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Author Topic: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)  (Read 6604 times)

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Offline DavidLee

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2021, 09:00:09 PM »
Have you cleaned the payout relay? Top left rear of hopper.
Also the wiper boards might need to be cleaned.

Offline Rod71

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2021, 11:16:07 PM »
Have you cleaned the payout relay? Top left rear of hopper.


Yeah those switches seem good.  I noticed the zero switch on the front of the stepper isn't making contact at step one, so I will have a look closer at that tomorrow :)

Offline wolftalk

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2021, 12:41:47 PM »
I noticed the zero switch on the front of the stepper isn't making contact at step one, so I will have a look closer at that tomorrow :)

the zero switch by the spiral cam usually just disconnects the payout counter reset coil so it doesn't fire when the unit is already reset.

it just needs to be closed when the payout counter is at the minimum pay position, so it's not essential that it closes at the first step .

your game has a separate payout relay for the tunnel?  If so, circus models 928 / 931 wouldn't be good "similar' games.

Offline Rod71

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2021, 03:25:41 PM »

your game has a separate payout relay for the tunnel?  If so, circus models 928 / 931 wouldn't be good "similar' games.

I'm guessing that is the case as it pays out only in tunnel mode.

So the hopper is really different compared to my Circus.  Way lighter, and it doesn't have the payout relay, so it must be in the insert.  The switches I checked and cleaned before were for the reset coil.

The hopper also doesn't have the hopper full golf ball switch, so i'm not sure how it determines that.  When I first powered it on the LED payout counter was at like 226 and all inserted cons would divert instead of going into the hopper.  When I forced it into tunnel mode, it started paying out and then the coins would go into the hopper.  I've cleaned up the stepper so it resets a lot easier now.

Anyway, so there's 5 relays in the insert, none of which are labeled.  Is there an easy way to determine the payout relay going by certain wire colours etc?


Offline Rod71

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2021, 04:23:49 PM »
Oh man.  Just looking at the hopper again and had a sinking feeling that maybe someone has removed the payout relay, as the mounting holes are there.  But the rear of the beau plug is pretty much full of wires, and there's no loose ends from what I can tell. 

So looking at my Circus, there's 4 relays in the insert, and golden gate has 5.

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving to my American friends :)

Offline Rod71

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2021, 08:50:32 PM »
Time to stop overthinking, and wipe the white board clean lol.

So why would it only pay out in the tunnel feature.  Well all you need for a pay in the bonus pulls is a target on reel 3.

Hmmm, so for any other pays to register in normal game mode, Reel 1 has to be functional, otherwise nothing will pay.  Makes sense!  Lets have a closer look.

The pic below shows the wiper for the second line of rivets is bent back and not making contact at all.  Same with the 3rd one to a lesser degree.

What is the best way to straighten these out without mangling them?




Offline wolftalk

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2021, 12:56:26 AM »
if the wiper fingers are mangled, I just remove the wiper from the arm so you can straighten the fingers and make them all "droop" the same amount so the tension against the rivets is even.


Offline Rod71

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2021, 06:13:41 PM »
Progress!
So after adjusting the wiper switches we now have it paying out.

Only issues now are that it overpays by 2 coins.  4 for 1 cherry.  12 for 3 oranges etc.

Also, it's diverting coins away from the hopper again.  The coin lockout coil on the door makes a racket, so manipulating the metal piece shuts it up for a short period of time. 

As I mentioned earlier, the hopper doesn't have the golf ball switch, so i'm not sure how it knows when it's full.  But as it's from 1978 it does have a coins paid meter on the reel glass with what looks like red LED digits.  Sometimes it resets back to zero after a pay, and other times it doesn't.  Not sure if that is related to overpaying, coins diverting away from the hopper etc.

Cheers
Rod

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2021, 02:55:07 PM »
The hopper looks like the newer style, it does not have the wiffle ball.  The weight of the coins in the bowel will trip the switch to divert coins.

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2021, 07:11:52 PM »
The hopper looks like the newer style, it does not have the wiffle ball.  The weight of the coins in the bowel will trip the switch to divert coins.

Ah!  That explains the switch on the base of it :)

Gave it a bit of a tweak and coins are going into the hopper now.  Thanks!

Overpaying and counter reset to go :)

Offline wolftalk

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2021, 01:00:52 AM »
for the overpay, is the zero stop bumper misadjusted, worn, melted, or whatever and the payout counter wipers are resetting too far counter-clockwise?

if you manually step up the payout counter, the wipers should step off the 2 trace on the second step, step off the 10 trace on the 10th, etc.

the zero stop bumper is the pencil eraser type thing the green wedge on the spiral cam hits when the unit is reset.

I dunno if a led meter would be original to the machine, but in any case there should be a power wire, a reset wire and an increment wire going to the meter.

a typical 50V EM win meter would be wire 70 for the power, wire 84 for increment and wire 96 for reset.    Wire 84 was sometimes the wire on the payout counter step-up coil.

