873 Lighting issue

[Phan000]

Having issues with the top lights in this machine.  The ones with the yellow arrows don’t light, even with new bulbs.

The bottom 7’s are intermittent.  Video attached.

Any good tools for grabbing the bulbs in the wood framing?

I cleaned the sockets, but no luck.

Thanks!

https://youtube.com/shorts/8jKzyrTMjiw?feature=share

[off-track]

Any good tools for grabbing the bulbs in the wood framing?

A short piece of rubber tubing slightly smaller than the bulb itself works well (I'm thinking it's 3/8" id for those bulbs but could be off?).  They also sell a rubber coated bulb extractor for ~$23 but the tubing has always worked for me.  I think I used a piece of fuel hose.  Pinball part suppliers also sell a "hose on a stick" bulb extractor for ~$9 but that's all that it is.

[Phan000]

Great idea,  that makes it easier.

After  looking at the switches up there, I noticed that the lights come on when I jiggle the top just right.

The only two that won’t light no matter what are circled in yellow.

When I manually depress the top armature on the upper 5th coin relay, they do light up.

Coil itself and the switches are in perfect condition. 

[wolftalk]

those lights are controlled by switches on:

1] the jackpot relay
2] 5th coin jackpot relay
3] 4th coin jackpot relay
4] the 1st-3rd coin jackpot relays when you get a 777 and the lights flash

for the top row left and center lights, the problem would be the 5th coin jackpot relay switch with green/yellow and white/yellow wires.  Needs to be closed when relay unpowered.  Make sure you are getting good switch blade movement - short blade should visibly deflect after the contacts touch.

for the entire bottom row being flaky, check jackpot relay switch with orange/white and solid green wires.  It's also closed when the relay is upowered.

[Phan000]

Thanks for this info David.  I almost made things better…. 

In attempting to adjust the suspect switch I misadjusted others. Now have a bunch of lights being difficult.

So with the 3 way switches,  in an unpowered state, the middle  blade should only contact the top correct?  Then when powered, the middle blade contacts and depresses the bottom?

The top row switch was the most challenging.  I got it  working with a jumper, but could not adjust it correctly.


The attachment shows my current status

[wolftalk]

So with the 3 way switches,  in an unpowered state, the middle  blade should only contact the top correct?  Then when powered, the middle blade contacts and depresses the bottom?

yes.

there's a balancing act.  Too much down tension on the upper blades can limit the up travel of the entire slotted plastic switch lifter, which affects other switches on the stacks.

while the "rule" is you only adjust the short blades, there's a few exceptions.  One exception is when the long blades are doing some of the lifting work.  While there is a spring attached to the armature plate, it's not strong enough to bend all the blades.  So ...

1] snug down the switch stack screws.  Don't overtighten as they are soft and you can shear them.

2] lift up the lifter with your finger.  If it can go up significantly higher, adjust the long blades to provide more up tension.  If necessary, bend the blades above them away so they aren't limiting the travel.  Also make sure all the long blades are pushing against the top of their slots ... i.e. you want the long blades to all be helping raise the lifter/armature plate away from the coil top.

3] adjust the top blades one at a time so they touch and slightly deflect the long blades below them, but not so much they push down the entire lifter.  Verify each by pushing down the armature plate onto the coil top and letting go to check the overtravel action of the blades.

4] adjust the lower blades for correct operation when pushing down the armature.

you adjust the blades by bending where they enter the stack.  There are switch adjuster tools, but you can use needlenose pliers or a flat bladed screwdriver.  Don't bend/kink the blades anywhere away from the stack ... that can creating problems if blades touch that shouldn't. 

originally the blades were perfectly flat and the correct action happened due to the wafer spacing in the stack.  However, the wafers shrink, which causes the stack to get loose and some bends in the blades are needed to offset the shrink and contact wear.

------------------------

below is the schematic.  The yellow highlights are how the 3x3 lamp grid in the middle is powered.  The blue highlights are the coin lights (row/line enabled).  The orange highlight/arrow is the flashing function when a 777 happens.

the top/bottom/middle rows of lamps are all wired differently wrt which one is directly connected to jackpot relay switches.  That lets you look at which lamps don't work and have a pretty good idea which switch can cause the problem.

1] your row 2 (top) left coin light isn't on, but the right one is.  That has to be the lamp, poor connection in socket or broken socket wire.

2] entire row 2 (top) out but the coin lights work - must be the jackpot relay switch ... or something unlikely such as the left lamp being blown AND the 5th coin jackpot relay switch is bad

3] row 1 (middle) left and right lamps out, but center on - 5th coin jackpot relay switch

the row 1 coin lights are not shown ... they are GI (general illumination) ... always on.

