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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: David Walz on September 07, 2022, 11:36:27 AM

Title: Bally 809-ZZN Full Restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 07, 2022, 11:36:27 AM
Hello, I have been looking for another Bally slot machine for a long, long, time. So, I am back for another challenge. I restored a Bally before on this forum sourcing all of the missing parts.
809-ZZN model
Here it is:

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 07, 2022, 11:38:15 AM
More:

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 07, 2022, 11:41:10 AM
I just got it in and haven't explored the slot machine, so now for the strip down, clean, service, repairs, and so on.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 07, 2022, 07:35:39 PM
So, I am missing the hopper. Any ideas on where I can source one?

I found a picture of of one here on the forum. I can rebuild one if needed.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 07, 2022, 08:44:02 PM
the hopper itself isn't that big a deal ... any 30 pin hopper or rewiring a 30 pin plug onto a hopper would get you partway.

the problem is the payout schedule ... specifically a single cherry paying 3.   

the drawing for the payout disc that belongs to the game is w-923-219 ... which I don't have so I don't know what the M-645-xxx number on the disc itself would be.

you need a disc that can support payouts of 3, 5, 10, 14, 18, 50, 100 and 200.   It may be possible to use a more common disc that has 2, 5, and the rest and mount the disc so it takes three steps to get off the 2 trace, then you'd have to cut other traces to shorten them a little.  Alternatively, add a copper strip to lengthen the 2 trace.

you may be able to find a disc with more pay traces that you can cut short to get the lengths you need, but I don't know who has piles of discs available to hunt thru.

a last resort option is replace the glass and reel tapes to make a more common 809 variant, but it'd be a shame to lose the 3 stars in any position payout - I don't think that was common.

did you get paperwork with the game? 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 07, 2022, 08:59:52 PM
the hopper itself isn't that big a deal ... any 30 pin hopper or rewiring a 30 pin plug onto a hopper would get you partway.

the problem is the payout schedule ... specifically a single cherry paying 3.   

the drawing for the payout disc that belongs to the game is w-923-219 ... which I don't have so I don't know what the M-645-xxx number on the disc itself would be.

you need a disc that can support payouts of 3, 5, 10, 14, 18, 50, 100 and 200.   It may be possible to use a more common disc that has 2, 5, and the rest and mount the disc so it takes three steps to get off the 2 trace, then you'd have to cut other traces to shorten them a little.  Alternatively, add a copper strip to lengthen the 2 trace.

you may be able to find a disc with more pay traces that you can cut short to get the lengths you need, but I don't know who has piles of discs available to hunt thru.

a last resort option is replace the glass and reel tapes to make a more common 809 variant, but it'd be a shame to lose the 3 stars in any position payout - I don't think that was common.

did you get paperwork with the game?

Wow, you have given me a lot of information. I really want to get the correct hopper since the Minty character of slot machine. No paperwork with slot machine, I'm interested in the background of Minty..
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 07, 2022, 09:07:40 PM
What wiring diagram does the 809-ZZN use.

Thanks for everything.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 06:25:48 AM
the hopper itself isn't that big a deal ... any 30 pin hopper or rewiring a 30 pin plug onto a hopper would get you partway.

the problem is the payout schedule ... specifically a single cherry paying 3.   

the drawing for the payout disc that belongs to the game is w-923-219 ... which I don't have so I don't know what the M-645-xxx number on the disc itself would be.

you need a disc that can support payouts of 3, 5, 10, 14, 18, 50, 100 and 200.   It may be possible to use a more common disc that has 2, 5, and the rest and mount the disc so it takes three steps to get off the 2 trace, then you'd have to cut other traces to shorten them a little.  Alternatively, add a copper strip to lengthen the 2 trace.

you may be able to find a disc with more pay traces that you can cut short to get the lengths you need, but I don't know who has piles of discs available to hunt thru.

a last resort option is replace the glass and reel tapes to make a more common 809 variant, but it'd be a shame to lose the 3 stars in any position payout - I don't think that was common.

did you get paperwork with the game?


This is the diagram, the upper cabinet has equipment. I think the payout is in the upper cabinet. Please let me know.





Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 06:27:41 AM
More diagram, cabinet assembly.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 06:29:04 AM
More diagram, cabinet assembly.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 08, 2022, 09:09:36 AM
as ya might have guessed, "Minty" is a character used by the Mint hotel and casino in downtown las vegas ... which closed in 1988.  It replaced the 7 symbol typically used for the jackpot.

paperwork for the slot will be extremely unlikely to find, but the paper for any 809 is going to be close - except the reel wiper wiring and payout disc, but those are straightforward enough to figure out if necessary.   I'd use the 809-ZZE stuff on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ as a first guess.

you'll need to diagram the 30 pin hopper connector in your cabinet and probably make some wiring changes to whatever hopper you find.  Fortunately, bally wasn't in the habit of changing all the wire colors at random, so you'll find that matching the colors between cabinet and hopper very likely to be right.

the upper cabinet has the various units needed for doing the 5 coin stuff:

- odds unit - keeps track of number of coins played.  Controls the lighting and directs payout to appropriate win multiplier unit
- X2-X5 units - look like little pinball score reels.  The units modify when the payout counter steps.  e.g. if you play 2 coins, the X2 unit is used and it steps the payout counter once for every two coins ejected.
- count unit - used for jackpot accounting on meters.  Rarely used in the casinos and doesn't matter if it doesn't work ... the game probably doesn't have the meters installed anyway.
- various relays - mostly jackpot lockup and control relays for stepping some units

the hopper has:

- the payout relay
- payout counter unit
- delay relay on it.   

when scrounging for a hopper, you need one that supports electrically-stepped payout.  Many hoppers are mechanically stepped - even some used on multiplier machines - so make sure the hopper has switches being operated by the coin out pivot arm instead of a linkage to the payout counter (bally 400 manual , page 48, part #12)
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 02:03:57 PM
as ya might have guessed, "Minty" is a character used by the Mint hotel and casino in downtown las vegas ... which closed in 1988.  It replaced the 7 symbol typically used for the jackpot.

paperwork for the slot will be extremely unlikely to find, but the paper for any 809 is going to be close - except the reel wiper wiring and payout disc, but those are straightforward enough to figure out if necessary.   I'd use the 809-ZZE stuff on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ as a first guess.

you'll need to diagram the 30 pin hopper connector in your cabinet and probably make some wiring changes to whatever hopper you find.  Fortunately, bally wasn't in the habit of changing all the wire colors at random, so you'll find that matching the colors between cabinet and hopper very likely to be right.

the upper cabinet has the various units needed for doing the 5 coin stuff:

- odds unit - keeps track of number of coins played.  Controls the lighting and directs payout to appropriate win multiplier unit
- X2-X5 units - look like little pinball score reels.  The units modify when the payout counter steps.  e.g. if you play 2 coins, the X2 unit is used and it steps the payout counter once for every two coins ejected.
- count unit - used for jackpot accounting on meters.  Rarely used in the casinos and doesn't matter if it doesn't work ... the game probably doesn't have the meters installed anyway.
- various relays - mostly jackpot lockup and control relays for stepping some units

the hopper has:

- the payout relay
- payout counter unit
- delay relay on it.   

when scrounging for a hopper, you need one that supports electrically-stepped payout.  Many hoppers are mechanically stepped - even some used on multiplier machines - so make sure the hopper has switches being operated by the coin out pivot arm instead of a linkage to the payout counter (bally 400 manual , page 48, part #12)

A wealth of information!
Thanks.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 02:07:39 PM
Photos, the wiring has not been butchered, it is 95% good condition.
The upper cabinet parts, everything is like a time capsule, its, dirty, grime, but not touched.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 02:18:56 PM
Photos,

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 02:22:59 PM
Photos
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 02:37:43 PM
I've got a repair and I need to locate the wiring connector parts. Any help would be awesome.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on September 08, 2022, 04:12:49 PM
Molex connector,
Lots of variations for these connectors.
There’s a tool to remove the actual pins and sockets.
Removal can be done with a small screwdriver like for working on eye glasses.

Possibly there’s a part number on the part.
In some cases the holes are numbered. Or best to make a diagram and match the color to the hole.
Before taking it apart.
In the past I’ve cleaned and or replaced the burnt pins and reuse the plug.
Hopefully whatever caused the damage has been corrected.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 05:03:49 PM
I've worked with the Molex connector this one is a different shape. I just removed the wiring harness, next is to locate the burnt wire and replace it.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 06:01:41 PM
Mint Casino Bally belly glass.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 08, 2022, 07:38:34 PM
I've worked with the Molex connector this one is a different shape. I just removed the wiring harness, next is to locate the burnt wire and replace it.

some bally parts manuals refer to the connector as a "mate-n-lock".  Amp/TE makes/made a connector called mate-n-lok.

eventually they used molex series 1189/1190 (.093 round pins, 14-20ga) and series 1380/1381 (.093 round pin, 18-22ga) stuff

I've never tried to get a connector body that snaps into the bracket.  You'd need to make some measurements.  Here is the molex .093 family page:
https://www.molex.com/molex/products/family/standard_093 (https://www.molex.com/molex/products/family/standard_093)

a common term for the body style is "panel mount", but molex panel mount looks different.  The mate-n-lok housing looks more like what you have ... e.g.
https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-171196-0.html (https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-171196-0.html)
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 08, 2022, 08:10:34 PM
I've worked with the Molex connector this one is a different shape. I just removed the wiring harness, next is to locate the burnt wire and replace it.

some bally parts manuals refer to the connector as a "mate-n-lock".  Amp/TE makes/made a connector called mate-n-lok.

eventually they used molex series 1189/1190 (.093 round pins, 14-20ga) and series 1380/1381 (.093 round pin, 18-22ga) stuff

I've never tried to get a connector body that snaps into the bracket.  You'd need to make some measurements.  Here is the molex .093 family page:
https://www.molex.com/molex/products/family/standard_093 (https://www.molex.com/molex/products/family/standard_093)

a common term for the body style is "panel mount", but molex panel mount looks different.  The mate-n-lok housing looks more like what you have ... e.g.
https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-171196-0.html (https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-171196-0.html)

Thanks will look for it.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on September 08, 2022, 08:18:43 PM
I don't know if this will help you?
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 09, 2022, 01:02:37 PM
I'm going to start cleaning the Chrome parts, steel parts. Shell, interior cabinet.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 09, 2022, 03:59:40 PM
 :applause:
The original Bally locks were on the machine. Reset lock is a National wafer cam, in excellent condition inside and outside. The door lock is the original Ace lock, the code matched up with Bally.
Kinda cool, so I got them cleaned, made a first fit key using original Ace keys, National keys for both locks.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 09, 2022, 04:00:49 PM
I don't know if this will help you?


YES

 :applause: :applause: :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 09, 2022, 05:22:30 PM
I don't know if this will help you?

you'd need to see more pictures from different angles, especially what's on the back side and the plug(s).  Looks like a large diameter coin hopper which wouldn't support nickels.

what does it say on the label under the handle?

I have no info on a model 878 except it was a "three line pay".
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 09, 2022, 05:36:38 PM
I don't know if this will help you?

you'd need to see more pictures from different angles, especially what's on the back side and the plug(s).  Looks like a large diameter coin hopper which wouldn't support nickels.

what does it say on the label under the handle?

I have no info on a model 878 except it was a "three line pay".

Thanks, I know were trying our best to locate one.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 09, 2022, 05:50:42 PM
Compared pictures.
I have been comparing parts, and the hopper has a lot of parts that are duplicate. So tis would be a good base to start with and build up from here.  :yes:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 10, 2022, 08:26:45 AM
The missing hopper is in three models. 952, 956, 809. The contact plate is: A-1753-72B, the wiper is AS-1046-43A
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 10, 2022, 03:08:50 PM
The missing hopper is in three models. 952, 956, 809. The contact plate is: A-1753-72B, the wiper is AS-1046-43A

that depends on what you define to be the "hopper".  The basic frame, handle, motor, and most of the stuff moving the coins around is common to a lot more models than that.

there's many different pinwheel discs that the coins ride on ... the coin diameter determines which is used.  There's just a few used in the USA tho.

A-1573-Xb is an engineering drawing number.  The 'b' is the size of the paper.  A-1573-72 would be the diagram for a specific layout of traces on the contact plate. 

the number that appears in copper on the contact plate is M-645-xxx, and I assume there's a one-to-one mapping between that number and the A-1573- number.  I've never seen an A-1573-xxx drawing to confirm tho.

the w-923-xxx drawing is what defines the contact plate AND wiring for a specific machine, and the same drawing usually applied to many machines - even machines of different models.  It's the payout table desired that matters.

for example, the 809-ZH is defined by w-923-62 (pedantically w-923-62b).  It uses the M-645-118 contact plate, which is diagrammed on drawing A-1573-72b.    The drawing also applies to some 742A, 808 and other models, and well as many other versions of the 809.   The 809 series games used at least 20 different contact plates ... there's lots of variations in the payout schedules.

I'm not trying to discourage ya, but you have a fairly unique machine that used a possibly unique payout counter contact plate.  The wipers are likely the commonest ones tho. 

I can guarantee that an unmodified M-645-118 disc will not work on your machine.  That disc supports payouts of 2, 5, 10, 14, 18, 20, 50, 100 and 200 (see below).  You need a payout of 3.

a payout counter unit with an M-645-118 would actually be a reasonable disc to get tho, as it has a 20 trace that you don't need.  You can simply cut it to length 3 and use that for your cherry pay.  The trick would be attaching the  wire to the trace in a way that the wipers can ride over it on pays >100.  It may be easier to modify the 2 trace to make it length 3, tho you'd probably need to carve out some of the 5 trace to make room.

anyway, when looking at hoppers, you need the following:
- 5 cent pinwheel and coin knife
- a 30 pin plug
- an electrically stepped payout counter and the associated switches that control it
- a payout counter disc trace pattern that supports the pays you need.
- a payout relay and ideally a delay relay, tho you can source those a lot more easily.
 
all I can see from Stayouttadabunker's pic is that it's an electrically stepped hopper that says 878 on it in sharpie.  The plastic standoffs on what looks to be a circuit board imply the hopper was not pulled from an EM slot.

assuming you want to keep your machine to be 5 cent, I'd recommend focusing on finding a nickel hopper, then see what you would need to make it work on your machine.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 10, 2022, 03:18:32 PM
The missing hopper is in three models. 952, 956, 809. The contact plate is: A-1753-72B, the wiper is AS-1046-43A

that depends on what you define to be the "hopper".  The basic frame, handle, motor, and most of the stuff moving the coins around is common to a lot more models than that.

there's many different pinwheel discs that the coins ride on ... the coin diameter determines which is used.  There's just a few used in the USA tho.

A-1573-Xb is an engineering drawing number.  The 'b' is the size of the paper.  A-1573-72 would be the diagram for a specific layout of traces on the contact plate. 

the number that appears in copper on the contact plate is M-645-xxx, and I assume there's a one-to-one mapping between that number and the A-1573- number.  I've never seen an A-1573-xxx drawing to confirm tho.

the w-923-xxx drawing is what defines the contact plate AND wiring for a specific machine, and the same drawing usually applied to many machines - even machines of different models.  It's the payout table desired that matters.

for example, the 809-ZH is defined by w-923-62 (pedantically w-923-62b).  It uses the M-645-118 contact plate, which is diagrammed on drawing A-1573-72b.    The drawing also applies to some 742A, 808 and other models, and well as many other versions of the 809.   The 809 series games used at least 20 different contact plates ... there's lots of variations in the payout schedules.

I'm not trying to discourage ya, but you have a fairly unique machine that used a possibly unique payout counter contact plate.  The wipers are likely the commonest ones tho. 

I can guarantee that an unmodified M-645-118 disc will not work on your machine.  That disc supports payouts of 2, 5, 10, 14, 18, 20, 50, 100 and 200 (see below).  You need a payout of 3.

a payout counter unit with an M-645-118 would actually be a reasonable disc to get tho, as it has a 20 trace that you don't need.  You can simply cut it to length 3 and use that for your cherry pay.  The trick would be attaching the  wire to the trace in a way that the wipers can ride over it on pays >100.  It may be easier to modify the 2 trace to make it length 3, tho you'd probably need to carve out some of the 5 trace to make room.

anyway, when looking at hoppers, you need the following:
- 5 cent pinwheel and coin knife
- a 30 pin plug
- an electrically stepped payout counter and the associated switches that control it
- a payout counter disc trace pattern that supports the pays you need.
- a payout relay and ideally a delay relay, tho you can source those a lot more easily.
 
all I can see from Stayouttadabunker's pic is that it's an electrically stepped hopper that says 878 on it in sharpie.  The plastic standoffs on what looks to be a circuit board imply the hopper was not pulled from an EM slot.

assuming you want to keep your machine to be 5 cent, I'd recommend focusing on finding a nickel hopper, then see what you would need to make it work on your machine.

Education, thanks! I will specifically look for the 809 5¢. I really need to work on this cracking this nut.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 10, 2022, 03:43:08 PM
Photos: cleaning up the cabinet, inside shell.
The slot machine is a 1970 Las Vegas Mint Casino, the cigarette goop was everywhere in and out of the machine. A brown color goop, and not to be confused with the dried up grease.  :no:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 10, 2022, 03:47:47 PM
Photos: handle mechanism assembly.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 10, 2022, 03:50:24 PM
Photos: handle assembly.
This handle assembly was pretty much frozen. Taking it apart completely solved the problem. Each part had hardened grease, afterwards it works slicker than snot
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 10, 2022, 03:54:27 PM
Photos. The cabinet has some issues, wood screws were not holding I repaired the holes. The cabinet has some issues, I sorted most of them out.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on September 10, 2022, 05:24:47 PM
I don't know if this will help you?

you'd need to see more pictures from different angles, especially what's on the back side and the plug(s).  Looks like a large diameter coin hopper which wouldn't support nickels.

what does it say on the label under the handle?




I have no info on a model 878 except it was a "three line pay".

Thanks, I know were trying our best to locate one.

I will take a photo of the label under the handle Tuesday morning.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 10, 2022, 05:41:32 PM
I don't know if this will help you?

you'd need to see more pictures from different angles, especially what's on the back side and the plug(s).  Looks like a large diameter coin hopper which wouldn't support nickels.

what does it say on the label under the handle?




I have no info on a model 878 except it was a "three line pay".

Thanks, I know were trying our best to locate one.

I will take a photo of the label under the handle Tuesday morning.

