New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: DiverDan on December 26, 2021, 09:46:55 PM
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Bally 5500 won't register a credit when quarter inserted. It makes it through the comparitor (only because I had to manually hold it open because it stopped working also), and the yellow light blinks on the optic board and the coin is sent into the hopper, but:
It doesn't register a credit so you can't play.
All of this started when I replaced the battery and PUT THE CLEAR CHIPS IN BACKWARDS (no scolding please....I've done enough myself;).
So, I ordered the U 3, 4, 12, and 15 (no need for clear chips) and inserted them.
The machine powered up just fine, the insert coin is flashing, but it doesn't give a credit when the coin is inserted.
With the door open, I can click the button on the optic board up to 3 times and hit play and the wheels spin and game seems to function normally.
But, close the door and insert a coin and you hear it enter the hopper but No Credit.....
Ideas???
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Is the "Coin Mech" switch on the front of the MPU in the up position?
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Check the switch 1st, like Sunrise suggested.
Here is a link that explains the coin comparitor and optics for reference-
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=32977.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=32977.0)
If the coin comparitor does not allow the coin to go to the optics-
Bad sample coin
Sensitivity potentiometer adjustment
The solenoid that moves the armature (rake) is not working. Most likely cause - a bad 220uf capacitor on the coin comparitor pcb
Bad wire or connections on the coin comparitor, not the optics as your test works.
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Yes, the switch is up (on).
Do you really think that putting in the clear chip backwards made the capacitor blow?
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No on the capacitor blow.
The common failure on the coin comparitor solenoid not working is a bad cap. Sometimes the solenoid/rake vibrates and make noise, or they go bad and don't work at all. It sounds like it worked before the battery and clear problem - the caps are old and go bad. The only problem a new cap would correct is the problem of having to
'manually hold it open because it stopped working'
As for not putting credits on the machine - there are quite a few things that could cause that. Troubleshooting each thing that could cause the problem is where you are at now. More members with knowledge can help get you going. I have tried to help a few with the same problem and have not come up with any type of standard fix.
If the test works - then the signal from the optics PCB is good. The coin comparitor and the optics 'talk' between them from what I can tell. Some have fixed the problem by repairing or replacing cables from the coin comparitor. Some by software settings.
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Any bent pins on the edge connector on the MPU? Any bent pins on the new chips you installed. Have you used clears chips on this machine before? 5500 Bally's don't normally use clear chips. They use a jumper on a set of pins. If it worked before battery change I would go back and check the things that were changed, maybe even another set of mains.
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The pins are fine. I've been using the clear chips on this machine for 2 decades now every time I change the battery. Unfortunately, This Time, I must have had a brain freeze and put all of the chips in backwards and that's the last the machine worked.
I just purchased new clear and new leave in main chips HOPING that everything would work again....Unfortunately, it didn't.
Believe me, I know that coincidences happen but the odds that some problem happened at the Exact Time that I changed the chips have me at odds.
I keep hoping that someone will be able tell me that since you put the chips in backwards, that caused A B C to happen and you just have to do X Y Z to fix it.....I said hoping, I should have said Praying...[;-D)
This machine has been here so long I would just hate to bring it to the dump.
Thank ALL of you that are trying to help this old man<<<<He needs it;)
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I understand your frustration. I'm sure members here can help you get your machine working.
Putting the chips in backward would usually cause the chip to go bad. From my experience, doing one usually doesn't cause other damage to other devices. I'm not sure what putting 'all of them in backwards' would do. Could it cause other problems on the MPU? I don't know. The most likely reason the chips go bad when inserted 'backwards' is the power pin(s) are applied to pins on the chip that are not built/designed for that. Too much current would flow into a pin and damage the circuit internal to the chip, the chip would probably get hot/warm to the touch. If left in that condition long, the circuits could open up and the current would stop to flow, or the circuit would be shorted and pull current the whole time power is applied. Either way the chip is bad. Could that cause other devices to fail. Possibly. After removing the bad components and replacing with new, chances are the other devices may be ok, but you really never know until you find all the problems and repair.
As for problems happening at the exact time - hard to say. Electronic devices are built to operate under certain design parameters and if they are operated beyond those, the device has a good chance to fail. So on to what I believe are the 2 problems you are having.
1st - the coin comparitor dropping the coin into the tray instead of into the hooper. In normal operation, with the machine initialized and ready to play and accept a coin, certain things must be satisfied- initialization must have completed, door(s) must be closed, etc. (Not only does the machine have to 'look' initialized and the door physically closed - the machine 'sensors' and wires, connections must be proper so the machine 'knows' everything is ok and ready to play). Because something was done to cause the machine to malfunction, it must be troubleshot to determine the cause of the malfunction. New chips are a good start. Let's start with the assumption the MPU is ok for now.
