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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: chuck62 on September 07, 2015, 07:15:28 AM
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I have recently inherited a Bally EM 5 line pay machine. It works pretty well, except that it only plays and pays one line. It will accept any amount of coins into the hopper but only the first one registers. I can pull out the top part of the machine and manually step it up to pay 5 coins, so it seems like something is not telling it to step up after the first coin? I have spent some time with a wire brush to clean up the beau plugs but that hasnt really changed anything. :Scratch-Head: Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance, Chuck.
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A few photos of the machine and its id plate (often on the side of machine near pull handle) would be helpful in identifying it. I agree that if only 1 coin is registering that's probably why it's only paying out on 1 line. Do you have the Bally EM manual that covers your machine? It might be available here on NLG in the download area or maybe here:
http://www.idealposter.com/ (http://www.idealposter.com/)
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I don't see an ID plate near the pull arm. I do have the online manual. Here are some pictures.
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I tried to post all photos at once. Guess I have to do separate posts.
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I don't see an ID plate near the pull arm. I do have the online manual. Here are some pictures.
Maybe someone removed the idplate, if you see some rivet holes in the side of the machine that might be where the id plate was mounted. Sometimes on the assemblies inside there will be a tag that has the model number. And inside the machine there might be a sticker on the wall with that info. I think Bally used model numbers like "873", "1026" etc on their EMs. The exact model number often isn't needed as they used similar construction and design on many of the assemblies. Someone here familiar with the older Bally EMs will probably recognize your machine.
I think you should be able to attach up to 6 photos to a comment, not sure why you weren't able to. There is an attachment filesize limit but doesn't look like that applied. But the way you did it will work ok.
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I think 873 sounds right but I dont see any stickers or any place that a tag was removed either.
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Again
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873 for sure look in top unit for a bad step up coil on lines or coin unit may also just have a spring off too but your pic's load too slow to check all your pic's
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Here is a better picture of the upper unit. Maybe you can help me what I am looking at?
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look at the unit with 2 coils on it that should be where the trouble is? clean it up check larger coil with a meter
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I dont know if this is helpful... probably tells you what you already thought. The game plays fine with the top unit completely out. (one coin) I am really no expert when it comes to electric components. But since the step up unit seems to perform fine when done manually, then it is probably one of the coils that is an issue, is that what you are saying? I am not sure how to test a coil? All I find so far is about electric stove coils, not the kind I am trying to fix. One other note... when I manually activate the coin arm inside the front door, I get the one strong click sound on the first time, then just a dull non click after that, except when the coin hopper is removed, then I get a strong click sound every time? :Scratch-Head:
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that click if I recall right is the handle release coil , if I recall theres a set of points there that sends to power to coin unit in top check switches on handle release coil and make sure they are clean and closing /opening if you pull reel mech got you can see better you will get it working, bally em are great games
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.....I am not sure how to test a coil?.......
I resized your last photo to make it view more quickly and attached it below with some notes on it. Doing that reduces the photo enlargement so we lose some closeup detail but I think it will still be ok for the explanation.
A coil is an electrical part that is one long, small diameter piece of copper wire wrapped around a plastic form. Since the wire is coiled around the form that's where the name "coil" comes from. When electricity runs thru the coil a magnetic field is formed. That magnetic field is used to cause a metal part to move. The metal part can be a plunger rod that is placed in the middle of the coil form, it looks like a round metal rod that is attached at one end to another part they want to move. These coils are often called a solenoid coil. The plunger rod will move one way then the other way when the coil is powered on and off. On other types of coils they move a metal part so that it causes switch contacts to open or close. This is often called a relay coil or a switch coil.
Since a coil is made of just 1 long piece of copper wire it can be tested with a simple meter or continuity checker. The coil will have 2 connections, both are opposite ends of the same wire. With power off to the machine you can put your meter leads on the 2 coil connections, the reading should show continuity, a very low electrical resistance if the meter displays ohms. If the coil wire does not have continuity it is called "open", and the coil will not work since its wire won't let electricity flow thru it. Sometimes the coil's wire gets broken or burned open.
Sometimes the coil itself is ok but the metal part that moves is gummed-up or binding. Cleaning these moving parts is often needed on older equipment, as the oil or light grease degrades over the years it gets thick, dust and dirt gets mixed in with it too.