Thanks for everything you are doing.  :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 11, 2022, 09:12:44 AM
Starting on the wiring harness. Very slow work, cleaning each part, checking the continuity, checking the contacts, most are dirty. Checking out the switches.

The timer.



Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 11, 2022, 09:18:47 AM
Cleaning the contacts.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 11, 2022, 09:21:07 AM
Contacts cleaned.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 11, 2022, 03:28:41 PM
Photos:
Wiring, I did find something not kosher in the wiring. I removed a aftermarket part. The burnt wires traced to the fuse, and bell. The wall ballast has two, and  I'm wondering if both ballast are being used or one. The factory install is one and the second one is not wired to anything after I removed the wiring that wasn't factory.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 11, 2022, 05:09:54 PM
some machines had a flourescent lamp on the door and another one in the top compartment.  Those games used the dual ballast assembly.

looks like someone had a bad ballast/starter so they swapped in the bigger assembly from a parts pile.

these days, most people change to an LED tube and get rid of the ballast/starter when the tube, starter or ballast goes bad.  The led tube runs directly on 120V and doesn't need the ballast or starter ... and it usually costs less than a ballast or flourescent tube.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 11, 2022, 05:33:11 PM
some machines had a flourescent lamp on the door and another one in the top compartment.  Those games used the dual ballast assembly.

looks like someone had a bad ballast/starter so they swapped in the bigger assembly from a parts pile.

these days, most people change to an LED tube and get rid of the ballast/starter when the tube, starter or ballast goes bad.  The led tube runs directly on 120V and doesn't need the ballast or starter ... and it usually costs less than a ballast or flourescent tube.

Thanks, I will probably remove it. This one doesn't have a fluorescent on the top compartment. however I believe that a topper was installed on the top outside, and that is where the extra wires came from, I am almost certain.

Does putting in LED tubes loose value upgrading the slot machine?
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 11, 2022, 05:47:12 PM
Just a little information, the Contact Plate on the hopper looks like this, a example of one in my junk drawer from a purchase of Bally slot machine parts.

 :nerd:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 11, 2022, 07:21:57 PM
the m-645-144 will be about as good as you can expect unless you find a wiper/contact plate for a 5-line-pay fruit game (e.g. 873-A disc below).  Those often supported a lot of payouts since you could get paid on multiple lines, and there were two sets of wipers fingers instead of one. 

should be easy to make one of those work for the payouts you need.

your m-645-144 would just need the 2 trace extended a little, and there's already room to do it.  People use copper tape or conductive epoxy to repair damaged traces.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 11, 2022, 08:25:34 PM
the m-645-144 will be about as good as you can expect unless you find a wiper/contact plate for a 5-line-pay fruit game (e.g. 873-A disc below).  Those often supported a lot of payouts since you could get paid on multiple lines, and there were two sets of wipers fingers instead of one. 

should be easy to make one of those work for the payouts you need.

your m-645-144 would just need the 2 trace extended a little, and there's already room to do it.  People use copper tape or conductive epoxy to repair damaged traces.

I just put it up as a example, I didn't even think it could be used, I found it my parts drawer. What Bally machine did this come from?
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 12, 2022, 04:02:41 PM
I'm sure glad I don't mind cleaning goop off of the parts, that's nasty, nasty gunk.  :no:

Looking really good. And it doesn't smell.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 12, 2022, 04:43:32 PM
the m-645-144 will be about as good as you can expect unless you find a wiper/contact plate for a 5-line-pay fruit game (e.g. 873-A disc below).  Those often supported a lot of payouts since you could get paid on multiple lines, and there were two sets of wipers fingers instead of one. 

should be easy to make one of those work for the payouts you need.

your m-645-144 would just need the 2 trace extended a little, and there's already room to do it.  People use copper tape or conductive epoxy to repair damaged traces.

Hello.
This is crazy, but I have a base plate, with the other stuff I had in my box and it looks similar to the 809 plate we were talking about. This is the photos that I have.





Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 12, 2022, 06:44:19 PM
Moving forward. Getting the door on, adjusted, cleaned everything, upper glass, cleaned, then installed, some cabinet work, adjusting the lock assembly..  :yes:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 13, 2022, 09:23:37 AM
Hello.
This is crazy, but I have a base plate, with the other stuff I had in my box and it looks similar to the 809 plate we were talking about. This is the photos that I have.

yup, the payout counter units are pretty generic, with the main differences being the contact plate/wipers used and additional switches mounted in a few places.  There are a few different pawls used to operate the switch stacks, but afaik when they changed the pawl design, they used the newer design going forward even if the change wasn't needed for a particular game.  Minimized the parts inventory needed.

if you look in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/809-N/pics, there's some payout counter pics in there ... tho not one showing the completely assembled front side.  There's also a picture of a trace repair, which is how you could make your 2 trace become a 3 trace.

https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/929-1%20and%20929-2/pics/ has a picture of a payout counter front, but the 809 did not have/use the vertical stack of switches in the lower/left corner.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 13, 2022, 08:46:07 PM
Hello.
This is crazy, but I have a base plate, with the other stuff I had in my box and it looks similar to the 809 plate we were talking about. This is the photos that I have.

yup, the payout counter units are pretty generic, with the main differences being the contact plate/wipers used and additional switches mounted in a few places.  There are a few different pawls used to operate the switch stacks, but afaik when they changed the pawl design, they used the newer design going forward even if the change wasn't needed for a particular game.  Minimized the parts inventory needed.

if you look in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/809-N/pics, there's some payout counter pics in there ... tho not one showing the completely assembled front side.  There's also a picture of a trace repair, which is how you could make your 2 trace become a 3 trace.

https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/929-1%20and%20929-2/pics/ has a picture of a payout counter front, but the 809 did not have/use the vertical stack of switches in the lower/left corner.

Thanks.  :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 13, 2022, 08:49:18 PM
More door pictures. Good news nothing was hacked up. I put in new bulbs, replaced the felt in the door glass, replaced the felt on the light covers pressing on the glass. I resolved the plug problem. I still need to restore the belly glass, the replacement tubes are on order. All of the lights are being replaced with new ones. The Upper glass was really dirty, I hand cleaned it carefully not to loose any of the paint.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 13, 2022, 08:59:03 PM
More good news, the electric lock bracket is still intact, wires, and I have a extra lock assembly in my cabinet. Very cool.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 13, 2022, 11:10:11 PM
I checked out the plug for the hopper. The wiring is EXACTLY like the 809-ZEE wiring diagram.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 14, 2022, 05:17:12 PM
It's obvious that the slot machine is basically complete, I remove the belly glass bezel from the door and a metal filler was on the left side, if someone took it apart that wasn't A technician they would have probably tossed it.  :yes:
Working on the belly glass, the Bally glass is beautiful, in excellent condition. I replaced the lights, and it tested good. The good thing that is that wiring that hasn't been hacked. Life is good.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 14, 2022, 05:29:09 PM
So someone added a extra ballast, (another member pointed it out to me) transformer to the machine after it left the factory and I got rid of it.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 14, 2022, 05:36:49 PM
On to the slug reject. It's rejecting nickels, I took it apart and cleaned the parts. One thing I noticed was that the screws were buggered up.
I pulled out a couple of European slug reject from my parts pile and used the screws, and a missing plate. Now back to the first problem.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 14, 2022, 07:35:15 PM
I am working on a Coin Mech Inc. 5¢ Acceptor and I don't know if it is missing anything however it keeps rejecting the 5¢. I've cleaned everything, and I am stumped.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 14, 2022, 08:44:22 PM
I got the Mint Casino fob for the slot machine.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on September 15, 2022, 07:23:59 AM
Regarding the coin mechanism.
The little screw in the flip open magnet door isn’t original.
This screw is for adjustment and needs to be long enough to move the door in and out.

It appears the problem is, the screw needs to be turned out allowing the magnet to slow the coin.
Depending on how far the screw sticks out the other side. It could be possible to make the adjustment.
Usually a quarter turn resolves the problem.

But in this case it might take some extra fine tuning.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 07:42:54 AM
Regarding the coin mechanism.
The little screw in the flip open magnet door isn’t original.
This screw is for adjustment and needs to be long enough to move the door in and out.

It appears the problem is, the screw needs to be turned out allowing the magnet to slow the coin.
Depending on how far the screw sticks out the other side. It could be possible to make the adjustment.
Usually a quarter turn resolves the problem.

But in this case it might take some extra fine tuning.

Thanks, will work on that idea.  :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 08:57:49 AM
So, I cannibalize another nickel adapter, and I am getting some progress.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 01:02:42 PM
I found out the problem, or at least one issue. The Gate with the magnet was worn so bad that I had to level it out. Then a couple of pieces were missing. I think some bozo played with it and didn't have a clue how it worked. Using parts from the European model, I was able to restore it completely. The actual frame was worn where the coins dropped.

The solenoid in the picture has to be activated, when activated it's pulling the plate finger away from the coin drop allowing the coins to drop in the hopper, or below.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 15, 2022, 01:10:49 PM
just to make sure ... are you testing the mech in the game or out?

if in, is the coin lockout magnet working and pulling the armature plate away from the mech (pulling the tab out of the back of the mech).

also, the back of your mech says "50 pence english" on it.  A nickel may not work reliably, tho often you can move the slide piece on the back to make the accepting rules easier.  Guess it also depends on what parts you've been swapping onto the thing.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 01:15:54 PM
just to make sure ... are you testing the mech in the game or out?

if in, is the coin lockout magnet working and pulling the armature plate away from the mech (pulling the tab out of the back of the mech).

also, the back of your mech says "50 pence english" on it.  A nickel may not work reliably, tho often you can move the slide piece on the back to make the accepting rules easier.  Guess it also depends on what parts you've been swapping onto the thing.

This may help.

Same:
The frame for 5¢.
The coverplates.
The Kicker.
The guage.

Different:
The cradle assembly.
The gate, magnet assembly.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 03:21:29 PM
I have some hopper plug photos, I have checked out the location of each one and they match up to the 809-ZEE drawing:



Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 03:37:55 PM
Reel photos:

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 03:40:08 PM
More reels photos:

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 03:42:10 PM
More hopper photos:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 03:44:08 PM
just to make sure ... are you testing the mech in the game or out?

if in, is the coin lockout magnet working and pulling the armature plate away from the mech (pulling the tab out of the back of the mech).

also, the back of your mech says "50 pence english" on it.  A nickel may not work reliably, tho often you can move the slide piece on the back to make the accepting rules easier.  Guess it also depends on what parts you've been swapping onto the thing.

I sent you a PM, again I am trying to figure out which hopper I have. Thanks.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 06:29:16 PM
So, the top compartment has a plastic gear missing a tooth. The E.O.S. switch has broken leads.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 15, 2022, 07:33:52 PM
So, the top compartment has a plastic gear missing a tooth. The E.O.S. switch has broken leads.

that's right.  The missing tooth/"flat spot" prevents the unit from stepping up further than it's supposed to. 

the payout counter ratchet doesn't have a missing tooth because it needs to step around 720+ degrees (the ratchet has 100 teeth).  250 is about the max it can step tho, as the torsion spring will eventually wind tight enough to prevent further stepping.  Occasionally you'll find continuous steppers that don't reset ... they don't have the missing tooth or a torsion spring.

the EOS switch is used to increment a jackpot meter which you probably don't have.  Hardly anyone does and even the casinos rarely used them - they had their own procedures for accounting for hand pays.  The entire count unit is not needed for the game to function correctly.
 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 15, 2022, 10:49:10 PM
So, the top compartment has a plastic gear missing a tooth. The E.O.S. switch has broken leads.

that's right.  The missing tooth/"flat spot" prevents the unit from stepping up further than it's supposed to. 

the payout counter ratchet doesn't have a missing tooth because it needs to step around 720+ degrees (the ratchet has 100 teeth).  250 is about the max it can step tho, as the torsion spring will eventually wind tight enough to prevent further stepping.  Occasionally you'll find continuous steppers that don't reset ... they don't have the missing tooth or a torsion spring.

the EOS switch is used to increment a jackpot meter which you probably don't have.  Hardly anyone does and even the casinos rarely used them - they had their own procedures for accounting for hand pays.  The entire count unit is not needed for the game to function correctly.

So its normal missing a tooth.
Thanks that's great, one less thing to deal with.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 16, 2022, 08:00:24 AM
I just wanted everyone to know that wolftalk is a great asset to the slot machine community. I have a great desire to rebuild, restore, this Mint casino Bally slot machine 100% back to factory and wolftalk has the knowledge, the understanding, and patience to help me achieve my goal. Thanks!

  :applause: :applause:
  :applause: :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 16, 2022, 09:16:43 AM
to assist with your ocd, below is a marked up picture of your relays.

when you see switch blades bent, it's worth checking.  The factory made the switch stacks so straight new blades worked correctly ... they didn't have an army of switch adjusting gnomes running around bending blades :-)

in this case, the switch stack is missing the bottom wafer (red arrow).  There should be a thick wafer like the green arrow is pointing to.  If you have switch parts, add wafer(s) to raise the stack and readjust things so the switch blades aren't so bent.

'course, the switches probably work fine, so it's not necessary.  But if ya can't unsee the oops now it's been pointed out ...
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 16, 2022, 10:01:24 AM
to assist with your ocd, below is a marked up picture of your relays.

when you see switch blades bent, it's worth checking.  The factory made the switch stacks so straight new blades worked correctly ... they didn't have an army of switch adjusting gnomes running around bending blades :-)

in this case, the switch stack is missing the bottom wafer (red arrow).  There should be a thick wafer like the green arrow is pointing to.  If you have switch parts, add wafer(s) to raise the stack and readjust things so the switch blades aren't so bent.

'course, the switches probably work fine, so it's not necessary.  But if ya can't unsee the oops now it's been pointed out ...

Will fix it I have plenty of parts. Thanks, yes I'm proud of my ocd, (at least I'm not AOC).  :thank_you:

BTW I sent you a message about the wiper number.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 16, 2022, 07:13:01 PM
More work.
I connected the belly light wires with the same type of crimper. The tube light was replaced, and a couple of the screws are temporary until I get the new ones. I didn't have enough screws in the door.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 16, 2022, 07:19:00 PM
Up top, I cleaned and serviced everything. I replace the contacts that were damaged. I have one wire that I need to solder, I just want to make sure it goes in the spot.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 16, 2022, 07:24:02 PM
Right now everything inside the slot machine is cleaned serviced, and the top lights are replaced. The replacement top light bulbs a NOS GE made in the United States.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 16, 2022, 07:28:14 PM
I don't know what to do about the door lock. I have a bracket, and a solenoid, however they don't match up.  :Scratch-Head:

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on September 16, 2022, 08:52:23 PM
Miss read the previous post.

Wouldn’t be to concerned about having a electric door lock at this time.
Most machines don’t have them and if they do it is most likely disconnected.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 16, 2022, 11:00:07 PM
Minor modifications could possibly solve the situation.
Drill and tap or drill then attach with screws with nuts.

Knockers are not common to slot machines.
Most pinball machines have at least one.

Curious as to what it is associated with.

I was hoping to get the correct parts. The two wires are their, the bracket is their, but no lock part.
On my 1090 I sourced the correct parts from England.

Actually, the bracket if drilled, then would be tapped and flush screws with lock washers would be used. That's factory.
See #25 in the picture.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 08:17:48 AM
I'm heading to the reels next, what a armpit. It is dirty, just nasty grit and grime.
I removed some wanky piece of metal that was not factory. I also noticed that one meter was not Bally, thankfully I have another identical one in my parts drawer. I noticed the connections weren't Bally standard, I have replacement ones so no big deal.

So I'm getting started with the reels and the way I proceed is to dismantle small sections of the reel mechanism at a time clean, repair and service.
 :Scratch-Head: I have a new clock assembly if this one has major problems. I have put new bushings in these clock assembly so its no big deal.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 08:27:06 AM
On the reel mechanism, I will dismantle the unit, each reel will be cleaned, delicately, the steel parts can gets good scrubbing.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 17, 2022, 09:44:09 AM
On the reel mechanism, I will dismantle the unit, each reel will be cleaned, delicately, the steel parts can gets good scrubbing.

you can take the reels off the shaft and clean any old lubrication out of the shaft hole, but I wouldn't recommend taking each reel apart further than that. 

if you take the tapes off or remove the slotted index discs, you'll need to realign/remount everything properly and it's not worth the hassle.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 01:54:36 PM
On the reel mechanism, I will dismantle the unit, each reel will be cleaned, delicately, the steel parts can gets good scrubbing.

you can take the reels off the shaft and clean any old lubrication out of the shaft hole, but I wouldn't recommend taking each reel apart further than that. 

if you take the tapes off or remove the slotted index discs, you'll need to realign/remount everything properly and it's not worth the hassle.

Absolutely correct, I am only cleaning each part and not doing anything that would change the mechanism.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 02:43:45 PM
On the reel mechanism, I will dismantle the unit, each reel will be cleaned, delicately, the steel parts can gets good scrubbing.

you can take the reels off the shaft and clean any old lubrication out of the shaft hole, but I wouldn't recommend taking each reel apart further than that. 

if you take the tapes off or remove the slotted index discs, you'll need to realign/remount everything properly and it's not worth the hassle.


Here are the parts we talked about
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 02:52:15 PM
Miss read the previous post.

Wouldn’t be to concerned about having a electric door lock at this time.
Most machines don’t have them and if they do it is most likely disconnected.

