CEI Video Poker CRT Problems Convert to LCD

[SF22]

Hey all, I am new to the forum but I have read many posts.  This place is a wealth of knowledge!!!

So, I inherited from my parents an old video poker game I used to play when I was young.  This thing was one of the fun nest things to do, when I had nothing else to do   Anyway when I got it the monitor was bad.  It would work sometime and other times it would not.  So, I started to messing with it and I didn't get too far when finally, it didn't work at all.  I want to fix it, but after I do, I do not see it getting played too much.  My kids are out of the house now and just don't see it happening too often, maybe when the grandkids start coming?

I have messed with arcade games a bit in the past not too much but a little.  a year or so I swapped out an old CRT in a Pac-man game with an LCD it has been working great ever since! The process was fairly simple for me so I thought I might do the same with this machine.  I pulled the CRT out and ordered a CGA to VGA converter board from Amazon.  I made sure it would convert form 15' up.  My understanding is these things are at the 15k. I have received the board and started to play with it but I can't get any picture.  After reading many posts from people doing this conversion on the PE machines and am beginning to think I might need to change some chips on the board, maybe? 

Does anyone have any idea on how this conversion might be done?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

A little background on my machine.  It was made in the mid-80, I think 1985.  It was made my United Coins Machine Co, Cal-Omega or CEI I believe.  It has a Ceronix 1492 CRT in it currently.  It also has a 906 III Gameboard, Rev. I (maybe, can’t read it) Sir. # 005125. It has had a CC40 coin comparator added at some point.  I will try t post some pictures below.

I have contacted Ceronix about a direct replacement, but have not heard back from them yet.

If anyone could help me with this, again it would be most appreciated!!!  Thank you!!!

[Chris-socal]

Ceronix no longer makes or supports CRT monitors. However, a 1492 is very straight forward. Usually a cap kit and or a few other possible components will get it working unless the tube is dead. Based on the images you posted of it working I don’t think the tube burned out, usually a dying tube fades until it is too dark.
There are several shops like KLar who can get that board working, most likely without the tube.
 I have used the converter boards, hit or miss. But a game that uses Ceronix 1492 or RGB monitors usually works fine. If you aren’t getting any image it’s possible the game board has a problem. Good news is that game probably has a 904 board which can also be fixed.
Can you tell us more about the symptoms of the CRT? Is the heater working? Is there static on the screen when powered on? Is there any life at all?

Chris

[SF22]

Chris-social,

Thanks for the reply and all the information you gave!  When I first started the screen would work but at the bottom of the screen it was unreadable, kind of all over the place nothing made sense.  So as I fiddled with it, I got it to work a little better, but only for a short time, it would come and go.  As I said when I got done all I could get was a black screen nothing to display.  I don't know a lot about these CRT's so that is why I was looking to convert to the LCD.

I definitely have the 906 III gameboard.  It is written very clear, the version is not so clear.  I believe the gameboard is working because when the screen was displaying I could see things, buttons worked, etc.  As you can see in the picture, it was working for the most part, the buttons worked, bells and whistles worked.

I think I should move forward with the LCD conversion, if CRT's are so hard to get and they no longer make the straight over conversion.  Does anyone have any information on the swap over?  I am mostly looking for the CGA to VGA wiring side of it, the rest I can figure out one way or the other.  On another post the PE looks like it had some issue with a conversion, I would have to change a chip or something to that affect.  I am hoping I do not need to change a chip with this machine.  Any help would be most appreciated!!!

Thanks again for the help!!!

[Chris-socal]

Shouldn’t need a chip mod with CEI.

For me the challenge was getting the settings right on the converter. First select a low resolution, then scroll through the sync settings until you get an image from the game. You might have to go back to resolution and select larger or smaller, then use monitor settings for vertical/hor position.
One catch, not all LCD monitors behave the same. Look for an early monitor with the fewest bells and whistles. You need a smaller monitor that is closer to square than the newer wide screens. Here are some pics of my conversion.
Lastly, You can use female molex pins directly into the ceronix connector for initial setup. All of the colors should be easy match: R,G,B, BLK,Grey,Yellow. Be sure to avoid the 120v AC pins.
Good luck!

Chris

[SF22]

Quick update,

I believe my new VGA converter board was bad.  I was getting frustrated that nothing was working correct, so I removed it and took it to a Pacman game I converted a while ago.  The board did not work there either.  I am sending it back it was DOA.  I hope when I get the new one things work a lot better. 

Chris-social,

You had mentioned that Ceronix did not make the CRT monitors, which I new this but do they make a LCD conversion?  I was under the impression that they did.  I have reached out to them, I have not heard back from them yet.  Will wait and see, thanks again!!!

[Badbaud]

I'm curious also, the rumor I heard was that Ceronix does not make the smaller LCD monitor replacements any more.

