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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: rjpohl on December 27, 2016, 12:34:55 PM
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I have got this machine accepting the coins and and the reels spin and stop..
Problems:
#1. The coin accepted light never comes on (the insert coin comes on and goes off after first coin is inserted). It's a 5 coin machine and the top box shows each coin being accepted but the coin accpted light never lights. the bulb is good.
#2. I 've never hit any win at all (I've played atleast 50 spins. I've tried to spin reels and hold clock while stopping reels on a win and it still doesn't pay out.
probably got a few other problems that will show up.
thanks
Bob
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not sure if it's a problem but there is something on the top of the capacitor in the pic that looks odd to me,
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Bob, the coin accepted switch is on the left side of the reel, its part of the coin accept relay circuits, don't have the schematic here with me, but I could probably tell you which wire it is later, any way the color of the wire on the bulb socket MIGHT be the same as coming off the relay switch. chech all the switch contacts on that relay, if they are all good then you have a broken wire, pushed in contact on the beau plug, or dirty contact.
the insert coin should go out after the first coin is inserted.
check the zero stop switch on the hopper for the payout problem, count up the counter by hand and reset it , then do it again, watch the zero stop switch, it should drop open immediately on the first click.
that's an old paper cap, probably just some crud coming out of the vent hole, could be drying out?? just knock it off and clean it up, you might be ok, if not read the value on the side of the cap and replace with the same. the important thing is to replace the same way especially if it is an electrolytic cap, polarity is critical, if you put it in backwards it will pop.
Jim
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Progress!!
I cleaned and adjsuted cpin accept contacts on the left side of the reel, the coin accepted light now lights with first coin.
I can manually trip coin switch on hopper to simulate coins being paid out and the winner paid light comes on, it goes out with next handle pull (which I believe is right).
I still have not had any payouts while playing or manually stopping reels at a payout.
Thanks
Bob
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here's pic of side of reels with the 3 switch sets. Can someonen tell which one is A, B and C?
Also thought maybe someone is see a problem with them
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here's a wire that is hanging loose, any idea where it goes and if it 's needed? it's on right middle of pciture and has a blue insluated connector of it.
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Yellow /white. Coin out meter. Not needed now.
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Photo of the reel mechanism switches, A, B, C and coin relay switch.
Okay, Jim helped you out on the coin accepted light.
Try cleaning the payout relay, usually located left top side of hopper.
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Here's a few pics of the payout counter/100 tooth wheel. I have cleaned the contacts and I believe they are operating properly. I also know the hopper works because I operated coil and it spins. I've tried several payouts and the hopper never starts.
Insert Coin light is on, goes off with first coin and coin accepted light comes on.
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I tried testing the 3 50v coils on the hopper, 2 of the 3 tested good using jumpers, the 3rd (pictured) did not. Is there another way to test the coil to see if it's open (bad)?
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I can just barely see the second alligator clip in the bottom left of photo. Did you go directly to both taps on the relay itself? The coil looks good. I don't see the shrink tube pulled back from 70 tap.
There are two switches in that relay bank that close and start hopper turning. 52 to 30. Is that the relay you pushed by hand and hopper spun?
Jim
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You can check a coil for resistance, but you will need to compare with a good coil and one side should be disconnected.
I checked a G-33 -2800 on 200 ohms and got a reading between 110 and 105 ohms resistance. If no reading then there is an open.
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For testing the coils I connected one lead to the 50V fuse at back of cabinet and the other to the yellow wire on the coin switch (using my volt meter I did get 53v). the coil pictured aboove did not pull in the other 2 on the hopper did. And yes that is the coil that starts the hopper spinning.
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Prior to checking the payout coil, did you check the Safety Timer? Bottom left side of the machine, it might need to be reset.
Safety Timer and the Payout relay are the two switch between the 110v and the hopper motor.
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Prior to checking the payout coil, did you check the Safety Timer? Bottom left side of the machine, it might need to be reset.
Safety Timer and the Payout relay are the two switch between the 110v and the hopper motor.
The safety time is reset (light is off).
