Bally 809 sticks on 1st coin on and off

[Sansome]

Initially when I got the machine, I cleaned and adjusted some misaligned switches ( which seemed misaligned on purpose?)
I cleaned and lubed all the steppers- after this, the machine worked.
One problem still exists, you can hear it drop out, and always gets stuck
Lighting up the first coin- the handle release switches don’t release the handle, and coins
Just go straight through to the pay tray. I took the bolts out for the handle release switches
So I could properly clean and adjust them again, after this- the machine was good for another 2-3
Hundred pulls. I thought these switches might be responsible for the problem and they might still be?
Before I go and look for a broken switch blade in the handle release switches- I thought I would ask
If I’m overlooking anything that might be the problem- sometimes I can keep putting coins in and it will suddenly come back to life and go to the second coin- and start working again- any suggestions would be appreciated.

[DavidLee]

The problem could be the actual handle release mechanism.
The latching mechanism wants to pull up to release the handle.
But it struggles due to lack of lubrication on the pivot points.

Try adding a little oil and vaseline to where the pivot points meet.

Speaking about the pivot points on the little release plate that is actuated by the electrical coil.
And the end that hold the release lever.

[Sansome]

I saw that in another thread that had the same problem, so I put some lubrication
On the area you just described.
The switch blades were really bent up pretty bad on this machine, that’s why I was
Thinking it might be a broken switch blade that’s hiding in the switch stack?

[DavidLee]

 Cracked or broken blades don’t occur that often, but if the blades were abused, it’s a possibility.
Although the machine runs well with the occasional handle release problem.
I would believe it is more of a mechanical issue or contacts out of adjustment.

Try using the coin trip wire to release the handle, but slowly depress it and release.
The down stroke of the switch unlatches the coin relay switches, thus setting up to release the handle.
When the coin switch wire returns to its normal position the handle is released.
That being said, determine which wire / contact is used to be sure it’s operating correctly.
Believe it is the blue yellow wire, but maybe mistaken don’t remember exactly.

The is also a possibility of carbon and or a fault in the coin in switch itself.
Slight taps with a screwdriver handle may help.
Next time it stops working try the screwdriver.

[Sansome]

Ok- thanks for the info, I’m looking for some of my Bally pinball
Switches, they don’t nearly get the abuse that these switches in question get
I think keeping this machine running back in the day, it seems like they were adjusted
So many times, every switch was slightly wonky, I was able to straighten them back to a respectable
Form- so it sounds like what I expected- these are the switches that are responsible.

[Sansome]

It would help me out, if someone can confirm what switch is responsible for the arm release, I can maybe just replace those switch blades.

[DavidLee]

Post a picture of the machine and the ID tag outside below the handle.

Wolftalk, will most likely have a schematic for the machine.

This schematic is typical for most machines.

[wolftalk]

not sure if you mean the problem is registering the first coin or just the 2nd+ coins.

the circuit is pretty standard for the 809's, but if you have the specific model number on the serial number plate below the handle (and it's right), that'd help.

below is the common circuit.  Stuff to note:

- after a spin, the coin relay switches are as shown on the schematic

- first coin played, the coin relay should trip when the coin switch goes down and the handle release relay should trip when the coin switch goes up

- if the coin relay has tripped (coin accepted light turned on), but the handle release relay did not trip and more coins are getting returned to the tray, the problem is likely in the yellow highlight (otherwise you need multiple problems).

- if jiggling the locked handle helps, check the dashpot switch above the air cylinder on the right side of the reel mech

- there's switches in the circuit on the reel mech and hopper, so plug connections can be the problem.  If jiggling the hopper helps, clean the hopper plug pins and visually verify no pins are pushed back in the socket.

suggest you focus on getting a reliable handle release relay trip and that may fix the coin lockout issue. 

got a voltmeter and long enough jumper wires that you can clip one end of a jumper on one of the dashpot switch blades and hang the other end out the front of the game?  If yes, do that ... you want one voltmeter probe on a dashpot switch blade and the other probe on orange wire 70 on any handy 50V coil (like the coin deflector on the door).  You should get 50VAC after a spin when the game is sitting there doing nothing.

note if the game is paying reliably, then most of the yellow highlight circuit works and you're left suspecting the payout relay switch, the dashpot switch and the plug connections as the common circuit for handle release and coin lockout.  If the first coin always is accepted and the coin relay always trips, you're now more likely to have a problem with the open-at-4th/top switch on the odds unit AND something in the purple highlight ... unless your coin relay switches are wonky.

another test for coin lockout is don't play maximum coins.  Then the blue highlight circuit path should always be closed and coins should not get rejected back to the tray.

