New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S2000 and Vision Games => Topic started by: foster on May 21, 2014, 01:02:00 PM
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I do not know if this was ever asked, and I have never seen the inside of a S2000 slant top to figure it out myself.
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Why do you think it needs to know? :Scratch-Head:
Are you asking because during setup it asks for machine configuration, i.e. upright or slant top?
I would naturally assume so the reel know if they are installed in an upright or slant top machine. The pulse signal from the reels with count the stops and you will want those stops to show correctly if the machine is a slant or upright
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It's a key chip menu option, 7.1.? And the reels have to be set for slant top use also I believe
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I do remember that the reel shelves in S2000 slant tops are at a angle as well, and there might be some adjustment to where the reels stop.
But when you clear a machine or change enough chips etc, etc, it will show machine type mismatch so there is something electronically different between a upright and slant top other than the pull handle and related parts.
I know the setting is in the key chip menu, but you cant take a mpu from an upright and pop it in a slant top or it will show machine type mismatch.
So I am guessing the MPU can detect cabinet type somehow, and I want to know what it is detecting.
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Foster, I'm not sure the MPU can tell you unless it has been previously configured & the mother board memory retains that info. It's configured after a clear beacuse the backlit reel lamps are not only physically repositioned but Line 1 becomes Line 3 & vice versa as the reels are not installed in an upright position on a slant. Ever notice that the reel # decals are positioned upside down on reels that came from a slant? Selecting slant or upright after a clear makes the game funtion properly according to your cabinet style. When using slant reels in an upright you usually have to swap the line 1 & line 3 light connectors.
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Swapping MPUs among like cabinets will throw the error as well, so it's not the diff in cabinets that is causes the error. Couldnt it just be the fact the cabinet type has not been confirmed or specified?
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Another interesting fact is that non backlit baskets are either marked ST or UP & are not interchangeable.
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I know about the MPU swap error, that occurs.
Yes the MPU can tell if it is in an upright cabinet or a slant top cabinet.
I just did a key chip and changed cabinet type to slant top, it does not like it, so it does know the difference between the cabinets.
How does it detect cabinet type?
Is what my original question is.
RB:
The upright non back lit reels are used in S2000 either upright or slant top.
The S/T marked reels are for S+ slant tops only, not usable in S2000 (unless you want your reel strips not lined up correctly)
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Door optics signals maybe? Don't slant tops have more door open sensors? The MPU would search for signals depending on cabinet type because it knows what ones are open or closed when it's programmed properly
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Slant top wiring diagram would be helpful.
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I'm new here and new at slots, but since we are guessing, my guess would be, it is in the harness, like the Pac Man game for instance, it has to
know whether it is in an upright or a sit down cabinet because if a sit down the 2nd player must be flipped on the monitor, it is just a wire in the harness pulling a connection low I think. Cheers
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If the MPU could detect it then it wouldn't need to ask you if it's a slant top or upright during config. It would already know the answer.
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Like I stated in a prior post it can detect the difference and will show an error or tilt and not function until you enable the key chip menu and change it to the correct cabinet setting.
Once I see the wiring diagram for a S2000 Slant top I suspect I can figure out what it is using to determine the cabinet type.
As for it changing to the correct cabinet style and configuring itself correctly might be gaming commission thing.
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I agree with biggerhammer if the machine already new it would not need to ask. The errors you are getting are probably part of the reason why the machine needs to know wether or not it is an upright or a slant top. Any time you change a board or chips, you get a RAM error, and the machine does a partial reset or clear and can loos data such as machine type.
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Foster, Here is a conclusive test for you.
Sounds like you have both an upright and slant top machine to test with.
Set up the slant top machine and play a few games. Now remove the motherboard and CPU and install it in an upright machine. Just make sure the machines are identical just different cabinet styles. For instance, a coinless machine to a coinless machine. Same type of display, printer and bill acceptor or any another type of Netplex or Senet peripheral device. If going from coin in and a hopper to a coinless machine the test would be invalid.
