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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: The Fatman on May 02, 2016, 07:42:28 PM
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All I have repaired are the EM machines so I thought I would try my hand at a E machine. All the boards are present and fuses are right and good. I am not getting anything in the display window., The buttons on the hopper are doing nothing. Besides checking voltages on the boards and power supply board, what would be the best way to approach this machine? I do have a Liberty Belle service manual for the series E machines 1980 to 1986. I will read it deeper than I have already.
Thanks in advance ...
Dave F
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Can you post a picture of the front of the machine as well as one of the inside, mpu area?
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All I have repaired are the EM machines so I thought I would try my hand at a E machine. All the boards are present and fuses are right and good. I am not getting anything in the display window., The buttons on the hopper are doing nothing. Besides checking voltages on the boards and power supply board, what would be the best way to approach this machine? I do have a Liberty Belle service manual for the series E machines 1980 to 1986. I will read it deeper than I have already.
Thanks in advance ...
Dave F
Dave, I always start by checking the power cords condition. They get pinched and cut from running thru the hole in the bottom of the machine.. Next check the fuses and condition of the fuse holders, these fuse holders get brittle and crack and break.. Next check the plug on the power supply, look for any dark brown spots on the white molex plug.. They power supply have 3 voltages to check, 5V, 7.5V, and a 10V loop, very easy to check if you own a voltage meter.. If this is a E-1224, your MPU should have a small Ram board with a battery on it.. You can try removing it and checking the condition of the pin header connectors. The battery acid tends to turn those connections green, or destroy them all together.. It is possible that your display is bad too.. Post us some pictures of your machine and hopefully this helps you get it going..
Gary
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OK .... will be later tonight before I can do it... Thanks you guys for jumping in.
Dave F
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Here they are ... I do see what might be a toasted bridge on the power supply board. Also in the hopper area, i red circled to items that are circular. Dont have a clue what they were used for. I also circled the bridge I feel is bad. Can I check voltages on the boards when the reel bundle is out along with the hopper. I do know, not to unplug them while the machine is on. I have replaced the MPU battery with a 3.6 Lithium if that will work. Anyway ... here are the pics....
Dave F
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On the power supply are 3 main voltages you can check. There is a horizontal row of test points, they look like small metal loops of wire. They are numbered from left to right, TP1 thru TP4.
The meter black (ground) lead gets connected to the power supply terminal marked "GND", which is also called TP3.
TP1 is marked "+5" and it should measure 5 volts DC.
TP2 is marked "ZC" and it should measure about 7.5 volts DC. (ZC stands for zero crossing, it is used on the mpu board)
TP4 is marked "+UR" and it should measure 9.5 to 10 volts DC. (UR stands for UnRegulated)
The UR voltage and +5 voltage are used on various circuit boards in the machine, such as mpu, I/O, etc. That huge capacitor at the top of the power supply board is C1, it is the filter and storage capacitor for the UR 10 volts DC. The power supply gets 9.5 volts AC from one of the secondary windings on the main power transformer, then makes the 5 vdc, 7.5 vdc and 9.5-10 vdc.
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I think this is the manual for your machine, it has a lot of good info. From what I've read the mpu board in an E-1000 machine can be either an E-1000 mpu or an E-2000 mpu, both will work ok. It looks like your mpu is an E-1000 mpu.
The daughter board attached to the mpu board with the long white battery is where the cmos ram is located. The hopper circuit board has 115 volts AC on it, be careful. The hopper board has the machine's "Test" switch and "Reset" switch, both are pushbutton switches, their use is covered in the manual.
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Dave, those two small boards under the power supply are not factory, and is also but they are not needed. Must have been for something in the casino. I'd see if I could follow there wires to see if they are even hooked up. Your bridge rectifier looks normal, the brown on the board is from just how hot they get.. Someone has changed the large silver cap on that power supply, I've never seen one that large used before. The battery on the MPU is not needed to make these Bally E1000 or E2000 machines to operate. They were used to retain the book keeping memory only and they will run without a battery. These machine how ever are meant to use the Ni-Cad rechargeable battery's. if you install a lithium battery you need to replace the resistor R1 with a diode as to not allow the battery to be charged.
That machines very clean, the fans are usually caked in dust. Try unplugging and connection that 20 pin power supply plug a time or two and see what it does. Those pins tarnish and loose there connection. You can check your power supply's voltages without hopper or reels, you just don't get a test under load. For the machine show any life? Florescent bulbs, fan
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Thanks guys ... Will replace the batter with the correct one but will take it out for the time being. Also the Manual is the one I have... very helpful. I will take voltage readings and let you know. I do have nothing in the display window but have seen a flash of # when the reset on the hopper was pressed.
