New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games => Topic started by: 850mph on October 18, 2023, 01:49:45 PM
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Well… I have two machines… 1 working, 1 needing new chips— which I have.
Before I get into swapping boards and chips around….
I took the last two days to rip apart the working machine to understand what goes where, how to pull lamps, etc.
I also took the time to figure out the crazy S+ diagnostic system.
I think I understand 97.67% of the machine.
I just can’t get the Bill validator to work:
WBA-12-SS
Bezel lights up, validator eats AND SPITS OUT any note I feed it.
I am right in assuming this BV should take all US bills (new and old) except $100s, right?
Where should I start?
Thnx.
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Does the BV work in the other machine?
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The other machine has a different bill validator…
DBV-200-SS
The other machine (still) does not work…
I’m trying to figure out the one that plays/pays correctly first.
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What firmware is in the WBA?
Try this...>>>
https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=31638.0
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My bad….
Didn’t realize there was a forum topic devoted to this.
Switching focus now.
Thnx
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Just to continue this thread so info is in one place…..
I was able to run the Auto calibration test on my unit by creating a “calibration card.”
After the unit accepts the card, and moves it in and out 4 or 5 times, the bill input bezel flashes RAPIDLY — indicating the calibration was successful.
But the machine will still NOT accept an uncirculated $1 bill from 1988.
Members have pointed out the validator has very old 2.xxx software.
I CAN enter “test” mode— that indicates to me it’s NOT a bad cpu/board…
And the docs say, the board may be good bu the Flash/EPROM chip might STILL be corrupt.
Should I go ahead and perform all the other validator tests, ie Head Sensor and Transport Sensor tests…?
Should I just order the updated chip and cross my fingers it will correct the problem?
Thnx.
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what is the result of the stand alone test, does it accept any money??
Jim
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When I do the “Stand Alone Bill Test”
I remove unit and set CORRECT test dips to ON position
I power on machine
I insert Bill Validator
I flip dip 8 to OFF position
I insert uncirculated $1 bill
Bill is taken in and spit back out almost immediately
Test results as follows:
Without Cash Box and Frame (dips 1, 2, 3 & 8 )
The bezel Flashes Two Times
With Cash Box and Frame(dips 1,2,3,4 & 8 )
The bezel Flashes Two Times
I’m a bit confused as to which error chart to look at to understand error results…?
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I remove unit and set CORRECT test dips to ON position
I power on machine
I insert Bill Validator...
You're confused in how to perform the test.
The validator must be inserted BEFORE turning on the power.
Re-read the instuctions.
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I’m following instructions posted on this forum here:
https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=31638.0
I’ll give the WBA manual another closer read and try again as you suggest.
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Yes...I posted that link in Reply #3.
In Reply #7, you stated that you inserted the BV...while the power was on.
That's a good way to burn out stuff.
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THANKS for sticking with this.
Here’s the quote from the link on this board which outlines how to get into “Bill Acceptance Mode.”
https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=31638.0
<quote from thread>
Remove the cash can. All dip switches should be in the up position before you start.
Now, flip 1-2-3 and 8 down, install the bill unit in the machine, turn power on to the machine.
Now, flip #8 up, (while the unit is in place) the unit should briefly cycle.
Now you can insert bills into the unit.
IF THE UNIT IS WORKING, IT WILL PULL THE BILL INTO THE UNIT AND DEPOSIT IT WHERE THE CASH CAN SHOULD BE.
You should be able to test any bill in the unit, this can also be used to determine what bills the unit will
<end quote>
I have included a pix of a portion of the JCR manual for the same procedure below.
IMPORTANT
THE TWO METHODS ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT
The post implies that:
1) The diagnostic DIPS are changed BEFORE power is applied to the unit and before DIP 8 is flipped up/Off to activate test
Order of actions: Power down > Flip diagnostic DIPS ON and DIP 8 0N > Power Unit > Flip DIP 8 OFF
The manual reads the opposite:
1) Flip DIP 8 to activate test, apply power, then flip diagnostic DIPs
Order of actions: Power Down > Flip Dip 8 ON> Power Unit > Flip diagnostic DIPs ON
Am I reading this wrong?
Are the two methods equivalent?
As you suggest I don’t want to burn out be board…
Truthfully I can’t remember which method I tried yesterday, but I’m inclined to think it was the BOARDs method… Not JCMs.
IMPORTANT #2
The calibration docs are not as obtuse or confusing to me.
