New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => WMS Reel Games => Topic started by: cmurph on October 18, 2014, 04:50:56 PM
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We have a Willliams X Factor Machine that won't turn on and I'm hoping someone can help me figure out how to fix it myself. When we turn on the machine there are 2 red lights that come on the top cpu board, the 5 Volt and the 18Volt. Does anyone have any ideas on what could fix this?
Thanks for any help!
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If this is a WMS (Williams) model 400/4XX machine I think this means your main power supply is bad. When you open the machine door this power supply is the gray box mounted to the side of the left hand wall of the machine, inside the lower area and above the coin hopper. Your machine's power cord runs to a connector at the back of this power supply to bring in your household 115vac. There is a master power switch on the front of this power supply. One of the connectors on the side of the power supply has the voltages that are used by the circuit cards in the card cage and you can measure these voltages with an ordinary volt meter. But with the cpu card lites (LEDs) dark it would mean these voltages are bad, so probably no need to actually measure them. I suppose it is possible there is something else in the machine that could cause these voltage to go bad but this is where you start.
You can search this website or better yet, the old NLG archives for the repair that owners do when this happens, it comes up fairly often. The choices are to replace the lower power supply with another one or send it out for repair or use a computer power supply to replace the old power supply. The computer power supply method is often the least expensive but requires someone able to do the electrical wiring needed.
To see the repair write-ups I referred to, they are posted in the "WMS Reel" section here:
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?board=64.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?board=64.0)
There is a lot of good info about this problem and the suggested ways to fix it, all written in that WMS section on the old archive site. This repair is always worthwhile doing since it is straight-forward and should bring the machine back to life.
In the picture of the cpu board below all 5 LEDs on the right side of the picture should be on. Each one gives the status of a different voltage, such as +5vdc, +12vdc, etc. Let us know what you find out and any other questions.
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Thank you so much for your quick response! I don't know anything about wiring though, so my best bet would probably be to just replace the power supply. Do you know of anyone who sells these? I will search the forums as well, but I'm new here (just found it doing an internet search) so any quick tips are greatly appreciated. Thanks again!
Cher
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If I remember correctly....
"X-Factor" was also a 550....
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Just to clarify what machine you have can you look on the manufacturer id plate and tell us the model number? The id plate is usually fastened somewhere on the outside, often it is on a side corner below the pull handle on the right side. I added pictures of two different models of X-Factor below, does your machine look like one of them? All of the info I've been writing is for the WMS model 400/401/4XX machines. Does your machine have 3 spinning wheel reels, or is it a video display?
I'll check around and see, it seems like there were a few places that still had them for sale not long ago, probably rebuilt/repaired units. This was a popular topic a few years ago and some of the regulars here would post a message about places they knew that could either fix your old power supply or would sell you another one. So let's see what others have to say also, it will give you choices of which way to go.
If you remove your old power supply there is probably a WMS part number written on it. Depending on the year your machine was made the WMS part number for the power supply is A-002938-01 or A-002912-01. I think this part number is for the entire power supply including the metal enclosure (box). You can do some internet searches for these part numbers. But only one of them is the right one for your machine so at some point you will need to identify your particular power supply. But anyone having one of these part numbers would possibly have or know something about where to locate the other.
There is a circuit board inside the power supply that some people remove and replace, it has its own part number. The reason there are two different styles of the power supply is due to the wiring cable that connects the huge power transformer on the inside bottom of the machine to the power supply. This xformer has a cable that connects to the power supply and on older machines this cable had a 12 position connector, on newer machines they used a 16 position connector.
I can't vouch for this item but this ebay auction shows what the power supply looks like, inside and outside:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WMS-Power-Supply-/251681094660?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a995cbc04 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/WMS-Power-Supply-/251681094660?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a995cbc04)
KIRK- do you know of anyone having replacement power supplies for these WMS 400 (or 550) machines or that will repair one? Seems like NeonKiss mentioned something about this a while back.
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The lower supplies are a bitch to find!
Best to repair them when you have to. The upper 12 volt supply is still available on Ebay....
