New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: rjpohl on November 03, 2016, 09:36:17 AM
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For the most part the machine pays out correctly but from time to time the following 2 errors arise:
Problem 1: the hopper will pay out slighly higher or lower than payout should be (example on a 40 payout it may give 38 or 41 etc) The actual payout of coins does match the amount on the counter.
Problem 2: Doesn't make payout when it should (no coins at all). I did notice that the winner paid light did not go out from the previous win.
thanks
Bob
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There are wipers on the hopper that determine payout. Every time a coin clicks the microswitch on its way out, it advances the wiper assembly 1 click. If the blade is bent weird, this sort of thing would happen.
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You may not have enough tension on your 100 tooth paygear spiral spring. 2 & 1/2 turns is normal.
2. Sounds like hopper not resetting if winner pd lite stays on. Chk zero sw and your B sw.
Always look at your payboard fingers when mispay-- if not reset they'll not be at zero
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I added a turn to spring.
Payout meter was on 0
I played and got a 10 coin win, hopper paid out 11, winner paid light came on
inserted another coin and pulled handle, the winner light stayed on and meter did not go back to 0
I manually reset the payout wheel by depressing the plunger , winner paid light went off but counter remained on 11
I played a few more times and had to manually reset hopper payout wheel when there was a payout to get winner paid light off (meter never resets).
the pay out meter advance each time there is a payout but never goes back to 0, it's on 64 now.
Not sure what's going on because the winner paid light would go off and the meter would reset before, the only problem then was an extraa coin paid out on payouts (usually one or two extra and payouts of 20 or 40).
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Chk zero sw & your B sw... You will probably notice 2 separate B sws? One resets payboard, t'other resets meter.
Also try 1/4 turn on your spring, a full turn will probably bind up
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Reno,
both B switches are in the open position and winner paid light is on. Is open the correct position for winner paid light to be off?
Also not sure where zero switch is loacated.
thanks
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OK I think I located zero switch, is it the horizional switch in this pic? It is in open position and winner paid light is on.
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Zero sw is on your payboard
Push back timing bar above clock and verify both B sws close.
Zero & B sws turn on payboard reset solenoid. Solenoid linkage opens winner paid lite switch. You'll see switch if you look at the linkage--behind payboard.
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yes both Bswitches do close during the travel of the timing bar.
Sorry but I'm confussed because I just don't know the proper name for the parts.
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I'm not getting anywhere so I thought maybe I tried to tell you guys ezactly what I see happening:
The insert coin and coin accepted lights work like they should.
i coin up and trip handle, reels start and stop as they should.
if I hit a win the hopper starts and pays out.
at the end of the payout the winner paid light comes on and the winner paid meter increases.
Now here's where I need help.
Should the winner paid light go off and the coins paid meter go back to zero when the next coin is inserted or when handle is pulled or when reels stop???
I have found that after I complete a spin (winner paid ia still on). It will go off if I paly several more spins or if trip one of the B switches and the winner paid will go out, if the trip the other B switch the meter does not go back to zero.
what baffles me is it was playing great just a extra coin payout every once in a while.
Thanks for your help.
Bob
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Clean your zero and B sws & make sure they make good contact when closed. You should see them 'push' against the other side of switch.
Also trace the non-blue side of your winner pd lite (note color of wire) back to the winner paid lite leaf switch (behind the payboard) and clean it & make sure it opens fully after you push the payboard reset coil/solenoid.
Work the payboard step up and payboard reset coils & verify that leaf switch controlled by the linkage opens & closes.
If your payboard resets after handle pull (payfingers go back to 6:00 position), then most probably that win pd leaf switch on back of payboard is adjusted too close & is not opening fully when it latches out.
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I've been cleaning the contacts with a piece of a business card, should I use rubbing alcohol or something else?
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Sure...
You might check them with your ohm meter.
Touch the solder end, not the leaf part to get a true reading.
If they all check good, then trace from point to point along the circuits.
Follow the wire colors.
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I've cleaned the zero and B switches.
if I manually engage the reset plunger on the payout counter the winner paid meter goes out. Can you tell me if the winner paid light is supost to go out when you insert a coin or does it go out when you pull handle?
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After you pull the handle & before the reels index. Same with your win meter. You can test that with jumpers to see if it resets and steps.
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Nice clean photo of the zero switch. Was checking to see if the little rubber stopper was gummed up.
But it's clean, when ther're gummed up the switch will stick occasionally.
Also check to see if the green armature for the zero switch is moving freely on the shaft.