I have to put everything back inside the slot machine from the factory, the electronic lock, the counters, every wire can't be spliced, new wires installed, down to the hopper cover, everything needs to be done.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 02:55:40 PM
On to the reels, I only remove and clean the parts, none of the alignment parts that run the wheels, getting them out of time is a disaster.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 02:58:33 PM
More reel work.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 03:01:58 PM
More reel work.
.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 03:04:31 PM
More reel work.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 06:08:44 PM
The electronic door lock. I was able to locate a plate for it in my junk bag. I had the plastic covers.  :applause:

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 06:20:33 PM
Now a the difficult part, the 110V power. The old wire was a mess, cracked, you name it, it was awful. So reading my electrical drawing until my eyes hurt, I believe that I have figured out the wires to a point.
The 110V leg  belongs on the 50V 8AMP lug, and the other belongs on the 120V 5AMP.
Now I have a red wire and a yellow wire next to this fuse block that came from their. That's the hic up. I am having a difficult time figuring out the exact location. Yellow is the common wire for the low voltage electrical.
Red is the issue.
I need more time to figure this out.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 06:23:55 PM
So its really doing excellent. A lot more work needed.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 17, 2022, 09:41:06 PM
Now a the difficult part, the 110V power. The old wire was a mess, cracked, you name it, it was awful. So reading my electrical drawing until my eyes hurt, I believe that I have figured out the wires to a point.
The 110V leg  belongs on the 50V 8AMP lug, and the other belongs on the 120V 5AMP.
Now I have a red wire and a yellow wire next to this fuse block that came from their. That's the hic up. I am having a difficult time figuring out the exact location. Yellow is the common wire for the low voltage electrical.
Red is the issue.
I need more time to figure this out.

don't plug in the game like that!  It's not right yet.

short answer:
1]  the black wire from your power cord going to the 120V fuse is correct (unless you have a power switch added to the game). 
2] the white wire from the power cord should connect to the red wire
3] the orange/red wire connects to the 50V fuse where you currently have the white power cord wire.


tmi
----
the other end of the orange/red wire goes to transformer lug 2 ... so it's a wire between lug 2 and the 50V fuse.

the white wire from your power cord is effectively tied to a red wire AND a black wire(s).  This weirdness in connecting different wire colors together is due to the transformer supporting 120, 220 and 240 volt mains/wall power, so the various wires connect to different places depending on what your input voltage is.  When you have 220/240V mains, the transformer itself steps it down to 120V to power the motors, override solenoid, delay relay, etc.

a common wiring is the red wire is attached to transformer lug 7, the black wire(s) are attached to transformer lug 5 and there's a bare jumper wire connecting lug 5 and 7 together.

below is the usual diagram that is oddly missing from the 809 schematics, but it's not literally showing the wires.  It's just saying the 120V power cord wires are eventually connecting to transformer lugs 1/3 and 5/7.       

post a pic of your transformer wiring if not sure, but it looks like red is on lug 7, two blacks are on lug 5 and the jumper is there, so that's correct at the transformer.

eventually bally made it easy and you just moved a connector between two molex plugs to configure the game for 120V or 220/240V.   The earlier games you had to change jumper wiring on the transformer and/or maybe move where the red wire attached to the transformer.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 17, 2022, 11:05:31 PM
Now a the difficult part, the 110V power. The old wire was a mess, cracked, you name it, it was awful. So reading my electrical drawing until my eyes hurt, I believe that I have figured out the wires to a point.
The 110V leg  belongs on the 50V 8AMP lug, and the other belongs on the 120V 5AMP.
Now I have a red wire and a yellow wire next to this fuse block that came from their. That's the hic up. I am having a difficult time figuring out the exact location. Yellow is the common wire for the low voltage electrical.
Red is the issue.
I need more time to figure this out.

don't plug in the game like that!  It's not right yet.

short answer:
1]  the black wire from your power cord going to the 120V fuse is correct (unless you have a power switch added to the game). 
2] the white wire from the power cord should connect to the red wire
3] the orange/red wire connects to the 50V fuse where you currently have the white power cord wire.


tmi
----
the other end of the orange/red wire goes to transformer lug 2 ... so it's a wire between lug 2 and the 50V fuse.

the white wire from your power cord is effectively tied to a red wire AND a black wire(s).  This weirdness in connecting different wire colors together is due to the transformer supporting 120, 220 and 240 volt mains/wall power, so the various wires connect to different places depending on what your input voltage is.  When you have 220/240V mains, the transformer itself steps it down to 120V to power the motors, override solenoid, delay relay, etc.

a common wiring is the red wire is attached to transformer lug 7, the black wire(s) are attached to transformer lug 5 and there's a bare jumper wire connecting lug 5 and 7 together.

below is the usual diagram that is oddly missing from the 809 schematics, but it's not literally showing the wires.  It's just saying the 120V power cord wires are eventually connecting to transformer lugs 1/3 and 5/7.       

post a pic of your transformer wiring if not sure, but it looks like red is on lug 7, two blacks are on lug 5 and the jumper is there, so that's correct at the transformer.

eventually bally made it easy and you just moved a connector between two molex plugs to configure the game for 120V or 220/240V.   The earlier games you had to change jumper wiring on the transformer and/or maybe move where the red wire attached to the transformer.

Thanks for straighten me out.

 :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 18, 2022, 09:25:29 AM
After making the adjustments to the wiring, this is what we came up with. I first removed all of the fuses, I soldered all of the connections, even the white wire to the red wire, the cap keeps everything safe.
You have to admit it looks awesome inside, everything is cleaned, repaired, soldered, wires are in alignment.  :applause:



Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 18, 2022, 09:33:49 AM
So, with the machine plugged in, I started putting fuses in one at a time until I was confident enough that it was clean of any shorts, wire issues, etc. What I came up with was the 110V reel light lit up. The bulbs lit up so that's great.
The belly light is not lit, I checked it out before I put it in the machine and they lit up, the volt meter shows zero volts, so now I need to trace some wire.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on September 18, 2022, 08:21:14 PM
Check the starter to see if it is seated properly.
Sometimes they will slip back and loose connection.
Same with the lamp if it was seated / locked in.
Assuming there’s power to the transformer.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 18, 2022, 11:47:54 PM
Check the starter to see if it is seated properly.
Sometimes they will slip back and loose connection.
Same with the lamp if it was seated / locked in.
Assuming there’s power to the transformer.

I checked, no power to the belly glass.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 19, 2022, 03:24:03 AM
Now a the difficult part, the 110V power. The old wire was a mess, cracked, you name it, it was awful. So reading my electrical drawing until my eyes hurt, I believe that I have figured out the wires to a point.
The 110V leg  belongs on the 50V 8AMP lug, and the other belongs on the 120V 5AMP.
Now I have a red wire and a yellow wire next to this fuse block that came from their. That's the hic up. I am having a difficult time figuring out the exact location. Yellow is the common wire for the low voltage electrical.
Red is the issue.
I need more time to figure this out.
don't plug in the game like that!  It's not right yet.

short answer:
1]  the black wire from your power cord going to the 120V fuse is correct (unless you have a power switch added to the game). 
2] the white wire from the power cord should connect to the red wire
3] the orange/red wire connects to the 50V fuse where you currently have the white power cord wire.


tmi
----
the other end of the orange/red wire goes to transformer lug 2 ... so it's a wire between lug 2 and the 50V fuse.

the white wire from your power cord is effectively tied to a red wire AND a black wire(s).  This weirdness in connecting different wire colors together is due to the transformer supporting 120, 220 and 240 volt mains/wall power, so the various wires connect to different places depending on what your input voltage is.  When you have 220/240V mains, the transformer itself steps it down to 120V to power the motors, override solenoid, delay relay, etc.

a common wiring is the red wire is attached to transformer lug 7, the black wire(s) are attached to transformer lug 5 and there's a bare jumper wire connecting lug 5 and 7 together.

below is the usual diagram that is oddly missing from the 809 schematics, but it's not literally showing the wires.  It's just saying the 120V power cord wires are eventually connecting to transformer lugs 1/3 and 5/7.       

post a pic of your transformer wiring if not sure, but it looks like red is on lug 7, two blacks are on lug 5 and the jumper is there, so that's correct at the transformer.

eventually bally made it easy and you just moved a connector between two molex plugs to configure the game for 120V or 220/240V.   The earlier games you had to change jumper wiring on the transformer and/or maybe move where the red wire attached to the transformer.

Everything is OK. I followed your instructions and now were lit up. Thanks
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 19, 2022, 03:26:11 PM
I need to figure out what coin this disk assembly takes. I have no idea what it is, however M-645-118 is the contact plate.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 19, 2022, 03:28:08 PM
I got the wiring diagram in today, put it up in the garage, this makes it so much easier.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 19, 2022, 03:30:20 PM
The pay out counter Assembly is coming along.The coils are in place so I can assemble the payout counter. I have to read up and figure out the numbers.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 20, 2022, 12:26:15 PM
After further study with a nickel, I think its the correct size.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 20, 2022, 12:56:16 PM
maybe I'm interpreting the picture wrong, but it looks like the pinwheel/coin shelf disc was a nickel disc, but someone milled it for a larger coin diameter.

the edge of the coin should be sitting on the edge of the inner coin shelf disc, and the distance from the shelf disc to outer pinwheel disc for a nickel game is around 19mm.

your pic and mine are old style hoppers - the most obvious indication is the motor is off to the side and there's a wiffle ball arm in the scoop to detect the coin level.  The newer "snow" hopper had the motor directly behind pinwheel/coin shelf disc and no wiffle ball.  Another major difference on the snow hopper is the pinwheel and shelf disc are separate pieces, so if the pinwheel peg spacing is good enough, you could easily change the shelf disc for different coin diameters.  On the old style hopper, the pinwheel and shelf disc were one unit - probably milled from a single disc.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 20, 2022, 03:28:09 PM
maybe I'm interpreting the picture wrong, but it looks like the pinwheel/coin shelf disc was a nickel disc, but someone milled it for a larger coin diameter.

the edge of the coin should be sitting on the edge of the inner coin shelf disc, and the distance from the shelf disc to outer pinwheel disc for a nickel game is around 19mm.

your pic and mine are old style hoppers - the most obvious indication is the motor is off to the side and there's a wiffle ball arm in the scoop to detect the coin level.  The newer "snow" hopper had the motor directly behind pinwheel/coin shelf disc and no wiffle ball.  Another major difference on the snow hopper is the pinwheel and shelf disc are separate pieces, so if the pinwheel peg spacing is good enough, you could easily change the shelf disc for different coin diameters.  On the old style hopper, the pinwheel and shelf disc were one unit - probably milled from a single disc.


Thanks, I'm going to go and cry now.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 20, 2022, 03:32:14 PM
Well, more work is accomplished.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 20, 2022, 07:35:40 PM
I'm working on the wiring, I'm using a 30 pin connector which has more wiring, then I salvaged most of the correct wiring colors.

I still need:
2' green yellow wire
2' red gray wire
2' yellow black wire.


Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 21, 2022, 02:31:17 PM
if ya can't find the right wire colors, try and use wire colors that aren't used in the game ... purple or whatever.  Future people will know it's a substitution.

your hopper is mechanically stepped, so you need to find the pieces to make it electrically stepped. 

you could bodge it ... the goal is the roller pivot arm needs to operate a switch stack and be insulated from the switches. 

one hack way to do it is have your existing arm operate a microswitch and don't worry about the original redundant two-switch setup.  If you want the total out meter to work, you'd need to tie that in also ... I'd use a diode to do it tho.

you can also just add a stack of three switches that are N.O. and wire per the schematic.  Insulating your current arm from the switch blades is easy enough, mounting the switches is harder ... but you have to solve that no matter which way you do it.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 21, 2022, 04:26:50 PM
if ya can't find the right wire colors, try and use wire colors that aren't used in the game ... purple or whatever.  Future people will know it's a substitution.

your hopper is mechanically stepped, so you need to find the pieces to make it electrically stepped. 

you could bodge it ... the goal is the roller pivot arm needs to operate a switch stack and be insulated from the switches. 

one hack way to do it is have your existing arm operate a microswitch and don't worry about the original redundant two-switch setup.  If you want the total out meter to work, you'd need to tie that in also ... I'd use a diode to do it tho.

you can also just add a stack of three switches that are N.O. and wire per the schematic.  Insulating your current arm from the switch blades is easy enough, mounting the switches is harder ... but you have to solve that no matter which way you do it.

Thanks, but I'm going all of the way down to the correct screws and nuts.  :yes:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 22, 2022, 04:52:49 PM
Today was productive. I built a SW-010-102A. I took the mechanical switch and repurpose it. Using a photo of a electronic hopper, with the correct wires, I built it.
Then I found my Bally wire, I really thought that I had lost my wiring. When I was rebuilding the 1090, I came across a seller of Bally parts in Europe, what a find, a lot of small parts. So I'm using them  :dancing_2:
I finished the SW-010-102A
And I got a box of 809 Bally parts in the mail.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 22, 2022, 04:58:00 PM
A Bally parts box, I am excited!
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 22, 2022, 11:14:15 PM
More hopper progress.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 22, 2022, 11:16:33 PM
More hopper progress, this is the latest update of work. I've got some major work done.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 23, 2022, 07:30:58 AM
did the payout counter traces clean up ok ... no holes burnt thru?

did you take a pic of the back/wiring side of the disc?
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 23, 2022, 02:06:46 PM
did the payout counter traces clean up ok ... no holes burnt thru?

did you take a pic of the back/wiring side of the disc?

Cleaned up everything, got rid of the old wires, solder, then put everything together.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 23, 2022, 02:17:36 PM
did the payout counter traces clean up ok ... no holes burnt thru?

did you take a pic of the back/wiring side of the disc?

The wiring diagram that you provided, I added the numbers, letters for my reference.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 23, 2022, 05:08:52 PM
Santa Clause came today, and I hit pay dirt. Some of the hopper electronic stuff came in.  :mail_2:

A relay assembly, A pivot arm, are just a couple of things.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 24, 2022, 10:03:56 AM
The coin slot was in piss poor condition. I replaced it with one from the recent box in the mail. I sourced a 30 pin plug side panel for the hopper, then I installed the connector.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 25, 2022, 02:07:02 PM
Cleaning the reel assembly this is one grunge job.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 25, 2022, 02:09:10 PM
More reel mechanism photos.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 25, 2022, 02:10:37 PM
More reel mechanism photos.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 25, 2022, 08:32:10 PM
Still working on the reel mechanical assembly.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 25, 2022, 08:33:35 PM
More reel mechanism photos.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 25, 2022, 08:34:48 PM
More reel mechanism photos.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 26, 2022, 02:44:47 PM
Finishing up on the reel mechanism. What a lot of hard grease.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 26, 2022, 02:46:57 PM
Completed the reel mechanism. That was some ugly hard work.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 26, 2022, 02:48:57 PM
Now someone drilled a hole in this coin drop. I was very lucky to have one to replace it.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 27, 2022, 03:07:43 PM
Wiring, motor and hopper level.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 27, 2022, 03:12:44 PM
Payout unit step up.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 27, 2022, 03:15:36 PM
Payout counter.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 27, 2022, 03:44:35 PM
Reset coil .
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 27, 2022, 04:10:03 PM
This is a process of elimination. The wiring schematics call it a safety motor, the books call it a override solenoid link assembly. This is a 110V solenoid so I kinda narrowed down the part. The green wire goes to the delay relay, and that's about correct. 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 27, 2022, 07:01:35 PM
This is a process of elimination. The wiring schematics call it a safety motor, the books call it a override solenoid link assembly. This is a 110V solenoid so I kinda narrowed down the part. The green wire goes to the delay relay, and that's about correct.

oops.  The game has both, and you've got the wiring wrong.

first picture in post 134 is the override solenoid.  It should have black (80) and white/blue (52-2) wires on the terminals.  It's basically wired in parallel with the hopper motor, so sometimes you'll see jumper wires instead of the correct wire colors.  The old style hopper can't stop turning instantly when the power is removed, so the override solenoid is used to control a deflection plate.  The plate causes coins to redirect back into the hopper while the motor/pinwheel is coasting to a stop.

the safety motor is in the back of the cabinet behind a plate to the left of the hopper plug.  That's why green wire 40 is on the hopper plug.  The safety motor shuts down the entire game power if it detects the payout counter not stepping when the hopper motor is running.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 27, 2022, 08:24:12 PM
This is a process of elimination. The wiring schematics call it a safety motor, the books call it a override solenoid link assembly. This is a 110V solenoid so I kinda narrowed down the part. The green wire goes to the delay relay, and that's about correct.

oops.  The game has both, and you've got the wiring wrong.

first picture in post 134 is the override solenoid.  It should have black (80) and white/blue (52-2) wires on the terminals.  It's basically wired in parallel with the hopper motor, so sometimes you'll see jumper wires instead of the correct wire colors.  The old style hopper can't stop turning instantly when the power is removed, so the override solenoid is used to control a deflection plate.  The plate causes coins to redirect back into the hopper while the motor/pinwheel is coasting to a stop.

the safety motor is in the back of the cabinet behind a plate to the left of the hopper plug.  That's why green wire 40 is on the hopper plug.  The safety motor shuts down the entire game power if it detects the payout counter not stepping when the hopper motor is running.

Thanks will fix it.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 28, 2022, 01:50:19 PM
The override solenoid, corrected.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 28, 2022, 01:54:14 PM
Payout relay.
52-2 White-blue
50 White
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 28, 2022, 02:00:33 PM
Payout relay.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 28, 2022, 02:02:49 PM
Payout relay.
Somehow I had a mind fart. Brown 60 is what is the schematics, I put a brown white 65.

Their is a ton of wiring, it's difficult to keep it straight.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 28, 2022, 02:08:08 PM
I put extra wires on each wire I used in the Pay Out Relay since I don't know what wire I need to use on another part.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 28, 2022, 02:14:00 PM
The payout coil is rather complicated however I just take my time.

The issue I have is the 8200 1/2" watt resistor. I need to source.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 28, 2022, 02:31:40 PM
My next one is the set up arm switches. I'm still trying to figure it out on the wiring diagram.
Both are NO.

I think I figured it out. Both switches have to be wire # 93 and 98 to work either way.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 28, 2022, 09:02:45 PM
More wiring.

Pay out counter Step up arm.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 28, 2022, 09:06:43 PM
More wiring.

KK  pay out relay.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 29, 2022, 08:43:16 AM
there's supposed to be two switches in parallel on the payout relay for the 120V for the hopper motor/override solenoid.

usually solid bare wires were connected between two adjacent switches before the switch was installed into the game. 

in your case, add a couple bare wires to make wires 50 and 52-2 connect to the bottom switch also like in the pic below.

it was pretty common to see the harness wires attached to the bare wires in between the lugs, rather than attached to the lugs directly.  I'd disconnect your 50 and 52-2 wires, add bare wires, and reconnect 50 and 52-2 to the bottom lugs or the bare wires so they are further away from the top switch wiring.

in addition, the hopper motor/override solenoid contacts (red arrows) are usually high power tungsten.  Both tungsten contacts on each switch blade are the bigger flat "hockey puck" style.  Normal switch contacts have a flat contact and a smaller domed contact, but the flat contact is not tungsten and is a little smaller than a tungsten one.

if you have regular contacts on the 120V hopper switches, it'll still work, they'll just wear away faster from the normal arcing that occurs.

there's no rule where the double wires attach - manufacturing convenience and reducing wire length were the main factors.  In general tho, you don't want a bunch of double wires in the switch stacks as the bulk makes soldering the wires to the lugs awkward ... plus you're relying more on the insulating sleeve to make sure the wires don't short to adjacent wires. 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 29, 2022, 09:02:12 AM
More wiring.