The typical repair is recapping...
Kirk
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I have a few Brand New top and lower Power supplies. If anyone needs them; send me a p.m. ... Thanks, Bill
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Good to know Bill, hopefully the person with the non-working X-Factor machine will check back in and see your message. Do you also have other parts for these WMS machines such as the CPU & I/O boards, reel assemblies, dotmation screens, etc?
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I read the replies and I took some pics of our machine this morning, but my computer is acting up and won't allow me to load them on here. I could email them to Bill if that would help? There is a sticker with a barcode on the side of the power supply that says W1005008. The 5 & the 8 aren't real easy to see, but I think that's what they are. Does that sound right? It is the 40x model and looks like the other picture I seen on here of the XFactor (it has 3 wheels). Is the power supply easy for a novice to change? I don't want to order something that I can't fix :). Thanks so much!
Cher
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I think it is a medium easy job, you just have to unplug all the cable connectors that plug into the side, plus the 115vac power cord at the rear corner. If your coin hopper is still in the machine it is probably easier to see what you are doing if you remove the hopper. Just pull straight out on the hopper. Careful, it is heavy and sometimes there is a little grease on the bottom side. Luckily, all of the connectors on the side of the power supply are shaped so they will only fit back into the correct place. The bottom row of connectors are all for lighting so you can plug any of those bottom cables into any of the bottom row connectors, they are all the same size and they are all equivalent. A lot of people take a Sharpie marker and write a number onto each white plastic connector and the same number on the mating connector so they can be sure about where it goes back in later. You can number them 1,2,3 etc from left to right, or whatever makes sense to you. And you can take a closeup picture of the power supply before you unplug anything, so you can see how it was.
After getting all of the connectors unplugged there are just a couple of nuts along the front side to remove that hold the power supply to the side wall of the machine. It's been a while, there may be another screw along the top, but I don't remember any screws or nuts at the back, I think it has a bracket that holds it in place. Maybe Bill or someone that remembers better than I do can explain further. If you have a small open end wrench or a nutdriver it is pretty easy. (a nutdriver is similar to a screwdriver but has a socket head on the end that fits onto the nut). I don't want to go into dangerous territory here but if you have a guy to help that may make it easier since he is probably familiar with hand tools. Don't take offense to this, I'm just going by how my wife would handle this, you may be much more handy than she is with this kind of thing.
Not sure about that W number tag, it may be a serial number, mine has a similar tag and number but it isn't the same number as yours. A picture sent to Bill would be a good idea so he and you can be sure which model power supply you need. After you get it removed from the machine you can get a good closeup picture of the connector side so he can make sure what you have. And you may find other numbers on it then too.
To add a picture here, when you are writing your comment look just below and you will see where it is written in green "Attachments and other options". Click on that and it will open a place where you can click on "Attach". Below where it says "Attach" just click on "Choose File" and it should popup a box for you to choose the picture file on your computer. Select the picture file by clicking on it and then click on "Open" in the popup box. That should attach the picture to your comment post. You computer might do things slightly different depending on which version of Windows or Mac OS you have. Everyone here loves pictures of the old machines, so feel free to attach several pictures for us to see. There is a limit to the number or size of pictures per comment posting, but you can always leave additional comments so you can attach more pictures.
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I have new upper and lower power supplies, reels, dot boards..... I'm very short supplied on Dotmation displays and boards. I also have most all dotmation kits so I can get chips for most games ( no kits that I'm looking to sell at this time) ..... Bill
Good to know Bill, hopefully the person with the non-working X-Factor machine will check back in and see your message. Do you also have other parts for these WMS machines such as the CPU & I/O boards, reel assemblies, dotmation screens, etc?
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I will keep this reply short because I'm writing it from my phone so I could attach the pics. My computer has something wrong with it and won't let me download anything at all. No offense taken about needing a guy to help :). I'm better with directions and technical stuff, but husband is the one I give the screwdriver to LOL. He is gone on the road right now so I will have to see if I can at least get the power supply out to give Bill the number off of it unless he can tell from the pics. I attached the one that shows only the 2 red lights on as well. Thanks!