Keep yall informed as to the progress.
Dave F
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The other repair threads here on NLG for the E-series machines have a lot of good info in them.
The eproms that are in sockets on the mpu board can loosen over time and start to creep up out of the socket due to heating & cooling cycles, plus machine vibration when running. You can try pressing down on each eprom firmly to reseat it to make sure they are in the socket fully. Some say they sometimes remove the eproms and clean the little legs with a pencil eraser to fix a bad connection, they get tarnished over the years, but you have to be careful if doing this. The leg can bend and then break off when you straighten it. The socket contacts can get the same tarnish problem, the only real way to fix that is replace the socket and that's a lot of soldering, best for an experienced tech if that is needed.
The gray ribbon cables that go from the mpu board to the other circuit boards have small pins that insert into the sockets where they plug in. These pins are short so they sometimes are intermittent if not plugged in fully. Be careful to not bend them over, it happens.
I think there is a member here that is familiar with repairs to the E-1000/E-2000 machines, especially the mpu boards. If you can't get it going you may want to send him your mpu board. But first I'd make sure the power supply voltages are ok, all fuses and fuse caps good, disconnect and then reconnect cable connectors in case one of them isn't making good contact, all the usual stuff.
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Dave, on these machines, very important to have all the voltages present for the machine to operate. to check and see if the piggy back (ram board) board is intermittent, I usually place a piece of cardboard behind the mpu board , that forms a non electric shield between the sidewall of the cabinet and the mpu board, now you can push on the mpu board and wiggle the ram board around and see if the display will come up, if it does then you have found your problem, now all you have to do is isolate where the intermittent connection is.
Hope this helps
Jim
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OK .... getting started now. I have taken out the lithium battery I had installed. I will replace it with the Ni-Cad battery when I get one. Glad to know it will function without it unlike the IGT S+ and newer machines. I will keep you all informed of my progress and questions.
I did see that the large cap on the power supply looks like the old cans that were used on the old Bally Pinballs driver boards (70's) I have a 12000MF radial lead 25Volt that I replaced on an old one with. I should be able to strap it down or actually solder it into where the wire leads from the old type cap went to. Will have to look to make sure it would hit the back of the hopper. Only looks to 2" or less in height.
Also ... I have a good deal of board level work, like changing the 40 pin PIA sockets and the CMOS socket ect ect on the pinballs so I am not afraid to do that work if needed. I see no corrosion at all around where the old battery was. Plus all the boards except the heat damage from the bridge on the PS board, all look to be in real clean and good shape. I really feel it will be a PS board issue. When I pull the PS board, I will check for an open short on the bridge as well as change the cap.
All connectors look fine and not burned or even browned on the power pins.
Anyway ..... We will keep plugging away.... Thanks again
Dave F
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Dave, on these machines, very important to have all the voltages present for the machine to operate. to check and see if the piggy back (ram board) board is intermittent, I usually place a piece of cardboard behind the mpu board , that forms a non electric shield between the sidewall of the cabinet and the mpu board, now you can push on the mpu board and wiggle the ram board around and see if the display will come up, if it does then you have found your problem, now all you have to do is isolate where the intermittent connection is.
Hope this helps
Jim
:agreepost: :agreepost: :agreepost: :agreepost: :agreepost: :agreepost: :agreepost: :agreepost: :agreepost: :agreepost:
Re-read this post and check the connector between the MPU and the RAM board
Those connectors break all the time and result in exactly what you are seeing with your machine
BTW if you pull the RAM board off the pins, it's still hard to see the broken contact on the RAM board. You will need a good light and magnifier.
Or check continuity with the RAM board installed after removing the MPU board from the machine for easier access.
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Thanks .... but that wont explain the missing voltages on the PS board would it? I am going to pull the fuse panel and check each fuse holder. I am getting the fan and the fluorescent lamps to light along with the single coin line lamp lit. But those are all GI lamps and the high voltage tube lamps. Anyway .... progress..... a little at a time is still progress.
Dave F
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Jim .... thanks for
"BTW if you pull the RAM board off the pins, it's still hard to see the broken contact on the RAM board. You will need a good light and magnifier.Or check continuity with the RAM board installed after removing the MPU board from the machine for easier access."
I do see a pin already questionable but before I go that far, should I get the voltages present first on the PS board?
Either way .... thanks so much for this tip. I would probably remove the board and test continuity. I have had too many times with the pinballs with cold solder connections that when I put pressure on the pin, even with lust the test probe, it makes contact and looks good.