You know the machine worked before the chip thing. The problem is - the machine will not accept a coin and put a credit on it for play. 2 main components control that function, the coin comparitor and the optics board. You are able to verify in the test mode the optics unit can send the signal to the machine and that functions. Good, the optics board is probably ok. (That is my 2nd problem I mentioned so let's call that ok for now). The coin comparitor will not allow the coin to pass to the optics. To troubleshoot that - the MPU must initialize and setup the coin comparitor for operation, to accept a coin, to basically, enable it. If that happened, a couple of things have to happen - the coin sensor circuit must see a valid coin, which in turn would turn on the solenoid to activate the 'rake', which in turn would allow the coin to pass to the optics. You said that does not happen so you had to manually hold it open to get the coin to go to the hopper, but the unit would still not put a credit on the machine. That tells me the coin comparitor is not working. My 1st thought is the machine is not ready for play. Maybe the coin comparitor is bad. I don't think the coin comparitor is bad - if the capacitor on the pcb was bad and not allowing the solenoid to energize, the coin would indeed be dropped to the tray. By you manually holding it open, that would be the same as placing a shim between the coil and rake to allow the coin to go to the hopper. But wait, could you have done that with the door closed? Possible, but I am going to assume you had the door open for that. So, that brings us back to whether the coin comparitor is enabled by the mpu.
Try putting a shim in the coin comparitor, shut the door and see if the coin goes to the hopper and the optics put a credit on the machine. Let's stop here for now and see what that test tells us.
I will also assume you do not have another machine to swap parts with. I will also assume you would rather not start buying parts that may or may not be bad. That leaves us with trying one thing at a time to try to determine the cause of the problem. Most logical, least expensive, easy to do, leading to the next thing to try.
I hope this helps. I get on these long winded posts at times. Bear with me, and others. My apologies if I am out of line. It's what I do.
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With the door open:
I turn on the machine, the reels do their thing, the green light on the compairtor is off, and a yellow light appears on the 'coin optic board'.
I can click the button on the 'coin optic board' up to 3 times and it will give 3 credits which can be played as long as the door remains open. (If I close the door, the 3 credits get erased)
When I hold in the door switch (making the machine think the door is closed):
The yellow light remains on the optic board, a green light turns on the comparitor, and the "Insert Coin" lights up and starts to blink.
I have a q-tip holding the rake on the compariator open because it now isn't opening on it's own. When I drop a coin in, it goes through the compariator and then the coin optic board and I see the yellow led blink (I assumed the optic board is what tells the machine to add a credit so I don't know if that little blink is a good or bad thing)
IF I actually close the door the machine does the Exact same thing as when I just hold the door switch except that you can now hear the quarter drop into the hopper instead of my hand.
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Sounds like the optic board with the yellow led is working.
The coin comparitor with the green led is working.
The deflector (see image below) I believe is the overflow deflector that causes coins to go to the chute when the hopper is full.
The solenoid for the 'rake' in the coin comparitor is not mentioned in the image below, which is the wiring diagram for the Bally S5500. That solenoid is not working as you need the q tip as a shim. That is controlled by the coin comparitor circuit (magnet) that compares the sample coin to the dropped coin. That is not working.
The coin comparitor sends the coin sense signal to the optics board, the optics board sends the coin credit signal to the mpu.
The optics coin credit signal gets to the mpu in the test mode, so that should be good. That leaves the coin sense signal 'missing' from the coin comparitor to the optics board. Or the enable signal from the mpu to the optics board is missing.
The deflector may or may not be working. It is controlled by the mpu. If the deflector was energized the coin would go to the overflow chute, so let's say that is ok.
So we have 3 things to check (or get working) to get a credit on the machine -
The rake solenoid > most common failures < are: 220uf cap, solenoid wires and connector.
The coin sense signal > most common failures < are: no sample coin or not installed correct. Bad device on pcb/bad pcb. Wires/connections.
The enable signal > mpu bad? Wires/connections. (I haven't worked on that signal before)
Almost sounds like the most logical problem is a bad mpu board with missing enable signal. Due to problem happening after chips installed backwards.
Or a bad comparitor. Coincidence?
That leaves a few options.
Buy replacement mpu or send mpu out for repair.
Buy replacement comparitor.
Try to check the signals with a meter to verify proper operation.
Check all the wires/connections for problems.
