S-Plus slot Missing Door harness to CC and wire mod

[LuckyDog]

After fixing other issues on this newly acquired S-Plus slot machine, I seem to be down to the Coin In section.

Initially powering up the machine gave a 21 error.  Took apart the ABC section & gave it a good cleaning.  Stink bugs had come with the machine, all over including optics module.  Cleaned the CC and replaced the cap.

Put the coin comparitor and ABC sections back in machine and realized there was no cable to connect to the coin comparitor's tiny 3 pin connector.  No cables in the door have any connector that mates.

I inspected and removed cable marked 600-10200 that connects to the ABC section. It also had a 4 pin and 3 pin connector that was routed to an empty dbv or maybe a tito opening.  I unwrapped the black tape on the 3 pin connector to find pins 1 & 3 wires cut off & twisted together.

Thinking it might be some kind of hack for free play or.... Reinstalled the coin mechanism back where it was & tried the machine again.

Turned the machine on and was surprised to find it worked.  Played a couple dozen spins with the machine seeming to play as it should; accepts coins (to the hopper), spins, & pays out normally.

Turned off.  Came back an hour later and back to error 21.

Questions:
1) Is there an adapter cable missing that goes between the 3 pin on the 600-10200 cable to the coin comparitor??
2) Does this wire mod put any undue stresses on ABC section or MPU?
3) Is it supposed to work reliably with this mod & CC unpowered?  It makes for a great piggy bank as it accepts any coin. (long as I don't cash out !! )
4) Why is this comparitor connector only 3 pins vs most other CC-16 unit I see that have 6 pins

Thanks

[Stayouttadabunker]

Ouch! Your coin harness has been butchered.
If you want, send it to me and I'll repair it for you.

                          OR


Contact JIM at Midwest Slots for a harness and a proper coin comparitor.
His phone number's on the homepage of NLG up in the vendor listings.

[Trisail]

Check out this post about coin comparitors I made.

https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=32977.msg174743#msg174743

From your post it seems your machine will work as is.

Error 21 is a coin in jam.

I'm not familiar with the 2 wires twisted together to get what appears to be free play.  When I have time later I can look at the schematics and see what they do.

I don't see a sample coin in the comparitor pictures. Install one if you haven't already.

You said the coins all go into the hopper... if so the rake on the coin comparitor must be bypassed or something. On a working machine the coins would fall through to the coin tray.

You don't connect any plug to the 3 pin connector on the comparitor.

With the sample coin installed, and the harness plugged in, turn the machine on, open the door and press the small white button on the optics board to do test to add coins. If that works, I think your machine will work properly if you get the 2 wires connected again to that connector.

Let me know how it goes.
Send me a PM if you want to get help.

Take a picture of the other side of the coin comparitor and post it please.

[Jim]

First off, you have the wrong cc in the machine, that cc is for dollars, not small coin.
we need a picture of your coin optic board, the actual components side, I want to see if Q-2 or Q-4 has been removed, I am guessing that it has been.
as for the the two wires twisted together, tape them separately, not together, they are the lockout signal that would turn on the cc-16 and send a signal to the optic board. you do not need them in your current situation.
basically someone modified the dollar cc to route quarters through it and get them into the coin optics.

do the Popsicle test <10-1,11-1, 12-1 test to test the optics, press the white test button beneath the 10 pin connector on the optic board and see if it puts a credit on the machine.

tape the wires, see if closing the door will clear the 21 code, then do the test.

Hope this helps.

Jim

P.S. That three pin connector where they snipped the two wires from, that is where you would typically plug the three pin harness with either the three pin connector for dollar cc, or the six pin connector for small coin.

with Q_2 or Q-4 removed, you can use a mechanical acceptor, or what they did to the dollar cc to get the coin into the coin optic, you do not need any harness or anything else, as long as the coin goes into the coin optic and goes into the hopper.     

[LuckyDog]

Thanks for the great info guys.

Have a real cluster f--- of a coin assembly here.
The head looks to be a quarter, comparitor a $ unit, and the optics are a nickle!

Removed the complete coin assembly and butchered cable from the S+ and replaced it with a known good setup from a quarter PE+ Poker machine. Used the cables from the poker unit.

Still getting 21 error that won't go away.

Will try the popsicle test & look into the self test menu's tomorrow.  This is my first S+ experience and the menus look a bit intimidating

Found a CC 16-D .100 laying around.  Would this be compatible with the nickle optics?
Concerned as there is a 4th wire cut off of the sensing unit.

[Jim]

thanks for the pictures.  helps alot.   
the nickel encoder is not a problem, a quarter will pass through the encoder and work just fine, been doing it for years.

the red wire is a problem, it would have to be repaired. it goes to the connector with the other three wires.

since you replaced the entire unit with a known good one and still get a 21  code leads me to think your door optics are not clearing that code.  does the display go blank when you closed the door and latch down after replacement?  or does the code remain on the display constantly? 

you could put the metal bracket with the optics from your s plus machine in the poker, using the harness and cc-16 from the poker machine, they are the same, this will test those optics and eliminate one thing.

once we can clear the 21 code  I have a fix for the other issues,

Hope this helps

Jim

[LuckyDog]

Still using the known good optics assembly.
Door optics seem to be ok, display consistently changes soon as door opens, and several seconds after closing.

Looks like there is a poor connection.  Just as a shot in the dark, I re-seated the connectors on top of the MPU chassis coming from the door.   I hadn't got around to spraying them with contact cleaner yet.
Machine seemed to play as it should, accepting tokens & rejecting all coins. Spins & winning combos are paid right.  Cashout pays the proper amount.