As buybestslots said, take a close look at the mechanical assembly in your photo that has the 2 green solenoid coils. This may be the "step up" assembly or unit. Make sure the coils are good with a meter, and check that the metal plunger rods connected to the coils move. Study how it works when the coil plunger would be activated by the coil. Often there is a lever arm or wheel or a moving set of contact fingers (thin metal wipers) that gets stepped to a different position. There are springs attached to different parts also. With power off you can usually check the movement of parts by pushing the coil plunger rod yourself. One of the coils could be responsible for moving something like wipers in a circular stepping motion on a circuit board to make contact with metal rivet contacts. The other coil probably releases the step up unit so it goes back to its initial or home position, with the help of springs pulling it back. If the coils are ok then look for bad electrical contacts, broken wires, binding mechanical parts, etc.
Since you have the manual for your Bally EM machine I'd say to read thru it, look for the section that explains the coin in process and how the step up unit works when each coin is inserted. Maybe the manual will point out the coils involved on a diagram or photo. Also, in your photos it looks like there are labels for the coils. You can read them to identify each coils function.
In your photo below I've made some notes pointing out the coils I can see. Some of the coils have a green paper wrapper with the word Bally printed on them.
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For convenience I resized your photos, that will make them load faster for others that may want to offer helpful comments. They can still view the original size above for detail if needed.
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As Bestbuy says, it's probably a handle switch problem. When the handle paddle drops (1st coin in) then it closes a handle switch Normally Open to the closed postion.
This switch now allows your coin in pulses to step up the odds disc in the top unit, and give you odds.
Also, to check your coils with jumpers, read my two posts on using jumpers, that should explain it.
Again, the normally open handle release switch is the place I'd look first.
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:I_agree_1:
As Bestbuy says, it's probably a handle switch problem. When the handle paddle drops (1st coin in) then it closes a handle switch Normally Open to the closed postion.
This switch now allows your coin in pulses to step up the odds disc in the top unit, and give you odds.
Also, to check your coils with jumpers, read my two posts on using jumpers, that should explain it.
Again, the normally open handle release switch is the place I'd look first.
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My guess on this one is that the wiper unit is stuck after sitting for years. Make sure all wiper units advance, and reset without any hesitation. First thing I do when going through an old EM. This also holds true for Pinball machines. Sticky wiper units cause problems.
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Here is a picture of the line unit step up relay unit coils. The two on the bottom have green paper and the other one on top the paper is brown. Does that mean it is burned out?
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The mechanics of the step up unit seem fine. When I step it up manually, nothing seems sticky or stiff and the action is good and the connections seem fine. Im going to post a picture of the line unit step up relay from my phone camera. The bottom 2 coils have green paper and the top one, the paper is brown, this could mean it has burned out? I dont own a meter that I can attach, I guess I will have to buy one. Thanks for the continued support! (picture to follow, if you can also resize again, thanks!)
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Picture
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The coil in your photo with the brown wrapper doesn't look burned out to me. A lot of times a coil will stay energized for a while when the game is being played and it gets warm, that is normal. That heat can turn the paper brownish. A burned coil will show more of a scorched look. The best way to test them is with a meter. You can get low cost ones at Harbor Freight, and I think Lowes or Home Depot has basic meters for just a few dollars.
Below is an example of a burned coil, they can even be more burned than this:
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check switch on handle coil that drops out after 1st coin best bet is there asset of points not making or dirty
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check switch on handle coil that drops out after 1st coin best bet is there asset of points not making or dirty
Where am I looking for that coil?
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on top of handle mech right side of cabinet pull out reel mech you'll see it there
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Is there a way to delete or remove some of the pictures that are repeats, to make this forum easier to navigate?
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on top of handle mech right side of cabinet pull out reel mech you'll see it there
So, it looks like this coil activates a bar to drop which allows the arm lever to be pulled to activate a spin? But it sounds like you are saying there is another function for this coil as well? Is it supposed to relay a signal to the top unit to activate more lines or something? How can I test the funtionality, is there any way to check with the power plugged in?
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check those points that that bar moves
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Im going to post 2 pictures. One with the bar in the up position, where the handle cannot be pulled and one in the down position when the handle can be pulled. It looks to me like all of the places that are supposed to touch each other are?
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Pictures
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Still can only do 1 pic per post
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those are the points you need to clean and set your on right track now chuck the set that closes after 1st coin is the ones to file and set so they are making good
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those are the points you need to clean and set your on right track now chuck the set that closes after 1st coin is the ones to file and set so they are making good
Okay, so best way to file? With sand paper or what? Also, it looks like there is solid contact points but the best way to adjust them maybe tighter together for a sure contact without doing something bad?
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no sand paper but small metal file will work
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Is there a way to delete or remove some of the pictures that are repeats, to make this forum easier to navigate?
you should be able to click on the word "Modify" in the upper right-hand corner of your posts and edit it. Then just uncheck any photo attachments you want to remove, then click on SAVE at the bottom. That will remove the photo from the post. You can't actually delete the post but can edit it this way and can replace the text with a short message like the word "deleted" or similar. If the photos you want to remove are the ones I posted just let me know.
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Is there a way to delete or remove some of the pictures that are repeats, to make this forum easier to navigate?
you should be able to click on the word "Modify" in the upper right-hand corner of your posts and edit it. Then just uncheck any photo attachments you want to remove, then click on SAVE at the bottom. That will remove the photo from the post. You can't actually delete the post but can edit it this way and can replace the text with a short message like the word "deleted" or similar. If the photos you want to remove are the ones I posted just let me know.
No, the ones you did are fine... I guess its not a big deal, now that we are on another page, its easy to skip over those old posts. Thanks!
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No, the ones you did are fine... I guess its not a big deal, now that we are on another page, its easy to skip over those old posts. Thanks!
ok, just wanted to double-check. It looks like your reply #9 on the first page had the same photo attached twice, so you could delete one of them if you wanted to see how the editing process works and eliminate the duplicate photo.
here's your message I'm referring to:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=8030.msg42814#msg42814 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=8030.msg42814#msg42814)
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Some quick new info... I spoke with the woman who I got the machine from... they got it from a VFW hall and had it in their house until her husband died and she gave it to us. Her recollection is that the machine always played and paid 5 coins as far as she recalls. I am not sure how much it actually got used in the recent years but maybe it was something that happened when I transported it? Are there any suggestions as to more help if it cold be something that got jarred instead of simply a wear and tear issue? As far as I have seen so far, I cant find any wires that appear loose or any soldering that appears broken. But if I am looking in these directions, where should the focus be?
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Some of the old timers here will tell Not to file or sand the points.
The points have silver plating on them and sanding or filling will remove the coating and expose the brass
underneath. The brass is softer and will pit quicker causing more problems.
The old timer method is denatured alcohol on a dollar bill pull though the points.
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So I did some cleaning of the connections where the bar drops after the first coin is put in. I dont feel like the problem is here. On the second coin, it sounds like the issue is coming from the upper unit, specifically the line unit step up relay coil area. And when I removed the upper unit to check on it and pressed the plate that is supposed to lower to make more connections, that plate was very hot. :Scratch-Head:
Maybe I am wrong, I dont really understand the order of how things are supposed to go. See if i have it understood correctly... The first coin goes in and the bar drops to release the arm and to allow a signal from the second coin to go to the step up unit which in turn will do the same to open a circuit to another coil for the third coin and so on???
If this is correct, then it seems like the problem is after the first coin and before the second coin? Would it be normal for that plate to get so hot? It seems like maybe it is and thats why the brown look on the coil paper?
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now clean and check points on those top units
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Chuck,
If you remove the 4 screws that hold your light panel onto the front of the top unit assembly, then you can carefully lay it down and watch what is happening up there. Also, you can reach in with a pencil to physically close your odds step up relay to see how it affects the step up coil.
Try it you will be delighted that you can actually watch it all working...
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Here's a simplified view of what happens.
1st coin in releases handle coil and when the handle paddle drops it changes one of the HR switches to close.
This closed switch now takes the 2nd coin in and pulses the odds step up relay, which makes the odds step up solenoid fire and steps the odds unit one step.
The 3rd coin in also pulses the odds step up relay which makes the odds step up solenoid fire once again, and the odds unit steps one more step.
The 4th coin in (does the same thing)
The 5th coin in does the same thing HOWEVER a N.O. switch on the odds unit disc OPENS, and that switch kills power to the coin lockout coil (door) which prevents you from putting any more coins in.
Now, when handle is pulled, that handle release switch (N.O.) goes back to open, and its normal position is to direct the voltage to the handle release coil. It is a two way switch.
So, basically once the handle release coil fires and the handle is released, there is no need to release the handle again, so extra coins in go to give you your odds step up instead.
You should find a schematic of it on your free downloaded bally EM manual, which I am sure you have downloaded. I think it's around page 18 or so.
Hope that helps.
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I have just dropped the top payout panel and broken the glass!! Is there any resource where I can buy a new one??? :duh:
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Just to be clear, you are needing the upper glass, the one circled in yellow in your photo below?
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I have just dropped the top payout panel and broken the glass!! Is there any resource where I can buy a new one??? :duh:
There were a few listed on EBay..