New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games => Topic started by: nacdale on February 27, 2022, 05:23:32 PM
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I just got a S+ red white blue that takes the coin into the hopper but doesn't register any credits. I have cleaned the optics sensor and believe the comparator is working.
Is there a chance there is a setting i might have messed up that caused this?
I'm still digging but thought someone might know this one easily.
Thanks
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Right behind the coin comparitor is a big White Molex connector with mostly orange wires going into it....pull it apart and push it back together a few times.
It's possible the a ground wire could be oxidized or broken.
Rubbing the pins by connecting and reconnecting might give you a better connection.
If not...I have no idea what to tell you....you didn't tell us if this accepted and registered coins before.
What type of coin do you have in the comparitor?
It has to "compare" the coins you're trying to use.
Do some reading on adjusting the coin comparitor too.
It's not that hard to do.....just turn the little screw on the CC fully counter-clockwise, then clockwise about a 1/4 turn to get it shooting a credit signal back to the MPU when a coin goes thru the optics.
BTW what "optics" did you "clean" and how?
I'm not picking on you just because you've said that you're a "newby"...I just need details in order to help you.
The more you can tell us about this machine, the better we CAN help you.
There's info on the home page regarding the S+ and how to test your coin-in optics board with a popsicle.
Nevermind....here's a link to it...>>>
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=14723.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=14723.0)
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Thanks for the reply. I just picked it up from someone and it was working before I brought it home. but it was sensitive. I did the sensitivity adjustment back and forth and left it at min sensitivity but tried it in the middle. The coin optics board seemed to have a black haze on everything I cleaned the actual optics. I will try the optics test tomorrow.
I do have a token in it. I made sure it was in the right way. It does send the token inside not to the tray below. That's why I thought it might be optics.
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Hmm...your coin comparitor must be okay if the dial is sending coins to the hopper or drop hole.
Check the black wire on the CC harness for continuity with a multimeter...it's for ground....it could be broken instead of the tray.
Best way to check is to completely undo the harness from the machine and on the bench.
There's only a few connections...The main door harness, the CC, the Coin-In optics board and the CC rake.
The one you really want to look at is the small harness from this one below to the CC....it would be the bottom, black wire.
But no matter what, check all of those wires below for continuity.
Your ground wire might be okay, but there could be a broken data wire and that purple wire is the one that sends a signal to the coin in optics and back to the MPU for a credit.
That's why it's important that ALL of these wires I've pictured below MUST have continuity.
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As to the coins going to the hopper - often the diverter solenoid has failed and is wire tied back....
The solenoid is pulled in allowing the coins to go to the hopper once a valid coin is received.
When the diverter solenoid fails - a quick fix is to wire tie the diverter so all coins go to the hopper - good or not.
I have also seen people do this when the coin comparator has gone bad.
I would take a look and see if your diverter is being held in place.
SOOO... assuming anything put in the coin slot is going to the hopper - the most common reason for a coin not being registered as a credit is that the machine does not sense its door as being closed........
Do we know that the door is being sensed as closed ??
Press the white test button several times, close the door, the reels should spin and come to rest
Whats the candle doing ? is it lit, off, flashing ?
Is the Insert Coin Light on ? when the door is closed and ready to play ?
Do you get a test credit when you press the micro button on the optics ?
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The insert coin light is on. I believe that the door is closed. It lest me load via the bill validator and those credits are recorded. I will still do the test to make sure as im not sure if the bill Validator works with the door open or not.
I do get the test credit when i push the micro button. I can get up to 2 credits.
The lower candle (Yellow) is fast flashing. If i read right that might be the door. I assumed it was something else since the Bill Validator worked.
Maybe this is super simple and i missed the forest through the trees.
Thanks
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If it takes bills - and gives credits then your door is good.
If you can press the small credit button then your optic is wired properly and appears to be working.
Have you tried the popsicle stick test ?
This blocks each of the 3 optics and they go from 1 to 0
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I didnt get a chance to do the popsicle test. That will happen tonight when i get home.
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During the coin test it did not work for 10, but did for 11 and 12.
