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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: GeeksGoneBad on November 21, 2022, 05:19:01 PM
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Title says it all - my uncle passed around Christmas last year and I've inherited a Bally 1090 from 1975. It was somewhat working and I've tinkered with it to get it working and then I thought I would upgrade it with like LEDS and new reel pictures and I've probably fixed it and broken it 3 times now LOL
Currently in a broken state :(
but I'll figure it out - basically right now the payout counter doesn't reset
just really marking my territory here :) thanks for letting me join here!
Jamie
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if you don't have the schematic, what's the full model number on the plate below the handle?
generally on a 1090, the payout counter reset coil just has a payout counter "open at 0" switch and a reel mech B-3 switch in the circuit.
usually the open-at-zero switch is the one in front of the spiral cam on the payout counter. It should be open at reset to prevent unnecessary firing of the reset coil and ideally closed on step 1+ of the payout counter. In practice, it needs to be closed after the minimum payout, so there's some wiggle room to cheat a little on the switch adjust.
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Thanks! Yeah the little metal sticker on the side of the machine just says 1090 no dash or other numbers
I looked at a few schematics but the coin multiplier device isn't the same as the pictures that are in the same folder so I'm not sure if the schematic is right or the coin thingy was maybe swapped out with a different one - it only takes 2 coins, not 3 like most of the 1090 stuff I see... so I think I probably have something that's been modified throughout the years :)
Sorry I don't know most of the terms yet, can you explain "reel mech B-3 switch" ? :)
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This is my baby. A Bally Model: 1090-29, Serial number: 1090-4012, Model type: 3 coin multiplier, Coin: 25¢, Year: 07/17/1979.
I restored it back to factory condition.
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Thanks! Yeah the little metal sticker on the side of the machine just says 1090 no dash or other numbers
I looked at a few schematics but the coin multiplier device isn't the same as the pictures that are in the same folder so I'm not sure if the schematic is right or the coin thingy was maybe swapped out with a different one - it only takes 2 coins, not 3 like most of the 1090 stuff I see... so I think I probably have something that's been modified throughout the years :)
Sorry I don't know most of the terms yet, can you explain "reel mech B-3 switch" ? :)
I think david lee has some nice labelled pictures of the left side of the reel mech, so hopefully he'll wander by soon.
if ya look at the left side of the reel mech ... with the clock/fan on it ... there's a couple stacks of vertical switches and a horizontal stack kinda in between them. Stack B is the horizontal stack, and switch 3 is the 3rd switch up from the frame.
B-3 with have an orange/black (78-1) and black/white (85-1) wire on it. 78-1 goes to the payout counter zero switch thu a couple plug connections.
fwiw, stack A is the rear vertical stack, and C is the other vertical.
if your glass is modified to only be a two coin game, you'll have to live with it or source another glass. The base 1090 was a straight multiplier ... no bonus payout for playing max coins ... so there's no real advantage to playing more than one coin.
looks like the 1090 did not have an easy way to misadjust a switch to limit the game to two coins, so swapping out the coin unit is reasonable. The replacement should be pretty straightforward ... unless they changed the payouts so it's not a straight multiplier anymore.
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A, B, C-coin relay switch stack.
The coin switch is activated by the first coin in, thus setting the machine to play.
Hopefully the photo is clear enough to help out.
Pretty sure the odds step up is located behind the top glass.
It’s possible to step up the machine by manually activating one of the 3 coils on the rack.
Believe it’s the far right one.
Or step up the unit itself by depressing the the step up coil plunger.
Side note,
If the belly glass is true to the machine.
There is a good chance my grandfather serviced the machine back in the day.
Possibly I might of tried my luck on the machine. Back then this was an expensive machine to play.
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Sorry for the lag in reply LOL I need to turn on notifications I think :)
So I looked at the coin multiplier thing in the top and they actually grinded away the gears/teeth so more coins would not advance the arms LOL - I'm OK with just two coins, this is just going to be for fun for me anyway :)
I'll take a look at the items you mentioned - thanks for the advice!
It would be too cool if your grandfather serviced this machine and you've played it - small world! :)
Thanks,
Jamie
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If possible post a few photos of the unit in question.
Reset position and last coin position would be helpful photos.
