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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: sudsy7 on February 15, 2015, 12:48:51 PM
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I have an E-2000 fruit machine that had only a bell for sound when I got it. It had an oddball non-Bally program chip (107085). I wanted to convert it to sound for the longest time, but the original chip didn't support sound, and I couldn't find a program to match the payout glass. So I had almost given up hope when a nice guy named John Spina contacted me out of the blue one day and was able to furnish me with the program (583784) and sound chip to make it work. I had to make a custom #1 reel strip for it, but other than that it works perfect, except for one thing. The "Insert Coin" lamp does not light up at any time. I thought maybe the transistor (Q9) was blown, but when I do the #2 test, the lamp lights up. So, next I thought maybe whoever made this custom program may have mapped that lamp function to another "unused" transistor, but I have checked all others and that is not the case. It appears that for some reason, the "Insert Coin" lamp function was left out of the program.
Anyway, seems odd to me, and I don't see how I can fix it, but I'm just curious if anyone else has ever run across something like this before?
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Is there a solenoid on the coin comparitor or something that's only active when the game is ready to accept coins that you could tie that light wiring into?
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Is there a solenoid on the coin comparitor or something that's only active when the game is ready to accept coins that you could tie that light wiring into?
I currently just have the Triac tab jumpered to ground so the light is on all the time - I thought that was better than off all the time. The light really should be off when you put the 5 coin max in or while the reels are turning or during payouts. I suppose I could add some hardware to accomplish that logic. It would have been so much easier for the programmer to use the software to do it though - that's what I don't understand.
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That's what I was getting at. Isn't there a diverter solenoid that is only active when coins can be inserted? That would turn the light on and off at the correct times
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No, pretty sure the diverter solenoid is on continuously after the first play. Components that go on/off simultaneously on these machines are driven from the same triac.
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Gotcha, don't know a whole lot about those machines so it was just a thought...
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Thanks, I appreciate your response, cowboygames. I was just thinking, wouldn't it be nice to be able to decompile old programs like this in order to make simple changes for oversights like this one? Probably next to impossible to do it though I would imagine.
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The way those programs are encrypted, I'm more than a little surprised someone was able to hack it well enough to write their own program at all
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the 107085 program is a bally game chip for a e1243-1 using strips m239-289,290,291 a 5 line without sound The 583784 is for an e2272-41 uses different strips but has sound. The p1 should not effect the insert coin light - put your original 107085 to prove that.
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I was always under the impression that the "Insert Coin" lamp doubles as a CPU-ready feature. Works differently than the Tilt lamp, but that's the indicator that the machine will play.
The fact that the lamp doesn't light during normal play but yet the game plays, tells me there might be a problem in the IO board logic, behind that TRIAC that triggers the light.
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the 107085 program is a bally game chip for a e1243-1 using strips m239-289,290,291 a 5 line without sound The 583784 is for an e2272-41 uses different strips but has sound. The p1 should not effect the insert coin light - put your original 107085 to prove that.
A couple of years ago when I was trying to convert to sound, Foxxslots looked up the 107085 and told me not it was not a valid Bally program - probably a rewrite of some type he told me. The strips for this machine are M231-187 for Reel 2 and M231-188 for Reel 3. Reel 1 was originally M231-186 for the 107085 chip, but when I plugged the 583785 chip in, I had to customize the last half of it because there is a variance in the plums, bells and cherry positions.
The 107085 chip always did work with respect to the "Insert Coin" light, but the problem is that it doesn't support sound. I did not change the I/O board. Just added the required daughterboard to it for the sound upgrade,
I thought the P1 chip contains the code that controls lights, etc., so I don't understand when you say P1 chip won't affect the insert coin light.
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I was always under the impression that the "Insert Coin" lamp doubles as a CPU-ready feature. Works differently than the Tilt lamp, but that's the indicator that the machine will play.
The fact that the lamp doesn't light during normal play but yet the game plays, tells me there might be a problem in the IO board logic, behind that TRIAC that triggers the light.
The same I/O board will trigger the Insert lamp with the old P1 chip, but not with the new P1 chip, so that tells me that there is nothing wrong with the I/O board. Also, even with the new P1 chip, the insert coin light will come on during a #2 test.
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Maybe DHellis will step in, but I'm thinking maybe the lamp and solenoid test is initiated thru a separate logic circuit in the IO than the logic from the CPU for normal game play. Not sure though.
I find it very odd that the lamp won't light with that P1. Now you have me wondering. I know I have that same P1 in at least one of my machines, and don't believe I've ever had an issue with the INSERT COIN light not lighting.
And I'm pretty sure ALL E-series machines use the same IO circuit for that function.
Is it possible the former owner re-wired your machine?
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Interesting thought about the re-wire. It's possible, but because the #2 test gets the lamp on I would tend to believe that it's wired correctly. Is it possible that the 583784 chip/program I have is corrupt? Or is possible that the P2, M1, M2, and M3 chips I have are not the correct ones? Here is what I have in my machine:
P2: 003701
M1: E-755-80
M2: E-755-47
M3: E-755-133
Would you mind checking your machine (with the 583784 chip) and see how they compare to mine?
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My M3 is E755-102, so that may be the problem. I think you may have found the problem...
Here's a link to the binaries which you can download. I would suggest downloading the -102 and burn a blank 2716 for the occasion. Otherwise, M1, M2 and P2 are all identical:
http://www.ramegoom.com/john/E2272-41/ (http://www.ramegoom.com/john/E2272-41/)
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My M3 is E755-102, so that may be the problem. I think you may have found the problem...