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I set the hopper outside the slot and used an extension cable to connect it. I then tripped coin switch and pulled handle, I stopped reels on a pay. at that time i used my volt meter and it showed 53 volts at coil (coil did not pull in). I then tripped coin switch and pulled handle. When the reels stopped (not on pay) I rechecked voltage to coil and it was 0.
I un-soldered the coil and removed from machine, then took ohm reading at the 2 lugs and it had no reading.
I feel pretty certain that all leads to coil being bad. Its a G-32 2500. Where is a good place to buy one of these?
any other thoughts before I buy the coil??
thanks
Bob
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Good work finding the cause of the problem, sounds like the coil is bad.
Used coils on eBay are fairly reasonable or try some sellers on the NLG site.
Since you have the coil out.
Under the ID wrap there is a possibility that a wire is broken.
If this is the case, its possible to unwind and reconnect.
A couple of winding's won't be missed.
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Great diagnostic job. IF you need a coil I have a few friends that have many Bally Parts. PM me. One guy has no computer at all. I will send you his phone number.
Happy New Year To All
Ra
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Great diagnostic job. IF you need a coil I have a few friends that have many Bally Parts. PM me. One guy has no computer at all. I will send you his phone number.
Happy New Year To All
Thanks, I ordered 2 off ebay last night.
Bob
Ra
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In stalled new coil and set machine to payout, sparks flying everywhere!!!! After some thought I decided to adjust contacts (some were real wide apart) and now coil pulls in, hopper runs and payouts!!!
Problems: Set it for one coin payout thaT that should have paid $1.00 but paid everytime. Then set it for 5 coin payout (should be $5) but it paid out $1.05 again.
I'll play with it some more tomorrow and retry a few payouts and see what happens.
Atleast this is major progress.
thanks for all the help.
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Great, you fixed the major problem.
Regarding the payouts, the extra coin could have been stuck in the chute from a previous payout.
This area between the pivot roller and where the coin exits the machine builds up with oil and dirt preventing the last coin to drop.
The payout of $1.00 on 5 coins might be the odds step up unit. Do the lights move across the upper glass as coins are added?
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Went I went out today to run some payouts I started having problems with the contact arching real bad (there are flashes of blue as the contacts scatter). I actually had a little ball of fire once. If I let the relay pull in on it's own I get a lot of scatter and blue arcs, but if I use my finger and apply a little pressure the scattering and arcs go away.
Pic 1: is the gap too wide on relay?
Relay also seems hard to push in by hand compared to other relays.
How wide of a gap should there be between the open contacts??
thanks
Bob
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Might be the wrong return spring for the armature.
Here is what you can do, remove the spring and check to see if the armature moves freely.
Temporally replace the spring with a rubber band. Tie a knot in the rubber band a little off center.
Install the rubber band to where it has just enough power to pull the relay armature back.
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takiing the spring off doesn't help. WShould the metal top part touch and stay engaged against top of coin when energized? There is a gag when it pulls in and it just scatters/sparks until I push it down by hand.
Can I add a spacer below the coil to close the top gap?
thanks
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Give it a try, it might do the trick.
The sparks are from the contacts not the coil?
Sparks from the coil to the armature plate would indicate the coil is shorting to its core or frame.
If that is the case the coil should be replaced.
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Yes the sparks are from contacts as they scatter. I'll try a small shim to close gap and see if helps.
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Might want to check the contacts that are suppose to open, do open when the armature is in the down position. Also check for any metallic debris between contact blades.
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when the armature pulls in should it bottom out against top of coil? Right now it only pulls down about half way.
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Right, the metal plate is pulled to the core when it becomes magnetized.
Does it work if you give it a little help.
What is the number on the coil? I'm not where I can check what the coil # is at this moment.
Maybe someone else can post the coil number for the payout relay.
Could have been the wrong one to begin with, never know what the person before did to the machine.
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It doesn't pull all the way down on it's own, I have to apply a little pressure with my finger. When I do apply the pressure it the scattering and arcing stops. The coil is G-32-2500.
thanks for all your time and help.
Bob
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Checked 3 diff hoppers, 922, 956 and another 956. Payout relay in all 3 were the same. G-31-2000.
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Thanks for checking that out.