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Good job on getting the pictures attached to your post. Below I have attached your 2nd picture with a note to make things clear (hopefully). If you are not able to remove the power supply then if you can take a nice closeup photo of the power supply that shows the connectors on the side clearly then Bill can probably match it to one he has. It might be more clear if you can unplug the cables so the power supply connectors can be more easily seen, but if the picture is shot from a slight overhead angle going downward it should show the number of positions in each connector. You may need to take a few to find the best one or two to attach here. The bottom row of connectors is not important, it is the top connector row that needs to be seen.
I've also attached 2 pictures showing which of the power supply connectors is the one that is different between the two different styles. That important connector is on the top row, all the way to the back end near the white 115vac outlets back there. This is the connector that is either a 12 or a 16 position. Don't count the wires in the connector, have to count the openings where wires could go, even if some of the openings are empty.
AND- since you are the technical type (which I think is great) here is the Service & Operating Manual for your machine (it is actually for all of the Williams 400/4XX models). You may already have this but if not it contains some very useful info such as parts diagrams, part lists and part numbers, settings you can change to make the game more enjoyable such as volume levels, payout in coins or credits, speed that the reels spin, etc. This manual is in pdf format, you will need to be on a computer that lets you download stuff.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=943 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=943)
PS> I've been assuming you live in the USA. Some countries outside the USA that use 220vac electrical service would use either a different Williams power supply or one that has a voltage selection switch on it.
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I have new upper and lower power supplies, reels, dot boards..... I'm very short supplied on Dotmation displays and boards. I also have most all dotmation kits so I can get chips for most games ( no kits that I'm looking to sell at this time) ..... Bill Good to know Bill, hopefully the person with the non-working X-Factor machine will check back in and see your message. Do you also have other parts for these WMS machines such as the CPU & I/O boards, reel assemblies, dotmation screens, etc?
That is excellent to know! I've been worried about parts being available if I ever have a failure. There was another thread here on NLG recently about a person needing sound chips for a WMS High Speed game, I'll point him to you.
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I guess you will be sending the machine to me?
J.K
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You guys are referring to the outer shell of the power supply. You don't need to replace the whole thing ; just the power supply itself which is located inside of the metal box . I attached a pic of the power supply. That is what you need and is what I have ..... Bill
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You guys are referring to the outer shell of the power supply. You don't need to replace the whole thing ; just the power supply itself which is located inside of the metal box . I attached a pic of the power supply. That is what you need and is what I have ..... Bill
Ok, that's good to know. For some reason I thought you had the entire power supply assembly in the metal box, I've seen those available for sale in the past. The power supply board you have is the main part but there is another circuit board in there that contains some additional parts, you are saying that the power supply board (which you have replacement for) is what fails the majority of the time so it is all that needs to be replaced. That sounds reasonable and would be the way I'd go on a repair.
After removing the power supply metal box from her machine she will need to open it and unplug the 2 cables inside (shown below) and remove 4 mounting screws to remove the old power supply circuit board, then install yours and reconnect the cables. Not terribly difficult but it does add to the repair steps, she will need to decide if this is something she wants to tackle. We can walk her thru this if she wants to give it a try. A complete power supply assembly in the metal box would be more plug & play but would also increase the cost of shipping due to weight.