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Time to order some new optics.....
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You think the optics are bad? Mine does the same thing test wise, but they work.
The Input Tests section says "10_1 Coin in A is activated only when coin comparitor accepts coins in door-closed game mode; go to COIN B input test."
I'm not quite sure how you do that test and observe it too.
11 and 12 change state when blocked.
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Optics ordered and on the way. Thanks everyone for all the help.
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your problem might have been solved by removing Q-2 or Q-4 from the optic board, a surface mount transistor with three legs.
this will fix the problem 99% of the time.
don't understand why everyone is so afraid to do this, it will not change how your machine works, everything will work as it should.
AND THE IMPORTANT PART IS YOUR MACHINE WILL WORK , AND COST YOU NOTHING.
done this for over twenty years and hundreds of machines,
Just try to save people money they don't have to spend.
Hope this helps.
Jim
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To add to Jim's Reply, below is a photo I've attached of an IGT S+ Coin-In Optics board with the highlighted Q4 chip.
This Q4 chip can be removed from the circuit board when problems like this occur with an S+.
It busts off easy with a pair of tweezers as it's only held on by three small soldering points.
Click on photo below to enlarge if you want...>>>
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For my knowledge - Are these different versions of the optic board with some having a Q2 and others having a Q4 ?? or do they all have both and you only need to clip one or the other ??
I guess if your at the point of ordering a new optic board there is no harm trying to simply clip the transistor.
- assuming you were prepared to spend the $$ there is nothing that you are going to do that is make you spend more and you might just save a buck or two based on the outcome.
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They (IGT) made different versions Jay.
Some circuit boards had the Q2 chip, while other boards had the Q4 chip.
Whichever chip is on the circuit board doesn't matter....just snap it off with a small screwdriver or tweezers.
I noticed Jim didn't post a picture of one with a Q4 chip.
I had one laying around here on my bench so I took a photograph of it and posted.
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I learn something new every day...... :hail:
..... and its way better than yesterday when I was reminded as to why I don't go to Taco Bell. .... :banghead:
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I crush them with hemostats.
Always stay far away from Taco smell. :I_agree_1:
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Ok, looking at the schematic Q2/Q4 and the associated circuitry enables or disables the Coin A photo-transistor. Removing Q2/Q4 would prevent it from disabling the Coin A photo-transistor, so it will always be enabled.
So for those of you who have removed Q2/Q4 does the Input test 10 for Coin A optic work like test 11 and 12 (Coin B & C) optics do? I would think it does. Can someone with a modified optic board verify that?
On an unmodified board test 10 doesn't work. The manual says the door has to be closed and game ready to play for it to work, but then you're not in the test menu anymore. I don't see any way of testing it with the test menu unless I'm missing something?
Here's the schematic that shows Q4. It's Q2 on the original board, but has the same function.
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I just verified with an 1985 IGT S+ Coin-In optic board that has the Q4 chip removed, that all three Input tests change to a zero when I put a Popsicle stick between the infrared beams.
I'm too tired to make a video....I've been watching my favorite NHL hockey team (The Boston Bruins) play late nite West coast games from the Northeast...lol
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Did you just try to play after removing Q4 ?
My understanding is that this “fix” neutralizes the optics board and the popsicle test is no longer valid.
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there is a third version of the optic board, the original one, it has a 555 timer on it, right to the right of the timer is a diode, if you take out the diode you do the same thing as removing Q-2 or Q-4, this is the board with a 5 pin connector.
that circuitry has something to do with matching count pulses ,I think to prevent stringing. it looks at the pulse from the comp. and compares it to something, if more pulses come from the optic than the comp then it shuts down the optics from registering credits.
back in the day, when S plus machines first made it into the home market the casino's would remove the cc-16's ( they were quite expensive ) so we had to come up with a way to put a mechanical acceptor in its place. it wouldn't work because of the interaction with the coin optic board, we figured out how to disable it by doing that modification, then we found a better replacement for the mechanical acceptor by using the IMONEX acceptor, (no moving parts ,so fewer jams) .
Jim
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Did you just try to play after removing Q4 ?