Calibration is easily done (at least on my unit)
They require only to: Power Off > flip the diagnostic DIPs > Power On
My eyes are dizzy from reading and rereading both manual and board….
Comments?
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Did you set the machines' denomination, and enabled the BV with the proper SET chip?
Which SP chip is installed?
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I have NOT set anything with a SET chip, which I do have.
I’ll have to check on what the last owner configured for BV and Denom…
Need to wait till 10am here in NYC.
But the machine plays fine, accepting credits (which drop through CC-16) with bent out rake.
Comments on difference between post a manual….??
Which is the proper procedure… manual or post?
Or maybe they have the same effect (I doubt it, though.)
I think the manual, although very specific, takes WORDING short cuts here and there and assumes us noobies know more than we do…
THNX for taking time to educate me and sort me out.
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The machine I am working on:
Diamond Tens
SP731
SS7841
Regular Play Board DIPs
DIPS 1-2-3-4 set to OFF
DIPS 5-6-7-8 set to ON
Regular Play Bill Acceptor DIPs
DIPS 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 set to OFF
I have Set Chip #015
— I have Not used set chip, current settings are from last user
Machine Takes .25 cent credits, plays and payouts correctly.
“OPTIONS” and “SELF TESTS” and “INPUT TESTS” and “OUTPUT TESTS” seem to work.
Current Tests/SetUp which may involve VALIDATOR are below:
OPTIONS FOR GAME
Denomination= .25
Max Hopper Pay=0040: (ie: 40)
Bill Accumulation Limit=9999 (ie: 9999)
Partial Payout=0030 (ie: 30)
SELF TEST SETTINGS
—0 Credit Mode= “No Credit”
8-1 Bill Acceptor Pay Mode= “Bills to Credit”
9-1 Acceptor Display= “On”
16-0 Bill Acceptor Tilt= “No Tilt”
INPUT TESTS
Test #15- Bill Acceptor- Accepts $1 Bill, takes it in, spits it back out
OUTPUT TESTS
Test #14 - Bill Acceptor Lights- Works, Lights up Validator light
Still looking for confirmation on the proper way to test set up DBV… thnx.
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Set MPU board dips to: 123 ON - 4 thru 8 OFF
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To me…
These are funny looking DIPs…
Let’s make sure we are on the same page….
1-4 look OFF to me.
5-8 look ON to me.
See pix…..
Shall I go ahead and flip as you suggest?
Thnx
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1 thru 4 are on. Turn #4 off.
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Ok I see how these DIPs work…
DEPRESS to turn ON.
So we are turning on:
DIPS 1-2 = Programable Hopper Size in Self Test Mode
DIP 3 = Reel Spin Sounds
This type of board switch looked a little funny to me.
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Done.
The machine still accepts quarters, plays and credits correctly.
Back to Bill Validator, in light of the settings Ive posted above, I don’t see anything else that can change on the machine…..
I’m still looking for comments on my post #11 in this thread which seems to indicate an inconsistency with getting the validator into diagnostic mode…
I don’t want to just flip DIPs on the Validator again until someone can confirm the proper procedure to do the diagnostics….?
Everyone here is VERY helpful.. And perhaps the proper path forward WAS pointed out…. But I’m just taking “ginger” steps….. I don’t want to blow things up.
Thanks.
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Yes dip #4 turned ON on the MPU can cause the BV to do strange things, like turn it into a change machine. (low hopper limit will reject bill. A low credit limit can do the same)
Why do you have a split pay setup? That could be part of the problem?
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I just figured making the maximum hopper higher than the partial payout was THE conservative option— as we would never hit/expect maximum from hopper…. Is that wrong?
I’m not trying to be tricky or custom build the prefs or anything— I’m just trying to get the thing to work… as simply as possible…. Before I move on to a second machine with no Display LEDs.
Im a COMPLETE Newbie to the Slot World, after 30 years of pinball machines…
Maybe you could suggest Maximum Hopper and Partial Pay numbers and I’ll reset.
At least at that point I’ll KNOW it’s a Bill Validator “thing.”
THANKS.
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SP731? Hopper limit and credit limit setting is the same. Set to 9999 and partial to 0000 for now to make sure it's not a limit thing.