If that machine doesn't boot up, play and show the same credits that you had on the slant top machine, I'll be a believer. The reels will not show in the window of the upright machine correctly because it still thinks it's in a slant top cabinet, but it will still have the same credits and play as usual.
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Foster, Here is a conclusive test for you.
Sounds like you have both an upright and slant top machine to test with.
Set up the slant top machine and play a few games. Now remove the motherboard and CPU and install it in an upright machine. Just make sure the machines are identical just different cabinet styles. For instance, a coinless machine to a coinless machine. Same type of display, printer and bill acceptor or any another type of Netplex or Senet peripheral device. If going from coin in and a hopper to a coinless machine the test would be invalid.
If that machine doesn't boot up, play and show the same credits that you had on the slant top machine, I'll be a believer. The reels will not show in the window of the upright machine correctly because it still thinks it's in a slant top cabinet, but it will still have the same credits and play as usual.
i dont think the test would be that simple s2000s have an eprom on the motherboard/backplane that gets written to when you setup the machine i also know that some (maybe not all) mpus have a serial identification chip on them. if that id number on the chip is written to the motherboard eprom it will cause an error if you just swap the board. if you run this test i would try moving the small motherboard eprom with the mpu.
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I know about the Serial EEPROM on the motherboard.
The S+ even has one on its motherboard and as far as I know other machines of the S2000, S+ era by other companies (Bally, WMS, etc) have a similar chip on their back planes.
As far as I know it only contains the last written accounting data and machine settings, and any history you can read via the menus
Who knows if the current credits or cash value get written to it or not.
I don't have a slant top, but changing machine type to slant in a upright cabinet causes the machine type mismatch error.
Someone that has a S2000 slant top wiring diagram care to share it, I would be able to determine how the MPU detects it.
It could be as simple as a jumper in the Cabinet I/O harness or even in the door I/O harness.
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i dont think the test would be that simple s2000s have an eprom on the motherboard/backplane that gets written to when you setup the machine i also know that some (maybe not all) mpus have a serial identification chip on them. if that id number on the chip is written to the motherboard eprom it will cause an error if you just swap the board. if you run this test i would try moving the small motherboard eprom with the mpu.
I know the motherboard has an E-square chip.
That's why I said to swap both the Motherboard and the CPU from the machine already setup.
Foster, Here is a conclusive test for you....
Now remove the motherboard and CPU and install it in an upright machine.
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my background is in computer repair and motherboard is the main board and cpu is the main chip on the motherboard. so i guess when you said motherboard and cpu i just took it as you were saying just the mpu.
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We call the backplane the mother board because that's what everything plugs into and the MPU would be a daughter board to that along with the IO cards, back lite controller and peripheral devices. They either plug in directly or by way of a wiring harness due to space constraints, but it's still the central point. Same way they did it in LCD and DLP projection TV's. They're just words, but it does create confusion across different trades. We had a heated discussion over this once on the old site and it got a little comical at times
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So I guess if you are getting a machine type mismatch then the machine dose know at least that it isn't the right type. The most obvious difference I can think of is that slant tops don't have a pull arm. Maybe try to clear and set to slant top with the pull arm unplugged or the whole inner I/O card. It has to be in the wiring harness I would think if all the other components are interchangeable. Or something to do with the door optics witch brings me to another question, Why is it that all of the newer(after 1999) game kings and I games don't have optics yet the slot machines do? And now that I think about it they don't ask if they are slant top or upright. And of coarse game kings don't have pull arms. There is only a mechanical adjustment to the reels, to switch from upright to slant top on an s2000, so I don't think it would have anything to do with that. Also maybe try going to error accounting.
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The S2000 does its own adjustment of reel position depending on how the mpu is configured unlike the S+ which has different baskets for upright and slant top
You are correct that it is in the wiring harness, you cant remove the Cabinet I/O
Cabinet I/O is the interface between mpu and hopper, bell, physical meters, back light controller for slant top and upright and the handle for upright
I don't think an extra optic or switch would trigger the fact it is a different cabinet.
