Hi - I Inherited a Bally 1090 from 1975

[GeeksGoneBad]

Title says it all - my uncle passed around Christmas last year and I've inherited a Bally 1090 from 1975. It was somewhat working and I've tinkered with it to get it working and then I thought I would upgrade it with like LEDS and new reel pictures and I've probably fixed it and broken it 3 times now LOL

Currently in a broken state

but I'll figure it out - basically right now the payout counter doesn't reset

just really marking my territory here thanks for letting me join here!

Jamie

[wolftalk]

if you don't have the schematic, what's the full model number on the plate below the handle?

generally on a 1090, the payout counter reset coil just has a payout counter "open at 0" switch and a reel mech B-3 switch in the circuit.

usually the open-at-zero switch is the one in front of the spiral cam on the payout counter.  It should be open at reset to prevent unnecessary firing of the reset coil and ideally closed on step 1+ of the payout counter.   In practice, it needs to be closed after the minimum payout, so there's some wiggle room to cheat a little on the switch adjust.

[GeeksGoneBad]

Thanks! Yeah the little metal sticker on the side of the machine just says 1090 no dash or other numbers

I looked at a few schematics but the coin multiplier device isn't the same as the pictures that are in the same folder so I'm not sure if the schematic is right or the coin thingy was maybe swapped out with a different one - it only takes 2 coins, not 3 like most of the 1090 stuff I see... so I think I probably have something that's been modified throughout the years

Sorry I don't know most of the terms yet, can you explain "reel mech B-3 switch" ?

[David Walz]

This is my baby. A Bally Model: 1090-29, Serial number: 1090-4012, Model type: 3 coin multiplier, Coin: 25¢, Year: 07/17/1979.
I restored it back to factory condition.

[wolftalk]

Thanks! Yeah the little metal sticker on the side of the machine just says 1090 no dash or other numbers

I looked at a few schematics but the coin multiplier device isn't the same as the pictures that are in the same folder so I'm not sure if the schematic is right or the coin thingy was maybe swapped out with a different one - it only takes 2 coins, not 3 like most of the 1090 stuff I see... so I think I probably have something that's been modified throughout the years

Sorry I don't know most of the terms yet, can you explain "reel mech B-3 switch" ?

I think david lee has some nice labelled pictures of the left side of the reel mech, so hopefully he'll wander by soon. 

if ya look at the left side of the reel mech ... with the clock/fan on it ... there's a couple stacks of vertical switches and a horizontal stack kinda in between them.  Stack B is the horizontal stack, and switch 3 is the 3rd switch up from the frame.

B-3 with have an orange/black (78-1) and black/white (85-1) wire on it. 78-1 goes to the payout counter zero switch thu a couple plug connections.

fwiw, stack A is the rear vertical stack, and C is the other vertical. 

if your glass is modified to only be a two coin game, you'll have to live with it or source another glass.   The base 1090 was a straight multiplier ... no bonus payout for playing max coins ... so there's no real advantage to playing more than one coin.

looks like the 1090 did not have an easy way to misadjust a switch to limit the game to two coins, so swapping out the coin unit is reasonable.  The replacement should be pretty straightforward ... unless they changed the payouts so it's not a straight multiplier anymore.

[DavidLee]

A, B, C-coin relay switch stack.
The coin switch is activated by the first coin in, thus setting the machine to play.

Hopefully the photo is clear enough to help out.

Pretty sure the odds step up is located behind the top glass.
It’s possible to step up the machine by manually activating  one of the 3 coils on the rack.
Believe it’s the far right one.
Or step up the unit itself by depressing the the step up coil plunger.

Side note,
If the belly glass is true to the machine.
There is a good chance my grandfather serviced the machine back in the day.
Possibly I might of tried my luck on the machine. Back then this was an expensive machine to play.

[GeeksGoneBad]

Sorry for the lag in reply LOL I need to turn on notifications I think

So I looked at the coin multiplier thing in the top and they actually grinded away the gears/teeth so more coins would not advance the arms LOL - I'm OK with just two coins, this is just going to be for fun for me anyway

I'll take a look at the items you mentioned - thanks for the advice!

It would be too cool if your grandfather serviced this machine and you've played it - small world!

Thanks,
Jamie

[DavidLee]

If possible post a few photos of the unit in question.
Reset position and last coin position would be helpful photos.

The white ratchet wheel / gear in some cases have a section that has been removed.
This prevents it from stepping up any further.
Possibly there’s a set of contacts that are opening to soon on the unit.