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As clean as the top of the payboard is
Did you clean it Bob
I ask because the bottom has the lines on it from the wiper fingers
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Jon, I don't remember doing any real cleaning on the payboard. The original problem with this machine was related to the reels not spinning freely and the third reel never stopped. I started another post and with the help of Amechanic I got that problem resolved quickly. After that I played it off and on for several days with the only problem being an overpay of 1 or 2 coins now and then. Then one morning when I was playing it I noticed that the meter (that shows amount won) was not going back to zero and then the winner paid light was not going off after a win (I think it should go off when you pull the handle on the very next play. I've also noticed that the reset plunger does not activate and the wipers are stopped in the position of the picture above. If I activate the reset plunger by hand the wipers move to position at 6 o'clock and the winner paid light goes off, the win meter does not zero out. I've attached a few other pics I have and can post more if you need to see a certain item.
Again thanls to Old Reno and everyone else who's been trying to guide me through this, my strength is more mechanical items and I'm very weak in the electrical area (so please be patient with me, this is a beautiful slot that desires a better life!!).
Bob
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The 1088 I have does the same thing the win meter keeps adding up for awhile then resets.
When the machine gets completely warmed up it works okay. Try turning the machine on and let it set for 20 minutes before playing.
Try manually stepping the payout step up unit a few times, watch how it returns. Could be sluggish and or not returning all the way. Try to get some lubericant onto the center axis. A cautionary note do not use any harsh chemicals for cleaning the spiral cam. Even some contact cleaners will melt the plastic cam. Check to see if the spiral cam carriage moves freely, that's the part that looks like a sling shot.
Most likely you could manually disinguage the step up lever and the reset mechanism and turn the cam by hand. I would do this on my personal machines, but use your own judgement as I wouldn't want you to damage your machine on my advice.
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DavidLee, I removed the spiral cam carraige (sling shot looking piece), cleaned and lubed it, not the winner light is going off on next spin! the meter has also went back to zero every time!
I'll play it a little more the next couple of days and let you know how it performs.
thanks a million
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Glad you got the machine in good running order. I need to do some monthly maintenance on my 1088.
Middle reel is indexing right away and got to get pay meter to reset.
Photo shows 1088 on the left and the other is 1090. The 1088 is like new condition, had a hard to find short kept blowing fuses so I imagine it sat for years. Last year of the EM machines 1980.
Sorry for the sideways photo 1088 on the bottom now!
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Test Report (after playing and setting up payouts):
It appears to working great, all lights etc but on 40 coin payouts it usually comes up a few short. It may give out 37, 38 or 39 (winner paid meter and actual payout of coins match). Reno had said that I might need to adjust the 100 tooth wheel spring 1/4 of a turn. From what I can read in other post that means move the short end of the spring to the next hole. Can this be completed without disassembling?
thanks
Bob
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This only happens on the 40 payout? Is the meter and coin count the same?
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Payout of 10 and 20 are good (don't remember any over/under pays)
I ran several payout of 40 an a few paid out 41 (meter matches payout)
I ran 3 pays of 50 and 1 of 100, the 50's paid 52 each time (meter 52), the 100 paid out 102 (meter 102)
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Check the hopper coin shute after the pivot roller, this area can get gummed up with oil and dirt.
Coins can get stuck in there causing a short pay and then an over pay on the next payout.
Also if the payout step up unit is out of adjustment, the contacts will stay engage to long.
On the payout step up unit add a shim between the rubber bumper stop on to where it contacts the zero switch armature. Maybe 2 layers of electrical tape. This will add the slightest bit of travel to the wipers causing them to leave the contact strip earlier. Test it this way as to not loose the original stop adjustment if there is no difference on the payouts.
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What pays are the outer wipers for?
Another thing to check or confirm is the the outer wipers are off their tabs just before reaching end of their pay.
Example, for 100 pay, maybe around 80-85 coins paid the outer wipers should come off the 100 tab.
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Did you try adding 2 layers of electrical tape between the spiral cam stop and the zero switch armature?
Its possible that the contacts that ride the 40, 50 and 100 payout strips have been bent to make better contact.
Thus slightly shorting the length enough to payout extra coins.
Manually advance the payout unit 40 times, then check for continuity between the contacts and the corresponding metal strip.
There should be NON, the contacts should of ran past the strip causing the hopper to stop.
If you get continuity, move the meter probe to were the copper blade / contact has a kink in it, then lightly press with the probe.
See if that makes a difference in continuity.
NOTE this is how I would eliminate the possibility of bent contact blades or a least help narrow down the problem.
Please use your own judgement and comfort level when preforming this test.
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I didn't add the tape but I did clean and tinker with the contact blades. The last 10 to 12 payouts of 40 were correct. I had noticed that when it under paid the hopper would start back up if I touched the spiral wheel which moved the outer wipers.
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Okay, the spiral cam stop might need to be adjusted down a bit. It doesn't take much, mark the metal stop holder if you can.
Loosen the nut give the stop a half turn to extend the down.
Or just run the machine for awhile with the tape, checking the payouts a few times then adjust the stop.
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Thought I'd update the post after playing slot for several days.
Everything seems to be working just fine, all payouts have been dead on. Unless it really starts messing up I'm going to leave it as is.
thanks for all the help and advise.
Bob