Think about the signal when the switch open or the optic are not aligned both would be logic 0.
It has to be a jumper that creates a logic 1 into the mpu at all times.
Guess I will study the MPU connectors for 50x boards it might give me a clue since I still do not see a slant top wiring diagram around.
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The most obvious difference I can think of is that slant tops don't have a pull arm. Maybe try to clear and set to slant top with the pull arm unplugged or the whole inner I/O card.
as stated by foster the cabinet I/O card is needed for a lot of things you will get a few errors if its removed. as for the arm if its an normally open connection it card wont be able to see that its gone.
It has to be in the wiring harness I would think if all the other components are interchangeable. Or something to do with the door optics witch brings me to another question, Why is it that all of the newer(after 1999) game kings and I games don't have optics yet the slot machines do?
igt has done a lot of strange things in there machines. the desision to remove the door optics could be something as simple as cost. or they couldent get them to work reliably with that type of door. most of the i game chassis i have worked on the door shuts hard and i can see that being a problem for a glass optic.
And now that I think about it they don't ask if they are slant top or upright. And of coarse game kings don't have pull arms. There is only a mechanical adjustment to the reels, to switch from upright to slant top on an s2000, so I don't think it would have anything to do with that. Also maybe try going to error accounting.
the s2000 has to adjust the stepper stops based on the change in angle of the mounting play on an igame you have a monitor so the machine doesn't care what angle its at.
my best bet would be it has to deal with the information saved on the motherboard eprom, or it can some how tell based on the changes done to the reel stops and the pulses that come out of the reel optics.
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By mechanical adjustment I was just referring to the reel lamps. I still don't quite understand why they even bother to put door optics on the s2000 and not the gameking. I never worked in a casino but I have heard people say that it's a big no no to remove them in the casino but it seems to be perfectly OK to leave them out on the gamekings. It also looks like gamekings have a spot for a watch dog battery but I have never seen one on a gameking board.
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I still don't quite understand why they even bother to put door optics on the s2000 and not the gameking. I never worked in a casino but I have heard people say that it's a big no no to remove them in the casino but it seems to be perfectly OK to leave them out on the gamekings. It also looks like gamekings have a spot for a watch dog battery but I have never seen one on a gameking board.
Maybe because there are no mechanical reels on a GK that can be tampered with or manipulated if the door is unlocked?? I don't know, just a thought.
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I was under the assumption that the reels where more or less just a peripheral device, to display what the MPU had generated, and manually moving the reels would just give you a tilt.
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Yes the Reels are positioned by the MPU and if you move them or something causes them to go too slow or stop before they are supposed to stop you will get a reel tilt.
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may have accidentally figured this out yesterday. i was working on a machine with a 10 button deck and some of the buttons wont work. well trying to force an error i pulled the 10 button card and insted of getting the 10 button card missing error i was expecting i got a machine type mismatch. so i put the board back in and when the machine booted the error went away. inside the input tests for the door one of the button options was labeled something around 1 if upright 0 if slant. so my guess is its one of the jumpers on the bottom of the door io card sockets.
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I think you are correct and thanks.
I do not know why I didnt notice the jumper in the 7 button deck wiring diagram.
It's from Hold5 (IN4) to ground
And there are two additional jumpers in the 6 button wiring diagram that is part of a 10 button deck. I don't know how I missed them
for the following buttons Change, Cash Out, Spin Reels/Repeat Bet, Max Bet and the 2 switches tucked away on my deck See Pays/Help, Select Credit Value for multi-denom
They are from B0 to ground and B2 to ground
Now to figure out a non destructive test
I don't want to cut the jumpers or damage anything.
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i wouldn't modify a working machine to test a curiosity but you can check in your input test menu one of the inputs is labeled.
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I just did a test
Power off
Pulled main door I/O card
Power on and wait for machine to boot
AND the result is "Machine Type Mismatch"
I suspect the 2 additional jumpers in the 6 button wiring that comes as part of the 10 button deck signal the machine to expect the 10 button portion of the deck.