New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games => Topic started by: Busser0554 on January 02, 2024, 05:21:40 PM
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Hi all. First time machine owner here. I want to thank everyone for the knowledge I have received from this page. I am a first time machine owner as I said. I picked up this machine from an estate sale from a family friend who had passed. What I have is the Red, White and Blue machine. The inside of the door identifies as an S+ machine (the cpu and motherboard are in the rear of the cabinet) I powered up the machine with it in the 61 loop (the machine is from 94 and it appears the battery has been changed recently as it still has 3.6v) I got the ram clear chip and followed the instructions provided and was able to further to the 61-1 and reset the machine. The lower candle light is flashing so I checked the door optics with the inputs test (13_0) and a cell phone and optics are working. (sounded like the machine may need to complete a spin in the game cycle to stop the light?) now my issue is the machine wont accept coins for credits.. I noticed the led on the comparitor never lights up with the door open or closed(i checked with a mirror). I checked the rake on the comparitor the coil never energizes to let the coins to the hopper. I shimmed out the rake to let the coins drop to the hopper and the coin in optics do not see a quarter drop to the hopper. (however testing the input with 11_1/12_1 with a piece of paper the input flags, along with if I block/unplug the optics I get alarm 21 in the winners paid.. Any help would be appreciated as to why it does not recognize credits and tips for troubleshooting. Thanks- Nate
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Hi,
Quote "now my issue is the machine wont accept coins for credits" - We need a bit of clarification on this point.
So if you put in a coin and hit spin reel or pull the handle does it spin ?
If this is a 3 coin game typically you can put in 1-3 coins then spin, a 4th coin won't go to credit.
After a ram clear all pays typically go to the coin tray but you can change this in the settings and have pays go to credits.
Ie a 10 coin pay will show up as 10 credits.
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Not it does not spin with the handle or the pushbutton after adding coins. It does not register that coins have been added to the machine. I've tried different quarters, nickles ect...it does not add credits with the little white button under the comparitor either
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Is there a sample coin in the comparitor?
When you drop a coin in its compared to the metal properties of the sample coin.?
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Yes. I've tried different quarters nickles and dimes in the comparitor. It's a 25cent machine it says on the glass.
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The S+ does not really know denomination. It uses coins and credits. The various mechanical checks below control coin handling but once a coin is accepted - its simply a coin - and has no value to the machine.
Change the glass, change the sticker, etc.... its just a sticker.... the machine (electronics) doesn't care - I have bought lots of mis-matches in the past.
The coin head on the machine - metal thing on the outside - is a guide to prevent someone dropping in a dollar token if everything else is setup for quarters. Of course with a dollar head on the machine you can still drop in penny, dimes and quarters.
The coin comparator CC-16 is designed for Penny, Nickle, Dime or Quarter and similar sized tokens. You need to have a sample quarter installed in the comparator for it to compare against the coin being inserted.
There is a dial on the comparator - I suggest turning it full counter-clockwise to reduce sensitivity. The CC-33 is large format designed for dollars, and large tokens. Basically the same as the 16' just larger.
The coin optics board - also known as ABC optics lives directly below the coin comparator, once the coin is validated by the comparator a second check is done making sure that a coin is falling and passing each of the 3 optics - if the coin is not falling at the right rate of speed or is being pulled backwards (ie a coin on a string used for cheating) then you cut a error 21 (coin in - tilt). I believe you have already simulated that in your above testing.
Finally the hopper has a wheel which is designed to pickup a certain size of coin - the hopper optics (u shaped plastic thingamabog) is positioned such that each coin passing counts it out. Too big or too small of a coin and it won't pass by the optics correctly and may not be picked up by the hopper wheel.
Please take a picture of your coin comparator and harness and post it.
IF your using a cell phone camera you may need to email yourself the picture first to reduce the size before posting.
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......(however testing the input with 11_1/12_1 with a piece of paper the input flags, along with if I block/unplug the optics I get alarm 21 in the winners paid.....
It appears you have no problem getting into the tests...that's good.
However, you're not ever supposed to trigger a code [21] when doing the "popsicle" test...that's highly unusual. lol
That tells me that you're really may not actually be in the Input Tests of 10,11,12 Coin-in ABC optics tests, but rather, in the Output Tests of the 11,12 Coin out/in meters? (Phew! That's a tongue twister!)
Those are for the mechanical counters...each press of the spin button makes the mechanical counters click.