[Sansome]

Thanks for all the tips, I took the dremel and a small worn down buffing wheel, cleaned all
The jones plugs- it’s still early days- in 400 plus pulls, no problems yet.
This might be the ticket.

[DavidLee]

Good deal, did you notice if any of the 6 volt bulbs were brighter?

[Sansome]

The pay lights up top were definitely a little brighter, but the most noticeable one was the coin excepted
Light, it no longer flickers, it wasn’t consistent before- I need to replace some lights, eBay? I’m sure there must be some other places? If this problem with the arm unlock stays away, I need a new door lock and replace the coin switch coil- I probably have the information already, in the Bally em slot book I have, or if any of you just know that coil without thinking about it- let me know.

Fingers crossed, this problem has been resolved.

On a side note, I hit 5 bars twice yesterday- luckily I was playing tight, I started out with my pinball take from yesterday ( 2 machines) $7.50
Ran that up to $25
Then hit the 5 bar for $25
Usually I put my pinball quarters into a can, the hopper is my new can-
Think I’m at $60 something $$ in there now

Thanks again for all the great help

[wolftalk]

the coin lockout coil behind the coin mech per the bally 400 manual is E-101-58A.

the 2200 manual supercedes and uses the newer coil numbers, so M-37-2700.  Pinball resource (M37-2700) is usually the lowest price.  If you coil works but you get buzzing, remove dimples from the armature plate (whack it with a hammer) and file the coil top to remove any burrs and see if that fixes it.

led's is an option for lamps.  The warm white retro lamps from comet pinball will be a little brighter, but not obnoxiously.  You don't need the non-ghosting ones for the slots.

the door lock is an ace lock (round key).  You still have the cam piece that connects the lock cylinder to the bar in the door?  If not, I probably have some and likely a lock/key.

[Sansome]

Ah yea- PBR has so many parts, the coil works fine, I’ll try what you said.
Yes please on the lock and the extra piece you mentioned- I think I broke
4 drill bits- getting that lock open- it’s destroyed!

[wolftalk]

huh ... looks like the guy I got some parts from ran machines with medeco locks instead ... I guess they wanted higher security.

I do have the cams and a medeco lock if you don't care about having a round lock.  Email me at slotpics@cdyn.com ... a pic of what pieces you have would also help (i.e. the cam).

the lock cylinder is 1-1/8" if you want to check amazon/ebay/whatever.   The cam most commonly has a rectangular hole that fits on flats on the threaded rod poking out the lock back, but I also have a couple cams with square holes that are used on locks where the cam is held on by a screw (like on pinball machines).

the key needs to turn 180 degrees, but that's usually limited by a removeable plate and you can swap on a different plate or modify what ya get to turn further.

I guess the simple thing if you want round lock is just get a lock advertised for bally slots off ebay.  If ya need the cam, I can mail you one or you can just cough up the extra to get one from the ebay seller.  That route just costs quite a bit more tho ...

e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/111818684758 plus the cam may be all ya need.

there's also keyless options if you just want to operate the door latching mechanism.

[Sansome]

Thx for the link, I think I’ll stick with the round lock for now, but maybe I’ll take you up on the cam, I’ll email you what I have.

[DavidLee]

In regards to post #10.

Slot machines make for a good way to store loose change, nickels and quarters anyway.

Post some pictures of the machine when you have a chance.
Maybe add a short summary of the problem and the cause.

[Sansome]

Over a thousand pulls and no problems, polishing the jones plugs
With a dremel and a worn out buffing wheel appears to have fixed the problem
Thanks all for giving me the tips.

The machine is missing the plaque, it’s an 809 zzc lightning machine- and seems to be functioning
Well.

Think we can say this is a resolved issue.