My understanding is that this %u201Cfix%u201D neutralizes the optics board and the popsicle test is no longer valid.
Well, I can assure you that there's no Q4 chip on this board and the display changed from a number one to a zero each and every time I put in the popsicle stick.
Afterwards, I decided to play a bunch of games with it.
It accepted all quarters beautifully as expected.
Below if a photo of the board with the Q4 removed.
I took the whole unit back out to take a photo for everyone....>>>
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Hey Mark, if you insert an extra coin with q4 removed does it go into the hopper and then return it after the spin?
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I don't recall :scratch-head_2: :scratch-head_3:.....lemmie throw it back in. :rotfl:
I'll be back in a few minutes
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Yes...the machine spits out one credit after completing a game when inserting four quarters Sixcardmark.
It will not register more than MAX bet on the display (In my case 3 because I have a 3CM game installed.) when inserting the coins thru the optics with the Q4 removed....the fourth coin get kicked out back into the coin tray by the hopper.
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When the diverter rake is tied back - all coins - pennys, dimes, slugs... go to the hopper and nothing gets rejected.
This is the function of the coin comparator. If you didn't have a CC-16 in place - such as the aforementioned Imonex this would be necessary.
Simple test - drop in a dime - does it go to the tray or to the hopper ?? If it goes to the tray then its working properly.
With a proper working coin in - you can put in 3 coins (assuming a 3 coin game - 2 coins with a 2 coin game, etc) and with most game chips all extra coins should just drop through to the tray. Some game chips accept extra coins and then pay them back after the play (like you described). The exception being a special game chip that accepts "Montana credits" and extra coins are registered as credits.
The coin optics with q2/q4 or not would impact it accepting coins to the hopper - this is just a security test to ensure a coin is passing at the right rate of speed and not being stringed (a coin on a string being pulled back to illegally put multiple credits on the machine). After clipping one of the transistors I could not see how it would magically make the machine pay back extra coins.
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Yes...the machine spits out one credit after completing a game when inserting four quarters Sixcardmark.
It will not register more than MAX bet on the display (In my case 3 because I have a 3CM game installed.) when inserting the coins thru the optics with the Q4 removed....the fourth coin get kicked out back into the coin tray by the hopper.
I thought so. Same with an Imonex I believe. So without q4 the optics can't tell the cc to reject any additional coins so the machine returns them from the hopper after the spin.
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Attached is a noted schematic of the S+/PE+ ABC Optic board. View it at 200% of it's original size to best read the text. Seems like the primary purpose of the additional circuitry is to prevent someone from inserting a valid coin quickly followed by a slug that would make it through the comparitor before the rake resets. When they hit the optics there's a counter that will disable the COIN A and the slug will fall through into the hopper without registering a credit. The text on the schematic details exactly how it works.
So in the OPs case the thought is something has gone wrong with that circuit and Q2/Q4 is holding the COIN A optic disabled preventing the coin from registering a credit when it falls through. Removing Q2/Q4 will enable COIN A optic so when the coin falls through all three optics in the proper direction and speed a credit will be given for it. I get it now.
Thanks everyone for the information and research!
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Simple test - drop in a dime - does it go to the tray or to the hopper ?? If it goes to the tray then its working properly.
I just tried a Canadian quarter...it was rejected to the coin tray.
Clipping off the Q4 chip from the coin-in optics doesn't seem to affect the coin comparitor.
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Clipping off the Q4 chip from the coin-in optics doesn't seem to affect the coin comparitor.
Except the fact that it no longer gets a signal from optic A (always enabled) to reject all coins to tray after 3 coins are inserted in a 3 coin machine, so it eats them, but returns them after the spin from the hopper so nothing is lost.
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Yes...it returns any amount of coins over the MAX bet.
I fooled it once and made it accept 5 coins.
I first put in only one coin, then let four drop thru...after the 3 coin game was complete, the hopper returned the two extra coins - it doesn't keep them on the credit display, like a Montana chip would.
Next week, I'll throw in a Montana chip and see what happens? :rotfl:
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I clipped off the Q2 and it works fine.
Thanks everyone