You didn't hear the counters click because you were sticking stuff in between the ABC optics...lol
I could be wrong....haha...I'm only human and you did't make a video of what you did.
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It is the cc16 comparator I've attached a photo I have on my phone I'm at work right now so if it's to large I can try again when i get home. I Also tested the counters in the output tests and they were working along with the hopper motor, sounds, reels, pushbutton lights ect. Sounds like since I never see the red led on the comparator in an on state and the rake doesn't work I should try a working comparator off ebay? Nope says file is to large
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It does state cc-16-d.100
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IF your using a cell phone camera you may need to email yourself the picture - you will be prompted to reduce the size.
Then post the one that you mailed yourself.
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The LED on the coin comparitor ( CC ) doesn't come on while the door is in an open-state.
It only comes on when the door optics are working, and when the door latch is pressed fully downwards.
Right at that very moment, whatever number is in the [Coins Played] window of the display goes out for a couple of seconds, then comes back on.
At that time, the "Insert Coin" light should come on as well, and the machine is then ready to accept a coin that matches the coin in the CC.
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Optics are working. insert coin light comes on and a zero in the coins played light up after door closed and latched. Used a mirror with the door closed and latched and never see the led on the cc
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Photo
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I'm surprised you don't have quarters coming out of the top, because there's no coin in the coin comparitor.
See that label that says "Slide To Replace Coin"?
Slide it to the right enough to put a coin behind it, and let it close against the left side.
The coin you put in there is the only coin the machine will accept...are you using quarters?
Close the door latch all the way down , watch for the "Insert Coin" lamp to come back on again, and drop a coin in the slot.
If the machine doesn't accept the coin, tell us where the coin went to.
There's only three places it can go...>>>
The hopper bowl.
The coin tray.
The hole in the bottom of your machine.
If it goes anywhere else, your house is haunted.
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I have a quarter in there and tried three different quarters. at first it would go to the coin tray because the rake on the C.C never opened. I shimmed out the rake and now it goes to the hopper but doesn't give a credit to the machine....
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Yes I didn't realize there needed to be a test coin in there until last weekend.
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Underneath that coin comparitor is a small, sandwiched circuit board called the coin-in optics.
When the coin falls thru the coin comparitor, it goes thru the ABC coin-in optics board, and if good, sends logic data signal back to the MPU to register a credit.
The ABC optic board works by "seeing" coins falling thru three optical eyes at a certain speed and direction.
You need to to do the "popsicle stick" test to verify that it is functioning.
Take more pictures of the wiring around that.
Maybe someone will spot something wrong.
Wiggle the wiring connectors a little.
okay...the other thing you could do is take a small screwdriver.
Stick it in the sensitivity potentiometer dial and turn it counter-clockwise all the way - until it stops.
Then turn it clock-wise a 1/4 turn.
The CC willl now be adjusted to, somewhat in the ballpark, to accept a U.S. quarter.
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Wiggled plug connections again, I played with the sensitivity potentiometer on the comparator with no luck. Did "popsicle test" through the three-input test's according to my manual... 10_1 would be used with both comparator and the ABC. I could not get the input to flag in the winners paid with the door shut or open. I went to 11_1 and 12_1 with the comparator disconnected and got the optics to flag every time. I can post some pictures tomorrow. Everything seems to be working but the comparator...
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The [10-1] test not working is not good.
That means the top "A" optic of the ABC optics is possibly burned out.
You're able to get the 11 ("B" optic) and 12 ("C" optic) to "flag"...unfortunately, you need all 3 optics to be working in order for the circuit board to register a credit.
I'm still not convinced you did the test right.
The door has to be physically opened.
The coin comparitor is not needed...in fact, it's in the way of doing the tests.
Are you mechanically-inclined?
Can you take apart the ABC optics sandwich, clean it, take some pictures of it spread open, and then re-assembled it back in the machine?
Could you try this first?
Turn that sensitivity dial on the CC fully clockwise, close the door, and drop some coins in?
If that doesn't help with coin acceptance, try it again but this time, turn the sensitivity dial fully counter-clockwise and drop some coins in.
Shimming out the rake is the same thing as removing it entirely.
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I work on cnc machines for a living. Electrical and mechanical. I will try the 10_1 test tomorrow with the comparator disconnected. For having the machine only 2 weeks I have gained alot of knowledge and lingo from reading the forum and this being my first post to the fourm.