Pay out counter Step up arm.

oops again :-)

the payout counter step-up arm switches are not connected in parallel ... two independent switches per below.  You have the 98 and 93 right (green highlight) but the other switch should be wired per the red highlight.

however, the count unit is only used to control meters which you may not have, so you could leave the count unit not working and either keep the switch wiring like you have it or cut the bare wire and leave one switch unused.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 29, 2022, 11:10:22 AM
there's supposed to be two switches in parallel on the payout relay for the 120V for the hopper motor/override solenoid.

usually solid bare wires were connected between two adjacent switches before the switch was installed into the game. 

in your case, add a couple bare wires to make wires 50 and 52-2 connect to the bottom switch also like in the pic below.

it was pretty common to see the harness wires attached to the bare wires in between the lugs, rather than attached to the lugs directly.  I'd disconnect your 50 and 52-2 wires, add bare wires, and reconnect 50 and 52-2 to the bottom lugs or the bare wires so they are further away from the top switch wiring.

in addition, the hopper motor/override solenoid contacts (red arrows) are usually high power tungsten.  Both tungsten contacts on each switch blade are the bigger flat "hockey puck" style.  Normal switch contacts have a flat contact and a smaller domed contact, but the flat contact is not tungsten and is a little smaller than a tungsten one.

if you have regular contacts on the 120V hopper switches, it'll still work, they'll just wear away faster from the normal arcing that occurs.

there's no rule where the double wires attach - manufacturing convenience and reducing wire length were the main factors.  In general tho, you don't want a bunch of double wires in the switch stacks as the bulk makes soldering the wires to the lugs awkward ... plus you're relying more on the insulating sleeve to make sure the wires don't short to adjacent wires.

 :thank_you:

I am thankful for your help.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 29, 2022, 11:11:19 AM
More wiring.

Pay out counter Step up arm.

oops again :-)

the payout counter step-up arm switches are not connected in parallel ... two independent switches per below.  You have the 98 and 93 right (green highlight) but the other switch should be wired per the red highlight.

however, the count unit is only used to control meters which you may not have, so you could leave the count unit not working and either keep the switch wiring like you have it or cut the bare wire and leave one switch unused.

Awesome, will get it done.  :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 29, 2022, 05:24:53 PM
Revised pay out counter wiring.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 29, 2022, 05:32:28 PM
Payout relay revised. Motor wiring.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 29, 2022, 11:55:47 PM
The reset pawl. It calls for two switches on the parts diagram, "NO". I can only locate one "RESET PAWL". So I don't know if this has a second "RESET PAWL" or not.
 :Scratch-Head: :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 30, 2022, 07:05:05 AM
The reset pawl. It calls for two switches on the parts diagram, "NO". I can only locate one "RESET PAWL". So I don't know if this has a second "RESET PAWL" or not.
 :Scratch-Head: :Scratch-Head:

yup.  Turns on the winner paid light. 

when the reset solenoid fires, the pawls are locked up away from the ratchet teeth and the reset pawl switch is held open.  That turns off the "winner paid" light.  When a payout happens, the pawls flop down on the ratchet teeth and the switch is closed.  The winner paid light then stays on until the payout counter is reset.

you need to attach your 48-1 and 91-2 wires to the rightmost (oops) leftmost switch in the picture.  The other switch isn't used on the 809.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 30, 2022, 02:42:54 PM
Thanks.  :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 30, 2022, 02:43:38 PM
More hopper wiring.
The reset pawl only needed one switch. I removed one of the switches.
Wolftalk has been a important part of the wiring the hopper correctly.

 

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 30, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
uh-oh ... you removed the wrong switch.

my wife has now explained to me how "right" and "left" work.   Apparently I shoulda said "you need to attach your 48-1 and 91-2 wires to the leftmost switch in the picture"

you need the switch to be open when the payout counter is reset, closed when the payout counter is stepped 1+ times.

sorry about that.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 30, 2022, 03:00:31 PM
This wiring is for the hopper SWS. I was trying to figure out what it the name was, Wolftalk was able to help me out.
The switches, brackets, are being mailed to me, so now I'm ready.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 30, 2022, 03:11:36 PM
uh-oh ... you removed the wrong switch.

my wife has now explained to me how "right" and "left" work.   Apparently I shoulda said "you need to attach your 48-1 and 91-2 wires to the leftmost switch in the picture"

you need the switch to be open when the payout counter is reset, closed when the payout counter is stepped 1+ times.

sorry about that.

Right now the switch is open when the pawl is reset, when you activate the reset pawl it closes the circuit.  :wave:
 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 30, 2022, 03:14:54 PM
Working on the delay relay.
I'm building it from scratch, really from scratch. I had to build the platform, switches, coil, you name it.

The wires are redundant, looped together. 

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 30, 2022, 03:33:01 PM
I finished up the step up arm switches, Wolftalk was great in getting the wires setup.  :cool_thumb_up:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 30, 2022, 07:27:36 PM
More wiring.
Payout relay is coming together. A few wires that still need to be figured out. This is a interesting Bally decal, with a Nevada stamp. The hopper core is a 1970 model.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 30, 2022, 07:30:08 PM
More photos.
Delay relay unit. Payout relay coil is coming together. The motor is hopefully in good shape. The delay relay circuit micro switch needs to be installed, however I have to source parts, two screws, bracket.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on September 30, 2022, 07:58:23 PM
looks like you have a diode on the payout relay ... it's supposed to be on the delay relay. 

there should also be a 47 ohm 1W resistor in series with the diode.

the typical installation had the resistor and diode hanging in air with insulation/sleeves on the legs to prevent shorts.

one coil lug has the black wire and - side of the capacitor - you have that right.

other coil lug has the + side of the cap and the banded end of the diode.  The unbanded end of the diode connects to the resistor and is often shrink-tubed, then the other side of the resistor connects to wire 90-1 on the delay relay switch.  Don't shrink tube the resistor itself as that reduces its ability to shed heat.

in other words, remove the gray wire from the coil lug to the switch blade and replace it with a diode and resistor in series ... or just disconnect/cut out part of the gray wire at the coil end and stick the resistor + diode in its place.  You can leave a chunk of gray wire going from the resistor to the switch so you don't need to redo the switch connection.

technically the capacitor should be 30 uF.  You have a 200 uF cap in there, but it will work ok.  The timeout will just take a little longer if there's a payout counter stepping issue.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on September 30, 2022, 11:23:28 PM
looks like you have a diode on the payout relay ... it's supposed to be on the delay relay. 

there should also be a 47 ohm 1W resistor in series with the diode.

the typical installation had the resistor and diode hanging in air with insulation/sleeves on the legs to prevent shorts.

one coil lug has the black wire and - side of the capacitor - you have that right.

other coil lug has the + side of the cap and the banded end of the diode.  The unbanded end of the diode connects to the resistor and is often shrink-tubed, then the other side of the resistor connects to wire 90-1 on the delay relay switch.  Don't shrink tube the resistor itself as that reduces its ability to shed head.

in other words, remove the gray wire from the coil lug to the switch blade and replace it with a diode and resistor in series ... or just disconnect/cut out part of the gray wire at the coil end and stick the resistor + diode in its place.  You can leave a chunk of gray wire going from the resistor to the switch so you don't need to redo the switch connection.

technically the capacitor should be 30 uF.  You have a 200 uF cap in there, but it will work ok.  The timeout will just take a little longer if there's a payout counter stepping issue.

 :yes: Will fix it, 30UF will order.

This is what I was patterning after thinking it was a delay relay that I was rebuilding from scratch, it was in terrible condition.   :thank_you:





Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 01, 2022, 02:20:24 PM
Ok, we have the meters wired up.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 01, 2022, 02:33:07 PM
Payout relay coming along, more wires.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 01, 2022, 02:34:58 PM
On to more good stuff. Plugs in the door replaced.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 01, 2022, 02:38:33 PM
Delay relay revision. Wolftalk was great in getting me straighten out. I have a lot of capacitors but none are correct, the one I need is on order. The old capacitor is probably dried out.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 01, 2022, 04:25:27 PM
I have this 36-1 wire, in the beau plug #7. I'm having trouble locating where it belongs.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 01, 2022, 04:29:56 PM
the diode is in backwards.  The banded end attaches to the coil.

the 100 ohm resistor may be too high - it will reduce current flow.  Whether it reduces it enough to make the cap not charge fast enough or the coil to not work right ... dunno.

if you have another 100 ohm resistor, you can put it in parallel to your existing one to make the combined resistance 50 ohms - that's close enough to the 47 ohm the circuit was designed for.

for wire 36-1, pull out the reel mech then use an ohmeter or continuity tester and confirm that 36-1 on the socket goes to the open at 4th switch on the side of the odds unit - it's a switch the peg on the ratchet opens when the odds unit is stepped up all the way.

if it is 36-1, you can ignore it ... it's not used for anything on the hopper.  Dunno why they ran it to the hopper ... none of the 809 schems show it used for anything on the hopper.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 01, 2022, 05:19:49 PM
the diode is in backwards.  The banded end attaches to the coil.

the 100 ohm resistor may be too high - it will reduce current flow.  Whether it reduces it enough to make the cap not charge fast enough or the coil to not work right ... dunno.

if you have another 100 ohm resistor, you can put it in parallel to your existing one to make the combined resistance 50 ohms - that's close enough to the 47 ohm the circuit was designed for.

for wire 36-1, pull out the reel mech then use an ohmeter or continuity tester and confirm that 36-1 on the socket goes to the open at 4th switch on the side of the odds unit - it's a switch the peg on the ratchet opens when the odds unit is stepped up all the way.

if it is 36-1, you can ignore it ... it's not used for anything on the hopper.  Dunno why they ran it to the hopper ... none of the 809 schems show it used for anything on the hopper.

Ill get it done.  :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 01, 2022, 05:48:30 PM
the diode is in backwards.  The banded end attaches to the coil.

the 100 ohm resistor may be too high - it will reduce current flow.  Whether it reduces it enough to make the cap not charge fast enough or the coil to not work right ... dunno.

if you have another 100 ohm resistor, you can put it in parallel to your existing one to make the combined resistance 50 ohms - that's close enough to the 47 ohm the circuit was designed for.

for wire 36-1, pull out the reel mech then use an ohmeter or continuity tester and confirm that 36-1 on the socket goes to the open at 4th switch on the side of the odds unit - it's a switch the peg on the ratchet opens when the odds unit is stepped up all the way.

if it is 36-1, you can ignore it ... it's not used for anything on the hopper.  Dunno why they ran it to the hopper ... none of the 809 schems show it used for anything on the hopper.

36-1 got it. Ordered up the part, I don't have it, I do have others.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 01, 2022, 08:08:52 PM
Cleaned up the reels. What a mess.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 01, 2022, 08:10:59 PM
Starting to take shape.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 02, 2022, 09:46:21 AM
you paid attention to the orientation of the slotted metal index disks, right?

the slots have to match the symbols on the reel tapes.

if ya weren't paying attention, there is a reference hole drilled in the disk.  The three pics below should explain how the reference hole corresponds to the top of a reel tape.

slot 1 is above the mounting screw that is clockwise from the reference hole.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 02, 2022, 02:08:15 PM
you paid attention to the orientation of the slotted metal index disks, right?

the slots have to match the symbols on the reel tapes.

if ya weren't paying attention, there is a reference hole drilled in the disk.  The three pics below should explain how the reference hole corresponds to the top of a reel tape.

slot 1 is above the mounting screw that is clockwise from the reference hole.

I mark each wheel to the reel to keep them correct. However, if some bozo screwed them up obviously I wouldn't have known until you showed me the alignment procedure. Thanks, I will go and check every reel for proper positioning.

 :thank_you: :thank_you: :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 02, 2022, 02:11:42 PM
I was working on the carriage and wiper assembly.
The other one was difficult to work with, the switch, stop, were not aligning up, and since I have three of these parts, I put this assembly on, and the problems are resolved.I believe it is adjusted behind the 3 on the contact plate, as well as the other two sets of contacts on the carriage.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 02, 2022, 02:18:35 PM
The reels are a spinning! Before cleaning they were pretty slow as snot. On the steel I used some major cleaning solution, on the reel strips, I spent a lot of time cleaning them, being careful with them.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 02, 2022, 02:25:10 PM
I was blessed to have a father in law who was a pack rat. I have his OLD tools, electronics, a whole lot of OLD soldering guns, electrical tools, testers, etc.

Did I say OLD, which is a better made tool, and so life is awesome.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 02, 2022, 03:40:33 PM
Reel alignment. Me thinks it's not correct. The old photo of the reel doesn't match up. More investigation is required here, the problems need to be corrected
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 02, 2022, 04:03:01 PM
you paid attention to the orientation of the slotted metal index disks, right?

the slots have to match the symbols on the reel tapes.

if ya weren't paying attention, there is a reference hole drilled in the disk.  The three pics below should explain how the reference hole corresponds to the top of a reel tape.

slot 1 is above the mounting screw that is clockwise from the reference hole.


Just pulled them down to examine them. This is exactly what they were when I pulled them.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 02, 2022, 05:34:22 PM
I was working on the carriage and wiper assembly.
The other one was difficult to work with, the switch, stop, were not aligning up, and since I have three of these parts, I put this assembly on, and the problems are resolved.I believe it is adjusted behind the 3 on the contact plate, as well as the other two sets of contacts on the carriage.

at payout counter reset, the wiper contacts need to be sitting on the left end of the traces.  Payout ends when the wipers step off the right end of the active payout trace, so if the wipers aren't on the trace to begin with, you won't get any payout.

the wipers should step off the end of the trace at the step indicated by the number on the trace.  e.g. for the 10 trace, the wipers are on the right end of the trace after 9 steps, and off the end of the trace on the 10th step. 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 02, 2022, 06:03:20 PM
Reel alignment. Me thinks it's not correct. The old photo of the reel doesn't match up. More investigation is required here, the problems need to be corrected

hard to say from the pics ... ya have to count symbols from the index slot 1 position.  Note the 929 index disc and reel pictures I posted won't match your game wrt the slot depths. 

in other words, when the reel is indexed in slot 1, the symbol on the payline is nearly on the opposite side of the reel.  When reel 1 is indexed in slot 1,  an OR should be on the payline .. next symbols going down are PL, CH, BA ...

It looks like you have some tape modifications, so the easiest thing is put the index arm into slot 1 on each reel then see what symbol is on the center payline ... it should be the symbol on the top of the tape, but maybe not if someone swapped tapes.   Do all three reels and take a picture with the door open and closed and we can compare to documentation.

the three index discs should be MT-3-S-ANY-[1,2,3] for the 809-ZN.  The reel tapes are M-220-[1362, 1363, 1364] ... but those numbers are printed on the underlapped part of the tape where you can't see without removing the top of the tape.  I wouldn't do that ... easier to write down the 20 symbols in order from the top of the tape going around or just take a video when spinning the reels slowly.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 02, 2022, 07:20:10 PM
Reel alignment. Me thinks it's not correct. The old photo of the reel doesn't match up. More investigation is required here, the problems need to be corrected

hard to say from the pics ... ya have to count symbols from the index slot 1 position.  Note the 929 index disc and reel pictures I posted won't match your game wrt the slot depths. 

in other words, when the reel is indexed in slot 1, the symbol on the payline is nearly on the opposite side of the reel.  When reel 1 is indexed in slot 1,  an OR should be on the payline .. next symbols going down are PL, CH, BA ...

It looks like you have some tape modifications, so the easiest thing is put the index arm into slot 1 on each reel then see what symbol is on the center payline ... it should be the symbol on the top of the tape, but maybe not if someone swapped tapes.   Do all three reels and take a picture with the door open and closed and we can compare to documentation.

the three index discs should be MT-3-S-ANY-[1,2,3] for the 809-ZN.  The reel tapes are M-220-[1362, 1363, 1364] ... but those numbers are printed on the underlapped part of the tape where you can't see without removing the top of the tape.  I wouldn't do that ... easier to write down the 20 symbols in order from the top of the tape going around or just take a video when spinning the reels slowly.

After you said something about the reels, a light bulb went on in my head, I forgot my 1090 was not correct with the position also, so I pulled my Bally book and had a  :Scratch-Head: moment. My notes were their.
I then took it apart and all three were not correct. I located the jackpot spots, marked them, assembled them, and it's slick.

And, most importantly, don't do anything to modify the machine permanently, I was trying to figure why the pay line was off, and with Wolftalk helping me understand the reel alignment, the pay line alignment is great, just like my 1090, in my notes it has something about the reel alignment.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 02, 2022, 07:25:51 PM
I checked the wiper position and the contact plate, it aligns up perfectly.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 02, 2022, 07:33:53 PM
I was working on the carriage and wiper assembly.
The other one was difficult to work with, the switch, stop, were not aligning up, and since I have three of these parts, I put this assembly on, and the problems are resolved.I believe it is adjusted behind the 3 on the contact plate, as well as the other two sets of contacts on the carriage.

at payout counter reset, the wiper contacts need to be sitting on the left end of the traces.  Payout ends when the wipers step off the right end of the active payout trace, so if the wipers aren't on the trace to begin with, you won't get any payout.

the wipers should step off the end of the trace at the step indicated by the number on the trace.  e.g. for the 10 trace, the wipers are on the right end of the trace after 9 steps, and off the end of the trace on the 10th step.

So I need to move it to the right a bit onto the trace.   :yes:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 03, 2022, 05:29:51 AM
assuming ya didn't do anything on the ratchet side to affect where the wipers are, two things control the wiper location at reset:

1] the zero stop bumper

this is the usual one.  If it's the old style eccentric disc, you loosen and spin it.  The newer style is a rubber "eraser tip" that you screw up/down.  If the eraser tip part is damaged, you can literally glue in a pencil eraser.

adjusting the zero stop bumper also affects where the ratchet teeth are at reset, so you need to make sure the first step of the unit where the ratchets are falling down on the teeth only grabs one tooth.  If you payout is short by 1, then the first step grabbing two teeth could be the problem.  Also note the coil will yank in the plunger a lot harder than you do pushing i manually, so it's possible for the unit to step ok when using your finger, but it grabs two teeth when the coil does it.

if you wind up grabbing two teeth, you have to adjust the zero stop bumper is that doesn't happen.  Then ....