I tried the popsicle test on the optics, but saw no change in the display for either 10-1 or 10-2.  Didn't get to a 10-3.  Not sure I'm stepping thru the tests properly.
Some trys only saw a 10-1  followed next by a 50.  I need to do more homework on this aspect.  maybe a noisy switch

I will reconnect the red wire on the comparitor and then give that a try.

THANK YOU for all the help   

[LuckyDog]

Got the red wire on the comparitor replaced, but haven't got tested yet.  Been interrupted with an unexpected trip to the dentist which required a broken molar be cut out.

[LuckyDog]

Got a chance to play with this some more....
Played machine for an hour or so,  wiggled all wiring from MPU to door with no issues.  Accepting tokens just fine.
Then tried the popsicle test: 10_1 showed no activity, while 11_1 & 12_1 toggled as expected.

Manual states that the Input Test mode can't be terminated while active.
Can it cause problems if I turn off machine....while still in Input Test mode?

I  turned it off while in test mode (before reading that) and now it's back to Error 21.
Next step will be to install another known working coin assembly (#3) and cable harness.

[Stayouttadabunker]

To get out of the tests, all you need to do is close the door.
It doesn't hurt to turn OFF the machine either...it will just boot back up into game mode - if the door is closed.
However, if your door optics aren't working, you cannot get into game mode.

Basically, a [21] error code is the coin-in optics being blocked with debris or paper.
The coin-in optics need to "see" each other - just like the door optics.

                               or

There's something wrong with the coin-in optics board itself.
Can you swap it out with another one to rule it out?

[LuckyDog]

Installed a complete optic system from another known good system, (refer to this as set #3).
Powered up machine with it  working as it should.

Door Open optics look to be working good.  As the level is raised to unlatch the door, display goes blank consistently at about 1/2" of travel. Markings on door/case line up good.  Swapped out received side anyway.

Opened door & went into Test Input mode and did the popsicle test.
10_1 no activity
11_1 toggles
12_1 toggles
Exited test mode, game still working.

Should test step 10_1 toggle?
Would the game work with Coin In A not toggling?

FWIW Chips are    
Reel     SS4712
Game   SP709

Next be inspecting wiring more closely.  Looks clean & intact, but will look anyway.
Thanks

[Stayouttadabunker]

Should test step 10_1 toggle?
Would the game work with Coin In A not toggling?

I believe that depends on whether or not the Q2 chip is busted off or not.
Be careful, on some coin-in optic board versions, its labeled and marked as Q4.
No matter what, it's a 3-legged chip right in the location of the three "ABC" optics.

Now, if the coin-in optic board wasn't sending credits back to the MPU, the fix was you could always bust the Q2 chip off the board.
I am not sure exactly what busting off the chip does, but it's possible that Q2 or Q4 chip has something to do for the "A" top optic? IDK
I've only ever tried it to a couple of coin-in optic boards, and it did help to send credits back to the MPU.
Below is a photo I took of two different coin-in optic board versions.
You'll see the Q2 is still on one board, while the Q4 chip is missing from the other.
You can still see that it was indeed a 3-pin chip.
Click on photo to enlarge if needed...>>>

I do think that [10-1] has to toggle in the tests, to get credits.
Did you try to throw a coin thru to see if registered?

[LuckyDog]

Yea, it accepts coins just fine.  Rejects the correct ones also.

I removed & opened up the optics, everything looks to be in place.  Will try to check each of the emitters & receivers

[Stayouttadabunker]

If it's accepting coins and registering the credits back to the MPU, it's fine as it is. 
Don't worry about the [10-1] test not working.
It could just be a burned-out emitter diode, or a burn-out receiver optic.
At least two of them are working.

The ABC optics shoot out infrared light that really cannot be seen by our eyes.
In pitch black darkness, I can see a faint reddish color coming out but nothing like what the camera sees.
You'd need a digital camera such as a cellphone camera to see it like this...>>>

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZDpGNtZfi04?si=b9vcm4PPrnphCmZ3

[Jim]

if your machine is working, then the optics are working. if your optic board still has Q-2 or Q-4 installed 10-1 will not work.

typically on a optic board that will not accept coins, removing Q-2 or Q-4 will return the optic board to a working condition and it will start to accept coins.

it removes the interaction between the optic board and the cc-16 via the purple wire.

can't explain why it works, only fact is removing that surface mount transistor removes a potential ground being placed on the  A optic.

getting back to your original set of optics that gave you a 21 code, in your picture it showed Q-2 still on that set of optic boards, if you remove it, that could possibly get that set of optics working. and 10-1 should toggle if you do the test.


someone did post an explanation as to why removing Q-2 works, don't know how to find it, I think it was in a thread??

Hope this helps.

Jim
 

[Stayouttadabunker]

Jay said castrating the Q2 or Q4 chip, bypasses the inhibit function.

[LuckyDog]

Thanks guys. 
Will take a closer look at the IR parts on all 3 sets of optics.

Wondering if the 2nd set of optics got damaged when I plugged them in with the modified harness... (Pins 1 & 3 removed from the 3 pin connector & tied together). From what i could trace on the schematics the lockout signal looked to be 24VAC?  Quite a stretch from the normal logic levels.

No time to look at this again for several days at least.
Thanks again!

[LuckyDog]

if your machine is working, then the optics are working. if your optic board still has Q-2 or Q-4 installed 10-1 will not work.

Thanks Jim, Very good to know.

Finally got back to it, Took apart and checked all 3 sets of optics.  Checked all emitters and receivers with a multimeter diode scale.  Everything looked the same between all three.  The transistor was installed on all three.  Explains why they all failed the 10-1 test only.

Machine is now working with no error messages!
Thanks again guys!!