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Earlier, you triggered the [21] coin-in optics error code.
The only to clear that is to close the door.
You've cleared it, that means the door optics are working...we just gotta get the coin-in optics to work!
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Bunk, if the optic is not working What about clipping Q4
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Clipping the Q4 chip off is something that Jim has always recommended.
At this point, it is worth a try Jay, because this coin-in board isn't registering anything back to the MPU.
I just don't know exactly what clipping off that embedded chip does tho?....it's right smack in the middle of the triangled ABC optics.
I'd rather see if he has the correct encoder guide that's sandwiched between the two optics boards.
If the encoder coin guide is too big, that would explain why the coins don't pass thru the "A" optical beam...but it doesn't explain why the "popsicle test" doesn't work.
I'll be honest, sometimes I couldn't get the [10-1] "popsicle test" to work with a known-good coin-in optics board either!
If you want to try cutting off the Q4 chip Busser, look at the photo below...it has three legs.
With a screwdriver tip, nudge against the body of the chip, it should break right off of the solder pads.
Click on photo to enlarge if needed...>>>
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Ill give the 10_1 test a shot the correct way first when I get home before Start busting chips off the circuit board. Ill post back thanks again!!
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So tonight's troubleshooting gave the 10_1 test with comparator unhooked. The input (optic) never flagged for 10_1. I pulled the ABC apart and checked the senders with a camera they looked good. I cleaned everything up and noticed the receiver side of the board had some burnt looking spots on the circuit board for the optic receivers. ( I cleaned the back side of the boards after this) . I also verified the middle of the ABC was set for 25cent. Also played with the coin comparator sensitivity + or - all listed above made no change with the machine accepting coins. I will attach photos after this post
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Pic1
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Back of optic receiver looks burnt?
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Lights on the Sending side of optics look good?
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Wiggled wires and verified pins were seating in cable connectors while preforming 10_1... would the next step be to remove the mentioned Q4 chip??? Cant break what's already not working is a good attitude.
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Yes, is yours same as pic Bunker posted? Some are different. I take a needle nose and smash it then clean up the area.
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Okay I'll try cutting the conductors off the c4 chip and see what happens as always thanks again
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If you still have it apart, plug the burnt red harness connector back onto the coin-in optics board, turn on the machine's power switch, turn off your room lights, and view the optics with a cellphone camera.
IF they're all good, you will see three blue-ish lights coming out of the emitters...it looks pretty cool really!
If you ony see the bottom two optics, then you KNOW that "A" emitter optic is toast and that's why the [10-1] test doesn't flag.
oh...you've shown that in Reply #26....oh well...haha
On the black plastic encoder guide, I wish you would have shown us a picture of the whole piece....I don't know the difference using the part numbers...I'm nowhere near an S+ right now....we'll have to trust your word that the encoder guides a quarter thru the three ABC optics.
oh! Clean the three optic holes in the black plastic spacers too...sometimes lint and "coin dust" clogs them up.
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The pic of the guide says (25 cents / SBA)
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One one version it’s Q4 and on another variant of the board it’s Q3.
I believe it’s a transistor and not a chip.
That was my conjecture that if the board is bad removing this won’t hurt.
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The pic of the guide says (25 cents / SBA)
haha...thanks SCM...I never even looked at it...I can see the curve on it now.
So that means the quarters were indeed falling thru the ABC beams.
I'm hoping he coul show us if he was able to see the "A" beam with a digital camera.
I was looking at some optics in my workroom Monday...they looked like interstellar asteroids lit up....haha
Jay,
I think I've seen those switching transistors marked as Q2 as well.
They're in the SOT-23 package...as in the drawing below.
In the Q4 version, the chip comes off of the pin-13 of the [U4] chip.
One time I posted some photos of all the different coin-in optics boards on the old NLG website.
Think I had six different versions of these boards.
Click on photo to enlarge if needed...>>>
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Can you post a picture showing the side of the comparator, specifically the connector I've circled in red? That doesn't look quite right to me from the picture you've posted.
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Good catch knagl....! :sherlock:
It looks like the coin comparitor is missing the bottom black ground wire?
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Are the three photos I posted not showing up? I posted a photo of the three emitters working???
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I will grab a photo of the comparator plug when I get home from work thanks again
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Are the three photos I posted not showing up? I posted a photo of the three emitters working???
The pictures are okay...I didn't see them when I posted for some reason.
