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Author Topic: bally 929-1 restoration  (Read 305 times)

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Offline Peter321

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bally 929-1 restoration
« on: April 21, 2022, 04:19:52 AM »
hello, this is Peter,
After finalising a bally e model 2407 I have now bought a model 929-1, a continental bingo. Greatful using the doc's on bingo.cdyn.com/slots; in checking the reel wipers I found next to a defect diode on wiper reel 3 a strange issue. On reel 1 it looks like the wipers of reel 4  are placed and on reel 4 the wipers of reel 1 are placed, this according written notes on wipers; also the 5th contact of second wiper running on reel 1 , which runs on 6th row of rivets, has been bent away.
I am busy cleaning and checking and do not know how machine runs, but all your thoughts are very welcome

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2022, 09:12:31 AM »
assuming the index arm is all the way down in the slot on the index disc, then to center the wiper contacts on rivets you loosen the two screws and move the arm as needed.

the trick is making sure the contacts are on the rivets that correspond to the slot depth.  The w-1041-2085-2089.png diagram is the reel wiper blueprint and shows what reel symbol goes with the wiper positions.

the 929 was an unsuccessful game in the usa and most were converted to single coin play or hacked up to make 5 reel free spin "win a car" promo machines.  The non-obvious "did I win" after the reels stopped on a bunch of numbers confused people. 

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2022, 09:44:22 AM »
Thanks Wolftalk,
This is a machine from Belgium, so should be used as original bally bingo and not a modification.
The metal index reels  are the p484 set for 89.24%
Will try to get machine working and maybe then can understand what and why wiperswitch was done

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2022, 04:27:14 PM »
Will try to get machine working and maybe then can understand what and why wiperswitch was done

I completely misread your first post .. sorry.

the wiper arm with the rivetted board with 4 diodes on reel 1 is correct. 

the secondary wiper set (that isn't attached in your pic) would actually work because the wiper finger wiring is the same on the secondary wiper boards for reel 1 and 4, so they are interchangeable.

reels 2, 3, 5  have unique secondary wiper wiring (2 is almost the same, but there's a diode in there).

I'd just swap the boards to the marked wiper arms.

the bent up wiper I'd put back on the rivets.  Is it the wiper that will hit the 18-4 rivet on the secondary board? 

Offline Peter321

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2022, 10:38:24 PM »
Don’t be sorry, I am glad you reacted and maybe I was not very clear.
So the wiper arm running on reel1 board has 2 parts, part with 4 diodes is correct, the other part marked on foto with 929-1. 4 is same as equivalent part on reel board 4 and functions the same.

The bent contact is on wiper arm board with the diodes running on reelboard 1 and is the 5th contact and running on 6th row and if I understand the schematic correctly only 85-6 is not working

In meantime mechanism put back in machine and no spinning, reels are blocked directly again after pull, so for today trying to understand the problem

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2022, 10:56:15 PM »
the reels spin when the "kick" happens.

pulling the handle rotates the main shaft at the back of the reel mech.  It needs to rotate far enough for the latch pawls under the reels hold the index arms away from the spinning reel index discs.

after the kick, the clock is slowing the rotation of the front timing shaft and it's that shaft shifting the link levers that releases the index arms in sequence to stop the reel spin.

if when pulling the handle the reels immediately all latch when the kick happens (no spin), look at the L-shaped stop bracket on the right side of the reel mech at the bottom/back edge.  If that bracket is too far back, the kick happens before the latch pawls grab the arms so the reels get immediately indexed.  You'll still see the clock fan spinning and the links shifting. 

generally the right edge of the stop bracket is flush with the reel mech frame or slighly to the left of the frame edge.

could also be the pawls, link arms, etc. are gunked up and not working right.

lotsa buzzwords in the above that probably make no sense.  On https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ there's  windup_and_kick/ and videos/ folders that may help.  Conveniently, the machine in that stuff is a 929.

Offline Peter321

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2022, 11:20:17 PM »
I thought I had cleaned all moving parts so they move freely now; the stop bracket is not loose and fixed with end levelled with frame as in schematic.
The arm wich is connected to the clock, timing shaft?, also shoots back directly. I think I need to look better at the main shaft and will follow your lead on bingo.cdyn
Thanks

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2022, 07:23:34 PM »
if you hold the clock fan while pulling down the handle, the reels should kick and eventually coast to a stop.

if the reels index immediately after the kick, then:

-  the latch pawls aren't working.  Could be the kick happening too early or the latch pawls/timer links/link levers gunked up.

- the timing shaft in the front is turning when the clock isn't.  Possible causes are worn clock parts, a bad roll pin connecting the clock to the reel mech.

if you can take a video or the left and right sides of the reel mech ... and ideally the bottom ... during a windup/kick and stick it on a file sharing/cloud site, that'd help if you don't find anything.

