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Author Topic: Fuse questions  (Read 3413 times)

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Offline DavidLee

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2022, 07:06:27 PM »
Okay,

If the plunger can spin, but won’t pull out. Most likely the nylon sleeve is deformed.
With caution insert the plunger into a drill press or motor.
Drill press would work the best as for control. Drill motor might be safer due to very varying speed.
Which ever way suits your situation, apply some cutting oil and or penetrating oil.

With caution hold the coil with a glove spin the plunger, apply slight up and down movement.

Offline Lake Dude

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2022, 10:57:30 PM »
Should have been packing. But noooo... I'm screwing around with the slot machine!

So,  I was looking at a fried step up coil,  a coin switch that was not registering and a scavenger cool that I thought worked. But was not. While poking around,  the scavenger coil energized and released,  but was not working when I pressed the button. A little tug on the coil wire 31 and I found a broken solder connection. When I reattached the wire. The scavenger coil energized and stayed in.  I'm guessing that is not good, and perhaps why the coins are not registering?

I followed 31 all the way to the top cabinet looking for a short.  I could not find one. It has to have a short,  as it is causing the solenoid to pull in. ] I've got the schematic to read on my journey and try and figure out the short.  I am wondering if the wire I pulled might be part of the problem?

As for the coil :I_agree_:  is going to be destructive.   I'm going to try and save it,  but have one on order,  just in case.

I am hoping I'm close to solving this mystery.

Offline DavidLee

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2022, 06:07:48 AM »
Well your making progress, but not in the travel packing department.
Scavenger coil may need to stay energized, Wolftalk will know.
I shy away from $ machines for the lack of coins.

When working in certain areas / units, it’s a good practice the closely observed all pertaining connections and mechanical parts.

Schematic for the 1088 quarter machine will have the basic wiring, your machine may vary slightly due to the scavenger set up.

Offline wolftalk

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2022, 05:00:00 PM »
I followed 31 all the way to the top cabinet looking for a short.  I could not find one. It has to have a short,  as it is causing the solenoid to pull in. ] I've got the schematic to read on my journey and try and figure out the short.  I am wondering if the wire I pulled might be part of the problem?

the scavenger coil is designed to allow it to stay powered forever.  If someone deposited three coins and didn't spin for a long time or jammed the coin return button down, it'd be someone inconvenient for the coil to keep burning up :-)

there's 5 reasons the scavenger coil should energize:

- handle is pulled
- coin reject button pushed
- reels are spinning
- payout is happening
- you've deposited three coins

when the game is ready to accept a coin, the scavenger coil is unpowered.  This is the opposite of how the coin lockout magnet worked on most games ... that thing needed to be powered to allow a coin to pass thru the mech to the tripwire exit.

so you need to check the five places and see which one is causing the coil to power.  Schem chunk is below.

if you had to push the reset button and then the scavenger coil powered, that implies the payout relay powered and your hopper shoulda turned on.


not sure if it was clear, but dropping a coin in the entry can have three outcomes:
1] it makes it thru the mech and depresses the coin switch tripwire briefly
2] it dumps back to the tray
3] it gets jammed in the mech

I've been assuming it's correctly operating the trip wire when you've been having issues with the coin relay tripping.  If it's just getting dumped to the tray, that can be the scavenger coil being energized at the wrong time or the mech itself not routing the coin to the correct outlet due to crud or adjustment.




Offline Lake Dude

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2022, 10:35:48 PM »
I replaced the burned out/ melted coil on the step up unit. I think I've made progress.  I've looked at the switch contacts and they certainly have seen their share of adjustments over the years. I've attached a photo.
I've got the mechanical part working (I think) if I press the step up coil once,  coin 2 payout window lights,  again and coin 3 payout also lights.  Interestingly enough,  the handle release solenoid energizes and the machine plays. Most times, it does not reset the handle and you can keep pulling. It does not seem to be resetting the step up unit by energizing the new coil. The scavenger coil does energize now and stays energized until the handle decides to lock,  then the scavenger releases.

I'm working on trying to understand the schematics so thankfully provided,  but still unsure I'm reading correctly.  Does the switches look correct for the step up unit?
I kind of think I'm working backwards towards the solution. I have cleaned the connectors on the back of the reel unit,  but not sure how to clean the sockets. I brushed them with a small brass parts cleaning brush,  but not sure how to clean the mating socket part.