Although the three optics are lit up, logic data isn't going back to the MPU as registered credits.
Knagl saw that your coin comparitor plug doesn't appear right...that might explain why you're not getting credits and the rake isn't functioning.
Personally, I can't see the black wire that's supposed to be on the bottom pin of that connector.
Normally we see the purple wire between the red loop, the yellow wire under it, skip one hole, and the bottom pin with the black ground wire.
I've attached a couple photos.
Click on any photo to enlarge if needed...>>>
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Okay thanks I'll grab some photos after work..
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His plug does look different though, has a weird flange on it?
I have two S-Plus machines, both coin comparator plugs look exactly the same.
Just thought I’d throw this pic of mine in the mix for reference.
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Black wire is there just buried.
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Hmm...okay.
I have no idea what's going on with that harness.
It looks like a housing/wiring tab of some sort.
I'd pull that black harness out of there from behin the CC and re-route it behind the metal CC bracket instead....it could be blocking the rake from opening up to direct coins to the hopper.
Try pressing the little white Service Coin button on the coin-in optics board a couple of times.
Does it ring up a couple of credits to play with the door opened?
I'm assuming your speaker is working and the volume is turned up a little?
Twinfire...your CC photo is ten times larger and clearer than Busser's....that's awesome!
Busser's photo is only 86kb while yours is 866kb....photos CAN be up to 1000kb in size.
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I'll reroute the wires.. speaker works in the output tests but that's the only time I hear it. Mostly... It dinged once when I was cleaning the optic for the hopper coin out.. doesn't make noise on start up. Also the white service coin button on the ABC does not give credits with the door open. Happy Friday all!!
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Clipped Q4 and it's working!!!! You guys are great I will definitely donate to the cause.. as I'm kind of addicted now. My guess to fixing it the right way would be a new abc?
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Yes - replacing the ABC is the right way to go, when you get around to it......
Three-ish questions:
1. Does your test credit button work now that Q4 is gone.
2. If you release the strap on your rake does it work correctly. If not you might want to get the solenoid replaced while your at it.
3. Does the header on your Bill Validator light up, and if so does it take $1.00's
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Test credit still doesn't work. The rake doesn't work without the shim under it and the machine doesnt have a bill validator in it. But I'd like one
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A slot machine without a bill validator in it would explain why the yellow $1-$100 yellow light does't come on.
Jim of Midwest slots has a phone number listed on the NLG homepage.
He would have all the parts you need.....tell him I sent ya! lol
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I'll definitely look him up.
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don't waist your money buying a used ABC optic board. yours will work as is for a long time, doesn't interfere with any machine functions.
have had machines working like that for 10 years .
take a picture of what you have for a bill unit, also the inner door around the door bezel, want to see if the lamp board is there.
Jim
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Congratulations on getting your machine up & running again! :applause:
Being the curious type, I now have a couple questions regarding the “Q4 transistor”:
1. Why is everyone cutting it out & not replacing it? :wtf1:
2. Is it because nobody really knows what it is, or where to buy it? :Scratch-Head:
If anyone has the answers please share. :thank_you:
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Q4 is not necessarily bad.
In the absence of it, it bypasses the inhibit function.
What is wrong with the optics board differs from one to the next.
They are cheap enough to replace entirely, but you’re stuck in the mud until you have one.
So castration is the easiest interim (or as suggested long term) solution.
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The switching transistor is a dime-a-dozen at places like Mouser, Futurelec, Jameco, Digi-Key, TTL, and other electronic stores.
Personally, I don't completely understand schematic drawings that well enough to know what the Q2,Q4 switches on/off.
Like Jay said, it has something to do with the inhibit line of the circuitry as you see in the Reply#24 drawings I posted up.
I DO however, like just slicing them off, and playing the machine - that's the ultimate goal. :cool_thumb_up:
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Thanks guys, appreciate the explanations.
Jay, nicely put, thank you, especially the castration part :lol:
Stayouttadabunker, I went back & checked out the diagram you posted, nice, includes part numbers too! I didn’t notice it before, thanks for posting that.
I am trying to keep track of all the workarounds I learn here for future use on my machines if needed.
Thanks again all!
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Bill validator location photos
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more
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Show Jim of Midwest Slots the top picture in Reply #55, and he'll send you a JCM DBV-200 with the updated bill firmware chip.
Do you have the metal cashbox?
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I don't. I will send him a message thanks