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I think there is too much emphasis on the difficulty in replacing the Lower power supply. ... You would simply remove the 7 molex harnesses ( btw; It doesn't matter where they are re-plugged in at as long as a 6 pin molex is connected to a 6 pin molex and a 10 pin molex goes to a 10 pin molex; etc. ) remove the 2 small nuts holding tho power supply box to the sidewall. Slideout the power supply box. remove 2 screws fron side of PS box..... Take off metal cover top ; thus exposing inner area of box... Remove 4 phillips screws hilding actual power supply.... Remove 2 molex connector harnesses connceted to actual power supply.... Remove the PS. Install brand new ps... and screw in 4 phillips screws, plug in the 2 molex harnesses, replace metal top , screw in 2 screws holding top, slide metal box back in the machine...... That's the entire breakdown step by step. usually done in 5 minutes, but give yourself 10 minutes for the 1st time. Bill
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Thanks for all the details and help everyone. I plan to try and remove this according to all the steps, but I may not get to it until this weekend. I pm'd Bill & will be in touch, thanks!!s
Cher
P.S. I tried clicking the link to see the manual, but it says I can't view it because I'm not a "gold" member and my login wouldn't work. I think I probably already have it though because I had to replace the main chip years ago and the guy I bought it from had sent it to me. I'd love to have it again via email though if possible so I could download it. I only have the one printed copy and it is getting ragged. My email is cmurph@tds.net if you are able too forward it.
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cmurph - check your email for manual, let me know if it doesn't come thru. :dancing_2:
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I'm back looking for more help. Bill has been awesome trying to help me figure out what is wrong, but we've tried 2 power supplies and neither of them have fixed the problem. He suggested I might come back here and see if anyone else has any ideas as to what else it might be. The 2 red lights are still coming on the top CPU board (the two end ones and the three in the middle are unlit). It has a 12 molex connector that goes to the transformer. Bill said we might be able to check the transformer next, but it's a lot of shipping back & forth so I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced the same problem that might have some ideas on what could be wrong before we try that next step. Thanks! Cher
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Don't be hesitant to ask for help, that's one of the main reasons this website exists.
Just to make sure we didn't miss something on your problem, your machine was working fine and then one day you turned it on and it had this failure, right?. The red lights that show power supply status are shown below, they are on the I/O board. On your machine the 3 center lights are off but the lights on each end are lit. You can see by the labels on the board it is the +12, -12 and +5 voltages that are bad.
When you replaced the power supply board inside the lower power supply unit you probably saw that there is another board inside there. There are a couple of fuses on that other board, they rarely go bad but you can check them. Also, on the outside of the gray lower power supply unit there is a small recessed slide switch, kind of an orange or brown color, make sure it is in the 115 volt position. Don't change it while power is on.
The large transformer mounted in the bottom of the slot machine connects to the lower power supply unit and works with it to create some of the voltages. Check for broken wires on the transformer lugs and at the other end of the transformer cable where the connector plugs into the gray lower power supply. If you see something you aren't sure about just take a picture of it and we'll take a look.
After the power supply makes the voltages they are sent to the backplane card. This is the card in the back of the card cage that the CPU board and the I/O board plug into. So the voltages go from the power supply over a cable to the backplane board and from there over traces imprinted on the backplane board to the I/O board (and CPU board at same time).
This problem is usually solved by replacing the lower power supply, sorry this is being more difficult for you than it typically is. Did you double-check that you got all of the connector cables reconnected inside the power supply after replacing the power supply board that Bill sent to you? While removing the old board and installing the new one you may have unplugged other cables, be sure they got reconnected. And that all of the cables were reconnected to the side connectors. Did anything else in the machine get unplugged or changed or messed with that we should know about? Did anyone else besides you work on it, maybe someone did something trying to get it going that would affect the thinking about this problem.
I guess if I were there working on it my next step would probably be to use a volt meter (even on inexpensive one will work) and measure the voltages coming out of the lower power supply connector that provides the 3 missing voltages to the I/O board. This will prove that the power supply is or is not working correctly. The connector to measure these voltages is shown in the picture below with all the wires attached and the expected voltages written nearby. The voltages on this connector are low and safe to measure but electricity will need to be on so you will need to be comfortable doing this. Checking the voltages at the power supply connector will show if the power supply is working correctly and the problem is downstream, such as the wiring or I/O board or something else. To measure the voltage you can just slide the red lead of the volt meter into the connector until it touches the metal contact inside there. The black lead of the volt meter can be connected to any bare metal surface, it is a ground connection for measuring. If you aren't able to measure these voltages then we'll need to come up with another plan. EDIT- if you try to measure these voltages with the big gray box (lower power supply) outside of the machine it won't work since the giant power transformer must be connected to the lower power supply.