Now does anyone know if the G-32-2500 I have is harder to pull in than the G-31-2000?
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Found this on bally em pinball site. -2000 has more pull than -2500. Less resistance greater pulling power.
The (generally accepted) Coil Pull-In Strength Rule: The greater the number of turns of wire on a coil, the weaker (less pull in strength) the solenoid coil. Inversely, the fewer the number of wire turns the stronger the pull-in strength of the solenoid coil.
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Found this on bally em pinball site. -2000 has more pull than -2500. Less resistance greater pulling power.
The (generally accepted) Coil Pull-In Strength Rule: The greater the number of turns of wire on a coil, the weaker (less pull in strength) the solenoid coil. Inversely, the fewer the number of wire turns the stronger the pull-in strength of the solenoid coil.
thanks, that really helps and it seems to support the need for a different coil. I'll try to locate the g-31-2000.
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I bought a unit out of a pinball machine. Got the whole thing on eBay, listed under pinball parts.
Had 4 or 5 coils, armatures and contacts on it.
Will check to see what has not been used. Might have the coil you need.
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Anyone know what the thing is that is soldered between the 2 poles on coil? I circled it in red. How do I test it to see of it's good or bad?
I had somone say it was a "arc suppressor".
thanks
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Didn't get the photo.
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Didn't get the photo.
sorry, i just added it.
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This is a schematic for a 809-K 5 coin machine
Showing two resistors, they appear to be in the same position as your machine.
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Just wanted to post this photo of the resistors on the payout relay coil.
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On the machine I have the small resisror is connected to the right lug on the coil. Does it matter which lug???
thanks
Bob
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Bob. according to the schematic and the other picture posted, the resistors on your unit are identical to his, so all that is correct. the orange wire is the 50vac wire.
the coil should pull in all the way, using your finger, can you push the moveable part easily ? is there anything obstructing the movement, I have seen the white plastic melt when that coil remained energized for a long period of time.
last thing, where does the small resistor finally end up , looks like the bottom contact of the switch, where does that wire lead to? you should remove the 470 ohm 10 watt resistor from the coil, and measure it, also measure the coil, and measure the small resistor as well, if any of the value have changed that would affect the operation of the coil, are you getting 50 vac to the coil?
Jim
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I have 53v on orange wire.
Large resistor: meter set at 200: no reading open, meter set at 2000: reading 474
Small resistor: meter set at 200: no reading open, meter set at 2000: no reading open see pic for both end of small resistor.
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Bob, using some test leads, if you apply 50vac (orange wire) to the coil and apply a direct yellow wire to the other lug on the coil, will it pull in the way it should? the two orange wires with the tracer on them, where do they terminate?
Jim
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Bob, using some test leads, if you apply 50vac (orange wire) to the coil and apply a direct yellow wire to the other lug on the coil, will it pull in the way it should? the two orange wires with the tracer on them, where do they terminate?
Jim
I used the test leads connecting Orange to one leg and Yellow to the other, the coil did pull in all the way. I also found some junk on the plastic piece from where it had gotten hot, removed it. The 2 Orange wire with the tracers go back to the hopper beau plug.
I do think the coil needs to be shimmed up a littler because the metal piece has to go a bit past parallel to bottom out on coil.
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Couple of photos for reference on spacing.
So where are you at with the situation? Still arcing and sparking or just not pulling all the way.
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New Coil (G-31-2000) and it works perfectly!!!!
Had a few payouts w/an extra coinn but that seemed to clear up after a few payouts.
thanks to everyone for all the help!
[size=78%]Bob[/size]
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Jackpot bell question.
Should the bell ring on every payout??
thanks
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You either have to follow the wiring on the reals sewing machines pay on every payout some machines the Bell only goes off above 18 coins from the belly goes off on jackpot lockup I myself like to rewire the machine so every time it pays the Bell goes off the reason people have these machines in their home as for the noise they love it some people I put a switch in where they can shut the Bell off I guess it just depends on preference it's easy to add another set of contacts to the payout relay then every time it engages the Bell goes off
Set the machine up for a jackpot see if the Bell goes off then set it up for the next highest pay see if the Bell goes off and work your way down and see where it page and the bell goes off