The white ratchet wheel / gear in some cases have a section that has been removed.
This prevents it from stepping up any further.
Possibly there’s a set of contacts that are opening to soon on the unit.
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I can take some pictures for sure
the problem is *probably* because I removed a few things I thought were not needed - there was a button, call service I think, that was actually hidden behind the front panel, so I figured it wasn't in use and took it out - it was probably making some connection that was needed for the payout reset :/ in hindsight I should have just left well enough alone LOL but it is what it is and now I'm stuck trying to figure out what those connections might have been - in my stupidity I even cut the wires a little too close to be able to even tell what they were -couple of grey wires and black wires
I'll take a pic of that button tomorrow
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the service button would have had yellow (30) and black/yellow (83-2) wires on it.
the black/yellow doesn't matter, but if the yellow had two wire segments, you need to make sure they are connected together. If they aren't, you've broken the wire 30 daisy chain and anything "downstream" won't work.
there's no way to know from the schem what order things were connected as wire 30 went from device to device, and the effects of a broken wire 30 can be very odd as sometimes the 6V lamp circuit connects into the 50V game logic circuits ... which can make some things work kinda but not others.
it would be bad if the wire 30 connection on the coin switch was bad. You can test with a meter on 30 on the coin switch and any handy 50V coil that you can poke orange wire 70 to see if you have around 50VAC. If you don't, wire 30 is probably broken.
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The switch definitely had two yellow wires on it - I've been trying to figure out the grey wires - thinking it might have been that - but I'll track down the yellow now!
Thanks!
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OK so here's a picture of where I *think* I am having a problem - just so I'm clear LOL I know I'm not using the right names for all of this stuff :)
the coil that's highlighted never activates, so the payout never resets... I can push this down and if I win I get a payout, but after that I never get any other payouts, because this never activates and resets the payout counter
I think my coin switch is working, I can trip the coin lever and it will reset the odds thing behind the top glass, and if I put in two coins it does move that one space to the right, so I think that's all working... but when I pull the handle, the payout counter is not reset (I think it would reset either on the coin drop OR the handle pull?)
Sorry if I confused things! :)
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Here's a picture of the back side of the coin multiplier (?) do these reed switches look like they are on the right side of the posts?
I also need to watch some tutorials on troubleshooting AC circuits LOL I'm more of a DC electronics person so this AC stuff is confusing me - it seems like everything is connected! LOL
I did measure the voltage at the payout reset coil and between either of the wires and it jumps around a lot but then kinda settles around 50v - which is why I need to watch some tutorials - I'm probably not measuring *anything* correctly :/
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the pin switches on the odds unit are a little weird due to the hack limiting the game to two coins.
if you want to put it back to 3 coins, you should just need the correct ratchet.
there are a couple switches in the circuit to reset the payout counter. You have a win meter on the game in the upper-right corner of the reel glass? If yes, does it reset to zeros when you drop in a coin?
if the win meter and the payout counter don't reset, it's probably the switch on the wiper side of the payout unit that in front of the spiral. It needs to be closed when the unit is not reset. You can jumper it closed to test.
if jumpering doesn't help, what's the win meter doing? Nothing on the odds unit will prevent the payout unit from resetting.
the grey wires on he switch were 95-6 and 97-6. The go to a terminal block in the upper compartment and were usually connected to a lamp in the candle assembly.
Again tho, if you clipped the yellow wires like the picture implies, you need to connect the two yellow wire segments together.
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There was an empty black box where the win meter should be, so I think it *used* to be there, but there is nothing there now and no wires nearby that are not connected - I've found a lot of wires that were not connected to anything, but they weren't near that win meter at the top of the door
I'll check the payout unit when I get home tonight
I've checked all my yellow wires and they are connected to each other
Thanks for all the ideas!
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If the machine is not taking the 3rd coin.
The unit that controls the coin in count is located behind the the top glass.
The switches in the center reset the unit.
Switches on the right step up the unit with each coin.
Manually operate the switches by depressing the switch armature.
As to see if it will function correctly.
The lights should move accordingly and are visible from behind when the light board is down.