Offline DavidLee

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2022, 06:49:23 AM »
One thing to check is the mechanical portion of the handle release.
Possibly it is a little sluggish and or sticking some how.
Also the little drop back mechanism that allows the handle release to function.
It could be stuck.

Try adding a little pressure on the handle release bar, then add a coin.
Could indicate contacts out of adjustment.


Offline wolftalk

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2022, 09:35:44 AM »

I've got the mechanical part working (I think) if I press the step up coil once,  coin 2 payout window lights,  again and coin 3 payout also lights.  Interestingly enough,  the handle release solenoid energizes and the machine plays. Most times, it does not reset the handle and you can keep pulling. It does not seem to be resetting the step up unit by energizing the new coil. The scavenger coil does energize now and stays energized until the handle decides to lock,  then the scavenger releases.

the new coil is the step-up coil.  The other solenoid coil on the unit is the reset coil.

the switches look correct.  The white peg operates the two left switches and opens both at zero (unit reset).  The brass peg operates the two switches on the right at top (step 2 of the unit when 3rd coin played).

when you pull the handle, the coin relay on the lower/left side of the reel mech needs to reset/latch.  If it stays tripped, the handle release will not latch and lock the handle.

if the handle release is not locked, then the coin unit won't reset and the scavenger will stay powered.

if the coin relay is resetting/latching, then per david the handle release mechanism probably has a mechanical issue.  Look for crud on the armature plate sticking the plate to the coil top.  If it's not crud, then rarely it can be a dimple worn in the plate with a burred edge or residual magnetism.

I have cleaned the connectors on the back of the reel unit,  but not sure how to clean the sockets. I brushed them with a small brass parts cleaning brush,  but not sure how to clean the mating socket part.

I wouldn't worry about the socket unless you have heavy corrosion or oxidation and cleaning the male pins doesn't fix it.  When the pins go into the socket, it tends to scrub the socket well enough to make a reliable connection.

if you do have heavy oxidation, then there are small round wire "tube" cleaning brushes that can be used

Offline DavidLee

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2022, 08:12:52 PM »
As Wolftalk stated about the female plug pin sockets a small wire cleaner would work.
Something like a welding nozzle tip brush possibly.

If there’s a connection problem between pin and socket.
Inspect it closely as be sure the assembly is in tack and solder joints are good.

I do this sometimes, but don’t recommend it.
Twist the suspected pin very slightly.
As it will ride the edges and hopefully make contact.

Offline Lake Dude

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2022, 01:50:31 AM »
To all those that have helped thus far...  :thank_you:

Progress has been made I've actually gotten the coins to be registered!  The exact cause remains a mystery,  but cleaning the switch contacts on the fan side of the reel assembly helped tremendously.

It now takes coins,  registers #1, #2 & #3. Dropping a coin unlocks the handle. Pulling the handle sounds the wheels,  which lock into place and pay correctly. It does not reset. The step up relay stays latched,  which I'm sure is why the previous coil melted.  (See photo)

I can manually release the coil to go another round.

Does anyone know why this coil would not release?

Offline DavidLee

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2022, 06:58:45 AM »
Check the step up unit switches, possibly a switch that supposed to open after the reset is out of adjustment.
Without taking to much time while the coil is energized, insert a non-metallic strip between any closed switch on the unit.
No guarantees this is the source, but it will give direction / indication.

Will review the schematic a little later for a better understanding of the situation.

Offline wolftalk

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2022, 04:05:50 PM »
I don't understand what "The step up relay stays latched" means.  Something is staying powered or not powering?

there's the step-up solenoid coil ("new coil" in post 24 pic), and there's a step-up relay that has a switch that powers the step-up solenoid.

if the step-up relay wasn't unpowering after the step-up solenoid plunger pulled in, the solenoid would stay powered and the coin unit wouldn't step.  Eventually the solenoid coil would burn up.

do you mean you play three coins and the lights move correctly (coin unit steps up), spin, then when you play a coin the coin unit does not reset?



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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2022, 04:25:18 PM »
Wolftalk,

After stepping up to the 3rd coin. The coil is staying energized.
I believe this is the situation.

Most likely a switch in the circuit is not opening.
Or contacts are on the wrong side of a control pin that actually moves the points open or closed.

Would like to see straight on photos of the unit switches open then closed.