2] loosen the contact plate and twist it.

there's enough slop in the mounting screw holes to allow the plate the be cocked.  It's normal for step unit contact plates to not be perfectly aligned squarely with the unit frame.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 03, 2022, 06:42:50 AM
assuming ya didn't do anything on the ratchet side to affect where the wipers are, two things control the wiper location at reset:

1] the zero stop bumper

this is the usual one.  If it's the old style eccentric disc, you loosen and spin it.  The newer style is a rubber "eraser tip" that you screw up/down.  If the eraser tip part is damaged, you can literally glue in a pencil eraser.

adjusting the zero stop bumper also affects where the ratchet teeth are at reset, so you need to make sure the first step of the unit where the ratchets are falling down on the teeth only grabs one tooth.  If you payout is short by 1, then the first step grabbing two teeth could be the problem.  Also note the coil will yank in the plunger a lot harder than you do pushing i manually, so it's possible for the unit to step ok when using your finger, but it grabs two teeth when the coil does it.

if you wind up grabbing two teeth, you have to adjust the zero stop bumper is that doesn't happen.  Then ....

2] loosen the contact plate and twist it.

there's enough slop in the mounting screw holes to allow the plate the be cocked.  It's normal for step unit contact plates to not be perfectly aligned squarely with the unit frame.

I will adjust it with the zero stop bumper, thanks, were coming along.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 03, 2022, 08:06:19 PM
Well, more parts arrived!
The 5¢ disc assembly came in. What a nice piece of work. I checked out the hopper by hand and it is really smooth.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 03, 2022, 08:08:20 PM
The disc assembly and the 5¢ knife is awesome.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 03, 2022, 08:12:39 PM
Moving along.
The hopper SWS

OK I KNOW I MADE A MISTAKE, I'LL LOOK AND SEE WHAT HAPPENED!  :duh:
I have the drawing attached of what it should be wired.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 03, 2022, 08:17:44 PM
Still working on the delay relay assembly. The wires are run, now I need the capacitor, and something else.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 03, 2022, 08:20:41 PM
I received the rocker arm switch cover.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 03, 2022, 08:25:11 PM
This cover was part of the hopper, however I know what to do with it.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 03, 2022, 08:27:16 PM
I would think with all of the fuses my father in law had, I'd come up with extra fuses, nope, none, had to order them just like my 1090 slot machine.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 03, 2022, 08:28:46 PM
I'm still trying to source a part, and I may have to fabricate it.

Found it!
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 04, 2022, 09:28:18 AM
I resolved the issue with the hopper SWS switch. The smaller cover is working fine, the larger cover is not going to work. Still I am just pleased as snot to have help building the hopper. The hopper SWS switch was complete when I received it, I was concerned about the stop bracket, however it was fine.

Since I am basically building this hopper things happen with parts, and you resolve the problems one at a time..
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 04, 2022, 09:34:43 AM
I still have some parts needed.

Motor gear.
Delay relay circuit switch assembly.
Relay assembly parts.
Scoop cover.

Then the really hard part, function testing. I have to pull out my beuplug extension cord to run the hopper. :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 04, 2022, 12:09:28 PM
if you have - or make - extension cables for the plugs, that makes life easier.   However, there's not a lot on the hopper, so it's not really necessary. 

if you blow a fuse tho, the most useful thing is a small circuit breaker so you don't go broke buying fuses until you find the issue.

suggest you tape up or shrink tube  the join (red arrow).  I don't think it can touch anything, but you don't want it to.

the switch gap (yellow arrow) looks large.  When testing switch operation, push down the armature plate (green arrow), not the brown switch lifter.  Switch travel is higher than normal if you push on the lifter.   You're familiar with switch adjust and overtravel, right?

I don't recall seeing the cover over the hopper switches before.  I'd leave it off ... at least until you make sure everything is working.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 04, 2022, 04:05:02 PM
if you have - or make - extension cables for the blugs, that makes life easier.   However, there's not a lot on the hopper, so it's not really necessary. 

if you blow a fuse tho, the most useful thing is a small circuit breaker so you don't go broke buying fuses until you find the issue.

suggest you tape up or shrinkwrap  the join (red arrow).  I don't think it can touch anything, but you don't want it to.

the switch gap (yellow arrow) looks large.  When testing switch operation, push down the armature plate (green arrow), not the brown switch lifter.  Switch travel is higher than normal if you push on the lifter.   You're familiar with switch adjust and overtravel, right?

I don't recall seeing the cover over the hopper switches before.  I'd leave it off ... at least until you make sure everything is working.

Yes your correct, more surgery required. I'll get to it.
The beau plug is something that I have for easier diagnostic work.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 04, 2022, 05:01:44 PM
This hopper cover.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 04, 2022, 11:01:58 PM
Usually I try and make sure the switches are correct, the payout switch obviously needs a shim to get it straight and not tweaked.  :cool_thumb_up:

If I have a mistake, bringing it up to my attention is awesome, thanks.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 05, 2022, 07:45:12 PM
More Work.

Door lock is looking awesome.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 05, 2022, 07:52:20 PM
Hopper checking all of the switches, open, close, making sure the switches are working correctly.
I repaired the switch problem.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 05, 2022, 08:04:16 PM
I'm having a issue with the plugs after I transferred the wires the problem with connections, I need to work on the fingers on each connector.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 05, 2022, 08:10:55 PM
The Beau plug extension is connected.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 05, 2022, 08:12:29 PM
Checking out the electronics. The meters, door, everything.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 06, 2022, 12:21:23 PM
The plug in connectors at the door had some issues. The contacts inside of the plugs were not making contact with each other. I was able to fabricate a tool to reach inside of the contact and spread the contact fully.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 06, 2022, 12:30:10 PM
I'm having to figure out the belly glass lighting issue. I have a test cord for the belly light and it works plugged directly into a power source. In the door, the belly glass will not light. Wire checks out at the door plug, keep on searching for the solution.

I installed a Molex connector for easier repairs, diagnostic. 

The more I think about this the more I am convinced it has something to do with the extra wires that the Mint Casino installed. I thought that I cleaned the wiring from the addition, however I probably know where to look.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 06, 2022, 12:38:02 PM
Talking to Wolftalk, I have a modification to do on the payout disc, the "20" wire is not used, I'm moving the #23 wire to the "50".

He's very up to date on this Bally slot machine wiring, I'm very fortunate to have someone who knows these slot machines, and helps me out with the wiring.  :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 07, 2022, 09:47:23 AM
The belly light 110V black wire going to the reel light ballast inside of the cabinet was the problem, after I sourced the wire, replaced the wire at the plug, now it lights up and no more issues.  :yes:

These slot machines can't be stored in a climate like a shed, without any heat. It causes damage to the parts, electrical system, and more. I have had only major issues with the grease that became hardened like a rock, contacts were dirty, new bulbs, lights, fuses. The reels were not aligned, they are original Mint Casino reels. The extra Mint Casino wiring was not a problem, the factory wiring is by all accounts is in great condition, the burnt, broken wires were replaced correctly.

The hopper is the only major issue, not having one and I am hoping that the restoration, function of the hopper will be uneventful.

More work ahead........
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 07, 2022, 12:23:22 PM
The plug in connectors at the door had some issues. The contacts inside of the plugs were not making contact with each other. I was able to fabricate a tool to reach inside of the contact and spread the contact fully.

I don't recall seeing that style of connector pin used for wire-to-wire connections.  That looks like a pin intended to mate to a square header pin.  Wire-to-wire are typically round "bullet" style.

do you have part numbers / spec for the pins and connector housings that you used?
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 07, 2022, 01:32:18 PM
The #23 wire was moved from the "20" location to the "50" location on the disk.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 07, 2022, 01:47:53 PM
The plug in connectors at the door had some issues. The contacts inside of the plugs were not making contact with each other. I was able to fabricate a tool to reach inside of the contact and spread the contact fully.

I don't recall seeing that style of connector pin used for wire-to-wire connections.  That looks like a pin intended to mate to a square header pin.  Wire-to-wire are typically round "bullet" style.

do you have part numbers / spec for the pins and connector housings that you used?

The wiring plugs is what came with the slot machine, I ended up not replacing them. When I asked for a replacement used plug the same connectors with wires came with the plug.

I think Mint Casino had some "special" wiring going on. I am not going to do anything, the door is functioning "normal" everything so far is working. I'm almost 100% positive that this slot machine wasn't monkey with. The smoke soot matched up everything. I think the previous owners couldn't understand the slot machine and stuck it in a corrner. The only thing was the reels were not correct, but they were smoke on them.


Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 07, 2022, 07:03:52 PM
as my wife will tell ya, as soon as I say "I don't recall" or "if I recall", mortgage your house and bet it all that I'm wrong :-)

I gotta find out what connector that is.  I assume amphenol made it.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 07, 2022, 10:55:53 PM
as my wife will tell ya, as soon as I say "I don't recall" or "if I recall", mortgage your house and bet it all that I'm wrong :-)

I gotta find out what connector that is.  I assume amphenol made it.

I still have plenty of faith this slot machine will be running again.  :1:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 08, 2022, 08:50:12 AM
This is the only thing I found that barely resembles the door plug.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 08, 2022, 12:54:47 PM
Just to let everyone know where I am sourcing parts from. I have been ordering small parts at a time for a reason, my wife doesn't pick up on small orders, only large orders. So I am essentially keeping the parts under the radar, and we're cool.  :yes:

And a plug for my source of parts, he's really professional, runs a well organized supply business, and he's filled my request every time, no issues at all.  I'm not just getting the slot machine running again, I am basically putting everything missing back into the slot machine from the factory down to the third meter on the deck.

When you clean every part, remove any hardened grease, clean the smelly cabinet, it will run like a bat out of hell. The reels alone spin like a top after cleaning, the reel mechanism after cleaning just zooms. The handle release mechanism after cleaning every part is a smooth pull. So if you really want a slot machine be prepared to get your hands dirty.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 08, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
 :mail_2: More parts has arrived!

Working on the delay relay circuit. I got it together finally. The parts took time to get here, which is not a problem.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 08, 2022, 06:47:05 PM
I have to get the motor gear, it's kinda funny that these motors are still running after all of this time.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 08, 2022, 06:49:48 PM
I'm still fussing over everything, making sure everything is functioning properly.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 08, 2022, 06:54:03 PM
Installed the delay relay circuit. The switch, bracket, screws, are really a PITA sourcing, then when I received it in the mail the seller threw in some extra parts. Parts I can use on other areas of the slot machine.  :cool_thumb_up:

They must think I'm crazy building a hopper, and feeling sorry for me.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 08, 2022, 06:58:15 PM
As of right now, I am needing a meter on the deck (I found the wires), the gear for the motor, and the hopper cover.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 09, 2022, 06:19:41 PM
your hopper motor is the newer style with a brake.  The white plastic thing stops the rotor from spinning when the power cuts off and more-or-less instantly stops the pinwheel from turning.

with that style motor you don't need the override solenoid, but it won't hurt to have both.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 09, 2022, 07:24:01 PM
your hopper motor is the newer style with a brake.  The white plastic thing stops the rotor from spinning when the power cuts off and more-or-less instantly stops the pinwheel from turning.

with that style motor you don't need the override solenoid, but it won't hurt to have both.

Will leave it as it is, nice to know that's a more modern motor. Now I need to see if it runs, and that won't be for awhile. I still need the gear and pin.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 10, 2022, 04:09:54 PM
Really, really great news. I was told the 809-ZZN hopper cover is available, that's awesome news.  :applause:

My 1090-29 hopper cover was nearly impossible to source. These hopper covers were removed by the casino's and tossed, so it's great to source them out.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on October 10, 2022, 05:11:48 PM
Your right, 95% of the machines don’t have hopper or payout covers.
To much of a hassle when working on a machine.

If you know someone in the outdoor sign business.
Or have access to a metal brake, it would be easy to reproduce a cover.
Probably 22 or 24 gauge paint lock sheet metal would work.
Prototype pattern would be a great help for the fabricator.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 10, 2022, 05:36:13 PM
Your right, 95% of the machines don’t have hopper or payout covers.
To much of a hassle when working on a machine.

If you know someone in the outdoor sign business.
Or have access to a metal brake, it would be easy to reproduce a cover.
Probably 22 or 24 gauge paint lock sheet metal would work.
Prototype pattern would be a great help for the fabricator.

I've been fabricating all of my adult life (welding, woodworking, automotive, steel, house renovation, aluminum, etc.), and a cover is easy peasy, however I am restoring this to factory as much as I possibly can, recreating parts would be a last ditch alternative. One example is scrounging around my Bally wire pile looking for the correct wiring code for the hopper. Talk about PITA, that was really, really difficult to locate the correct wires. I had to order two random Bally wiring harness just to find enough of the 52 wire. I still have a long way to go in finishing up the 809-ZZN.

My 1090-29 is 100% Bally parts.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 10, 2022, 05:52:18 PM
It's not about what the slot machine can do without, its about a vintage slot machine being period correct for 1970's. Everything need to be in place, everything needs to be void of butchered wires, screws, holes need filled, cabinet needs to be repaired, glass needs to be correct free from damage.

This is my 1090-29 hopper, a example of a complete hopper, everything is in place. Really awesome!
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 10, 2022, 07:29:42 PM
In reviewing the 1090-29 I was interested in the "Call For Attention" switch. The wire's attached to the switch are yellow and Orange-black.

On the 809-ZZN the yellow is cut, and a ground wire is in place. I knew something wasn't correct so I need to figure out the issue.

So I found out that the 83-2 in the 809-ZZN is the tower light wire in the door. I think were on the right track.



Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: slcjeeper on October 10, 2022, 10:06:11 PM
As of right now, I am needing a meter on the deck (I found the wires), the gear for the motor, and the hopper cover.

If you’re looking for the curved front meter, Check with Monti at Monti’s Slots. I got several NOS from him last year. Montislots@thegrid.net
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 11, 2022, 06:14:54 AM
As of right now, I am needing a meter on the deck (I found the wires), the gear for the motor, and the hopper cover.

If you’re looking for the curved front meter, Check with Monti at Monti’s Slots. I got several NOS from him last year. Montislots@thegrid.net

See Reply #218.
Everything must be old and the grunge look.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 11, 2022, 08:21:06 AM
After I did the research, I was able to reconnect the wires. The ohm meter has indicated the wiring is OK, no problems.

Seems like you are always ferreting out issues when restoring a slot machine. I have a system of checking out the wiring harness for stray wires. So far I have the deck meter reestablished, the tower light, A burnt wire, some problems with the fuse wires, all have been resolved.

Its still it's in much better shape than my 1090-29 when I first got it.  :yes:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 11, 2022, 06:10:54 PM
Your right, 95% of the machines don’t have hopper or payout covers.

I've been fabricating all of my adult life (welding, woodworking, automotive, steel, house renovation, aluminum, etc.), and a cover is easy peasy, however I am restoring this to factory as much as I possibly can, recreating parts would be a last ditch alternative. One example is scrounging around my Bally wire pile looking for the correct wiring code for the hopper. Talk about PITA, that was really, really difficult to locate the correct wires. I had to order two random Bally wiring harness just to find enough of the 52 wire. I still have a long way to go in finishing up the 809-ZZN.

a wiring harness from a 1980's +/- a few years bally pinball machine is the same wire.  You'd get much longer wires :-)



Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 11, 2022, 07:17:49 PM
Your right, 95% of the machines don’t have hopper or payout covers.

I've been fabricating all of my adult life (welding, woodworking, automotive, steel, house renovation, aluminum, etc.), and a cover is easy peasy, however I am restoring this to factory as much as I possibly can, recreating parts would be a last ditch alternative. One example is scrounging around my Bally wire pile looking for the correct wiring code for the hopper. Talk about PITA, that was really, really difficult to locate the correct wires. I had to order two random Bally wiring harness just to find enough of the 52 wire. I still have a long way to go in finishing up the 809-ZZN.

a wiring harness from a 1980's +/- a few years bally pinball machine is the same wire.  You'd get much longer wires :-)

I acquired some pinball wiring for my 1090 slot machine and I have been sifting through it all along the hopper restoration. Along with the wires, I had a lot of pin ball switches that worked well in the slot machine, cannibalize rebuild.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 11, 2022, 07:19:21 PM
I assembled the fuse resetting wire harness.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 11, 2022, 07:21:29 PM
The hopper restoration is coming along, it fits in the slot machine. Not much room inside the cabinet.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 11, 2022, 07:28:44 PM
I figured out that the winner switch wires were not correct they were dragging on the base of the hopper. I took it out and put a different setup.
Actually, I think I am getting better building the switches, I have a lot of them that I cannibalize.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 11, 2022, 07:31:50 PM
I'm still working on the wiring harness, sorting out some gremlins.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 12, 2022, 11:12:06 AM
You would think that I could rebuild a few slot machines, let alone build a hopper, with the parts that I have in my shop. This is just a handful of parts.  :rotfl:
I can't imagine why anyone would destroy a disc assembly by changing the coin on it, there are other dis assembly that haven't been cut up. This is my second one I have had, and I just pitch them in the trash since we don't have a clue about how accurate it is.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 12, 2022, 11:15:22 AM
For some people who know what this tag above information plate is, please let me know. Thanks.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 12, 2022, 05:13:20 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would destroy a disc assembly by changing the coin on it, there are other dis assembly that haven't been cut up.

if you have a lathe, cutting a disc for a larger diameter coin is cheaper than sourcing the correct disc ... if it's even possible to find one. 

the diameter doesn't have to be precise ... the coin just needs to stick up above the rim enough for the coin out roller to travel enough to operate the switches or step-up mechanism, and the roller height is adjustable.

the tag above the serial/model number plate is a union label.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 12, 2022, 05:57:04 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would destroy a disc assembly by changing the coin on it, there are other dis assembly that haven't been cut up.

if you have a lathe, cutting a disc for a larger diameter coin is cheaper than sourcing the correct disc ... if it's even possible to find one. 

the diameter doesn't have to be precise ... the coin just needs to stick up above the rim enough for the coin out roller to travel enough to operate the switches or step-up mechanism, and the roller height is adjustable.

the tag above the serial/model number plate is a union label.

Well, anyone want a 50¢ disk  :rotfl:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 12, 2022, 06:01:33 PM
Today we're checking out coils, replacing a couple of toasted coils, the ohm meter picked up zero. Then I was checking out for broken wires, its a whole lot of work. I still have a lot of work to do, but another day is coming.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 13, 2022, 08:23:51 AM
Top unit is dead. I figured out that the plug was not making contact when plugged in, first is cleaning the plug, second will be replacing it, worst case scenario.
One coil is weak I have a Bally original coil., the light sockets need cleaning, they are funky ones. I already have serviced this, obviously not as good as I should have.