I've listed these in most costly to most time consuming/least costly.
I would start from the bottom up. I would check the wires/connections carefully. Then try to measure the 2 signals, enable and coin sense with a meter to see they change states when they should. (This may be harder to do as the door may need to be closed or maybe manually bypassed as you mentioned)
If these don't help, hopefully the knowledge gained would help determine if a replacement comparitor or mpu would need to be tried.
Let me know what you think. Maybe other member(s) have suggestions.
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I have a 5500 machine . If you want to send the MPU, comparitor, and coin optics to me for testing, , PM me.
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Thank You So Much for the offer, Sunrise. I'll keep that one in mind.
BTW: Do you know WHERE I could purchase a New Compariator or Coin Optic Board?
The only ones that I can find are on ebay and then you get old ones or take your chances for over $100 and that is JUST for the comparitor!
I've ordered new board chips and am just about at the end of my rope as far as pumping more money into this machine. Today it isn't even acting the same way that it was yesterday! Maybe when I calm down...[;-D)
Also, Do you have any idea why I can't access the NLG file system? I was hoping to download that large 5500 manual that could possible give me more ideas. I donated as a guest to the site but I still can't access.
I was hoping to get that 173 page manual (IF it is available). Perhaps there would be a more in-depth testing method that would give me a better idea before I just bring this Old Loved Machine to the dump:(
Also, perhaps I could figure out HOW to just wire the thing to work for free. I could then just purchase a separate coin acceptor from Amazon for 25 bucks and jury-rig it into the machine (like they do for video-game-consoles)
Anyway, Thanks Again for your offer.<<<Kind folk are rare these days.
Dan
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For a comparitor , check with NLG member Jim - Midwest slots. He sells parts. As far as not getting a credit when the coin passes through the optics, could be the optics prism is dirty. If it's not acting the same, you may have a bad power supply if it has never been changed. That is a common problem and could be all the cause of your issues. Very easy and inexpensive repair. http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=1825.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=1825.0) This is what I recommend.
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Does Anyone know why I can't access the NLG file system?<<<I don't know if there is something that I am missing.
I'm trying to find the 173 page 5500 Bally manual. It MAY help me fix my ailing girl.
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To access downloads and place classified ads - you would need to be a contributing member. That is basically a donation to the site for upkeep and costs. A benefit for contributing. A one time donation or monthly $10 will get you access. Check the home page for the link (PayPal) then an administrator will give access and you can add the contributing member icon to your profile.
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That's just it...I Made a $10 donation as a guest through paypal but can't download the manual...???
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PM Joeylc and see what he can do for you. I saw in another post he should be the person that takes care of the PayPal and access.
Donating as a guest probably won't supply them with your username.
I also know it does take some period of time to get access as it is not an automatic thing on the site. It would be done manually by one on the administrators/moderators.
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What information is on page 173 that will help you?
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Hi, My Bally's 5500 is experiencing the exact same issue.
The problem started when I cleared a coin jam with the door open while it was powered on.
Learned my lesson the hard way to not touch anything while its powered on. :duh:
I'm looking into replacing the optics board.
I will be here watching for a solution. I will also let you guys know if I had any breakthroughs.
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I don't know what is on ANY page, Sunrise. I was just told by someone that there is a 173 page manual for the Bally 5500 that has EVERYTHING that I would need<<<Have No Idea if it is even true or not..
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DiverDan, check your messages. I sent you a PM a few days ago.
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The new chips came in and now the machine is flashing 50. and then 23. over and over in the WIN PAID window.
Any ideas guys?
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I'm following the post - you say the new chips came in and you have 2 error messages.
Not sure what you mean by new chips came in, but I will assume game chips?
Your original problem was coin would not register a credit. OK. If you got new chips and the machine is doing something different, IE 50 and 23. I will go with that.
Error 50 = Slot door open - the main door switch senses the door is open
Error 23 = Coin not sensed - Coin was not sensed by the coin optic (DS2-8 = OFF Diverter optic installed)
This information is from the Bally Proslot 5500 manual from the download section.
So - Are you able to download from the site?
With the new chips your machine door switch appears to not be working. That could be something wrong with the chips or the door or possibly a number of things.
The error 23 says your optics are probably not working - the original problem you started with.
I would suggest -
Put the old chips back in and continue trying to troubleshoot the coin credit problem.
Or
Try to get the main door switch working with the new chips and then work on troubleshooting the optics error 23. The door switch must be working to get the machine to accept a coin and put credits on the machine.
Up to you how you want to proceed.