Others here may be able to suggest other ideas to try. And if you are nearby to one of the folks here there may be a way for someone to help in person or with lower shipping costs. What city are you located in?
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Here is a link to an Ebay auction.
This company builds new computer power supplies (much more dependable then the WMS ones) that you can plug right in and be up and running for the upper and lower power supply.
Here's the link-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WMS-360-400-550-SUPPLEMENTAL-POWER-SUPPLY-200-WATT-/350802053047?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51ad6e87b7 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/WMS-360-400-550-SUPPLEMENTAL-POWER-SUPPLY-200-WATT-/350802053047?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51ad6e87b7)
Nothing wrong with the way the other fellas are recommending but this way is using more common parts and is pretty affordable.
There's also a post on new life on how to wire a power supply in yourself using a new $15 computer one.
Took me just over an hour to do one each of my machines, but if you prefer more plug and play the guys on ebay make it simple.
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Thanks so much for all of the replies. I've been getting home late and had to go to unexpectedly go into work this morning, so I haven't had a chance to try all the things you have suggested, but I plan to go through everyone's suggestions tomorrow.
Thanks so much!
Cher
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I just tried using the volt checker, but I'm not sure if I'm using the right kind. This one shows it is for batteries and alternators, but someone told me I should be able to use it to check the connections as well. I hooked the black connection to a bare metal spot and poked the red part into a few different spots of the connector shown. It didn't do anything for a couple and then one of them lit up the voltometer and it started smoking and it smelled so I instantly pulled it out. I'm not sure what that means...either I'm using the wrong type of tool to check or it has a ton of power? Nothing looks frayed and all the wires look good and are connected tight.
I'm located in Medford, WI (north central area) if anyone happens to live in the area.
Thanks!!
Cher
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I just tried using the volt checker, but I'm not sure if I'm using the right kind. This one shows it is for batteries and alternators, but someone told me I should be able to use it to check the connections as well. I hooked the black connection to a bare metal spot and poked the red part into a few different spots of the connector shown. It didn't do anything for a couple and then one of them lit up the voltometer and it started smoking and it smelled so I instantly pulled it out. I'm not sure what that means...either I'm using the wrong type of tool to check or it has a ton of power? Nothing looks frayed and all the wires look good and are connected tight.
I'm located in Medford, WI (north central area) if anyone happens to live in the area.
Thanks!!
Cher
When you say "it" started smoking and smelled are you talking about the voltage checker smoked or the slot machine smoked? If you mean the voltage checker started smoking my guess is you connected it to a higher voltage than it is capable of handling. I'd think it would have a fuse or protection circuit in case someone plugged it into something electrical that it couldn't handle but it may not.
The device you are using is a basic voltage checker for automobiles, it is made to test 12vdc systems. They are used to check car batteries and the alternator charging system to see if the voltage is correct. They are designed to measure voltage in a limited range up to about 15vdc and can not be used to measure ac voltage or any voltage higher than about 15vdc, so they are not as handy as a real volt meter. If you connected it to one of the connectors that has 115AC voltage then that is why things started smoking. You will need to be careful making voltage checks with this device, it is not for checking anything except 15vdc and lower. So not a good idea to just be poking it into any connector, please be careful.
You could connect the voltage checker black and red lead to a car battery black & red posts to see if it still works ok. I would do that before using is again on the slot machine, just to get a confidence check that the volt checker doesn't have a problem.
Do not connect this device to the bottom row of connectors on your machine lower power supply, they have 115vac on them. Do not connect it to the last connector at the back of the top row (that is the giant power transformer connector), it also has 115vac on it.
The only place you can measure on the lower power supply with this device is the dc voltage connector, which is the one shown below with all the wires connected to it in the picture. You could check the +12vdc wire and maybe the +5vdc wire. Your device isn't made to check the -12vdc wire and may not be helpful to measure the 18vdc wire. And this device won't give you the voltage reading, it just has lites, so is limited in its measuring ability. I suppose it is better than nothing and might give a little help to determining if the lower power supply is working. But if you know someone that has a real volt meter and is experienced in using it ask them to come over and measure the dc connector voltages. This would tell us more about what is working and what is not working.