The rest of the coils are working, with a very strong reaction.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 13, 2022, 08:48:43 AM
I've been reading about the #55 bulbs in the upper unit. The issue is that they a are loosely goosey after I replaced them. I really don't know how to proceed, I've read the barb needs to be tapped lightly in the light socket with a wood dowel, and that sounds barbaric. Do they need more cleaning, it's A unusual setup.

I swiped a photo on the internet of a close-up.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 13, 2022, 11:25:37 AM
I found replacement sockets, will make it easier to keep the bulbs tight, in place.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on October 13, 2022, 02:43:33 PM
Think the original sockets were convenient for installing in a limited space.
Getting the center barb in the right position is a big factor.

Regarding the actual attachment barb.

Inserting a tooth pick with glue on the end will take up space in oversized holes.
Or slightly bending the barb to penetrate the wood at a different angle sometimes helps.
Also seen small U nails / staples holding sockets in place.

Possibly add a couple of drops of crazy glue during and after reinstalling the socket.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 13, 2022, 03:59:20 PM
New sockets are on order, I am keeping the wiring setup exactly, using the old wires, everything. Those were worn out, A lot of slop inside the socket, the barb was missing, so it was not going to get any more life, it did its job.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 13, 2022, 04:04:20 PM
david already covered the mounting issues ... and yeah, whacking the sockets in with a punch or similar is how it was done.

the usual problem with the flat sockets is the center barb has bent back some and the lamp is a little loose in the socket.

the solution - with power to the socket off - is insert a small screwdriver from the front and lever the tab up until the tip pretty much touches the barrel/wall.  When you remove the screwdriver, the barb will spring back a lot but will still be bent more forward than it was.  Should be good for a lot more years.  If the barb snaps off, it was no good anyway.

a different solution from the pinball world is these:

   https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-bally-stern-insert-led-pcb.html (https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-bally-stern-insert-led-pcb.html)

however, they are made to illuminate playfield inserts.  On those, the distance from the led to the insert is about the same as the lamp-to-insert distance.  If you use one of the boards for a lamp that poked thru a hole in wood, the led may be too far away from the glass to light it well.

I think the pacific pinball museum just ordered a batch of the boards, so I'll give it a try and see.

'course, these days a lot of people toss the #55/44/47 lamps and replace them with leds.  A lot cooler and less power, so the glass ink is happy.   You still have to deal with socket issues tho.
 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 13, 2022, 04:09:24 PM
Working on the switches, they are doing awesome, checking out the wiring, looking for problem wires. After replacing the one coils/solenoid, every coils/solenoid is working strong 100% in the upper unit.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 13, 2022, 04:13:26 PM
david already covered the mounting issues ... and yeah, whacking the sockets in with a punch or similar is how it was done.

the usual problem with the flat sockets is the center barb has bent back some and the lamp is a little loose in the socket.

the solution - with power to the socket off - is insert a small screwdriver from the front and lever the tab up until the tip pretty much touches the barrel/wall.  When you remove the screwdriver, the barb will spring back a lot but will still be bent more forward than it was.  Should be good for a lot more years.  If the barb snaps off, it was no good anyway.

a different solution from the pinball world is these:

   https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-bally-stern-insert-led-pcb.html (https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-bally-stern-insert-led-pcb.html)

however, they are made to illuminate playfield inserts.  On those, the distance from the led to the insert is about the same as the lamp-to-insert distance.  If you use one of the boards for a lamp that poked thru a hole in wood, the led may be too far away from the glass to light it well.

I think the pacific pinball museum just ordered a batch of the boards, so I'll give it a try and see.

'course, these days a lot of people toss the #55/44/47 lamps and replace them with leds.  A lot cooler and less power, so the glass ink is happy.   You still have to deal with socket issues tho.

Tits, barbs were mostly toast. This machine has a lot of wear and tear, a example is the pull assembly, has some heavy wear on the parts.. But I am pressing onward and upward.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 13, 2022, 04:55:22 PM
Testing the coils/solenoid on the hopper, they are in good shape, firing, motor, etc.
I had a loose wire inside the slot machine, and a crossed wire, talk about a crazy hopper, everything is good.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 14, 2022, 01:35:23 PM
This sucks a nickel shortage.  :soapbox_3:

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: rdaniel on October 14, 2022, 03:33:46 PM
Ask your local bank if they can assist with the nickel issues.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 14, 2022, 07:24:00 PM
Ask your local bank if they can assist with the nickel issues.

That's where I went!
Looking on eBay, I found some rolled nickel and purchased them. They were the only real choice right now, since I live in the woods of Alaska, where sources are limited, I am still not discouraged by these speed bumps in life! 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 14, 2022, 07:26:35 PM
I had a package today, some more parts. The cover for the hopper is awesome.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 14, 2022, 07:30:59 PM
More parts, the meter and bracket came in. The meter coil was fried, so I grabbed a square head meter from my parts box, and it is awesome. The bracket was the most important part, that I needed.  :mail_2:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 14, 2022, 07:34:40 PM
 :mail_2: More parts that arrived. The Bally belly glass was flaking, so I bought another one. It's awesome also, perfect glass, perfect Bally paint job.  :yes:

Member Name: RB sold me this glass, awesome packaging, and everything is great, it's perfect.  :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 14, 2022, 07:37:56 PM
 :fryingpan: Not bad news just a bump in the road, I have a great motor for the hopper, however the motor gear is not working. No biggie I'll order the correct motor for the hopper.

Seems like I'm getting somewhere with the Slot Machine, its looking awesome.

I'm working on the lockout coil. I determined that the coil was toast, and I replaced it with a good coil. I tested it and it is working with a jumper. Now I have to find the power source the wiring is dead somewhere.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 15, 2022, 03:09:15 PM
Well I started at the coin lockout coil, through the door and ended up at the upper cabinet. The odds unit is where it ends, and from what I can see someone has been screwing around with the wiring, basically it's not attached to anything.  :duh: Another problem to resolve.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 15, 2022, 03:14:26 PM
BTW: I'm trying to keep everything organized in my work area, and the slot machine free of clutter.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 15, 2022, 03:23:55 PM
Forget about my wiring.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 16, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Working on the upper cabinet, the Odds Unit. The problem was the coin lockout coil was dead. I made a sketch to help me locate the wire travel to the upper cabinet. The wire was going in the wrong direction in the upper cabinet. Thankfully I found the original wire and was able to restore the wiring path. It took awhile, since I didn't have the original wiring diagram, I had to just take my time and keep tracing wires.

 :applause: Wolftalk has been keeping me pointed in the right direction, he's really good at the slot machines.
I just sit down and read everything, write down notes, follow the path and solve the issues. Admittedly I do sometimes have to restart sometimes since the slot machine is 50+ years old, the wiring is difficult to read, it's old, faded, stained, some wires are not factory installed, and I don't have the original wiring diagram, but I really enjoy it.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 16, 2022, 09:30:53 PM
The odds plate wiring took some time to figure out, ferret out the wrong wires.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 16, 2022, 09:41:55 PM
More pictures, it's really a lot of wiring to check out, clean the contacts, solder broken wires.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 16, 2022, 09:48:49 PM
Obviously, I had a lot of cleaning to do, I am not in the squeaky clean business, I just clean it up and get it working smooth.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 17, 2022, 07:01:33 AM
Just a reminder, here in beautiful Alaska, we don't have the luxury of the lower 48 to buy Bally slot machines. We don't have a whole lot of slot machines to pick from, so when one appears you grab it. This slot machine wasn't in the worst condition, it was a great candidate for restoring. The only negative thing is that the slot machine was stored in a warehouse with no heat, that alone is not good for the slot machine. The belly glass paint was affected by the cold, parts were showing surface rust, most of the lubrication was dried up and hard as a rock. Of course the hopper was missing and I built one. Time will tell if everything has paid off and the slot machine will operate again.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on October 17, 2022, 09:29:24 AM
Great save!
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 17, 2022, 07:34:07 PM
Upper cabinet bulb sockets came in today. It's A "Bally" replacement for the old sockets. I worked hard to save all of the old parts and set them in place just as before.  :yes:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 18, 2022, 07:52:52 AM
So, I am still ferreting out a wire, it's a elusive bugger. I started with the door, to the upper cabinet and supposedly through the hopper. It definitely has been a circus.

It's not all that hard to figure out, just time consuming. Having to: tracing wires, making sure wires are correct, that they have power going through them, that the switches are making full contact. Checking the beau plugs.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on October 18, 2022, 11:06:05 AM
This is from a different schematic.
36 is used once.
Not sure if it will help in your situation.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 18, 2022, 12:25:08 PM
there's some ambiguity with 36-1.   All the 809 schematics I have show 36-1 where david's image shows ... which doesn't connect to anything on the hopper.  All have 36-1 on the hopper plug.

other models have 36-1 connecting to the "open at X step" switch on the payout counter - the vertical stack of switches on the spiral cam side.  Those switches are typically only used on games with complicated payout schedules.  When 36-1 is used for that, it typically does connect thru the hopper plug to a relay in the cabinet.  However, the wire in the insert coin lamp circuit becomes 36-2.

I'd chalk this one up to a change bally made or an anticipation of a need and a screwup with the wire id instance number and don't worry about where the pin on the hopper plug may have gone on the hopper.

if you've verified that the 36-1 pin on the hopper plug is really connecting to 36-1 on the coin relay, reel mech C-2 and odds unit open-at-4th switch, there's nothing on the hopper that would need to connect to that circuit.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 18, 2022, 01:52:51 PM
there's some ambiguity with 36-1.   All the 809 schematics I have show 36-1 where david's image shows ... which doesn't connect to anything on the hopper.  All have 36-1 on the hopper plug.

other models have 36-1 connecting to the "open at X step" switch on the payout counter - the vertical stack of switches on the spiral cam side).  Those switches are typically only used on games with complicated payout schedules.  When 36-1 is used for that, it typically does connect thru the hopper plug to a relay in the cabinet.  However, the wire in the insert coin lamp circuit becomes 36-2.

I'd chalk this one up to a change bally made or an anticipation of a need and a screwup with the wire id instance number and don't worry about where the pin on the hopper plug may have gone on the hopper.

if you've verified that the 36-1 pin on the hopper plug is really connecting to 36-1 on the coin relay, reel mech C-2 and odds unit open-at-4th switch, there's nothing on the hopper that would need to connect to that circuit.

It may be a Mint Casino wiring, will see what I can dig up.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 18, 2022, 01:55:23 PM
Actually, my cat Sabrina, and I will dig something up.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 18, 2022, 01:56:04 PM
This is from a different schematic.
36 is used once.
Not sure if it will help in your situation.

Thanks.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 18, 2022, 02:23:12 PM
It may be a Mint Casino wiring, will see what I can dig up.

nope.  Every 809 I have a schematic for shows 36-1 connecting to the hopper.  They also all show 36-1 as "insert coin" circuit wire.

if you really want to know, you may have to find someone with an 809 and get them to see if the pin is connected on their hopper and to what.

I'd guess that if there is a wire on that hopper pin, the other end is near the payout counter but isn't attached to anything.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 18, 2022, 03:55:11 PM
It may be a Mint Casino wiring, will see what I can dig up.

nope.  Every 809 I have a schematic for shows 36-1 connecting to the hopper.  They also all show 36-1 as "insert coin" circuit wire.

if you really want to know, you may have to find someone with an 809 and get them to see if the pin is connected on their hopper and to what.

I'd guess that if there is a wire on that hopper pin, the other end is near the payout counter but isn't attached to anything.
:yes:

I'm checking out the reel wiring, to see what's going on with the wiring, making sure nothing is switched around. The upper cabinet wiring looks pretty good, the casino did have something extra, that I can tell.

 I am definitely in my element, just enjoying the hunt for a solution.

The major issue is sometimes you get a positive response on a wire, and it's feedback from another wire in the system. Eventually I will figure it out, what do you expect from a slot machine that hasn't worked in decades, probably pushed around from place to place, anything can be a problem until I can find it and repair it.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 18, 2022, 04:43:22 PM
The major issue is sometimes you get a positive response on a wire, and it's feedback from another wire in the system. Eventually I will figure it out, what do you expect from a slot machine that hasn't worked in decades, probably pushed around from place to place, anything can be a problem until I can find it and repair it.  :applause:

not sure what ya mean there.  If you're using continuity or a buzzer to trace wiring, you should also pay attention to the resistance reading (ohms).  'course, you need to use a meter than shows it. 

anything over a couple ohms usually means you are detecting a circuit path through a load (lamp, motor, transformer, coil).  If you were expecting to have the probes on two points on the same wire, then either there's a cruddy plug connection, it's not the same wire or the wire is broken somewhere.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on October 18, 2022, 07:15:10 PM
Might have a 809 machine in the shop.
Will take a look asap.

Just got this old clunker going.
Space Jet Bell.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 19, 2022, 05:45:02 AM
The major issue is sometimes you get a positive response on a wire, and it's feedback from another wire in the system. Eventually I will figure it out, what do you expect from a slot machine that hasn't worked in decades, probably pushed around from place to place, anything can be a problem until I can find it and repair it.  :applause:

not sure what ya mean there.  If you're using continuity or a buzzer to trace wiring, you should also pay attention to the resistance reading (ohms).  'course, you need to use a meter than shows it. 

anything over a couple ohms usually means you are detecting a circuit path through a load (lamp, motor, transformer, coil).  If you were expecting to have the probes on two points on the same wire, then either there's a cruddy plug connection, it's not the same wire or the wire is broken somewhere.

I have my trusty meter, my deaf ears, I try to isolate each wire to get a accurate reading.

I have been searching for the issue on the coin block solenoid being dead, tracing the wire has me going through the upper cabinet wiring, through the hopper, back up to the upper cabinet, through the reels, and back up through the upper cabinet.  And that's where I'm at now.

I noticed the reels wiring has been altered, I need to figure that out also.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 19, 2022, 05:59:21 AM
This is the reel mechanism, the one switch has the added wires.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: DavidLee on October 19, 2022, 08:47:50 AM
809-K schematic shows 36 in the 6 volt system.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 19, 2022, 04:05:06 PM
809-K schematic shows 36 in the 6 volt system.

I've been studying it until my eyes went cross eyed. But I found the issue, power is restored. On to the next problem.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 19, 2022, 05:03:10 PM
Ok, so this is the issue, the first two sets of lights from the left side in the upper cabinet are on. I have noticed that the upper cabinet has some extra wiring that was not factory. On with the diagnosis.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 19, 2022, 05:05:13 PM
I can manually advance the lights.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 19, 2022, 05:09:25 PM
Might have a 809 machine in the shop.
Will take a look asap.

Just got this old clunker going.
Space Jet Bell.

It would be really awesome if you took some pictures so I can see what was added to the slot machine.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 19, 2022, 08:39:08 PM
Ok, so this is the issue, the first two sets of lights from the left side in the upper cabinet are on. I have noticed that the upper cabinet has some extra wiring that was not factory. On with the diagnosis.  :Scratch-Head:

that's right.  The leftmost lights are GI (general illumination) ... they are always on.  The remaining 5 columns are for 1-5 coins played.

when the odds unit is reset, that's equivalent to 1 coin played.

pictures of any other version of an 809 may not help you since there's obviously differences between the games.  If you have wires that do not appear to be factory wires, you're better off posting pictures of them and tracing where they go.  Then it's possible to figure out why someone added them.

in your post 282, you put an arrow pointing to the reel mech B switch.  There's no obvious added wire in the pic.  There is an out-of-harness yellow/something wire on a reel mech A switch ... where does it go and what color are the wires on the A switch it's attached to?
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 20, 2022, 05:48:17 AM
Ok, so this is the issue, the first two sets of lights from the left side in the upper cabinet are on. I have noticed that the upper cabinet has some extra wiring that was not factory. On with the diagnosis.  :Scratch-Head:

that's right.  The leftmost lights are GI (general illumination) ... they are always on.  The remaining 5 columns are for 1-5 coins played.

when the odds unit is reset, that's equivalent to 1 coin played.

pictures of any other version of an 809 may not help you since there's obviously differences between the games.  If you have wires that do not appear to be factory wires, you're better off posting pictures of them and tracing where they go.  Then it's possible to figure out why someone added them.

in your post 282, you put an arrow pointing to the reel mech B switch.  There's no obvious added wire in the pic.  There is an out-of-harness yellow/something wire on a reel mech A switch ... where does it go and what color are the wires on the A switch it's attached to?

OK, will get started and report back.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 20, 2022, 08:48:27 AM
Top shelf wiring.

The light is on from the contact plate. Lifting up the finger and the light goes off. The wire that is where it goes to, is a 35 wire, more work needed.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 20, 2022, 09:56:30 AM
the top insert board should always have two columns of lamps lit.    The left column is always lit ... it's illuminating the glass panel that says "on center line" at the top.

one of the other 5 columns is always lit depending on the position of the odds unit (number of coins played).
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 20, 2022, 12:05:50 PM
the top insert board should always have two columns of lamps lit.    The left column is always lit ... it's illuminating the glass panel that says "on center line" at the top.

one of the other 5 columns is always lit depending on the position of the odds unit (number of coins played).

Am I correct here?

The red arrow pointing to the light's always stays on, for the "on center line".

The black arrow pointing to the lights always stays on, putting one nickel in just starts the slot machine. Adding more nickels moves it from this position.

My apologies, I am a bit slow today, medication.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 20, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
After dismantling the problem odds unit, the plastic gear doesn't get stuck anymore.

OK, the coin relay activates the odds reset, only the reset coil works. The switches on the ratchet activate the reset coil.
So what am I missing here to activate the handle release, etc. I need to look at my wiring diagram.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 21, 2022, 08:16:16 AM
On working on the upper cabinet, I have checked out all of the coils, all of them work. I just noticed a switch that is missing its wires on the odds unit relay. 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 21, 2022, 12:58:47 PM
One more problem found. The Cherry micro switch #E23 on the handle release has failed. So I am ordering one now, all three wires show NC and that's not going to work.