Well .... had to change the font size ... too small to read. But since I didnt know that when I posted ... I went and pulled the PS board.... Found 2 pins cold solderd so I reflowed all the pins, and now all my PS voltages are present and I now have a 1 in the right digit on the display. So next step is to pull the MPU and check the pins on the ram board since I saw that code means a ram failure .... so thanks one more time and here we go to the next step.
:thank_you: :thank_you: :thank_you:
Dave F
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Jim .... thanks for
"BTW if you pull the RAM board off the pins, it's still hard to see the broken contact on the RAM board. You will need a good light and magnifier.Or check continuity with the RAM board installed after removing the MPU board from the machine for easier access."
I do see a pin already questionable but before I go that far, should I get the voltages present first on the PS board?
Either way .... thanks so much for this tip. I would probably remove the board and test continuity. I have had too many times with the pinballs with cold solder connections that when I put pressure on the pin, even with lust the test probe, it makes contact and looks good.
Well .... had to change the font size ... too small to read. But since I didnt know that when I posted ... I went and pulled the PS board.... Found 2 pins cold solderd so I reflowed all the pins, and now all my PS voltages are present and I now have a 1 in the right digit on the display. So next step is to pull the MPU and check the pins on the ram board since I saw that code means a ram failure .... so thanks one more time and here we go to the next step.
:thank_you: :thank_you: :thank_you:
PS .... do you feel I should pull the hopper board and check for cold solder connections there too?
Dave F
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I've never seen cold solder joint on the PS Boards pins. You have two 5101 ram chips on the battery board. One or both could be bad, but I would try pulling them and cleaning the legs with a pink eraser then reinstalling them. Do the same to the pins connection the ram board to the MPU.
Gary
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Well ... there were 2 pins that I could visually see without magnification, and when I see any conditions like that, I just reflow each pin to make sure. It brought back the voltages to it. Did Not change the big cap and the bridges all checked out ok with no open shorts. I will look for the 2 CMOS chips when I remove the board along with checking the Ram Board pins for connections.
Thanks for the help....
Dave F
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The 5101 ram chip is still available on Ebay for around $5.
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I have a few spares from my old solid state pins. I found 1 broken connector on the ram board and jumperd it, slightly reseated the 2 5101 cips and reinstalled it on the MPU board and back into the machine. Still getting the #1 in the right display ....
I am about done for tonight. I feel that I am making progress but I am tired and after 2am .... heading to bed and will read some more on it in the morning.
See yall then...
Dave F
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Here are what cold solder joints on a power supply board look like:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramegoom.com%2Fjohn%2FE2000%2Fcold_solder_joints.jpg&hash=408ec227e14adf05a804ea9742ac025b993cede2)
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Yup .... mine were not that severe but when I reflowed solder, all my voltages returned. I might need to replace the connectors on the Ram board. Found at least 1 pin broken and jumped it but it didnt get it running. Might need to replace the 5101 chips on it too. Found that Barry F has the connectors for it, but also a local friend might have some.
Dave F
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Well ... I have replaced the Ni-Cad battery and the 2 5101 chips on the Ram board. Still just getting the 1 code in the displays. Starting to scratch my head again.
Dave F
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Going to check the voltages at the MPU and I/O boards. Does anyone know what happens if the power is on, and either the reel bundle or hopper is removed? I know that Bally says not to do this, but I have no idea what has happened to this machine before I got it. I did get a key when I picked it up, so I know someone somewhere and sometime before I got it, has possibly done this.
Dave F
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There are a few of the IC's soldered to the MPU that get hot and cause problems, but I don't remember what ones.. Try sending dhellis a PM.. He repairs these boards and can tell you what ones they are. I did have one machine here over the winter that was a headache. It turned out to be that the connectors in the white plug that goes to the MPU were loose and not making a good connection to the header pins. Once I re-pinned that plug that machine ran perfect.. I made a tool out of an old header pin, so I could check each wires connector separately.. I was shocked just how loose over half of the crimp connectors were.. I have a picture of it some where. I'll post it when I find it.. Its made out of an half of a ball point pen, glued the header pin in the tip..
Gary
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Great idea ... thanks
Dave F
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That tool works on the hopper plug, as well as the one to the IO.. I want to make one out of the smaller header pins, to be able to check the connector plugs going to the IO board.. Takes all the guess work out of whats good and whats not..
Gary
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I cant express the thanks and gratitude to the members that devote their time to helping others on this site. We are a small bunch compared to other groups, like the big charities in size, but we are part of the few. Maybe that is what draws us all together.
Thanks to NLG for providing a place for us all to meet future friends and get and provide help tothe sme.
Dave F