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Thanks! I'm not really worried at all about the third coin - the glass was changed to two coins at some point and so for 3 coins I'd need new glass too and I'm fine with just the two coins :)
all those switches work correctly to reset and step up - the lights are currently disconnected anyway but I plan on putting some LEDs up there too - but that's for after I fix the payout :)
Thanks
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So I have 2 switches on that side of the payout counter - one is closed after winning and one is opened after winning - the picture is after winning...
The horizontal switch is closed and the vertical one is open... I confirmed they are the opposite after resetting (manually)
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So I did some more digging on the B switch y'all mentioned and it's a grey wire with brown marks - I tracked it down to one of the wires I had cut - I think off that unused switch or maybe a door switch (read that in the manual) - any ideas what color wire that *should* be connected to?
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Off the top of my head the grey/brown wire is associated with
a coin count meter mounted underneath the reels.
Will let you know for sure tomorrow.
Regarding the payout step unit.
It appears that the wires for the 10 14 and 18 payouts are missing
or on the other side.
Need a refresher on the exact payout problem.
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Payout never resets when I pull the handle, so after the first payout, it never pays out again
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the horizontal switch in front of the spiral cam should have orange/black (78-1) and yellow (30) wires on it. Clip a jumper to the 78-1 wire and run it out of the game and shove the hopper back in with the payout counter stepped up a few times.
take a voltmeter and put one probe on the end of the jumper and the other probe on orange wire 70 on any handy coil coin the door. Do you get 50VAC?
alternatively, just jumper the 30 and 78-1 wires together and see if the payout counter resets.
the grey/brown wire (96) went to the win meter. Since you don't have the win meter anymore, it will just be dangling there. That's ok. However, you can use it to see if the payout counter horizontal switch is ok. Stick a meter probe on the on the cut end of the wire and other probe on wire 70, then spin the reels. When the reel mech B-1 switch is closed, you should see 50VAC.
the reel mech B-3 switch is the one that resets the payout counter ... it has wires 78-1 and black/white wire 85-1 on it.
the vertical switch on the payout unit usually is called something like "open at xx carriage" on the schem, and it was used to make sure the wipers got far enough on higher pays for other traces to take over. I don't see it on the 1090 schem.
can you post a picture of the glass in your game? Pics of the entire front of the game would be good. If you're having problems posting big pics, you can email them at the highest possible resolution to slotpics@cdyn.com and I'll downsize them and post them.
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My Reel Mech B switch has only 2 switches there and only one has any wires going to it - one being that grey-brown (96) wire and the other a yellow wire - unless I completely don't understand which one is A B and C LOL but I'm going off that picture someone posted earlier in the thread with the A B C and Coin Relay Switch labels
If I jumper that grey-brown wire to my payout reset coil, it does seem to work - but that's not jiving with what you are telling me I *should* be seeing
I included the top glass pic too
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And the full front before I took it somewhat apart LOL
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On this 1090 schematic there are only two switches between the payout reset coil.
The B switch and the O stop switch.
The Zero "O" stop switch is mounted on the payout unit, same color as the spiral cam. Turquoise blue.
Also check the switch for movement, sometimes they get a little sluggish.
Best to check continuity on both.
Switches that appear to be closed do not always make continuity.
1 of the Grey Brown wires ends up at the win meter reset coil.
On this 1090 schematic there are only two switches between the payout reset coil.
The B switch and the O stop switch.
The Zero "O" stop switch is mounted on the payout unit, same color as the spiral cam. Turquoise blue.
Also check the switch for movement, sometimes they get a little sluggish.
Best to check continuity on both.
Switches that appear to be closed do not always make continuity.
1 of the Grey Brown wires ends up at the win meter reset coil.
The Pink behind the artwork was used by the Summit Company when they converted machines by adding control cards after removing 75% of the wires.
This machine could have been converted by Summit just as a 2 coin machine, keeping intact the basic stuff.
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well, I guess you have a sorta 1090 :-)
the schematic for a 1090 won't be completely correct, so you'll have to do some poking around.
you primarily want to know where the black/white wire attached to the payout unit reset coil is going. It may just loop around to the zero switch in front of the spiral cam. If so, what wire color is on the mating blade and where does that go?