The handle: coil, switches, are functioning correctly.
The wiring diagram doesn't have a brown wire  to the common side of the switch.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 21, 2022, 07:53:08 PM
I found this on the inside of the cabinet, this might help out on the reel wiring, confirming some of the wiring is original Bally.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 22, 2022, 02:23:23 PM
Well, more work on the reel assembly. I discovered that two wires didn't belong on the reel wiring. Then I noticed a wire was spliced, so I started replacing some wires, the meter wires were replaced and now everything is perfect. What a lot of work replacing wires in the harness, keeping the old harness exactly in place. I replaced a couple of wiring clamps, cleaned up the wiring harness.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 22, 2022, 02:32:55 PM
More photos, everything is basically factory, reels, upper cabinet, etc. It is to bad the original hopper was not gone.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 22, 2022, 06:52:58 PM
I sure hope that ferreting out the non Bally extra wires will get the slot machine up and running. At first I didn't think that it had much aftermarket wires, now I realize that I was mistaken. Having the Beau plug as a starting point, then work from their helps out finding the wires, and some are pretty obvious, it just takes time. I had the extra wires in the upper cabinet, reels, in the power area, and in the door. What a mess, at least they left it obvious to me, when I replace wires I source the correct wires, then weave them back into the wiring harness. The reels assembly wiring got a boost from the sticker on the wall, that really helped me out.

I have no idea why the casino would put extra wiring into a slot machine.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 22, 2022, 07:35:05 PM
Here is the reels, and wiper alignment set to the most payment. It's set up is aligned.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: Denmark on October 23, 2022, 06:03:43 AM
it seems like wiper 1&2 i misaligned ?

happy hunting
Hans
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 23, 2022, 09:07:24 AM
it seems like wiper 1&2 i misaligned ?

happy hunting
Hans

Nope, they are spot on, I checked all of them out with a meter, its the photo that's a skew. They were spot on when I cleaned and serviced them so no need for adjustments. The contacts were dirty, the mechanics were frozen, the wiring was beat up, however this was not a problem.

I serviced the reels from top to bottom, replaced chopped wiring, lubricated everything, cleaned all of the contacts, now it's slicker than snot.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 24, 2022, 03:37:20 PM
All of my plastic insulators have almost dried up. I ordered more tubing for the slot machine. Somebody didn't put them back after replacing the solenoid's.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 24, 2022, 05:03:05 PM
Things have slowed down, I am replacing a failed solenoid or coil, parts are coming in, just takes time.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 25, 2022, 02:42:28 PM
it seems like wiper 1&2 i misaligned ?

happy hunting
Hans

My apologies, I went back and looked at the wipers and I was wrong, I can see #2 was out of alignment, thanks for bringing it up to my attention.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 27, 2022, 10:32:51 AM
My wife asked me about the slot machine repair, and why things are on hold. I had to explain to her that I don't carry a supply of parts for the slot machine. Which her next question was why didn't I get the replacement parts in the beginning of the restoration. I love my wife and how she thinks.  :24: :24: :24:

I'm waiting for a micro switch.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 27, 2022, 10:44:07 AM
I also picked up another book. Every book I have has helped me out working on these obsessive, brain teasing, puzzling, machines.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 28, 2022, 07:30:55 PM
Well, I replaced the micro switch in the handle release, that's doing just fine now. I checked out every coil on the slot machine and all of them are working..

On to the next problem.
Now I have to figure out why the coin lockout coil is not powered up. I figured out if I activate the lockout coil wire #31-1, the slot machine works.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 29, 2022, 05:59:10 AM
In further research I have discovered that the 31-1 wire from the lock out solenoid ends up in the upper cabinet, and is basically a dead wire. Obviously it needs to go somewhere and I have been researching where it original was from the factory.
I don't know if it is a constant power wire, A intermittent wire, so I need more research on it. As you can see the arrows in the photos point to the wire, and it is not attached to anything. The drawing shows where every wire belongs except for the 31-1 wire.
I spent a day on researching this wire.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 29, 2022, 07:46:31 AM
So I've figured out the first issue. The 31-1 wire does go to the odds unit on top, but it's a split wire from a odds unit switch that is NC.
Follow the wire it is a #4 on the beau plug that is a 25-1. It appeared to be a different color to me but it traced back to the #4 wire in the beau plug.

The 25-1 goes into the reels, however on the wiring diagram it clearly shows a split and I am certain that the extra 31-1 wire needs to be routed to a #30 wire.

This is beginning to sound like a soap opera.  :rotfl:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 29, 2022, 02:22:46 PM
 :duh: I started today with isolating each wire identifying the wiring circuit since the wiring diagram doesn't paint a picture of the way it's laid out.
Problem is, I can't find the yellow wire that powers the circuit.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 29, 2022, 02:26:52 PM
This is what I did for isolating each wire.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 29, 2022, 04:04:48 PM
I just looked at my 1090-1 Bally slot machine, and the coin block has a extra wire. I wounder if the power wire was missing from the 809-ZZN slot machine I am working on???
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 30, 2022, 06:43:36 AM
I am in contact with Wolftalk, and I am getting some awesome help.  :yes:
This problem is going to be resolved, he's really knowledgeable.  :cool_thumb_up:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on October 30, 2022, 08:18:28 AM
I just looked at my 1090-1 Bally slot machine, and the coin block has a extra wire. I wounder if the power wire was missing from the 809-ZZN slot machine I am working on???

you have a yellow/red (31-1) wire in both machines.

your 1090-1 has two segments of orange wire 70 directly connected to the coil, so the coil lug is not one of the ends of a daisy chain of connections.

on your 809-ZZN, you have either one segment of wire 70 or a jumper - can't tell the wire color in the pic.  Either may be ok.  If it's a jumper, it may not be orange, but the other end of it should attach to orange wire 70 - typically at the diverter coil or other nearby coil.

simple way to tell is stick a voltmeter probe on yellow wire 30 on the coin switch and other probe on the non-31-1 wire on the lockout coil.  If you measure 50VAC, you have power on the lockout coil and your issue is the 31-1 wire has no closed path to wire 30 thru whatever switches/units it should have.

if you don't have a voltmeter handy but you have a jumper, jumping wire 30 on the coin switch to the 31-1 on the lockout coil should cause the armature to pull down onto the coil top.  If not, then the wire 30 or 70 connection is bad or the coil is bad.

if the coin switch is working to release the handle, half the circuit to the lockout coil works.  You need to probe the circuit from wire 25-1 to 31-1.

the hanging end of 31-1 in the cabinet is likely for a jackpot release switch that may not be in the game.  One way the casino would handle a jackpot hand-pay was insert a coin to trip the coin relay  - which often turned off the bell.  The release switch was needed to allow they coin to be accepted when the game was in jackpot lockup. 

in any case, a dangling end of wire 31-1 is not necessarily an issue.  All you care about is a closed circuit path from wire 25-1 to 31-1.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 30, 2022, 01:49:08 PM
Great information,Wolftalk, I keep getting educated on this slot machine. This morning I spent some time on the wiring, with Wolftalk helping me. Several things were discovered, that need addressing. It is a continuous process figuring out wiring since Mint Casino had added extra wires in the upper half of the slot machine. I found a couple of clipped wires. Still more work. Before I cleaned up the slot machine, I had some wires, they were easy to remove in the fuse area.

You can't work on a slot machine without ohm meters, tiny wire nippers, assortment of wire strippers, lets face it, you need a lot of tools including the kitchen sink. I have several different ohm meters but my favorite is a old, worn meter that has been with me for decades.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on October 30, 2022, 03:21:41 PM
I just looked at my 1090-1 Bally slot machine, and the coin block has a extra wire. I wounder if the power wire was missing from the 809-ZZN slot machine I am working on???

you have a yellow/red (31-1) wire in both machines.

your 1090-1 has two segments of orange wire 70 directly connected to the coil, so the coil lug is not one of the ends of a daisy chain of connections.

on your 809-ZZN, you have either one segment of wire 70 or a jumper - can't tell the wire color in the pic.  Either may be ok.  If it's a jumper, it may not be orange, but the other end of it should attach to orange wire 70 - typically at the diverter coil or other nearby coil.

simple way to tell is stick a voltmeter probe on yellow wire 30 on the coin switch and other probe on the non-31-1 wire on the lockout coil.  If you measure 50VAC, you have power on the lockout coil and your issue is the 31-1 wire has no closed path to wire 30 thru whatever switches/units it should have.

if you don't have a voltmeter handy but you have a jumper, jumping wire 30 on the coin switch to the 31-1 on the lockout coil should cause the armature to pull down onto the coil top.  If not, then the wire 30 or 70 connection is bad or the coil is bad.

if the coin switch is working to release the handle, half the circuit to the lockout coil works.  You need to probe the circuit from wire 25-1 to 31-1.

the hanging end of 31-1 in the cabinet is likely for a jackpot release switch that may not be in the game.  One way the casino would handle a jackpot hand-pay inserting a coin it to trip the coin switch - which often turned off the bell.  The release switch was needed to allow they coin to be accepted when the game was in jackpot lockup. 

in any case, a dangling end of wire 31-1 is not necessarily an issue.  All you care about is a closed circuit path from wire 25-1 to 31-1.

I checked out a voltmeter probe on yellow wire 30 on the coin switch and other probe on the non-31-1 wire on the lockout coil.  It measure 50VAC.   :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 01, 2022, 10:27:15 AM
A lot of work. I have checked out the wires and come up with this drawing.

The 70 wire is unknown, I can't find it, I really need a place to start looking.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 01, 2022, 10:42:39 AM
Another wiring drawing everything checked out.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 01, 2022, 04:21:43 PM
I have the hopper motor installed today, it arrived in the mail.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 02, 2022, 09:04:18 AM
Working on 50V hot wires through the plugs for a start. Trying to locate the problem.

My bad, I didn't have enough coffee, disregard this posting.  :banghead:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 05, 2022, 07:53:39 AM
More work identifying the path  of the wiring in the slot machine. This is the most accurate one I've come up with. I've dealt with broken wires, the Mint casino wires, but I'm really close.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 05, 2022, 07:44:35 PM
Another few hours of checking out more wires. The 74-1 wire to the coin switch had 50 Volts then it just quit for no reason. The wire plug between the two is dead, I'm looking for some kind of switch, some reason for wire to loose 50 volts. Something like a override switch maybe, I don't know but tomorrow is another new day. The wiring diagram doesn't show anything but a straight line between the two plugs.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 06, 2022, 03:19:00 PM
Found it, a coil wire was broken.  :banghead:

I assembled a test light since I can't hear the ohm meter sound.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 07, 2022, 10:04:54 AM
The Dash Pod was fried, I had to rebuilt it. Problem was the lock out coil started buzzing, and it was intermittent, wiggling the handle and it was erratic.

Now the other issue is if I pull the reels out I have power from the 31-1 lock out coil to the upper cabinet, if I put the reels back, it's dead.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 07, 2022, 10:08:31 AM
I am in need of the plastic covers for the wiring, seems to be some thin wall plastic which is difficult to locate.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 07, 2022, 12:21:56 PM
Starting to isolate wires to find out the issue. I am at the hopper now, I'll keep working the wiring.  :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 08, 2022, 01:07:51 PM
One more broken wire found, while I just puttering around another group of wiring.   

Eureka it's running!  :applause:

Still have more work to be done, now I have to diagnose the slot machine when it's running.  :nerd:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 08, 2022, 01:17:20 PM
More part are arriving, the candle is on it's way. :applause:


Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 09, 2022, 05:36:22 PM
Kinda just got too involved with the slot machine, it was acting crazy like drug overdose crazy. Long story real short I had to get away from it.  :fryingpan:

Today I got some sleep and I started looking for cut wires, and I found some, I also found cut wires on the beau plug. This explains a lot, they are important wires for the meters. The meters are integrated into the upper cabinet, reels, and the cut wires were creating havoc. Worst of all, the wires were hidden inside of the wiring harness.  :banghead:

Good news the safety timer works.

I have several cut wires replaced, still I have a ways to go.....
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 10, 2022, 07:59:29 AM
Makes more sense when I have discovered the missing wires, it affects the slot machine and how it actually works. I just can't imagine why someone would actually remove the wires.  :banghead:

The wires that are missing are: 63-2, 60, 41-2. 63-2 is basically a wire getting power from the 70 wire, another major important wire. 42-1 count unit goes to the upper cabinet, I have the #60 Replaced to the odds relay in the upper cabinet. That is a important wire. More work ahead, replacing wires, having to weave them back into the wiring harness takes hours to do it correctly. It's definitely a challenge.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 10, 2022, 08:16:34 AM
The slot machine is like Humpty Dumpty, getting the pieces of the puzzle correctly in place, AFTER someone else tried to put it together incorrectly.  :nerd:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 10, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Ok so I got some wiring done......

From the upper cabinet #21, I have a photo of the switch.

Now the 41-2 wire is gone from the wiring harness, after the bell in the lower cabinet. 

This takes a regular meter.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 10, 2022, 05:52:50 PM
So in the beginning of the restoration, #3 beau plug was melted. This is the blue wire for the bulbs. I ran a new wire to the fuses, and another wire to the already established blue wire at the bell. I was just recreating the blue wire that burned up.

 I didn't think about it, I was trying to get the little monster just working at the time. Well the upper cabinet lights were working fine until I removed the extra blue wire and the lights went out. Now since the slot machine is functioning, I need to start working on the other items that need repair. So, I am back at making drawings of the electrical wiring, this way I can focus on the task at hand and not get distracted. If something comes up, I make a note of it and come back to it after I'm finished. If not you end up getting nowhere.

So I need to trace the blue wire, that's another one of those wires that are in the top cabinet, the reels, front door, so I'm back at again.  :24:

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 11, 2022, 07:37:16 AM
 :EmoticonHelp4:

Does anyone have any of the plastic insulators, see photo, I have been using up mine replacing the ones that are missing on the slot machine. Please email me at david@wasillalocksmith.com.

Thanks.

 :EmoticonHelp4:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on November 11, 2022, 09:28:11 AM
the sleeves don't need to go on every wire, just the ones that have a chance of touching wiring on adjacent lugs.  i.e. if you have 3 switches in a stack with double wires on lugs, only the middle one really needs the sleeve.

best bet is measure the ID/OD of one and buy some new vinyl tubing ... it'll be soft and stretchy unlike ones salvaged from 40 year old games.  You could also use shrink tube, but don't shrink it.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 11, 2022, 10:58:41 AM
Adventure continues: the layout on the blue wire from the upper cabinet, passing the bell blue wire, into the 6 volt fuse, I used a blue wire through the wiring harness. Now the lights work!  :applause:

One less thing on my bucket list of repairs.

The meter bracket, meters are on order. Originally the curved steel meters were used.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 11, 2022, 11:01:48 AM
the sleeves don't need to go on every wire, just the ones that have a chance of touching wiring on adjacent lugs.  i.e. if you have 3 switches in a stack with double wires on lugs, only the middle one really needs the sleeve.

best bet is measure the ID/OD of one and buy some new vinyl tubing ... it'll be soft and stretchy unlike ones salvaged from 40 year old games.  You could also use shrink tube, but don't shrink it.

You know me,  like the old, ugly, dingy, covers.  :24:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 11, 2022, 03:53:04 PM
Good day today, I'm making progress.  :applause:

I have the "Insert coin light, coin accepted light working, I admit a wire was wrong, my bad. Gremlins removed.
The diverter switch at the hopper was shot, replaced it with another one. Now its slicker than snot.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 11, 2022, 06:26:36 PM
I need to put together another to do list. Several things need to be worked on, repairs, etc.

Good news, I have more parts arriving soon. I need a bracket, and a meter for the back of the slot machine.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 12, 2022, 07:24:28 AM
Today I am getting ready for the candle, it's arriving soon and I need to make sure that the wiring is correct.

I have removed the non factory wires, a much cleaner cabinet, and not a rats nest of wires. When I first removed the door wiring the service switch was wired incorrectly. The upper cabinet wiring block has everything, #20, #83-2, wires.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 12, 2022, 07:28:18 AM
With the help of Wolftalk, I have a plan to repair the door light sockets. A great write up on the repair is here.
Wolftalk sure helped me out getting the slot machine up and running.  I doubt that this slot machine ever worked  after it left the Mint casino with all of the wiring issues, reel issues, switches burnt, etc.
https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/commonproblems/lampsocket/
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 12, 2022, 10:46:03 AM
I checked out the switch for the candle, it is working, the wiring is perfect.  :applause:
I found another broken wire, I have lost count on how many I had to re solder on this slot machine.
I worked on the door light sockets today, I used a old bulb to solder the wires to the socket. At first I was scratching my head  :Scratch-Head: then I had Wolftalk send me a link which helped me overcome the problem with the socket and now it's 100% connection between the bulb and the wiring.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 12, 2022, 02:03:23 PM
Found another broken micro switch. I disassembled the coin ramp since the coins were getting stuck and found a bunch of something, thankfully I had another part that wasn't gross and rusty.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 13, 2022, 06:35:36 AM
The candle came in,  :applause: I will install it today.

I am working on the payout circuit. Wolftalk has been helping me isolate problems with the slot machine all along, resolving them. It would be nearly impossible to restore slot machines without someone familiar with them helping out a lot.
As you can see I have another drawing of a wiring diagram, it helps me focus on performing one goal at a time.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 14, 2022, 03:12:34 PM
Update, the candle is installed using the exact holes, I put the exact wires into it that matched up to the old ones, soldered the ends up just like Bally did connecting to the wire block. The switch was not working, so I found another one. Seems every on/off switch, micro switch was/is bad on this slot machine.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 14, 2022, 03:21:29 PM
The upper cabinet is finished, hopefully so I buttoned it up, I wanted to put the glass back where it would be safer back in the cabinet since its unique

Cross your fingers.  :yes:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 15, 2022, 01:14:13 PM
Another day of repairs. The reels are worn and the side to side play is causing them to brush up against the wiper blade assembly. Since I am a safe and vault technician, I have the perfect solution. I have safe door shims that are several thickness, I found the correct size and resolved the issues, they are running slick. If this was something that I could purchase new I would have done it, however these are not produced.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 16, 2022, 09:45:30 PM
The payout relay was missing a switch, that required me to rebuild it, just ironing out the issues. Still a lot more work. Thankfully I have a lot of good help from Wolftalk.


 :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 18, 2022, 04:36:50 PM
Long story real short.The meters were not working in the slot machine, the beau plugs in the cabinet were the problem. I found out the one beau plug wire in the reel was missing, in the upper cabinet plug two wires were swapped around on that beau plug. I used the wiring diagram for my reference, after I was finished the meters are working without any issues. So, check all of the beau plugs for any issues, saves you a whole lot of time. On this slot machine the meters are important to operate the machine.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 19, 2022, 07:55:41 AM
I'm going to tackle the circuit that starts the hopper motor, everything so far has been done in order. The slot machine needed to be serviced, everything had to be removed then cleaned, repaired, sourced parts, build the hopper. The coin assembly needed to be overhauled, the nickel would reject most of the time, the micro switch was faulty, as well as most micro switches in the slot machine.
After that was establishing power, removing the small bugs, getting the slot machine in a state where I could troubleshoot the wiring, repair the the problems one circuit at a time. So far I established the coin circuit to function, addressing the wiring problems. The lockout coil circuit was established, after replacing coils, repair wiring, source more missing parts. The 3 meters do play a part in the operating system, the wiring was totally wrong, everything was a mess, missing meters, brackets, just a big issue that I finally got turned around. While going through the repairs, I had several hopper issues that I have been taking care of as I progress through the slot machine. As of now the slot machine is functioning even tho the hopper motor is not working, it's been a long journey, still more repairs are needed.

