New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: DavidBelg on January 04, 2022, 03:33:17 PM
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Here's a nice story.
An older friend of mine has an 889-zzy. He's 67 and in the hobby for years, I'm 40 and not so long in the hobby as he is. :Tongue_Out:
He bought the machine 15 years ago after the previous owner had died. The machine has fruit rolls but a jackpots only reel glass.
On winning positions, the machine paid but kept paying.... So confused by all this... the machine stood there.... as the 'masterpiece' in a 20 machine collection but non functional and not knowing what was the problem, wrong reels, wrong glass, wrong everything?
I recently told him, you really should look at that nice machine and figure out what's the problem. So I spend a few hours on it and of course (quite easy actually), the hopper was not stepping up. After some adjustments it did and paid out correctly on all fruit combinations that you can imagine! So conclusion, he has the wrong reel glass and a working machine after 15 years!
Only major problem now that is left is this:
From time to time, the machine stops paying (even sometimes mid in a 2 cherry pay). It pays a part of the coins and the machine stops, but all lights remain lit so no safetime timer isssue I think. Unplugging and reinstalling the hopper or pushing the "Pay reset' button on the hopper fixes this and it pays the rest of the coins. See picture for that button. When the machine is in this state, it does not accept new coins and the reel glass (insert coins, coin accepted, winner paid are all out).
What could cause this? I am not familiar with the "pay reset" button or logic.
Thank you!
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you win some kind of prize ... my listing ends at 889-ZZX :-)
if the ZZY was made much later, you may have the hopper cutoff relay stuff in there. See the circuit on page 23 of the 5000 manual (https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_manuals/)
it's similar to the safety circuit, but responds very fast. It is designed to prevent people from sticking a wire up the coin outlet chute and holding up the coin out roller arm so the payout counter doesn't step.
if the hopper switches aren't closing every 300 milliseconds (time it takes for a couple of coins to eject), the capacitor discharges and the hopper cutoff relay loses power, causing the payout relay to unpower.
the hopper cutoff circuit was mostly used on high denomination or large hopper capacity games.
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Thank you so much! This will help me a lot in solving this issue. I don't have the machine with me now but will pass the info to the owner or take this info with me next time when I am there.
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I've visited my friend today and checked the hopper.
I've verified the switche on top of the assy (big black microswitch), I've verified the two leaf switches on the stepper. I've verified the roller arm switch on the plastic wheel.
All test ok.
I've noticed that the small roller switch is wired that way that's open when pressed and closed when it's not pressed by the wheel. Shouldn't this be the other way around.
Problem however still remains, COuld it be that theh capacitor got out of spec?
See pictures attached of the hopper.
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the microswitch on the payout counter in your second pic is in the safety delay circuit. A problem with that one would cause game shutdown.
the microswitch in your first pic is the hopper pulse switch in the hopper cutoff relay circuit. It is normally closed and briefly opens when a coin goes under the roller.
my description wasn't very good.
the purpose of the hopper cutoff relay circuit is to detect if someone is holding the roller up with a wire thru the coin exit hole to the coin tray. If they are, the microswitch stays open, the capacitor discharges and the hopper cutoff relay loses power. That turns off the payout relay, which turns off the hopper motor.
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option 1
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you could disable the circuit ... for home use, it's not needed. To disable the circuit your would:
1] remove the hopper cutoff relay
2] jumper the terminals on the socket that is in the circuit to power the payout relay.
below is how the thing worked on the 1088. Doesn't look like some of your wire colors are the same. You'd want to jumper the switch that is highlighted in yellow closed (directly connect one side of the payout relay to wire 70). You could also do some rewiring to the relay sockets to connect wire 70 directly to the payout relay coil.
if it's not clear, need better pics of the wiring on the back of the payout relay and hopper cutoff relay. The coils inside the relays are on terminals 13 and 14 of the relay case.
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option 2
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if you want the circuit to work, then yes, a problem with the relay, capacitor, diode or resistor will cause a problem.
test 1: look at the hopper cutoff relay
turn on game and push the pay reset button. The hopper cutoff relay should power and stay powered until the power is turned off.
tap on the hopper cutoff relay and make sure it stays powered. If tapping causes it to unpower, could be a poor socket connection or dirty switch inside.
test 2: jumper the hopper pulse microswitch always closed
if the problem goes away, the microswitch is flaky
test 3: swap the two relays next to the reset button
if the problem changes, it's probably the relay. You may be able to open it to clean switches or move wiring to unused switches (if any).
if none of that makes a difference, it's probably faster to just replace the diode and capacitor. Inspect the resistor to make sure it's not burnt and the wiring/leads look ok. You can also measure it to make sure it's not way off 47 ohms +/- 10%
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Aha! Now I understand better. The switch was connected differently and in normally open, so the capacitor got only power when a coin was under the pawl.
I'll ask him to relocate the lugs at the switch first and test again!
Thank you again for the help and time to write this up so detailed. Otherwise it would be a long way search...
I swapped both relais already yesterday but that didn't change anything.
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Aha! Now I understand better. The switch was connected differently and in normally open, so the capacitor got only power when a coin was under the pawl.
that would do it :-)
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And this solved the issue!
Wolftalk you rock! Thank you again (in his name) :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: