New Life Games LLC
**Video Poker, Keno, Slots, 21** Gaming machines => IGT AVP (Including G20,G23) => Topic started by: sccarlso on February 12, 2024, 02:32:25 PM
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For the "Family 20" experienced. :)
I currently have a G23 SMLD with a 660 box, works great! But I'm considering giving family 20 a try.
I didn't find a FAQ or anything on going from 14 to 20.
The upside of course is more detailed games. I'm not overly concerned with going back and forth between fam14 and 20. But a few questions I haven't found clear answers for.
1. Is there anything deeper involved other than switching to fam 20 show boots, full wipe of NVRAM, SafeStorage, and SSD, and reloading with a Fam20 OS & Fam20 games?
2. If I did want to switch back to fam14, is it the same process? Replace boots, full wipe, reload (or replace SSD with a fam 14 loaded one?) Or is it more involved?
3. Are there certain Fam20 game titles that require different or added hardware other than what my machine currently has? Other than if the title requires physical reels or a UC/IPC?
I saw there were posts on a few issues with the BV and printers, but those should be fixable.
If you know all about a fam20 setup, or have switched your machine from a fam14 to a fam20 setup. Your thoughts and experiences are valuable info!
Thanks!
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1. You are pretty spot on except you need the Ascent foundation in addition to the OS as well as an Ascent diagnostic.
2. All good. Use Family 14 diagnostic for this. Ekey000007 works for either.
3. Yes certain games will require a dynamic player panel for full function. 009 games are for Crystal curve and will not work on dual screen
machines. There will be trial and error situations with some games but it's easy to remove a problem game with the diag without losing
the previous setup. It won't disable all games like Family 14 does.
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I'd probably just switch brainboxes as I have an extra one.
Have the other files mentioned, so should be good there too.
Not fun swapping a boot1 chip, have to be careful! So with one box a fam20, then all good. Sounds like I won't blow anything out. And easier by using another 660 box, and reverting if desired is easier by just clearing and putting the fam14 brainbox back in.
Many thanks!!! It's something I'll have to try out on a cold rainy weekend!
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Ive never ran family 20 on G23 but others have. Some have reported game play lag & sound issues. I was going to go the G23 route then saw that others were switching back to 14. I opted to get crystal dual machine. No regrets at all. This way I have both 14 and 20. There are some games on 14 I want to be able to play. That being said, I do play both machines all the time. However the crystal gets most of my attention.
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If your printer is usb, and your bv is usb (id 028 for jcm), then they should work fine. I'd 024 won't work as it uses netplex serial. Note : Gen2 universal printers need the proper usb version of firmware to function through usb.
To me these aren't really an issue. A crystal sure would be nice though.
Thanks,
Wayne
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I know my printer is USB.
Have to check if the BV is too.
If the BV isn’t USB, what’s the easiest fix for a fam20?
Does it reject all? Or just bills as I use a Tito.
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Just checked. Pretty funny!
My std screen machine has a USB printer but not the BV. My SMLD machine has a USB BV, but the ticket printer is Netplex connected. But it's a gen2 universal printer with USB as well.
I also have a spare USB printer that will work in either machine. So shouldn't be a prob to set the SMLD to use USB for the printer. And if that caused any hassle, I could just swap the spare USB printer into it.
Didn't want to deal with the BV though! lol Just did a quick look and didn't note the exact model number. I'll have to check the BV model number on my std machine that's USB as they look the same in each machine at a glance, if they're the same model number, it should have USB as well on the other and it's just connected with Netplex currently.
Thanks!
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Gen2U printers communcation is determined by the firmware flashed on it. Print a test ticket and it will show. Attached is one with usb firmware. Similar for bill validators. A UBA14 can be either 024 or o28 protocol (and others), 024 is serial netplex, 028 is usb.
Thanks,
Wayne
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I'll compare what a test ticket prints on mine. My other two are Ithica 950s with both netplex/usb.
They had some generic firmware when I got them. But I flashed them both with IGT USB firmware & tested them with my machines.
But would be nice to not have to swap one of em! :) At least it's relatively easy to swap compared to other components!
USB makes things so much easier! Thanks for the pic!
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One more likely trivial question. :)
I'm assuming that the gameID naming scheme in fam20 is the same as fam14? 001-005, with the 009's being Crystal Curve titles?
Don't want the fun of misloading! lol
Thanks!
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I went through it all…all of it. RobinAK is correct. If you want smooth audio and video, FAM14 will give you that in your G23. If you want FAM20, go with a Crystal Core. Choppy sound and video make me insane, so I stick to FAM14 in my G23.
Thanks,
Jason
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One more likely trivial question. :)
I'm assuming that the gameID naming scheme in fam20 is the same as fam14? 001-005, with the 009's being Crystal Curve titles?
Don't want the fun of misloading! lol
Thanks!
Yes the naming conventions are pretty much the same.
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Hmmm, loading a fam20 to a clean SSD is a little trickier than a fam14....
But I have a clean 660 brainbox, blank SSD, and the fam20 boots are in. I cleared NVRAM and SafeStorage before removing my 014 brainbox.
Both my printer and BV are USB! Yay
Machine boots ok, but I'm not clear on the OS load process.
The first thing that's stopping me is that a fam14 diag key won't work here. lol I got "no bootable devices found".
But I did have a .vhd file for DIAGUNV00122 that I had from way back. Never needed it, might be in a pile of flash drives, but can't find it now.
Does it need to be a specific brand of flash drive? By the image size it's an 8GB flash drive.
Assuming I can boot with the restored USB flash drive... I'm assuming I would do the same as with a 014 and do a triple wipe, and reboot with the OS loader and ekey7 in to load the OS as well as the Ascent loader file.
There aren't any youtube vids that I'm aware of on loading from scratch on a fam20 as far as I know, just fam14's.
But I know I need the OS, and Ascent files. But I'm not familiar with the naming structure of fam20 loaders. I read that you can load the OS, and then the Ascent files afterwards.
But if I can load both at the same time from the same usb, that's easier!
For example, I have a set of fam20 loader files. The "newest" OS I have is OI0200200603, but I also have smaller ones ending in 508 and 404. I little more than 2GB for 404, 5GB for 508, and 6.5GB for 603. For the Ascent loader, the newest I have is AI020000L0003. As with any OS loader files, the newer the version the larger they get. But not as much on the Ascent files as the fam20 OS loaders.
Following basic AVP loading. Can these both be on the same flash drive, then boot with the ekey in, along with a clean fat32 formatted usb with both the OI0200200603 and AI020000L0003 files on usb to load the OS and Ascent files? Or do I need to put OI0200200603 on a flash by itself to install the OS, and then put AI020000L0003 on a flash by itself and load that once the OS is loaded?
Also since I have different series of OS loaders for fam20, do I need to remain on a lower version OS or Ascent file since it's a G23 and not just load the latest?
Any example of loader name ID's and sequence of loading would be really helpful! Or if I'm missing anything critical about the process that will stop me cold. :)
One of those things where it's easy after you've done it once. But the first time, without a guide of some kind, it's kinda sketchy! Or if I'm just blind and there is some kind of guide to loading a fam20 from blank, please point me as I wasn't able to find anything fam20 specific. Just general AVP fam14 information.
Thanks for any advice!
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Ha, well found "most" of the info I was looking for in an old post.
You will need:
* 3.0ME brainbox ( i.e. 660- 4 GB memory, SSD, E4690 Dual DVI video card)
* DIAGUNV00104 diagnostic utility or higher (blue Kangaroo drive)
* IBRF300USDM07 or higher boot chips 1 and 2
* OI020- Operation system (i.e OI0200000302 or higher)
* AI020- Ascent Foundation ( i.e AI020000C0006 or higher)
* GI020- Game program ( i.e GI020002NI3B001)
* Trusty Ekey 7
* GI020 compatible license dongle
* Patience
So I guess that just leaves me with the OS and Ascent versions. If they can be loaded at the same time, and the best OS version.
Since it's not an AVP 4.0. And there are OSs that are older, at 1.7GB, then a major rev and it's 4GB, and then 6.5GB.
I'm thinking that I shouldn't load the latest that is 6.5GB, but not the oldest either, and go with the OS that's about 4GB as I'm thinking the smaller OS might not bog it down as much as the larger ones.
Any OS version someone might recommend over the other when on a 3.0 brainbox?
Thanks!
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I am who originally found the 3.0 show boots for family 20. I run family 20 on my 660 in a trimline and have not experienced the sound and video lagging issues people talk about. There are a lot if games that i cant run being on a trimline but games like farmers daughter, zillion gators and ocean magic have ran fine for me with no issues
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Good info. My fam14 runs pretty well. I got a big box of usb loaders when I bought my first AVP with OSs, games, etc. The guy I got the machine from gave me a package deal & said “have fun”, and haven’t heard from him since, lol But it was a bargain for someone with their first AVP not knowing all they might need.
Most were fam14. But there were some fam20s. Didn’t pay much attention as I wasn’t aware I could even use them on that machine at the time since I only understood fam14 & the ID numbering was completely different.
But I’ve had too many flash drives fail or get lost. Always seems to be the important ones that do!
I always know where my ekey is! But the rest that are used only once get put away.
So I back up everything I can that’s not easily replaced & burn the files to an archive on DVD and stuff it away.
I should have kept a box with “everything AVP” so I’m not hunting for numerous small boxes in the garage! Doh! Tools get lost in there! And I end up buying another when I can’t find it when I need it!
Then the wife makes me clean the garage a year later and I find it! I can’t be the only one that has that experience!
Now that I know basically what is for what, I have this cobbled together mix & match that’s probably incomplete. Mainly fam14 so I wasn’t sure if I had all that I needed to load a working fam20.
Might not be as good with the limited power of a 660, but just want to give it a try.
I’m actually loving the 42” top screen mod for a tall box. 😁 Even rotated I think it’s better than the std G23 top screen. Very eye catching!
So will have to see how it comes out. Worst case, just switch back & might get a crystal curve down the road. Nice machines! But they’re still pretty spendy.
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How do you get power to your USB gen2 universal ?
Ive never used a USB printer before.
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Through the other/serial cable. Connects like a gen2, plus the USB connects.
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Thanks
Will this printer work on Fam 14 games also?
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Yes
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Thanks
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You're welcome
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Well, have to say, a bit of a learning curve using Fam20. But I did get it running! Runs pretty well too!
Fully functional with printer/BV/Tito. Some minor issues have come up, but I've been able to resolve them so far.
After my first try with a few games loaded (and learning setting up dual SSD's, one primary, and one "data" drive).
Wasn't "required", but hey, why not? lol Just needed a somewhat unique cable that was SATA power/data on each end, but both ends are female. So
I could connect the "data" SSD directly to get power from the board for it instead of a PSU power plug.
Also, fam20 being a 64bit OS, I upgraded the RAM on my 660 board to 8GB. Harder to find a pair of 4GB compatible chips since they're older memory chips, but did find them, and now it reports 8GB of RAM installed.
So all running, but on my first try, I had about 8 games, but I have no data on machine requirements for the game titles I have.
Fam20 doesn't seem to do checks when you load games to verify they will run. So I really only found out after
enabling one without a PSR to reference. When you enable games, since it will let you load Crystal Core games on an upgraded G23 with a 660 box, enabling a game is when you find out when flying blind if it will work or not.
They might even run (although slow and laggy). But they will error after you enable it and exit game setup for
it not detecting a touchscreen button panel, a TPP. So it stops there. But doesn't crash the machine or anything.
Just have to go back and disable that game. From what I've found experimenting, not all Crystal Core games "require" a touch button panel.
But something really interesting happened when I loaded the OS/Ascent/Games the first time...
All loaded ok. And I enabled just two titles to test. Worked fine.
But then I enabled a much larger game, almost certainly one that it couldn't handle.
And if I recall, it did throw an error after exiting the enable game menu, just can't recall what error or what exact game it was! So I had to disable it of course.
The surprise was by loading it, and just enabling and disabling that game. It reconfigured my top monitor as if it was a tall box!
So after I disabled it, the two working games still displayed stretched and sideways on the top monitor!
If only I had noted EXACTLY what steps I had done! lol
Instead, I did a full reset, OS/Ascent/Game load as that's what it took to revert the top monitor to normal orientation.
But now I want to back that way dangit! I have my tall box mod on my other machine, and I should have just hooked it up, because since this changed ALL the other games on the machine to the same tall box format on the top screen. I would have liked to have just seen how it looked with an actual tall rotated top screen connected!
I "think" it did this by believing it was a G23 32" "tall" model as in the pic attached here, but it wasn't that title. I haven't been able to find much info on these cabinets as it was replaced with a newer model cabinet. The only "current" one that's similar with a regular screen on the bottom and the tall display above it is the Crystal Curve Ultra.
But regardless, a specific game being loaded, even though it couldn't play on my platform, it did reconfigure the top display to be a tall box, and it stuck that way for all the other games as well. So I'm going to keep trying to figure out what game title did it.
Anyone out there who has messed with a Fam20 setup experience this??? Because I would love to have a tall display on there for all games.
I just can't get the right combination I had done to cause it to reconfigure the top monitor as a tall box.
I'm suspecting that at some point, when you load a tall box game (don't have to actually enable it), even if the platform isn't able to play it for whatever reason. But just by it being loaded, it reconfigured the format of the top display, and it stuck for all games on the machine, and couldn't be switched back without a wipe/reload. Again, stupid me, should have documented exactly what game ID's were loaded at the time!
If I can figure that out, my final mod attempt to try to just "max out" a 660 brainbox without using an AVP 4.0 box is video...
Now ya'll probably will think I'm on crack. lol But I'm going to try it anyway, it isn't expensive and if it works it will be huge. Everyone knows the E4690 card is all you can use for Fam14. But the Fam20 OS/Ascent software was "transitionary". So it loads on a G23 3.0ME brainbox (a 660), as well as Crystal Core machines.