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2022, 01:22:01 AM »

On your advice I have checked the time arm.
On video you see inside of the clockside. When turning triparm, the time arm on the other side directly springs back. Only few times when moving triparm very slowly, the time arm is a also going back slowly like it should
do. So will start checking clock



https://www.dropbox.com/s/br0u1m8819gyr90/Reelmech%20time%20arm.MOV?dl=0

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2022, 03:15:59 AM »
Checked in meantime the clock and the “paddles” clicking on the gear when time arm is moving back, were totally blocked.
Removed old fat and cleaned and now running smoothly as it should. Next step will be testing with reels attached.
Looks like reel 1and 2 are stopping almost at same time but we will see
Keep you posted

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2022, 12:54:56 AM »
Reels working except at first pull reel 2 is not spinning, next pulls are ok, so must be some lubrication.
Machine is running, function in top seems all working, lights of numbers not working all, so checking wipers and light sockets.
Question: On the payout counter is a switch left under which is closed in start position, but when frame is moving to the left the switch becomes free, but still stays closed, is this correct? Wires are 31 and 2x 93
I cannot find switch in the schematic

Offline wolftalk

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2022, 07:52:07 PM »
Question: On the payout counter is a switch left under which is closed in start position, but when frame is moving to the left the switch becomes free, but still stays closed, is this correct? Wires are 31 and 2x 93
I cannot find switch in the schematic

that's the "open after 20 carriage switch" at schem A38.

I guess the name answers the question :-)

it's not essential that the switch opens on step 21 of the payout counter, but it must stay closed for the first 20 steps.  If it opens a few steps after 20, that should be ok.
 

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2022, 11:49:23 PM »
I missed the switch because I was concentrating on the “a” part of the scheme; I have also found it now and as contact stays always closed, will try to modify so it works as it should,
Thanks for help

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2022, 01:51:23 PM »
I have set switch correct and cleaned contacts of all function in upper cabinet; without hopper installed all light seems to work when using coinswitch to coin uo and pull handle; I noticed 2 clean cut wires , a blue one near plug 2 (from left) and orange near plug 4. on plugs no traces of missing wires. blue one has continuity with wires connected to lampsockets and orange one has continuity with orange wires on relays

are there any ideas why this could have been done?

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2022, 02:00:32 PM »
just saw another blue wire on doorcables, blue marked cable is one piece and other part is going towards door; after door plug direction into the cabinet it looks lik ethis blue wire has been added afterwards.
this blue wire has been connected with each other passing the door plug

what could be the fiction of such a wire?
I am very curious to find out

thanks for reading and helping

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2022, 08:39:03 AM »
Solid blue wire is use for the 6 volt circuits, lights.

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2022, 11:57:35 PM »
Ok, thanks
I saw that also on the cut blue wire near male plug topcabinet, which had continuity with 6volt wiring of sockets.
I have the feeling that it has something to do with jackpot and/bell, as it looks like wiring towards bell has been modified

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2022, 06:36:22 AM »
Neverthelees my search for “loose” ends, I made no progrees on this one and for the time leave it as it looks like it was done on purpose, so machine should be working one way or another

Checked al wiring on cabinet plugs, all seems to be there with correct codes and the plugged males have aal continuity with the females
Coin up is working correctly, and reelnumbers correctly light up on scoreboard; checked al contacts on relays, payout counter and reelmechanism, the all look ok according schematics.
Problem: winning combination mostly does not pay out and sometimes pay out occurs just like that, with amount not predictable
In credit mode register is working and counting, when counting goes higher than 50, machine is shut down completely
In pay mode hopper is rotating and coin get out but also here after few seconds machine is completely out.

In both cases pushing reset bar helps an somtimes hopper or register starts up again
For sure I need to check safey relay
Question: where to look if scorelights on scoreboard give a winner, but payout is not correlated to scoreboard at all
( replaced already 1 defect diode on wiperboard)
Sorry for long story, but I hoping for advice to go forward

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2022, 01:45:09 PM »
the game shuts down when the safety motor runs long enough to open the safety timer switch feeding main power wire 50.

what's supposed to happen is the microswitch that is riding on the payout counter plastic cam (on the ratchet/gear side) opens periodically and removes power from the safety motor, which resets it.

if the cap/diode on the delay relay aren't working tho, when the microswitch opens the delay relay loses power and the safety doesn't reset ... at least not all the way.

the usual problem is the capacitor is bad, but occasionally it's the diode.

if you want to work around the problem, stick paper between the contacts on the delay relay so the safety motor never runs.

incorrect payout amounts - assuming no shutdown during pay - is typically poor wiper->trace contact on the payout counter.

no payout could be the payout counter again or reel wiper board issues.  Easiest thing is get the game working in one coin mode before trying multiple coins.  Since the game has a lot of diodes, you can't pull the reel mech and verify continuity thru the reel wipers out to the correct payout counter wire unless you put the meter in diode mode and measure the diode voltage drop.   You can look at the schem to see which way you need to put on the probes, or just try both ways.

e.g. your goal thru the reels is connect wire 90 to the appropriate payout trace wire ... e.g. a 2 pay is wire 13.  You'd set up a cherry win that wasn't paying and put a probe on wire 13 and other probe on 90.  If you get nothing, swap the probes.  If you still get nothing, the circuit path is broken in the reels  or there's a bad diode in the path.

alternatively, set the meter to measure DC voltage and clip one probe on wire 31-10 and the other probe on the payout counter wire you expect to be powered.   With the hopper and reels in the game, see what voltage you get when you set up a win that should power the trace you put the probe on.  If you don't see around 50VDC, the problem is in the reels or plugs.  If you do see the 50VDC, the problem is almost certainly the payout counter wiper->trace contact if some pays work.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 08:50:53 AM by wolftalk »

Offline Peter321

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2022, 01:31:22 AM »
Hi Wolftalk,

Thanks for helping me back on track, will keep you posted

 

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