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2021, 03:26:13 PM »
for the overpay, is the zero stop bumper misadjusted, worn, melted, or whatever and the payout counter wipers are resetting too far counter-clockwise?

if you manually step up the payout counter, the wipers should step off the 2 trace on the second step, step off the 10 trace on the 10th, etc.

the zero stop bumper is the pencil eraser type thing the green wedge on the spiral cam hits when the unit is reset.


Yep it's manually stepping up correctly and stepping off the trace.  Bumper seems to be OK.

But goofing around with it I observed the following.   If I remove the first 2 coins from the hopper, the one under the roller, and the next one.  It will pay out correctly on all pays except the 4 highest ones

On the higher pays I'm getting 25 instead of 50 and 85 instead of 100 etc.  I think this is a seperate issue from the 2 coin overpay.

Also I'm getting a lot of hopper jams once there's say more than 50 coins in the bowl.  Am I missing a part?

You're right about the coin counter.  Just looked at other examples online and they don't have this counter.  It actually looks like the ones they used on the late 70s Aristocrats over here.  No idea why you'd swap that over.  It does look neat though :)

Rod




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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2021, 06:48:17 PM »
Looks like I'm missing the agitator for the hopper.

Offline wolftalk

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2021, 09:20:02 PM »
yup on needing the agitator.

the game had a mechanical win paid meter, so someone replaced it with an led one.

overpay by a couple coins sounds like a gummed up hopper brake.  When pay is done, the brake stops the motor armature/rotor from spinning and the pinwheel stops immediately.

when the brake isn't working, the pinwheel will coast to a stop and eject extra coins.

large pays stopping early sounds like an issue with the C.O. (carryover) trace on the payout counter disc.  The outboard wiper fingers get the pay going, but they don't move precisely enough for an exact pay.  The outboard fingers leave the winning trace a few steps early and the CO trace finishes the pay to the exact amount.

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2021, 03:30:36 PM »


overpay by a couple coins sounds like a gummed up hopper brake.  When pay is done, the brake stops the motor armature/rotor from spinning and the pinwheel stops immediately.

when the brake isn't working, the pinwheel will coast to a stop and eject extra coins.




That does sound logical.  However it kind of goes against my observation of it paying correctly if i remove the first 2 coins from the pinwheel.

I found a guy with exactly the same problem on the forum back in 2014. 

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2225.0

The issue was the B switches on the mech.  So I will take a look at that when I get a chance and report back :)

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2021, 10:05:25 PM »
interesting ...

usually a reel mech C switch prevents win detection until the reel mech is nearly at rest after the spin.  The B switch should have reset the payout counter well before that happens.

the B switch closes twice - once during the windup and again as the clock is letting the linkage return to rest.  The second time should be ignored because the zero switch on the payout counter should be open.  If your C switch closed way early tho, I guess the game could start paying - which would close the zero switch, then B resets the payout counter again.


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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2021, 03:10:27 PM »
interesting ...

usually a reel mech C switch prevents win detection until the reel mech is nearly at rest after the spin.  The B switch should have reset the payout counter well before that happens.

the B switch closes twice - once during the windup and again as the clock is letting the linkage return to rest.  The second time should be ignored because the zero switch on the payout counter should be open.  If your C switch closed way early tho, I guess the game could start paying - which would close the zero switch, then B resets the payout counter again.

I've noticed that when it pays, it pays like instantly as the 3rd reel indexes.  On my Circus, there's a slight delay, like 1/3 of a second.

Also looking at the switch stack in the pic below, does it look like the whole stack is kind of leaning to the right when it's in the home position?

Is manually pushing the timer link by hand enough to simulate a reel spin?  If so, i can make a video.

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2021, 06:41:42 PM »
the only reference I have at the moment is my 929.

see https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/pushing_timer_link.mp4

I'd compare to that and your other games.

you do have an extra switch on the B stack that is operated by a peg on the timer link (vs. the stack riding on the top edge of the link).  No schematic, so don't know what it's doing.  Looks like you have a B-1 switch with orange/black and fat yellow wire (30) on the blades.  That would be the same as circus, and that's the switch resetting the payout counter.  'course it's behind the extra switch so can't see it :-)

your C stack does look tilted in a way that would make the switches operate faster, but that could just be camera angle.  B-1 should not be closed when the peg is pushing the C stack.

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2021, 11:53:12 PM »


you do have an extra switch on the B stack that is operated by a peg on the timer link (vs. the stack riding on the top edge of the link).  No schematic, so don't know what it's doing. 

Ha!  Neither do I, but I adjusted it to make it close a little later and it went from a 2 coin overpay to a 1 coin overpay :)

Gave it another tweak and it's all good!

Cleaning the other B switches helped with the pay counter resetting after a win.

Final issue is the underpay on the pays of 50 and above.  I'll take a look at the CO trace on the hopper and report back :)

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Re: Bally 1133-1 Golden Gate (Australian)
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2022, 06:40:38 PM »
Hi Rod,
Hope you come back and visit this forum as I may be able to help you. I have the exact same machine and am also in Australia! We can compare machines and supply pictures etc. I have a small drama with a burnt diode and resistor I need a hand with to.. If you see this feel free to email me back. I Added you as a buddy but you don’t have an email address listed to contact you with. Cheers Brett

 

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