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Author Topic: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we  (Read 1241 times)

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Offline PinJim

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Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« on: January 04, 2022, 05:14:33 PM »
Hello-
I just acquired this Williams Top Cat and it seems to be reporting a “logic open” error. I assumed it was related to the door switch, but if I manually close that switch the reels spin and the error remains. Any ideas on what it may be?

Thanks in advance!

Offline Trisail

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2022, 05:17:27 PM »
The logic door is the door/switch that covers the boards. Others may have more information.  Check there 1st.
Tony

You can fix almost any electronic device by replacing the aluminum electrolytic capacitors.

Offline PinJim

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2022, 05:52:50 PM »
That was it, thanks! Needless to say this is my first Williams 400 machine. I got a 40x at the same time. The 40x reboots every few seconds, and the lights on the 400 flicker badly. I assume both are in desperate need of capacitor replacement on the power supplies. Wonder if it’s just cheaper to do the ATX mod.

Are the reels always that noisy on Williams games? My S+ reels make some noise, but not as much as the Williams machines.

Offline Trisail

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2022, 06:04:49 PM »
From what I remember the reels are noisy.  I do the power supply repair and if you haven't checked the forum yet I have pictures and layout of the caps. Up to you how you want to proceed. I have found other devices are bad on the wms lower and upper supplies not just caps - mosfet, resistors, transistors. 

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=31351.0

PM me if want help, repair or information.  I replace a lot of components on the ps's and have parts. Also do the distribution board caps too, the board under the lower ps.
Tony

You can fix almost any electronic device by replacing the aluminum electrolytic capacitors.

Offline PinJim

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2022, 06:13:49 PM »
I’ve always been a fan of keeping things original. I’ve revived pinball machines from the late 70s and “bulletproofed” the boards. But certainly these power supplies look at bit more complex, switching. I assume the 400 is just caps, the 40x rebooting makes me wonder if there’s a deeper issue. I’ll price out the caps and see how it compares to a cheap ATX supply.

Thanks a bunch for the detailed pics!!!

Offline playklax01

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2022, 01:26:05 PM »
A failing power supply in a 400/401 can produce all kinds of strange symptoms.  The most common is simply no logic activity (no reel spinning, blank display, no error codes, etc), just a dead machine that lights up general illumination only.  But things like constant rebooting can be contributed to the power supply too, it's the achilles heel of these machines.  I know what you mean about keeping it original, I feel the same way.  But I have the ATX supply on hand as a backup in case my current PS dies...

Offline PinJim

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2022, 02:55:41 PM »
I bought (1) ATX power supply today. I'll hack it into one of the machines. Honestly, it's cheaper and less time consuming than replacing all of the caps on the existing supply. Bummer, but it's just more cost effective and less time consuming.

I did notice that the 20VDC supply isn't "fixed" by the ATX solution. Anyone have a schematic for that supply? I assume it drives lights and ????

Offline TVB2868

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2022, 04:57:10 PM »
I'm pretty sure this is what you're looking for.

Offline PinJim

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2022, 07:44:09 PM »
Just kinda replying to myself here. I hacked in an ATX supply and it’s working. I was going to connect the upper display to the same ATX supply and when I pulled the DMD out, someone already hacked an ATX into the top, albeit shoddily. I’ll remove the second supply and do more rewiring.

My hopper doesn’t work very well. Where can I source parts for it? It spits out a quarter every 5 or 10 seconds even with a fairly full hopper.

Offline playklax01

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2022, 06:12:19 AM »

My hopper doesn’t work very well. Where can I source parts for it? It spits out a quarter every 5 or 10 seconds even with a fairly full hopper.

Do you mean it actually churns and spits out a quarter?  If so, you may want to check the coin acceptor setup.  The machine may be seeing an extra coin go through (dirty optics, slow drop), or if the flipper for when the coin is accepted isn't working properly it could allow more coins than the max to be accepted and cause the same problem (i.e. 4 coins in on 3 coin max, spit one out after the spin). 

Offline PinJim

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2022, 10:29:32 AM »
Sorry, I don't think I was clear. When I cash out or get a large hit, the hopper spins but rarely does a quarter actually spit out into the coin tray. The hopper has a lot of quarters in it, so it's not a hopper empty issue. Of course, every 15 seconds or so the machine stops for a hopper empty error. I open/close the coin door and the process repeats.

I pulled the hopper our today to check out the hopper knife. Ugh, this thing looks to be home made. And there's also some random rubber piece I found inside the hopper. Hmmmm.

Does anyone sell 400 series hopper parts?


Offline playklax01

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2022, 01:07:26 PM »
Oh ok.  I get it.  The knife is only one part to look at.  Generally, if it appears homemade but functional, it's likely fine (caveat below...).  I'd watch the hopper in motion to see where the coins are falling off the elevator, it sounds like they're obviously not staying for the whole ride to the top.  It's not really that complex of a device.  Rotor picks up it, carries it to the top, rolls down the knife, click the level to count it.  If it's falling off by the knife, the knife may need some adjustment.

However, it sounds like you may have the wrong size hopper for your machine.  Tolerances are pretty exact with these.  If it should be quarters, see if the there is play between the rotor and the wall when the coin is rising, it should be a close fit with no play.  If you had a 50c/$1 hopper, the quarter could easily move around (and fall off) the rotor.  And this also lends credence to the fact the knife looks homemade...someone may have tried to convert the hopper earlier by mickey-mousing it. 

Offline Terps

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Re: Williams 400 series tilt - logic open we
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2022, 04:03:28 PM »
Hi, can you lease post a pic of your hopper and a close up of the wheel inside the hopper that transports the quarters to pay them out. The hopper knife and setup you have is coreect ,but looks like it is in terrible condition. I have extra hoppers if you need one. You bought the Top Cat kit my me on eBay, so please let me know how I can help.

Thanks
Terps

 

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