Something to check would be to turn power off and unplug the machine power cord. Remove the coin hopper to get it out of the way. While it is out carefully look at its connector and all over to see anything that doesn't look right. Next look inside the machine with a light, check for mashed wires or coins (or game tokens) that may have bounced around and lodged someplace shorting things out. On the back of the lower area is the backplane with lots of cables and wires, make sure nothing is wrong there and there are no coins stuck back there. A good visual inspection often turns up clues to the problem. Also look on the inside of the right hand wall in the lower cabinet where the pull handle mechanism is. Check for pinched wires or coins lodged across wire terminals. Sometimes coins can bounce around, or can go someplace they shouldn't be if the machine was ever moved onto its side or tilted way over for any reason.
I suggested if I were there I would measure the voltages coming out of the lower power supply to help figure out where the problem is. This is because you don't have other parts available so we can't just easily try swapping parts to see what is wrong. In your situation the choices are limited on what to try, many home owner of slot machines face the same problem when their machine has a problem. The power status lights being out on the I/O board is nearly always caused by a bad lower power supply. So in this case there is either something that was missed when the power supply board was replaced, or another unidentified thing causing the problem. And since none of us are there with you it is more difficult to figure it out long distance. I still lean toward the lower power supply unit (the big gray box) not working but nothing is ever absolute in this kind of thing.
If you want to learn how to fix your machine you can, this website has many people like me that started out knowing next to nothing about their machines, its circuit boards, etc. Anyone can learn to use a voltmeter but you do need to be careful with it. Do not touch your fingers to the bare meter probes when they are connected to something being measured. Try to know ahead of time approx what the voltage you are measuring will be, such as high voltage AC or DC so you can select the proper setting on the volt meter. Use a higher range at first then switch the meter range down as needed to get a more accurate reading. If the meter flashes or over-ranges or the needle pegs (older meters) then you have it set to the wrong setting. Never check resistance/ohms (ohmmeter feature) when power is turned on in the circuit you are measuring.
If I remember right the power supply board inside the lower power supply assembly has been replaced and that didn't fix things. Did you go back inside and double-check that all the connectors and cables you had to disconnect got reconnected correctly, none of them were left off or connected wrong like one contact over from where it should be? Sometimes when things are taken apart we make an error when putting them back together.
I'm over in southeast Missouri, wish we lived closer so I could be more helpful. I would be happy to check any part you want to send me. Or maybe there is someone on this NLG site that is pretty close to your location and can do more.
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You can get a CHEAP Volt / Ohm meter at most hardware stores/ Walmart even free with coupon at Harbor Freight tools... Do yourself a favor and use a Voltmeter so you can see what the voltages are , Don't use a little LED tester...
These CHEAP Meters can be found for $3 to $15 , even better you can get a nice one for $30 to $75 it is essential you have a good meter to troubleshoot with.
Your looking for a cheap "MultiMeter" so you can read voltages (VOLTS) and Resistances (OHMS) maybe even (AMPS or MILLIAMPS).
Hope you figure it out
Don
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I'm located in Medford, WI (north central area) if anyone happens to live in the area.
Thanks!!
Cher
Another idea, there used to be several guys here on NLG website that were in the Chicago area which isn't too far from you. Some of them were Williams hobbyists but I don't know how active they are anymore. Maybe they will check in to this forum and be able to help. Although recently sold, Williams Gaming has been headquartered in Chicago area for a long time, makers of pinball and slot machines for decades. So there were a lot of former employees and family members in the hobby in that area. You could check the NLG Members List (menu choice on main menu near top of screen) and see if anyone is nearby, ask if they do repair help on your type machine. Just a thought...
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Thanks all. I am going to borrow a tester and try checking it that way. I usually only have time to mess with it on the weekends so it might take me awhile to get it figured out :).