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Thanks for all the help guys - yeah I DO have a PCB in the top that I thought was just for the 3 stop buttons in the front - they never worked so I figured that board was fried or something - but those three stop buttons don't seem to be standard either it seems - so it's almost a 1090 :)
That black/white wire goes into the harness and up the case in the back - I will hunt it down tomorrow! :)
almost there :)
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Looks like a Summit conversion with the pink and metal sides.
Is there a blue and silver tag below the handle?
Stop buttons activate hold coils on each reel. Mounted between the reels on the back of the chassis.
The PCB could be just a sound card if there’s a speaker mounted inside.
Photos of the interior would be interesting to see.
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Nope, no labels other than the ones at the top (first picture)
the PCB wires go to the buttons in the front and then a bundle goes inside the reel assembly - I'm assuming to the coils that activate the arm release coils - no speaker or bell at all
I've included a few pictures - in the top that thing in the center is my LED strip driver - other than that this is how it was when I got it
made myself new reels for fun :)
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I was wondering about the reel tapes. Great you were able to personalize the reels.
As for the reset problem. Check contacts suggested in earlier post.
Also check for continuity on all the other contacts on the payout step up unit.
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Good news! I traced ALL the wires around and found that everything was connected through this and that and finally figured out my grey/brown wire just needed to be connected to a ground (at least that what made it all start to work! Thanks for all the help guys!
Next adventure :)
I'm trying to make the 1 coin / 2 coin lights in the top half work right... When I took it apart there was a molex connector with 3 wires going to those top lights - I figured it would be easy enough to figure them out but it turns out I'm not figuring them out LOL - here's what I have
Black/White - Blue - Yellow
Trying to wire in a bulb to see what is what here's what I get...
B/W + Blue - no coin=on / 1 coin=off / 2 coins=on
Blue + Yellow - bulb is always on
B/W + Yellow - bulb is always off
Any ideas on how these should be wired?
I would think if I didn't have any coin in they'd be off - and then one coin would light the left and 2 coins light the right (and maybe the left stays on too)
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Good news! I traced ALL the wires around and found that everything was connected through this and that and finally figured out my grey/brown wire just needed to be connected to a ground (at least that what made it all start to work! Thanks for all the help guys!
hmmm ... that may be kinda cheating, but it does depend on how the game got wired. In the image below, yellow wire 30 is neutral (ground if ya wanna think of it like that), and orange wire 70 is the 50V hot wire.
the circuit is supposed to go along the blue highlight path thru the payout counter '0' switch. When the payout counter is reset because the previous spin wasn't a win, that switch is open and the payout counter reset coil is not powered.
if you connected wire 96 to 30 like the purple highlight, then in theory the payout counter reset coil will reset on every spin ... which is not a big deal, just more wear-n-tear than necessary.
'course, your game may not be wired like the below schematic, so the only point of this post is ideally you want the '0' switch (in front of the blue spiral cam) to be in the circuit.
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I'm trying to make the 1 coin / 2 coin lights in the top half work right... When I took it apart there was a molex connector with 3 wires going to those top lights - I figured it would be easy enough to figure them out but it turns out I'm not figuring them out LOL - here's what I have
Black/White - Blue - Yellow
Trying to wire in a bulb to see what is what here's what I get...
B/W + Blue - no coin=on / 1 coin=off / 2 coins=on
Blue + Yellow - bulb is always on
B/W + Yellow - bulb is always off
Any ideas on how these should be wired?
I would think if I didn't have any coin in they'd be off - and then one coin would light the left and 2 coins light the right (and maybe the left stays on too)
blue is wire 20 ... the "hot" 6V power.
yellow is wire 30 ... the neutral/ground wire.
one side of the lamp is always connected to wire 20. The other side of the lamp is eventually connected to wire 30 when the lamp is supposed to be on.
some games always turned on the 1st coin lights ... they didn't bother run it thru the coin unit disc. In effect, the first coin lights were GI (general illumination - always on).
usually on multiplier games the payout column moved appropriately and only one was lit. On other style games like buy-a-pays, the stuff stays lit and more things get lit as coins are played.
you want the 2nd coin lamp to have wire 20 on one side (probably a bare wire running between lamps), and the black/white wire 85-4 on the other side. When the coin unit is reset, that's = 1 coin played. When the coin units steps up once, it connects 85-4 to 30 and turns on the 2nd coin lamps.
on a normal 1090, there's a grey/white 95-4 wire going from the coin unit to the 1st coin lamps that is connected to 30 when the unit is reset. The 1st coin pays turn off when the 2nd coin is played.
