NEWBY ..S+ red white blue that dosen't register coin credits

[jay]

Did you just try to play after removing Q4 ?

My understanding is that this “fix” neutralizes the optics board and the popsicle test is no longer valid.

[Jim]

there is a third version of the optic board, the original one, it has a 555 timer on it, right to the right of the timer is a diode, if you take out the diode you do the same thing as removing Q-2 or Q-4,  this is the board with a 5 pin connector.

that circuitry has something to do with matching count pulses ,I think to prevent stringing. it looks at the pulse from the comp. and compares it to something, if more pulses come from the optic than the comp then it shuts down the optics from registering credits.

back in the day, when S plus machines first made it into the home market the casino's would remove the cc-16's ( they were quite expensive ) so we had to come up with a way to put a mechanical acceptor in its place. it wouldn't work because of the interaction with the coin optic board, we figured out how to disable it by doing that modification, then we found a better replacement for the mechanical acceptor by using the IMONEX acceptor, (no moving parts ,so fewer jams) .

Jim 

[Stayouttadabunker]

Did you just try to play after removing Q4 ?

My understanding is that this %u201Cfix%u201D neutralizes the optics board and the popsicle test is no longer valid.

Well, I can assure you that there's no Q4 chip on this board and the display changed from a number one to a zero each and every time I put in the popsicle stick.

Afterwards, I decided to play a bunch of games with it.
It accepted all quarters beautifully as expected.
Below if a photo of the board with the Q4 removed.
I took the whole unit back out to take a photo for everyone....>>>

[sixcardmark]

Hey Mark, if you insert an extra coin with q4 removed does it go into the hopper and then return it after the spin?

[Stayouttadabunker]

I don't recall  .....lemmie throw it back in. 

I'll be back in a few minutes

[Stayouttadabunker]

Yes...the machine spits out one credit after completing a game when inserting four quarters Sixcardmark.

It will not register more than MAX bet on the display (In my case 3 because I have a 3CM game installed.) when inserting the coins thru the optics with the Q4 removed....the fourth coin get kicked out back into the coin tray by the hopper.

[jay]

When the diverter rake is tied back - all coins - pennys, dimes, slugs... go to the hopper and nothing gets rejected.
This is the function of the coin comparator.  If you didn't have a CC-16 in place - such as the aforementioned Imonex this would be necessary.

Simple test - drop in a dime - does it go to the tray or to the hopper ?? If it goes to the tray then its working properly.

With a proper working coin in - you can put in 3 coins (assuming a 3 coin game - 2 coins with a 2 coin game, etc) and with most game chips all extra coins should just drop through to the tray. Some game chips accept extra coins and then pay them back after the play (like you described).  The exception being a special game chip that accepts "Montana credits" and extra coins are registered as credits.

The coin optics with q2/q4 or not would impact it accepting coins to the hopper - this is just a security test to ensure a coin is passing at the right rate of speed and not being stringed (a coin on a string being pulled back to illegally put multiple credits on the machine). After clipping one of the transistors I could not see how it  would magically make the machine pay back extra coins.

[sixcardmark]

Yes...the machine spits out one credit after completing a game when inserting four quarters Sixcardmark.

It will not register more than MAX bet on the display (In my case 3 because I have a 3CM game installed.) when inserting the coins thru the optics with the Q4 removed....the fourth coin get kicked out back into the coin tray by the hopper.

I thought so.  Same with an Imonex I believe.  So without q4 the optics can't tell the cc to reject any additional coins so the machine returns them from the hopper after the spin.

[Tilt]

Attached is a noted schematic of the S+/PE+ ABC Optic board.  View it at 200% of it's original size to best read the text.  Seems like the primary purpose of the additional circuitry is to prevent someone from inserting a valid coin quickly followed by a slug that would make it through the comparitor before the rake resets.  When they hit the optics there's a counter that will disable the COIN A and the slug will fall through into the hopper without registering a credit.  The text on the schematic details exactly how it works.

So in the OPs case the thought is something has gone wrong with that circuit and Q2/Q4 is holding the COIN A optic disabled preventing the coin from registering a credit when it falls through.  Removing Q2/Q4 will enable COIN A optic so when the coin falls through all three optics in the proper direction and speed a credit will be given for it.  I get it now.

Thanks everyone for the information and research!

[Stayouttadabunker]

Simple test - drop in a dime - does it go to the tray or to the hopper ?? If it goes to the tray then its working properly.

I just tried a Canadian quarter...it was rejected to the coin tray.

Clipping off the Q4 chip from the coin-in optics doesn't seem to affect the coin comparitor.

[sixcardmark]

Clipping off the Q4 chip from the coin-in optics doesn't seem to affect the coin comparitor.

Except the fact that it no longer gets a signal from optic A (always enabled) to reject all coins to tray after 3 coins are inserted in a 3 coin machine, so it eats them, but returns them after the spin from the hopper so nothing is lost.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Yes...it returns any amount of coins over the MAX bet.
I fooled it once and made it accept 5 coins.

I first put in only one coin, then let four drop thru...after the 3 coin game was complete, the hopper returned the two extra coins - it doesn't keep them on the credit display, like a Montana chip would.

Next week, I'll throw in a Montana chip and see what happens? 

[nacdale]

I clipped off the Q2 and it works fine.

Thanks everyone