[Chris-socal]

Ceronix stopped making CRT monitors about 15 years ago. I recently reached out to them and they said they don’t have anyone on staff with any knowledge about CRT anymore.
They used to make a smaller format, I think it was called a 1206. It is bigger than a 13 but someone mentioned you can size down the viewable area to use in a 13” space. From what I understand they no longer make anything that small. Maybe something in the range of 20”.
Using a converter or having your board rebuilt is best option. Badbaud, can you rebuild a 1492 board without the customer shipping the tube?

Chris

[Badbaud]

Yes, of course. There is a "helpful PDF" on my website on how to remove and ship a monitor board.

[SF22]

Okay, so I have been working on this thing non stop for the last two days, or so it feels. I got the converter board and I have tried every combo. I can think of, but nothing, seems to be working.  At times I can see faint signs of cards on the display. 

I went to the manual on the Ceronix 1492 CRT and it says it can be either positive or negative sync. Does anyone know what they did with these CEI / Cal-Omega machines?  I keep thinking this is a sync problem?  I have been looking at other converters that are a bit more expensive, but I can’t find anything that says they will help.  I have been searching the web high and low, for any converters, adjustments, wiring help, nothing seems to make any sense or seems to work.

I still would rather invest in this conversion, for now.  I plan on keeping this for a long time and I know I will be doing this again in a few years if I stay with the CRT. 

Any help would be most appreciated!!!

[Chris-socal]

I had a game that I couldn’t get the converter to work, but it used a G19 CRT. It would throw a brief image but it would disappear or fold over. Im pretty sure a game that uses a 1492 should work.

Have you tried reversing the sync wires? Are they yellow and gray or some other combination?
You might also try using just one sync wire. What resolution are you starting with?

Also, does the PS you are using for the converter put out 2A? They can be finicky about having enough power. Maybe post a pic of your connectors so I can compare to my setup.

Lastly, have you tried a different monitor? IMO the older ones work better.

Chris

[SF22]

Chris-socal,

Thanks for the reply, it really helps a lot.  I will answer your questions the best I can.  I have been making progress, I will explain that after answering your questions. 

Yes, I have tried reversing the sync wires, they didn’t change much.  They are yellow and violet coming from the machine, the violet is the vsync and the yellow is the hsync.  Yes, I have also tried just one sync as well. 

Yes, the power supply says 2A, I will try a different one just to see if that helps. 

I have tried a different monitor, both worked about the same.

Okay now for me to try and explain my progress, I have made leaps and bounds and I am getting close!!!  Okay, the first thing that I had to do was take the eight pin that came with my GBS 8200 converter and pop out the grey wire and move it over towards the yellow wire.  This basically gave me a separate hsync and a separate vsync.  Then I had to take the game board out and I knew there was a couple of jumpers on the board that talked about the vpol and hpol.  I removed these jumpers and I believe this changed my sync polarity.  I think from positive to negative, not sure on that.  I then had to combined the violet and yellow coming from the machine to the gray going to the GBS 8200.

With the settings I have above the below picture (somewhat viewable) are what I am left with.  The picture is viewable but it is very jumpy.  I tried to take a video for the forum, it didn't work.  If anyone has any suggestion, I am always open to ideas.  I am getting close, I am going to make this work, never quit!!!!

[Chris-socal]

Thats looking really good. Looks like you resolved the sync issue.
I wonder if there is a refresh rate option.
The only way I know of to share a video is to post it on youtube and post the link.
How old is the monitor? 

Chris

[SF22]

Chris-socal,

I am really close on the sync, yes I think it is something else.  I am in test mode so my connections are just there, very unsecure. I will go back and clean up the connections and see what that does. I will also try the power source like you had mantioned before.

This monitor is new, but the old monitor has the same results.  I will post more when I test a bit more.

Thanks everyone for everything!!!!

[SF22]

Okay, I have cleaned up all the connections.  I have also used a different power source, I am now using 5 volts DC with 3 amps.

I am still having an issue with the screen jumping around or being jerky.  I have posted a video to YouTube in hopes someone can watch it and lead me in a direction to fix the problem.

Here is the link:

[SF22]

Quick update,

I believe I have fixed the jumpy or jerky screen.  For those who might be in the same predicament this is what I did.

After reading many web forums and realizing I might be getting too much power through to the 8200 converter.  I had a couple of resisters on hand from my home alarm system.  I took one and placed it between the gray wire going to the GBS 8200 and the violet and yellow wires coming from the machine.  It took most of the jitters out.  So, I thought I will try two and the magic happened, this thing it pretty solid right now.  Let it sit over night and tried again, still looking good. 

For those who might want to know I believe the resisters I had where 6.8K Ohm, not positive, but pretty sure. 

Anyway, all I have left to do now is secure things in place and mount the monitor.  I might add a separate switch to turn off the bells and whistles.  It is going in a game/theater room where sometimes we want it dark for movies.  So monitor and lights go off while the rest stay on. 

[Chris-socal]

Thats a great piece if information to know. I wonder if there are different voltages on sync lines.