New Life Games LLC
General NLG Chat => Rants and Raves (SEE DESCRIPTION BEFORE ENTERING!) => Topic started by: idesign on June 30, 2017, 08:51:07 AM
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I bought these 2 CF cards from a seller on Ebay. The seller has a habit, most of the time, of not displaying the cards you will receive, only displays the game playing in a machine. So you really don't know what you will receive until you get it. Some people I hear received an empty box from the seller with signature confirmation no less.
Anyway, the INSTALL card label looks legit but the GAME card label is suspect. I think I see at least 4 things wrong with the label, but would like hear from others on what they think it wrong with it.
Thanks
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Let's see:
1. Fonts are not usually what Bally uses.
2. There's no Bally logo in the background.
3. There's absolutely no wear whatsoever on the label.
The 4th one escapes me. :Scratch-Head:
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Let's see:
1. Fonts are not usually what Bally uses.
2. There's no Bally logo in the background.
3. There's absolutely no wear whatsoever on the label.
The 4th one escapes me. :Scratch-Head:
Good start, didn't think of number 3. Here is a pic of the real card to compare it with. The card I received is below it.
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A question, Did that seller claim it to be Original software/cards?.
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A question, Did that seller claim it to be Original software/cards?.
You can't be serious, if he is selling copies isn't that infringement? SG would be on his ass for that, also a violation of ebay policy.
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I am serious. If SG, The feds, or e-bay wan't him-they know where he's at. Since it's Rant's and Rave's here-The thing is -has been for years You people like original software so you can back it up and re-sell it. You know as well as me No cards stay in the alpha 2 brain box but the software does. As far as infringement-They do it every day on there on all the platforms-look at the picks of the software!!!!!!!. Not me--All I got is the real deal.
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Auction says it's BALLY software. Without pictures of the shit he is selling, the expectation is it's original shit. What would you expect to receive?
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That's why I have never dealt with that Jack-Ass or any others. They could go on that e-bay site as far as slots go and rip it a new one if they wanted to with all the fake software on there-Who's to say they won't?. We have seen it before. Be patient grasshopper-They will all get it.
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Well Barry, how about getting back on the original topic and add your thoughts concerning the fake label.
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It's Fake -That's all I can say. They did a good job for the non-average joe to not notice but I have been knowing this about that dude and MANY others. I know there is a vendetta and a case built and still being built against that fella.
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4. Text on the label is portrait instead of landscape.
Nope. That's not it.
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Does the fake one work? If so I'd bet the majority of machine owners don't care. Think about all the Windows computer software that has been copied for decades going back to Windows 3.1 and DOS before that. Microsoft has more resources than Bally ever had, they didn't stop it or even pursue it most of the time unless it was a high-profile seller.
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Yep, All that stuff works. I'm with you on home users. It is what it is. This a rant/rave lynch mob topic for a specific person.
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Does the fake one work? If so I'd bet the majority of machine owners don't care. Think about all the Windows computer software that has been copied for decades going back to Windows 3.1 and DOS before that. Microsoft has more resources than Bally ever had, they didn't stop it or even pursue it most of the time unless it was a high-profile seller.
I don't know if it works, didn't try it. But that's not the point, what would you expect to receive for $150? or even $350 which what he was recently selling this game for before this topic was posted.
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Yep, All that stuff works. I'm with you on home users. It is what it is. This a rant/rave lynch mob topic for a specific person.
How do you know it all works? Some others on here have had issues with the stuff he sells.
The whole point of this topic is to point out to less knowledgeable users what to look for when buying slot software, could be from anyone, not just this seller. I know of at least one person on here that bought a card from another user, who decided to sell the software he bought from him. So this shit eventually is sold by others.
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4. Text on the label is portrait instead of landscape.
Nope. That's not it.
How about the
4. misspelled PLUNDR, or
5. the missing J in J26/27
There are more issues too.
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I am with you. If I'm paying $150 for a non-dongle game, I expect to get an original.
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All I meant by my comment was that there are enough people that buy copied software and don't care if it is orig as long as it works, even at these price levels, so that is why the practice of selling copies continues. For these slot machine games there often aren't enough of the orig cf cards available for sale so people don't have a lot of choices where to buy, that compounds the problem and induces people to buy the copied versions.
I agree that a buyer should be getting an original cf card for that amount paid. But we also know that copied software is always for sale. So if you think it may not be orig, especially if they don't say it is, or if you want to make sure then why not ask the seller first if it is orig. If he refuses to answer or says it is a copy then don't buy it. If he claims it is orig then ebay allows the fake item to be returned since it isn't what the seller said it is and they will force a refund to be given. Nowadays ebay sides with the buyer more often than the seller, everyone selling stuff on ebay knows that. I'm not an ebay fan but their rules favor the buyer most of the time.