This is my next job, following the circuit for the motor, I came up with a plan to source out the problems.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 19, 2022, 07:47:25 PM
Checked out the circuit, all is good here.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 20, 2022, 01:44:13 PM
Working on the reels, the black arrow is pointing to a temp test wire.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 20, 2022, 01:47:23 PM
Working on the reels, everything looks factory, It's really important to study the soldering connections for signs of tampering.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 20, 2022, 01:49:27 PM
Working on the reels. Checking to see if everything aligns up.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 20, 2022, 04:47:58 PM
The marks on the reel disc is the payout. It helps me test out the win relays. Hopefully, this information will help others out.

1. Cherries
2. BAR
3. Minty
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: Jackpot on November 20, 2022, 09:49:34 PM
Hello, I have been looking for another Bally slot machine for a long, long, time. So, I am back for another challenge. I restored a Bally before on this forum sourcing all of the missing parts.
809-ZZN model
Here it is:


I have a lot
of parts and some old Bally's.
if you need anything i may have it.
http://www.coinslots.com (http://www.coinslots.com)
jackpot
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 21, 2022, 04:16:14 PM
Hello, I have been looking for another Bally slot machine for a long, long, time. So, I am back for another challenge. I restored a Bally before on this forum sourcing all of the missing parts.
809-ZZN model
Here it is:


I have a lot
of parts and some old Bally's.
if you need anything i may have it.
[url]http://www.coinslots.com[/url] ([url]http://www.coinslots.com[/url])
jackpot


Sent you a pm.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 21, 2022, 04:26:00 PM
Today I'm working on another wiring run, two wiring runs that meet in the #1 reel. I'm no expert, but I am working on the electrical wiring that activates the hopper motor, through some switches using the 90 wire and the 23 wire. It's back to work trying to find the problem, then repair it. I actually enjoy this, it's a progression if you been following my post. I use new papers stapled together every time I start a new wiring diagram project in the slot machine, so I don't get lost.

I have been testing some of the wires, beau plugs, switches, looking for the problem, good news I was able to repair half of the wiring equation, and one coil that was dead.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 22, 2022, 09:12:15 AM
The circuit is complete, everything is at 50 Volts when #1 reel is set on cherries. The photo shows two wires, they are my test wires for the circuit, the hopper is spitting out nickels. The hopper is not resetting but that's not my goal here, it was to establish the circuit.  :yes:
Thanks to Wolftalk for my homework assignments.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 22, 2022, 09:19:25 PM
I finally got the slot machine to work, it pays out on the first reel cherries. That's a big accomplishment from a dead slot machine, bad wires, switches, crossed wires, burned out bulbs, dead sockets, hardened grease, coin assembly not working, burned plugs, wires burned, micro switches that failed, a who lot of enjoyment.  :24:

I did have a switch that was wrong.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 23, 2022, 08:58:44 AM
Now the slot machine is functioning, it's time to work on the payouts. I am only getting the first cherry to payout which is a accomplishment in its self.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 23, 2022, 08:36:42 PM
I checked out the delay relay, making sure it was functioning correctly.
As I have been progressing through the slot machine I am now checking out the reels to make sure the payouts are matching up. Since the reels were not correct when I serviced them I had to make sure the wins matched up with the circuits.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 24, 2022, 02:02:08 PM
Working on the payouts, they are a bit screwed up. First, I need to check out the wiring in the reels making sure everything is correct.

The contacts really needed a better cleaning. I checked the wiring, plugs, everything and matched them up with the hopper wiring. One step closer, the hopper is paying out nickels every win, the amount is not correct, however from a dead machine to this is awesome.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on November 26, 2022, 04:55:32 PM
The next problem I am dealing with the payouts. So what I have done is order more hopper parts. Wolftalk said that I may have worn parts causing the problems, burned contact plate, etc. So I just picked up a bunch of parts to help me out repair the slot machine. It's not of a matter of getting it done, it's getting it done perminate, and not going back again and work on it later on.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 01, 2022, 02:41:12 PM
Kinda lost track on how many switches I've had to replaced in the slot machine. The push button for attendant switch is the latest one that died. All of the one's I replaced are old and crusty.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 02, 2022, 02:06:52 PM
Been ferreting out more issues, this one is the handle. The coil has become weak, won't pull the blocker out of the way, all of the time.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on December 02, 2022, 04:57:07 PM
if the handle release coil doesn't trip, the coil should be powered after the first coin is inserted.  Measure the voltage on the coil with the meter probes on the two coil lugs.  If you don't have 50VAC+, there's a cruddy connection in the circuit.

especially make sure the switch on the handle release relay with wires 83-1 and 52-1 is clean and adjusted well.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 05, 2022, 07:21:08 AM
if the handle release coil doesn't trip, the coil should be powered after the first coin is inserted.  Measure the voltage on the coil with the meter probes on the two coil lugs.  If you don't have 50VAC+, there's a cruddy connection in the circuit.

especially make sure the switch on the handle release relay with wires 83-1 and 52-1 is clean and adjusted well.

Continuing the trouble shooting. Working on the hopper, just another beautiful day.  :yes:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 05, 2022, 04:58:00 PM
Found the handle release problem. The switch was in need of adjusting, it was not making good contact. Looking at it was fine, however testing with the meter  proved it as the issue. Wolftalk had the answer.  :cool_thumb_up:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 05, 2022, 05:02:29 PM
Working on the hopper, it's just a turd. I have spent the weekend working on it. Call me crazy, but I really want the hopper to be 100% function, and trying to make it look good.

I'm dealing with the payout. Dealing with the win light. Dealing with dirty switches.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 06, 2022, 09:33:06 AM
Now I am working on the hopper, the torsion spring is wound 2.5 times. I think the 2 extension springs are in the correct order for the unit.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 06, 2022, 09:36:10 AM
I'm working on the Delay relay unit. The switches weren't correct, issues with the wiring, parallel wiring redundant.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 06, 2022, 09:38:12 AM
I'm working on the payout relay. The wiring was not correct, it was a rats nest.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 06, 2022, 09:43:15 AM
The win light was not correct, it didn't have the correct switches, it was flickering.
Now I need to figure out why the win light goes on normally, and off when a win occurs, no more flickering.    :banghead:

Update: I made the mistake, I had the switch backwards.  :duh:

That's just nuts.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 06, 2022, 10:00:31 AM
Working on the hopper SWS switches. The white yellow wire is in the wiring diagram, however this factory Bally harness is actually brown yellow, go figure.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 06, 2022, 02:42:04 PM
I'm  :Scratch-Head: on this one. The win light will not reset. I've changed out the reset paw, step up arm assembly and still no change.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 06, 2022, 03:13:15 PM
On a side note, the hopper lever and diverter coil are working fine. I actually forgot about the assembly until that darn diverter coil started buzzing loudly and I really thought I broke the slot machine for good until figured it out.   :rotfl: :rotfl:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 06, 2022, 04:27:37 PM
More hopper pictures, its getting much more organized, wiring is getting straighten out.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 07, 2022, 10:00:07 AM
For the life of me, my brain locked up and Wolftalk helped me on the win lite. Talk about making a small mistake and unable to see it.  :duh:

After much deliberation, exhausting work, with the help of others, Wolftalk, this is where I'm at today.  :yes:

 :applause: OK, so I resolved the payout issue. The payout works the exact change after adjustments. I installed a adjustment screw to prevent the over travel of the assembly.

The payouts that work are:
Cherries
Grapes
Bells
Oranges

 :Scratch-Head: What doesn't work is the:
Stars
Bells
BAR
Minty
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 07, 2022, 11:58:00 AM
My work shop where I am working on the slot machine, kinda looks like Frankenstein laboratory.  :24: Due to the snow, I stayed away from my other work shop, it's easier to work here. I got it cleaned up ready for the next chapter in my slot machine.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 08, 2022, 03:17:35 PM
Working on the BAR payouts on the slot machine, wiring is in excellent condition, for a change.  :fryingpan:

The #2 J.P. lockup relay is not functioning, the switch is NO, so I need to look into that issue to complete the circuit.

More investigation needed.  :nerd:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 09, 2022, 07:24:58 AM
The payouts, that were a problem was the MINTY and BAR. The issue was a outboard wiper adjustment. Once that was cleaned up, it's working now, payouts, everything is good.  :thank_you: Wolftalk for the guidance, I really am just pleased with everything.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 09, 2022, 07:49:14 AM
The hopper a was built from ground up. This is it completed, It's been a long, difficult, process. And it's really nice, wiring is perfect, switches are cleaned, serviced, the burnt ones were replaced, the 4 solenoid were checked out, serviced or replaced. The delay relay was rebuilt with new capacitor, solenoid, the switches were rebuilt. The wiring harness is Bally factory, everything was exactly perfect with the wiring, I was lucky to find a wiring harness in such good condition, nothing was altered. The beau plug/wiring was restored, all of the wires are correct in color, length, Bally factory cat gut is in place. The frame, scoop assembly, support, housing,  the hopper came from a 1967 mechanical, that was the start.

The reset pawl assembly, step up arm assembly is the best one's I have, with zero wear on them. They are not bent from adjusting, so that's awesome.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 09, 2022, 07:51:09 AM
More hopper photos, note the two springs the red one is newer, the old ones are not colored red. Capacitors are the problem, when they get old replace them. I worked on old radio's from the 1940's, and I learned about capacitors.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 09, 2022, 07:53:13 AM
More hopper pictures, the payout unit is all Bally, even the resistor. The carriage assembly is assembled from the best parts I had, everything was hand picked. One thing I've noticed is the switches get bent like pretzels when someone doesn't know what they are doing. I have spent hours straighten out each one, alignment, cleaning.

A bonus on the hopper is the Bally decal, with Las Vegas decal combined.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 09, 2022, 08:20:29 PM
OK, this is finally completed, all of the payouts are working. Everything is working, and best of all is I have a ton of notes if anything happens.  :yes: See, you can build a electrical hopper from scratch, restore a slot machine to peak performance, with help from this forum wizards. Nice Christmas present!
 :thank_you: Thanks again Wolftalk, you are awesome !!   :thank_you:

Merry Christmas everyone!
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 21, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
More parts, finished work.

Wife loves the slot machine.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 24, 2022, 06:24:08 PM
I don't know if I went over the meters. On this 809-ZZN the meters were a part of the problem, without them installed correctly the slot machine will not work. I spent some time having to remove the wiring that was buggered up and install new wiring per the wiring diagram.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 27, 2022, 06:11:01 PM
 :mail_2: A package arrived today. Finally, all of the meters are correct, exactly the same, and everything is working!!!!  :applause:  :applause:  :applause:
I asked the seller if he had a cash box label meter, and he had one.  :applause:  :applause:  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on December 31, 2022, 03:35:05 PM
 :cheerleader:
12-31-2023 I'm putting the slot machine through it's winnings, it has a hiccup every now and then shorting just one nickel.
01-02-2023 this is interesting, the slot machine paid out exactly the same payout every time and I been playing it for awhile now.

 :cateyes: I have calibrated the contact plate exactly spot on, and the step up arm, I doubt that they are not the problem after the work I did to calibrate it. The step up arm has a adjustment I built into the base plate.

The good news is that the big wins are working exactly as they should be, the candle lights up when a large win occurs, as it should per the wiring diagram, and the bell rings. You have to admit it has come a long, long, way starting out without a hopper, wires FUBAR, hardened solid grease, switches burned out.  :yes:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 01, 2023, 11:07:36 AM
I'm just finishing up the small stuff that's missing..........
Found the relay cover for the hopper, I found a photo of one here as a example  :clap:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 07, 2023, 11:42:59 AM
the hopper itself isn't that big a deal ... any 30 pin hopper or rewiring a 30 pin plug onto a hopper would get you partway.

the problem is the payout schedule ... specifically a single cherry paying 3.   

the drawing for the payout disc that belongs to the game is w-923-219 ... which I don't have so I don't know what the M-645-xxx number on the disc itself would be.

you need a disc that can support payouts of 3, 5, 10, 14, 18, 50, 100 and 200.   It may be possible to use a more common disc that has 2, 5, and the rest and mount the disc so it takes three steps to get off the 2 trace, then you'd have to cut other traces to shorten them a little.  Alternatively, add a copper strip to lengthen the 2 trace.

you may be able to find a disc with more pay traces that you can cut short to get the lengths you need, but I don't know who has piles of discs available to hunt thru.

a last resort option is replace the glass and reel tapes to make a more common 809 variant, but it'd be a shame to lose the 3 stars in any position payout - I don't think that was common.

did you get paperwork with the game?

 :Scratch-Head: So I have been working on the different payouts, everything is going great. Then I was looking at the three stars, and asked Wolftalk about them. Basically he said that the three stars can be in any position inside the window, so when I started putting the stars one up, one down at random it works, and the bell rings! It is awesome to see a slot machine come back to life 100%.

 :nerd:  You really need to be thankful that we still have these Bally savvy people who are willing to explain wiring issues, relay issues, everything and anything about a slot machine. Having Wolftalk email me with the instructions on repairs was invaluable, I learned a lot from him, I have taken all of his emails and printed them off so I can reference them in the future.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 07, 2023, 11:45:38 AM
I just got the mail and the payout relay cover came in today!  :mail_2: Having to start from a shell of a 1967 hopper mechanical, to a 809-ZZN hopper with all of it's parts is a challenge.

But you have to admit that the 809-ZZN slot machine having everything is quite impressive.  :cheers:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: rdaniel on January 07, 2023, 12:09:31 PM
I guess with those long and dark nights you have plenty of time to work on your project.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 07, 2023, 01:12:51 PM
I guess with those long and dark nights you have plenty of time to work on your project.

I keep busy all year around.
I don't have any issues with how light or dark it is here in Alaska. I don't have any issues with how cold temperatures are, snowstorms, and they dip into the -20's normally. I have traveled through the state where the temperatures dropped to -60+, it is no big deal. I don't have any issues with how it constantly rains in the spring, summer, fall. I don't have any issues with wind storms, we have up to 90 MPH winds. I don't have any issues with with the animal population, they were here first and they are just doing what wild animal do, provide food for people. I don't have any issues with living in the woods, dirt roads, it is quiet, peaceful, beautiful, healthy living.

And YES it's true that I have seen Russia from Alaska (Shemya island).
 :dancing_party:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: rdaniel on January 07, 2023, 01:41:09 PM
Thanks for the information
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 07, 2023, 06:50:24 PM
Still fine tuning the slot machine, the 5 cent SLUG REJECT was toast from age, nothing worked to repair the wear and tear. The nickels were getting stuck, rejected, it was a major problem. So I said screw it and found a replacement NATIONAL 5 cent SLUG REJECT. Now everything is smooth sailing no more issues, the nickels advances without any issues, the slug rejection is minimum, coin block is working, dropping coins below is good, so life is good.  :applause:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 09, 2023, 01:06:04 PM
More bugs. I have discovered that the Diverter ramp was not working correctly. So, I started with the hopper and discovered that I had the micro switch wire was in the wrong place,  NO and NC were switched and things got back to coins low ramp goes in, full ramp out. Also the ramp was tweaked. Problem solved.

Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 09, 2023, 01:09:32 PM
Next issue is that the lockout coil finger stays out on the fourth coin, not the fifth coin. Bypassing the lockout coil it works good.  :Scratch-Head:
Wolftalk what do you think about it?
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 15, 2023, 10:05:16 AM
 :cheerleader:
I was able to source a NOS reel glass. I put the old one in the slot machine stand since it was the original one. The original one had some paint missing, the casino glued something to the inside glass that created some issues with how the glass looked.

Right now, after playing the slot machine for awhile, the payouts are consistent every time. The slot machine is working really good, actually excellent, considering the state it was in when I got it.  :dancing_party:

Before: handle was frozen, reels were scraping, no hopper, missing a ton of parts, lights were bad, light sockets were bad, wiring was cut, spliced, no candle, upper cabinet unit, reel assembly was literally frozen in time, power cord was toast.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: wolftalk on January 15, 2023, 06:23:13 PM
Next issue is that the lockout coil finger stays out on the fourth coin, not the fifth coin. Bypassing the lockout coil it works good.  :Scratch-Head:
Wolftalk what do you think about it?

the coin lockout coil is controlled by an "open at 4th (top)" switch on the odds unit with wires 25-1 and 56-3 on the blades.  It's one of the switches poking out over the white plastic ratchet/gear and the stack is operated by a peg sticking out of the ratchet.  Make sure the switch only opens when the unit is stepped all the way up (4th step, in this case).

it's ok to adjust the switch blades so the peg barely touches the switch blade on the 3rd step, but it can't push the switch open until the 4th.
 
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 15, 2023, 08:19:31 PM
Next issue is that the lockout coil finger stays out on the fourth coin, not the fifth coin. Bypassing the lockout coil it works good.  :Scratch-Head:
Wolftalk what do you think about it?

the coin lockout coil is controlled by an "open at 4th (top)" switch on the odds unit with wires 25-1 and 56-3 on the blades.  It's one of the switches poking out over the white plastic ratchet/gear and the stack is operated by a peg sticking out of the ratchet.  Make sure the switch only opens when the unit is stepped all the way up (4th step, in this case).

it's ok to adjust the switch blades so the peg barely touches the switch blade on the 3rd step, but it can't push the switch open until the 4th.

Got your email, working good now.   :wave:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on January 23, 2023, 09:08:51 AM
I have a great running slot machine thanks to everyone here in restoring a real treasure. On to my next adventure.......  :applause:

 :thank_you: :thank_you: :thank_you: :thank_you:
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on May 18, 2023, 03:28:51 PM
My wife, Jan is a slot machine moma.
Title: Re: A Bally 809-ZZN restoration.
Post by: David Walz on July 15, 2023, 10:38:57 AM
Still playing without any problems. Payout is exactly on target, it runs like a bat out of hell. Cleaning the reels down to the nuts and bolts makes the reels run smooth, fast, with little effort.
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