[GeeksGoneBad]

I can take some pictures for sure

the problem is *probably* because I removed a few things I thought were not needed - there was a button, call service I think, that was actually hidden behind the front panel, so I figured it wasn't in use and took it out - it was probably making some connection that was needed for the payout reset :/ in hindsight I should have just left well enough alone LOL but it is what it is and now I'm stuck trying to figure out what those connections might have been - in my stupidity I even cut the wires a little too close to be able to even tell what they were -couple of grey wires and black wires

I'll take a pic of that button tomorrow

[wolftalk]

the service button would have had yellow (30) and black/yellow (83-2) wires on it.

the black/yellow doesn't matter, but if the yellow had two wire segments, you need to make sure they are connected together.  If they aren't, you've broken the wire 30 daisy chain and anything "downstream" won't work. 

there's no way to know from the schem what order things were connected as wire 30 went from device to device, and the effects of a broken wire 30 can be very odd as sometimes the 6V lamp circuit connects into the 50V game logic circuits ... which can make some things work kinda but not others. 

it would be bad if the wire 30 connection on the coin switch was bad. You can test with a meter on 30 on the coin switch and any handy 50V coil that you can poke orange wire 70 to see if you have around 50VAC.  If you don't, wire 30 is probably broken.

[GeeksGoneBad]

The switch definitely had two yellow wires on it - I've been trying to figure out the grey wires - thinking it might have been that - but I'll track down the yellow now!

Thanks!

[GeeksGoneBad]

OK so here's a picture of where I *think* I am having a problem - just so I'm clear LOL I know I'm not using the right names for all of this stuff

the coil that's highlighted never activates, so the payout never resets... I can push this down and if I win I get a payout, but after that I never get any other payouts, because this never activates and resets the payout counter

I think my coin switch is working, I can trip the coin lever and it will reset the odds thing behind the top glass, and if I put in two coins it does move that one space to the right, so I think that's all working... but when I pull the handle, the payout counter is not reset (I think it would reset either on the coin drop OR the handle pull?)

Sorry if I confused things!

[GeeksGoneBad]

Here's a picture of the back side of the coin multiplier (?) do these reed switches look like they are on the right side of the posts?

I also need to watch some tutorials on troubleshooting AC circuits LOL I'm more of a DC electronics person so this AC stuff is confusing me - it seems like everything is connected! LOL

I did measure the voltage at the payout reset coil and between either of the wires and it jumps around a lot but then kinda settles around 50v - which is why I need to watch some tutorials - I'm probably not measuring *anything* correctly :/

[wolftalk]

the pin switches on the odds unit are a little weird due to the hack limiting the game to two coins.

if you want to put it back to 3 coins, you should just need the correct ratchet.

there are a couple switches in the circuit to reset the payout counter.  You have a win meter on the game in the upper-right corner of the reel glass?  If yes, does it reset to zeros when you drop in a coin?

if the win meter and the payout counter don't reset, it's probably the switch on the wiper side of the payout unit that in front of the spiral.  It needs to be closed when the unit is not reset.  You can jumper it closed to test.

if jumpering doesn't help, what's the win meter doing?  Nothing on the odds unit will prevent the payout unit from resetting.

the grey wires on he switch were 95-6 and 97-6.  The go to a terminal block in the upper compartment and were usually connected to a lamp in the candle assembly.

Again tho, if you clipped the yellow wires like the picture implies, you need to connect the two yellow wire segments together.

[GeeksGoneBad]

There was an empty black box where the win meter should be, so I think it *used* to be there, but there is nothing there now and no wires nearby that are not connected - I've found a lot of wires that were not connected to anything, but they weren't near that win meter at the top of the door

I'll check the payout unit when I get home tonight

I've checked all my yellow wires and they are connected to each other

Thanks for all the ideas!

[DavidLee]

If the machine is not taking the 3rd coin.
The unit that controls the coin in count is located behind the the top glass.

The switches in the center reset the unit.

Switches on the right step up the unit with each coin.

Manually operate the switches by depressing the switch armature.
As to see if it will function correctly.

The lights should move accordingly and are visible from behind when the light board is down.

[GeeksGoneBad]

Thanks! I'm not really worried at all about the third coin - the glass was changed to two coins at some point and so for 3 coins I'd need new glass too and I'm fine with just the two coins

all those switches work correctly to reset and step up - the lights are currently disconnected anyway but I plan on putting some LEDs up there too - but that's for after I fix the payout

Thanks

[GeeksGoneBad]

So I have 2 switches on that side of the payout counter - one is closed after winning and one is opened after winning  - the picture is after winning...

The horizontal switch is closed and the vertical one is open... I confirmed they are the opposite after resetting (manually)

[GeeksGoneBad]

So I did some more digging on the B switch y'all mentioned and it's a grey wire with brown marks - I tracked it down to one of the wires I had cut - I think off that unused switch or maybe a door switch (read that in the manual) - any ideas what color wire that *should* be connected to?

[DavidLee]

Off the top of my head the grey/brown wire is associated with
a coin count meter mounted underneath the reels.
Will let you know for sure tomorrow.

Regarding the payout step unit.

It appears that the wires for the 10 14 and 18 payouts are missing
or on the other side.

Need a refresher on the exact payout problem.