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Trisail, What exactly does this mean: "(DS2-8 = OFF Diverter optic installed)"
Do you mean that the coin optic board isn't working?<<<IF SO, is there a way to just by-pass the optic board in order to test?
In other words, Is there a way to just allow the machine to give a credit no matter what coin is put into it?<<That way I would know that the optic board is defective.
BTW: Yes, I did get your message about helping while waiting for access, THANKS. I can now access the files.
I'm at my wits end on this machine. I'd be willing to buy an optic board, if you know somewhere that we can purchase one, but we've just about had it spending money just TRYING different things. Our Social Security money would be better spent in other places, so my wife says...[;-D)
It's just So Hard To Believe that all of this happened just because I put the chips in backwards when replacing the battery. This old machine had been working Perfectly for 2 decades.<<<But heck, I guess that: "It Is Always Something" or another;)
Thanks again, Trisail, for all of your help. I am DEFINITELY out of my league trying to fix this machine. I just don't have the knowledge or know-how in this area.
We're about to sent it to the dump but it is killing me because I KNOW that it has to be something easy to fix. Unfortunately, I just don't have the knowledge or, more importantly, the money to just keep 'trying things'.
Thanks Again,
Dan
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Can anyone tell me what this means:"(DS2-8 = OFF Diverter optic installed)"
ALSO
Does anyone know how to just bypass the coin optics and just install a button for Free Play??
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I believe divert optic is a set of optics that would be installed at the coin divert chute that would count coins that go to the coin bucket in the slot stand? You could connect wires from the Psuedo button on the coin optics and connect them to the change button and disconnect one wire from door plunger switch so it thinks the door is open and play it in test mode. /
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If you want to send the optics to me , i will test them in my working machine
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Once again, Very Kind and helpful, Sunrise. Thank You.
The main problem is even if it is the coin-in optic board, I can't seem to find anyone that sells them...:(
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I sent you a PM
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This is the Coin Optic Board that I need:
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Have you checked the edge connector on the MPU for bent pins? You now have changed the optic board and If the coin passes through the optics and does not give a credit a couple things to check. The optics send a signal through the holes in the black plastic coin guide block. Make sure the holes are clean of dust build up.
The optics send a single through the guide to a prism. The prism reflects the signal to the receiver's. Be sure the prism is clean of residue.
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Yep, I did that awhile back with the old board. I think this old dog has finally hit the wall.
I believe that I'm just going to throw a blanket over it for awhile and 'TRY' to put it out of my mind. Then, one day, I'll have to make a decision on what to do with the old girl.
Thanks Again for All of the help, friends.
Y'all are a great bunch of people.
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Dan. Read this post about broken wires on the door harness. http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=35265.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=35265.0)
Here's a wiring diagram showing optics. http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34713.0;attach=104287;image (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34713.0;attach=104287;image)
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Be sure DS-2 switch #8 is on and then do a clear. See if error 23 goes away.
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Is the coin switch on the front of the computer tray in the up position?
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I think I have the same issue with my 5500.
Orange light on Optics board.
Coin falls through the hopper
Insert Coin light is not lit.
Coin comparitor is no lit.
I also replaced battery, did a reset and everything seemed fine with CLC updates
Coin mech switch is up
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I have it even worse than you, mh.
The lights on my comparitor AND optic board are all saying they are fine and working.
The insert coin light IS on and everything seems normal.
I have NO error codes and the machine looks ready to receive coins and play.
However:
When you put in a coin, you can hear it drop into the hopper BUT you don't get a credit so you can't play it.
I just got SO frustrated, I just added a button near the coin insert that would let the grandkids play the game. They can push it up to 3 times to enter a credit and then push the button OR pull the handle to play. Of Course, if they win, nothing happens and it doesn't show a win BUT they get a kick out of pulling the handle and watching the reels spin. THEN they try and figure out IF they would have won IF the machine actually worked.
The machine went from our game room to our play room and will probably end up in the garbage heap to give us More Room...[;-D)
It's Always Something.
BTW: HOW are your coins ending up in your hopper IF the comparitor isn't lit?
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mh try pushing the sudo coin button on the main board to see if it adds a credit. Also, try pressing the little white button on your coin optic circuit to see if it also adds a credit.
If the sudo coin works your mother board is working
If the white button on your coin optic works then your optic board is working
I'm assuming that If both are work the issue is somewhere between the coin and optic
Just guessing, if your not getting any lights you might not be getting power to your coin comparator circuit which might be a wiring issue.
I'm in the same situation DiverDan is in. I have an electrician looking at my machine at the moment.