[Phan000]

Thanks so much wolf for the very detailed explanation.  I’m sure I’ll sort it out.

The second coil down on that stack is attached to the 5th coin jackpot relay switches, correct?   This is the only stack  that I improved & mangled.

[wolftalk]

don't know.

if the label is missing, then one lug on each coil is connected to orange wire 70.  The other coil lug wire is:

jackpot relay - 36-4 - yellow/brown
4th coin jackpot relay - 91-1 - grey/red
5th coin jackpot relay - 58-2 - white/black

[Phan000]

So I got all of that set of lights to work… but

The original two top left only function with a jumper.  They power on an off normally with a jumper, but I can’t seem to adjust them in any way to make them work without.

[wolftalk]

you mean the ones circled below?

if yes, the middle row left (green circle) is connected to the middle row right, so look for issue with wiring between those two sockets.

the top row left (red circle) is a green/yellow wire going that goes to a jackpot relay switch and a 5th coin jackpot relay switch.  Since that wire connects three things together, one of the three will have a double wire attached to the switch blade.  Make sure that double wire is soldered ok, and make sure there's nothing wrong with the wiring on the socket.

where are the jumpers?

[Phan000]

The jumpers are on green/yellow and white yellow on the 5th coin jackpot switch.

They turn on the same problems lights that I started with (pictured below)

Work perfectly with jumper.

[wolftalk]

you're jumpering the green/yellow (43-3) and white/yellow (53-3) wires together at the switch blades on the 5th coin jackpot relay?

if yes, those wires are connected to a switch that should be closed, so the jumper would be redundant.   The switch isn't working.  Could be the adjustment, contacts, poor solder joint wires->blades, or if the solder lug piece of metal is stacked on top of the switch leaf metal in the stack and that interface is cruddy.

however, per the schematic, the 43-3 wire should connect to the left lamp, 53-3 to the center and a white/red (51-3) wire to the right lamp.   The lamps your jumper is controlling don't make sense per the schem.

all the lamp sockets have a blue wire connected to one side of them.  It's probably a bare wire going between the sockets with the blue wire connected someplace to the bare wire.

what wire colors are connected to the other side of each lamp socket in the top row?  Picture is fine.

[Phan000]

Ok.  I’ll add some photos later.   Thanks.

So on the switch that I jumped,  both the top and bottom short blades should always stay in contact?

[wolftalk]

So on the switch that I jumped,  both the top and bottom short blades should always stay in contact?

nope. 

in your pic with the alligator clip on the green wire (I assume that's 43-3), the blade above it should have white/yellow wire 53-3 on it and the green wire blade is the long one that should only contact the blade above or below, not both at the same time.

the right gator clip isn't shorting to the blue/orange wire above, is it?  That would be cheating :-)

pics from further back so the wire colors are visible helps.

still doesn't explain which lamps are on/off tho.  It should not be possible for the right lamp to be always on and the center lamp off if the lamps/socket/wiring are good.

[Phan000]

Here are the photos

The first second and third are of the 5th coin switch.  I had jumped from the white/yellow to green and yellow on the other side. 

[wolftalk]

the wiring looks right.   The issues are:

1] when you attached the clip to the white/yellow, did the clip touch the lugs with the blue/orange wire on either side?

2] the gap between the armature plate and coil top looks kinda small.  Could just be the angle.

the white plastic lifter the blades poke thru has a hooked piece on the bottom that limits the up travel of the lifter.  When the relay is unpowered, the lifter should be all the way up with the hooked piece mashed against the bracket.   If you can move the lifter up more with your finger, you need to adjust the tension on the LONG blades to create more lift.  If necessary, adjust the upper short blades away from the long ones to get the lifter all the way up.

once you have the lifter all the way up, you can then adjust the short blades for proper switch operation.

the pic I'd like to see is the wiring on the lamp sockets.  Your relay wiring looks correct - sorta.  It looks like a blue/orange harness wire attaching to a bottom switch (correct), then they used blue/brown (incorrect) jumpers to connect to more blades.   However, the lamps that are lit don't make sense.

[Phan000]

I adjusted the middle blades a bit and got it straightened out.

Thanks for all the assistance.  Chrome is a bit pocky on the top of the award glass and door, but others a pretty sweet machine.

[wolftalk]

still wondering about the lamp socket wiring.

when everything is right, the winning 777 line will flash and the other 7's in the 3x3 grid will be turned off ... assuming your machine has the flasher relay/circuit.

if the game doesn't have the flashing stuff, then all that matters in the correct horizontal 777 row lights when the payline is enabled.

based on the lamps that were off, I'd check a 777 win on paylines 4 and 5 if the game flashes.