If someone takes a genuine Bally produced cf card, copies another Bally game software onto it and relabels it what do you have? Physically it is a genuine Bally cf card and the software on it is digitally an exact duplicate of the Bally game software. Bally copied their master game file to their cf cards all day long at the factory in a similar way. So your copy is no different from a genuine-produced Bally cf card except it wasn't made by Bally at their factory, it was made in somebody's basement. It's the aspect that it isn't a "real" version made by Bally.
I'm not promoting pirating or tricking someone into buying a fake by representing it as an original, but the fake is not inferior to the original from a functioning standpoint. The only downside I can see is if you bought the cf card for purposes of reselling it and by being a copy that hinders the resell. If that's the case then I'd open a complaint on ebay for the transaction, tell ebay the item is not as described and get a refund. If enough buyers would do that maybe the seller would stop, but not likely.
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It's the ethics of the practice I question, not the functionality. I agree with you that technically speaking it is the exact same thing. Just seems wrong to not divulge that it may not be an OEM card, and why would he? He wouldn't be allowed to sell it on e-bay as it is against the rules (although they only get enforced when someone complains about a specific item).
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I understand about the ethics part of it, I've gotten to where I don't expect much of that from ebay unless it is a seller I've dealt with before.
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So the Seller buys 25 or 50 Bally 2 gb cards for $3 each in a fire sale from an electronics recycler on ebay. Removes the original label, and copies a new game to it, then goes out of his way to make a poor label that mimics what that label should look like to fool a potential buyer when they receive the card. Knowing that he has just made a counterfeit card, he purposely does not display the card in his auction so he doesn't get caught doing this, all for a price of $150 or $350 or even $450.
Pretty dishonest in my opinion.
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Well, now it seems that the crook selling counterfeit software has joined as a member of NLG. His user name is BRAVA2016. Buyer beware.
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See I don’t know about you guys but I personally don’t care if it works, I don’t want to BUY non-original software. Now me personally, and some may disagree, but... I do get copies made of original software that I’m only using if the card becomes corrupted. If I sold the OEM copy I would immediately DESTROY the copy. Because to me I only have the right to a game I paid for.
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Well, now it seems that the crook selling counterfeit software has joined as a member of NLG. His user name is BRAVA2016. Buyer beware.
Profile for that user shows that he joined NLG back in Nov 2016. ??
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=profile;u=3213 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=profile;u=3213)
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Well, now it seems that the crook selling counterfeit software has joined as a member of NLG. His user name is BRAVA2016. Buyer beware.
Profile for that user shows that he joined NLG back in Nov 2016. ??
[url]http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=profile;u=3213[/url] ([url]http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=profile;u=3213[/url])
He is a troll, just lurks in the background. Has made 5 posts since joining. Makes no meaningful contribution.
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I think this is a case of buyer beware.....
If you know you are buying a counterfeit and don't care, that's up to you. A $20 Louis Vuitton purse next to the $20 Channel on the beach of Barcelona seems like a deal but there are no real pretenses that these are anything but copies. If you get locked up or fined or for possession of counterfeit or in the case of software, stolen intellectual property, that is the consequences of your actions. Louis V actively persecutes counterfeiters as they believe that copies of their product diminishes its brand value and they are materially harmed as those purchasing a fake will no longer buy their expensive goods. I don't think someone in the market for a $20 fake would ever actually consider buying the real thing but that might just be me. I think this case is easier to make with software as in effect a copy is a clone and the company that owns the intellectual property has been harmed with one less sale. Copyrights also have an expiry because when a company stops manufacturing something, after market is the only place to get some items. Ie Car parts. No one has been harmed if you buy a 3rd party water pump if the original manufacturer isn't making them anymore.
To the comment of buyer beware - you should always ask the question - Is this OEM or a copy. If the seller mis-represents it as original and its not - then they are a scum bag that should be reported.
You also have a bit of recourse with Ebay to say that the item you received is not as advertised. If you are honestly told its a copy go back to my first point.
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I know everything I said seemed quite rhetorical. But, i’m trying to figure out the legality line...If I own a copy of a game I bought legitimately, just in case (accidents do happen you know)...is that breaking the law. My understanding is no, if, I never sell the copy, destroy the copy if I sell the OEM, etc.
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I think you have it right.
Anything you own you are legitimately allowed to make a backup. Including multiple archives.
There was a big to-do about people not being able to copy certain DVDs due to copy protection. Some one created software to descramble it and create a unencrypted copy. The studios took the software guy to court and lost. The crux of the ruling was that they don't have to make it easy for you to copy but they can't stop you from making backups of something you own.
No one here at NLG is trying to be the software police, but we do not want to see or be party to the sharing of copyrighted material. That includes publishing links to places where binaries and such could be found on other sites. What you do on your own systems is your own business.
We created this forum so that home users can share information that they cannot get from the manufacturers or casinos. The intent is to further the enjoyment of the hobby.