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get the wba flip cards in the file section, go to page 12 and read what it tells you to do, plain and simple.
it either works or it doesn't,
Jim
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I have the Flip-Cards:
https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=18866.0
I have the JCM manual for the WBA, referring to page A9:
https://get-t.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/203408130-Wba-Manual-Despiece.pdf
I have the JCM Quick Reference Guide for the WBA, referring to page 4:
https://manualzz.com/doc/25919478/jcm®-wba®-units-quick-reference-guide-rev.-5
And I have read dozens of forum posts relating to the Validator, but for conversation I’m referring to this post:
https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=31638.0
IMPORTANT
Now, I don’t want to belabor the point because EVERYONE on this forum is gracious, knowledgeable, has dozens of years experience, is SUPER friendly and generous with their time….
And I add these comments with the full knowledge I may be reading things wrong…
I’m also not trying to “stick it to anyone—“ (I couldn’t think of a better phrase) —
I AM trying to add to the general knowledge the forum provides because a COLD READ of all the Docs, Forum Posts and other related material, looking to answer what should be a simple question, may result in confusion… it did in my case.
Especially for newbies who TRY and read — and more importantly —UNDERSTAND everything before wasting long time member’s time with questions which are easily answered in past forum posts.
TO THE POINT
As far as I can tell there *** IS *** a difference with the PROCEDURE presented in the Forum Posts, the procedure in the WBA Full Manual and the procedure in the WBA Quick Guide as to:
How to enter “Bill Acceptance Test Mode”
(And related Performance, Diagnostic, Modes)
(However, NOT Calibration Mode)
The **END RESULTS** of the procedures (let’s just say, “correct order” of STEPS) outlined in the forum post and the Quick Guide are EQUIVALENT…. The full manual’s procedure as explained in “Acceptance Test,” not so much.)
But the STEPs are different and was/is confusing (perhaps detrimental) when comparing three “authoritative” sources.
PLEASE see post 11 above.
CORRECT order of actions to correspond to JCM, WBA Quick Guide:
Power Down > Flip DIP 8 ON> Power Unit > Flip diagnostic DIPs ON to correspond with test you need > Flip DIP 8 OFF
IMPORTANT
It’s a subtle, but I think important point because referring back to the WBA Full Manual or Quick Guide to do the more extensive tests (head sensor, transport sensor) requires flipping a sequence of TWO DIPs to initiate a test:
1) enter test mode— DIP 8
- flip diagnostic DIPs (which may include DIP 8 )
2) initiate the test— DIP 6 or 7
SUBTLE MAIN POINT
But it’s the step where we APPLY POWER which concerns me— either BEFORE or AFTER we set the diagnostic DIPs.
The Steps outlined in the forum thread have the result of powering up the validator in some UNKNOWN state because the DIP switched were applied BEFORE the power up.
I get it… by powering up with DIP 8 ON we enter a diagnostic mode…. So maybe the othe dips are not recognized until we flip the “initiation” DiP….
That confuses me… perhaps not the old timers.
I’m sure no one wants to get into a long discussion of why the CORRECT ORDER of doing things is important, especially with a newbie, (and probably more importantly because the outcome of this test is the same either way) but when you are dealing with PC Boards, and power supplies…in my experience, you want to get it right… or you’ll blow more than a fuse.
There are a couple of other reasons it’s kinda nice to “think” about the diagnostic system as presented in the manual… but I’m sure very few would care… so I’ll skip it.
Maybe I think too much.. No I’m SURE I do…. But at least pointing this out may help someone else who is confused.
If anyone feels this post is inappropriate, or is giving the wrong info— Moderators, PLEASE take it down… I’m happy to be corrected, as I realize I’m visiting at the feet of experts.
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The flip cards you referenced in your post are S+ Diagnostic Cards. The one Jim is referring to is JCM's WBA Flip cards. I've attached the one he is referring to this post. It's in the file section, but you have to be a contributing member in order to access that section (you may want to consider becoming one, it helps keeps the site up). Follow the instructions on page 12. If you notice is says it tests the head and transport only, so remove the cash can. It also said to perform the test outside of the machine. Since you don't have a test harness (and I don't either), just remove the MPU board from the machine. This will prevent the machine from trying to communicate with the validator while it's in test mode and then essentially the only thing active and connected to the validator is the power. Then follow the directions as printed. I just verified them myself with my machine and they are correct.
Let us know how that works out.
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THANKS for the verification.
I would guess any new tests will confirm my previous test….
Bill Acceptance Test Without Cash Box
Bezel shows:
Two blinks- pause - Two blinks - repeat
Magnetic Pattern Error
I am anxious to try the tests with the board out as you suggest.
Will report back.
Thank you for the follow up.