Here's a link to the binaries which you can download. I would suggest downloading the -102 and burn a blank 2716 for the occasion. Otherwise, M1, M2 and P2 are all identical:
ramegoom - that is awesome! I can't wait to try it. I will have to dig up my burner (haven't used it for ages - not even sure where it's at right now), and I probably won't get a chance to do it until the weekend, but I will report back with the results. I'll also compare the checksums for the other chips to see that they are exactly like yours. You have renewed my hope of getting this machine back to 100% operational - Thank you!
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I would send you the programmed chip, but I'm in Mexico right now, won't be back to the US until Thursday.
If you can't find a 2716, use a 2732 and put the program in it twice, stacked one after the other. Pretty sure that will work.
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I'm sure I have blank 2716 chips around here, and besides, I want to refresh my memory on the chip burning process anyway. Thanks for the offer though. :thank_you:
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the M3-133 is a replacement for the 102 - ""modified to reduce 9x tilts" per bally
When you play the game with the door closed does the insert coin work AFTER the first handle pull?
Did it work with the original P1? Does it work with now with the original P1?
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the M3-133 is a replacement for the 102 - ""modified to reduce 9x tilts" per bally
When you play the game with the door closed does the insert coin work AFTER the first handle pull?
Did it work with the original P1? Does it work with now with the original P1?
The insert coin lamp does not work at all at anytime with the new P1. Doesn't matter if first pull or 100th pull, door open or closed. The only time it works with the new P1 is during the #2 test or if you ground the tab of the Q9 triac.
Yes it worked fine with the original P1.
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If there is even one byte of data missing or wrong on any of the program chips, the CPU will set an error code, so I don't think the P1 would have corrupt data, as long as the game plays.
No idea why it's doing that. I hope someday someone here on the list can contribute "hacking" data that can allow us to modify the RNG, or limit it somewhat so our home machines will win with better odds. Or, add a few bells and cherries to the strips and have the program recognize them, upping the payout odds.
Gotta be some retired Bally software guys here...
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Well, I replaced the -133 chip with the -102 chip and the result was no change (insert coin lamp still does not work).
Ramegoom - when you get back to town, can you double-check that your Insert Coin light works on your machines with the 583784 installed? I could be wrong, but everything I've tried points to that chip not being programmed correctly.
If anyone else happens to have a machine that uses the 583784 chip, please let me know if your Insert Coin light works as well.
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OK, the machine that has this chip in it is a 5 line 3 coin machine, and I only have one like it. Went to turn it on, and a bank of resistors on the IO board went up in smoke...so I need to find the problem before it happens again. I believe I did have the coin-in light but now I can't be sure.
I'll let you know.
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No there is a lockout coil on the comp. it is energized when a coin is accepted and de-energized when max bet is reached so yea maybe that would work.
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oh yea after the first coin passes the abc optic it is then energized so idle there is no power to coil on cc. so no insert coin in idle state.
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oh yea after the first coin passes the abc optic it is then energized so idle there is no power to coil on cc. so no insert coin in idle state.
You lost me. Are we talking about a Series E here? I don't have an electronic coin comparator or anything like that - just a simple coin mech that has a NO/NC Cherry switch with a wireform arm that actuates the switch as it passes by on it's way to the hopper. :Scratch-Head:
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My machine has an AS-2980-5600 I/O board. I notice there is also an AS-2980-5500 I/O board for these machines as well. I wonder if that would make any difference. Anyone know what is different between them?
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My machine has an AS-2980-5600 I/O board. I notice there is also an AS-2980-5500 I/O board for these machines as well. I wonder if that would make any difference. Anyone know what is different between them?
I have seen a number of boards marked AS2980-5500 and a number marked AS2980-5600, the circuit board is
electrically the same. All but one of these boards looked exactly like the other which really means that those
that say -5500 are really 5600 unless you notice that these components are missing.
R1A thru R6A
R13A thru R18A
R16A thru R31A
C1 thru C6
C13 thru C19
C16 thru C31
The true 5500 board will not have the LM555 (U18) timer and the decoder proms U10 and U15 use
part numbers E751-24 and E751-25 (the 5600 board uses E751-4 in both sockets)
The 5500 is really intended to be an additional IO board when a machine needs more ports than provided
by the 5600.
So says the FO-650-25 manual for the K661 tester.
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Is this the difference between I/O boards? I was talking with another NLG member about I/O and this is what they were described as- "I/o enhanced boards (board that amplifies or duplicates output for sound board." Or am I on the wrong track and this is reference to the small piggyback board plugged into the I/O for sound ribbon cable connection? Is there two different I/O 's one for example E1000 and enhanced I/O for E2000 with sound ?
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Is this the difference between I/O boards? I was talking with another NLG member about I/O and this is what they were described as- "I/o enhanced boards (board that amplifies or duplicates output for sound board." Or am I on the wrong track and this is reference to the small piggyback board plugged into the I/O for sound ribbon cable connection? Is there two different I/O 's one for example E1000 and enhanced I/O for E2000 with sound ?
The differences that I described are what is stated in the tester manual. I don't know that it is enhanced I/O or not
and I have really only seen one. Normally what I see when someone has a sound card is a very small board on
the other 16 pin socket. That small board provides additional buffering.
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Would anyone have any Bally literature to see if there are any other program chips beside the 583784, that would work on a 5 line pay with reels M231-186, -187, and -188?
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Unbelievable!!! The machine was getting susceptible to power flucuations (when the central air conditioner would turn on, I noticed the machine would reset itself). So I put in a brand new power supply board, which not only cured the reset issue, but now the insert coin lamp works like it should, too! I don't see how replacement of the power supply could relate to the insert coin lamp, but I'm not going to argue with the result. Thanks to all who helped me on this issue!
:thank_you:
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:-)