I guess it's your call whether you want the lights to move between 1 coin and 2 coin payouts, or everything to be lit when you play the 2nd coin. If you want to lights to move, you'll need to look at the coin unit wiring.
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The 2nd and 3rd coin light up individually as the coins are inserted.
Pretty sure the coin unit in the top illuminate the corresponding light as it advances.
If you were to insulate the wipers from the contacts one at a time.
This would help find the contact that lights the first coin.
In theory the next coin advances the unit to the second coin light(s).
But first.
Best to swap bulbs to be sure they work.
Don’t want to spend time try to figure out what is wrong, when it’s only a bad bulb or socket.
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ideally you want the '0' switch (in front of the blue spiral cam) to be in the circuit.
That is definitely in the circuit - I traced the wire from the payout counter (not the orange one, sorry don't remember the color) - through the plugs, up to the reel mech, to the first reel - winner pads (not sure what that is called but it's the first of three thing with the grid of pads...) - when the handle is pulled all the way this connects this wire to one that goes back to the plug and down to the switch on the spiral cam side - the other side of that switch goes back into the plug and up to the reel mech B switch, and finally the other side of that comes out and is the wire I cut...
I also only have the one Reel Mech B switch - not sure if it used to be 1 or 3 LOL - but I am certain my machine is not wired to that schematic exactly - I have no idea why they would pipe the circuit through the gird of pads, would that maybe be to prevent a half pull or something? because without a full pull all the way the payout would not reset the way this is wired... weird!
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Thanks for the help too on the light wiring in the top - I'll take a look tomorrow with the new knowledge :)
I'm also not using the original bulbs - everything is getting replaced with LED bulbs :)
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ideally you want the '0' switch (in front of the blue spiral cam) to be in the circuit.
That is definitely in the circuit - I traced the wire from the payout counter (not the orange one, sorry don't remember the color) - through the plugs, up to the reel mech, to the first reel - winner pads (not sure what that is called but it's the first of three thing with the grid of pads...) - when the handle is pulled all the way this connects this wire to one that goes back to the plug and down to the switch on the spiral cam side - the other side of that switch goes back into the plug and up to the reel mech B switch, and finally the other side of that comes out and is the wire I cut...
I also only have the one Reel Mech B switch - not sure if it used to be 1 or 3 LOL - but I am certain my machine is not wired to that schematic exactly - I have no idea why they would pipe the circuit through the gird of pads, would that maybe be to prevent a half pull or something? because without a full pull all the way the payout would not reset the way this is wired... weird!
I guess "grid of pads" is the reel wiper board (reel wiper contact plate).
the usual reason a reel mech B switch would go into a wiper board is to control a hopper mixer relay. The hopper mixer relay was used on some "jackpot only" style games. Those game types paid much less frequently, but when they did they paid more.
the problem is that since the payouts are much less frequent, the hopper doesn't turn on as often and deposited coins can kinda stack up and possibly overflow the bowl edge. To get around that, the hopper mixer relay would burp the hopper. Typically when reel 1 stopped on some blanks, the hopper mixer relay would power while the reel mech B switch was closed and turn on the hopper motor so the coins get churned in the bowl. The override solenoid was not powered, so no coins were ejected.
having babbled all that, I would have thought the wide reel games all used the new style hopper that didn't have an override solenoid, so it's not possible to burp those.
seems like someone was using an earlier style machine as a reference for rewiring your game and did some stuff that wasn't needed.
since you don't have a win meter, you only need one reel mech B switch and it should be wired per the previously posted schematics. Any wires going up to the reel wipers can be removed.
you could make your life easy and have the circuit be:
- wire 30 (on reels) to switch B
- other switch B blade wire 78-1 to the zero switch in front of spiral cam
- other zero switch blade to payout counter reset coil
however, then your game wouldn't match any schematic, so I'd just wire it like the blue highlight path in post 31 using the correct wire colors (if available) and the next person to look at your game won't have to figure it out :-)
btw, you can't do a partial pull on the handle. There should be a ratcheting piece that prevents the handle from going back up until the reels have kicked off.