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2022, 08:26:45 PM »
Hi guys,

I believe DavidLee is correct. I just tested what happens on each coin. Starting from home position on the step up unit.

1st coin

Scavenger coil engages
Handle unlocks
Pull handle works
Reels spin and lock
Handle locks

2nd and 3rd coin

Scavenger coil remains engaged from coin 1
Step up relay energizes
Step up coil clicks in and stays in
2nd/3rd coin payouts options light appropriately for coin deposited
Handle stays unlocked
Pull handle works
Reels spin and lock
Handle locks
Step up coil remains energized and at this point, quite hot.
If I open the step up relay by hand,  the step up coil de-energizes.
2nd/3rd payout options stay lit (step up does not reset)

Pic 086451 and 206193 home starting position
Pic 316065 and 376387 second coin deposited

Offline wolftalk

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2022, 10:00:49 PM »
if the coin unit step-up solenoid coil is staying powered, the coin unit won't step and the lights will not advance to the 2nd and 3rd column of payouts.

the unit steps up when the solenoid coil loses power.

if the step-up solenoid loses power correctly after a coin is deposited ... which it must be ... then is the problem that the step-up relay is powering after the handle release relay is reset?

if yes, then your coin switch isn't working properly or you have a short.

check the state of the step -up relay and the coin unit step-up solenoid before you pull the handle.

the sequence is:

1] 1st coin, the coin unit resets.  Coin unit step up relay and step-up solenoid do nothing.  Coin relay and handle release relays trip.

2] second coin depress/release the coin switch, the coin unit step-up relay powers and stays powered

3] coin unit step-up solenoid powers

4] when the plunger pulls in, the coin unit step-up arm switch with yellow and blue/orange wires opens and coin relay loses power

5] coin unit step up solenoid loses power and as the spring pulls the arm and plunger out of the coil, the ratchet turns the wipers

third coin does the same thing starting at [2].

if your coin unit step-up arm switch doesn't work, then the coin relay will stay powered ... which keeps the solenoid powered.  However, unless it's intermittent, you'd see that issue on the second coin and the lights wouldn't advance.

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2022, 08:45:43 AM »
Regarding photo 3, all contacts should be open when the coil is not energized.

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2022, 10:19:41 PM »
Glad to see the site back up again!

I've made considerable progress!

Machine is mostly working.  That is it plays and pays (most times payout=payout+1), but does not take coins when dropped.  I can flip the coin switch and it applies correct credit.  When first coin is deposited,  the scavenger coil energizes and remains energized until spin completion.
Turns out,  t hat I needed to burnish and adjust the connections that DavidLee contented on.
 :thank_you:

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2022, 02:58:30 PM »
WOW! Thank you for the detailed explanation.

I've gotten so much progress thanks to help from you and David Lee. I'm 99% there to a working machine. I'm wrestling with the step up relay now thinking it might be dirty contact on the middle contact. If I adjust the connection ever so slightly it works a few times. Then becomes problematic until I play with it again. I'm going to burnish them and see if it makes a difference. Still wrestling with why the scavenger coil stays energized after coin 1. I guess worse comes to worse,  I can just forget about the scavenger coil and disconnect it.

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2022, 03:11:07 PM »
Regarding step up relay contacts.
They look a little abused. Possibly one of the blades is broken between the insulators.
Also check the wires as in broken under the insulation near the solder joint.

Photos of the scavenger / coin mechanism might be helpful.
Could be a small mechanical adjustment if the coins are not registering and or dropping to the tray.

Great that you’re making good progress.

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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2022, 08:13:44 PM »
the scavenger coil is powering when the coin relay trips because your coin unit close-at-top switch is stuck closed ... at least, it looks like it is in your 4th pic in post 32.

when the coin unit has stepped up once, the brass peg should be close to or barely touching the long switch blades, but should not be changing the switch state.  At reset and step 1, the switch with the white/black and yellow/red wires should be open and the rightmost switch in the stack should be closed.

when the unit steps again on for the 3rd coin, then the brass peg pushes the long blades enough to change the switch state.

when adjusting the relay switches, make sure the long blade deflects the short blade visibly after the contacts touch.  That "overtravel" causes the contacts to slide across each other a little which helps create a good connection. 


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Re: Fuse questions
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2022, 08:56:50 AM »
These two photos might help.
First photo.

Second photo on page 3.

 

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