The Fam20 OS has drivers for new video cards for the Crystal Core series in it. Those cards are the Radeon E6760 and the Radeon E9260.
The E6760 is a PCIE 2.1 card, and the E9260 is a PCIE 3.0 card. But...PCIE is backwards compatible. You can plug newer PCIE card into an older slot, you'll
just be limited by the PCIE 2.0 interface speed. But I've read you don't lose so much that it isn't still worth it.
These two newer vid cards for the AVP 4.0 box have 4 and 5 MiniDP ports instead of DVI. But there are adapters for miniDP to VGA, DVI and HDMI. Even EDID foolers if needed. And I was able to acquire each of these cards with IGT labels on them, hate the wait for shipping. So the test is will they actually be recognized and function with a wipe and clean load of the machine when installed? The drivers are in the OS...
If I'm right, and it does detect/configure it with a fresh OS/Ascent load, well that just opens up a lot, even if it can't play a high end Crystal Core based game, the whole system would benefit from either of these much more powerful cards. If I'm wrong, eh, not like I'm out that much, and will just put em on the shelf as I might have a Crystal Core machine down the road.
But for now, just trying to replicate whatever I loaded to cause my top monitor to be reconfigured as a tall box machine.
All comments/suggestions are welcome if you've done anything like this yourself. If I get a better card than the E4690 running in a 660, or just get the fixed tall box config set again, I'll be sure to post about it!
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I had the same issue with the sideways monitor.
What type ram did you use to upgrade to 8 gb?
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Can you remember exactly what you did that caused it to change the upper monitor to display sideways????
I can easily put it back to "normal", but I want to set it back so it displays sideways again to test with a tall monitor but I'm just guessing at which title made it occur after I installed it.
Here's the correct memory. You can get it on ebay but anyone in the US wants a high price for it. Can get it from China for cheap if you're willing to wait two weeks for it to arrive. There are some on Amazon though, I went with that so I could get it faster and it wasn't but $4 more a stick.
4GB DDR2 PC-6400U 800MHz 240 Pin for AMD
It has to be PC-6400U RAM that's only for AMD. Many sellers on Amazon and eBay are selling the same and even have the same pictures. lol
The ones I used:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BWFSJYRR?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BWFSJYRR?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details)
These are exactly the same modules.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QV8T3XJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QV8T3XJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details)
One seller only had 1 module for next day shipping, and another also only had 1 for next day shipping, so I bought one from each seller, same photos, and they were indeed exactly the same. No issues at all. The modules even looked new!
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Upper monitor turns sideways if you have any tall top game installed and it will stay that way unless you do a partial clear doesnt even matter if you don’t enable the game.
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I did a partial like retro said.
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Upper monitor turns sideways if you have any tall top game installed and it will stay that way unless you do a partial clear doesnt even matter if you don’t enable the game.
I thought I had, but I only have PSRs for a few games so I was just guessing. I’ll try with the title from the pic I posted. If that makes it flip, exactly what I needed to know!
Do you know if IGT released a series of titles specifically for a G23 w/32” tall top screens? (I thought I saw they also released a G23 w/ a 42” tall top screen as well), which is what I’d have on my custom mod cabinet.
I’m really interested to see how titles like Dark & Stormy look with a tall screen. I “think” there are a few similar titles where the video reels extend to the top monitor like that. But the only way I can tell is to google for videos of game titles to see the arrangement. I’m not sure what the gaming term is for games with video reels that extend to the top screen.
Appreciate the info!!! Thank you!
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Upper monitor turns sideways if you have any tall top game installed and it will stay that way unless you do a partial clear doesnt even matter if you don’t enable the game.
I thought I had, but I only have PSRs for a few games so I was just guessing. I’ll try with the title from the pic I posted. If that makes it flip, exactly what I needed to know!
Do you know if IGT released a series of titles specifically for a G23 w/32” tall top screens? (I thought I saw they also released a G23 w/ a 42” tall top screen as well), which is what I’d have on my custom mod cabinet.
I’m really interested to see how titles like Dark & Stormy look with a tall screen. I “think” there are a few similar titles where the video reels extend to the top monitor like that. But the only way I can tell is to google for videos of game titles to see the arrangement. I’m not sure what the gaming term is for games with video reels that extend to the top screen.
Appreciate the info!!! Thank you!
Dark & Stormy was one of the main reasons why I wanted to try the conversion a few months ago. It ended up being really choppy in the sound department, and somewhat in the video…I think during a bonus round. I love that game…wish it would have worked out.
Jason
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The sound is noticably better after putting in 8GB of RAM. Still testing a few things though.
I'm going to make that same call though whether to remain on Fam20 or return to Fam14.