be pretty easy to find the hex block containing the sound chip and volume jump points. Then you really could just inject that into the 10mhz game code. Secondly, in the conversion docs I found, there is no cpu change, just the oscillator so I guess you’re just underclocking at that point. Is that even necessary? Why couldn’t a hybrid board work? Sound chip, and volume control on the faster board, using the sound code from the 10mhz game chip. The only thing I see that isn’t going to work besides sound, is that the 8 position dip switch isn’t there either. Is the payout jumper settings part of the game or reel routine? It would be kinda cool to do a dump on same chips and do a compare to find the setting addresses.
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I forgot to mention. This particular machine doesn’t have a BV in it currently. I can mess with this one and not worry about that for a while. I have another s+ that I borrowed the mpu from that has a BV, but it’s got a lot of rust and mouse mess that needs to be attended to before I work on that one.
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Just wanted to pop in and thank you all again for the info. I’m going to leave this machine as-is but I did pick up a round top double diamond round top to mess with, so that has turned into my project machine. It has some rust issues and was a mouse house for a bit, but it does fire up. Also picked up an eprom burner so I’ll look into the issues with my old ss chip and revive that. Does anyone want to share a repo for ss/sp roms? Pm me please if you do.
Also working on a s2000 that I picked up. I’m out of room with 4 machines!!
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The theme's are controlled by the Reel Chip. If its burnt onto a fast enough Eprom all themes are compaitable - no sound or other bits to bang.
Themes are broken into different "types" the type determines the feature set needed to support it. For instance Double Diamond Deluxe, Balloon Bars, Slam Dunk are nudge games. When a particular symbol hits the reel will move up or down. Double Diamond, Wild Cherry, Cats & Dogs, are type 0 games with no special features, Haywire, Spin to you win are another feature set.
The Game Chip is the one that supports the TYPE. This is also different between the 10mhz and the 16mhz games as the 10mhz doesn't have the sound control that the 16mhz chip does.
I think it would be easier to take the 16mhz chip and make it work on a 10mhz board than the other way around by editing the binary. It would be a lot easier if someone would just give us the source code and a good complier - but I doubt that will ever happen.