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I'm not so sure about this,,,
The software agreement or license depends on the company that creates the software. Slot machine software was not created for the home market or individual owners like us. It was made for a casino business to use in specific slot machines made by the same company that creates the software. So I doubt that they permitted the casino to make backup copies. Even if a casino did make a backup copy of the software I don't thing think the gaming regulators would allow them to use "backup" software, things like that are tightly controlled.
On used machines that become privately owned by hobbyists you still can't assume copying rights of the software since that right was never permitted by the copyright holder, and it's their decision since it's their property.
The question was about the legit ability & right to make copies for personal backup use, I don't think it exists on slot machine software. With other software such as computer software or music I think you can make a case for doing that. But slot machines were never designed for a private home to be used as a game or arcade machine like an x-box or Commodore 64. Just because you buy the machine I don't think that conveys a right to copy the software in it. Nowadays nearly all software is sold with the rights to use it, and not the rights of ownership. Do a google search for EULA to see more about this.
Something for the lawyers to sort out.
In the real world I doubt that IGT is going to knock on your door for making copies of their software, unless you get bigtime into selling it on a large scale. It is the making of copies AND selling them that leads to trouble. You know it probably happens overseas all the time, as people upgrade, convert and repair old slot machines still in use.
-edit to fix typo-
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Kinda comes down to the same dance as owning a slot machine. Use common sense, and manage/protect your private environment/investments the best way that makes sense to you.
Jason
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Since this topic seems to have morphed into a discussion about copyright infringement in general, below is a link to a law suite in AZ concerning selling copies of WMS games. Since SG now owns WMS and Bally, I presume they take the same dim view on selling copies of their intellectual property.
https://www.law360.com/articles/471270/slots-dealer-pays-3m-to-settle-casino-game-copyright-suit (https://www.law360.com/articles/471270/slots-dealer-pays-3m-to-settle-casino-game-copyright-suit)
Oh, and the 2 individuals that got nailed were once members of New Life Games.
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I'm not so sure about this,,,
The software agreement or license depends on the company that creates the software. Slot machine software was not created for the home market or individual owners like us. It was made for a casino business to use in specific slot machines made by the same company that creates the software. So I doubt that they permitted the casino to make backup copies. Even if a casino did make a backup copy of the software I don't thing think the gaming regulators would allow them to use "backup" software, things like that are tightly controlled.
On used machines that become privately owned by hobbyists you still can't assume copying rights of the software since that right was never permitted by the copyright holder, and it's their decision since it's their property.
The question was about the legit ability & right to make copies for personal backup use, I don't think it exists on slot machine software. With other software such as computer software or music I think you can make a case for doing that. But slot machines were never designed for a private home to be used as a game or arcade machine like an x-box or Commodore 64. Just because you buy the machine I don't think that conveys a right to copy the software in it. Nowadays nearly all software is sold with the rights to use it, and not the rights of ownership. Do a google search for EULA to see more about this.
Something for the lawyers to sort out.
In the real world I doubt that IGT is going to knock on your door for making copies of their software, unless you get bigtime into selling it on a large scale. It is the making of copies AND selling them that leads to trouble. You know it probably happens overseas all the time, as people upgrade, convert and repair old slot machines still in use.
-edit to fix typo-
This... is exactly why I asked I certainly don’t WANT to read through WMS’s EULA but I would if I could find it. My point is in general the legality is a sort of grey area and I wanted others interpretations. All though I will say WMS in particular will sell you a brand new machine for home use so I know they would probably take this into account when writing the EULA.
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Ruby, That's the first I ever heard of that wms selling machines to home users--They are all SG now anyway. I suppose if you have a good account with casino connections that may be possible if one wanted to pay that high price--I mean high. Don't jive with me. Also they track Everything machine wise. Perhaps you can tell me something I do not know?.
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After giving this topic some thought-Just got of the shower and thought about it. Jeff is not wrong by any means in His original post and topic about what He stated. I am Quite sure that people are looking into Him(general) and others. A copied anything by the way leaves a signature and a date-Just have to be able to see/find it-It's there in all of them. I have copies here for MY own use and use them for myself and do not sell, exploit others with that. That's called doing the correct thing. Greedy people exploit, infringe and lie to make money--I would like to think they have what's coming to them. Software- Here's what I DO know.
Most of this is all leased/licensed software. Do you think the casino owns it? 9/10--NO. The machines are removed and the software at that time and slated to be Re-Located or shipped back to headquarters. The Manufacturer CANNOT re sell the software as it's in the software where it came from and was sold. This is why software is to be destroyed. There are also Recended versions that have slight bugs in them that were fixed and upgraded. Most ALL of the things you see that "are to good to be true" Are STOLEN. That's a FACT. Lot's more to say about all this but put that in your pipe and smoke it. B.
***As A note It is these type people/folks that completely Ruins everything. I like to do things the right way and be Legit. You last longer that way. Greed will always be your downfall. There are NOT many Legit folks in all this---BUT some!.
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This topic has run its course.