New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: shortrackskater on August 06, 2018, 04:37:49 PM
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I just picked it up today. I need to replace the power cord before I plug it in. It's an E series and I've never had one. The previous owner said it worked but has sat in his amazingly fancy game room that's mostly empty now. The house is for sale ... asking just $2,500,000!
I'll post again soon as I plug it in and see what blows up happens.
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You know, if you'd bought that house they'd probably given you that slot machine. just saying....... :wave:
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You know, if you'd bought that house they'd probably given you that slot machine. just saying....... :wave:
I need to save up just a little more, like maybe $2,499,500.
So yep it's an E series. When I got there and peeked inside I saw the circuit boards but this was a done deal since I bought this machine and a Mills (yes Mills) video poker machine for $250 (package deal!).
I tried to cycle the machine and it was jamming and the handle wouldn't return. I put some pressure on it and it sort of ratcheted back up. The next cycle it went down farther but the reel mechanism did nothing.
Anyway... long story short, I finally noticed the damn handle return cylinder was gummed up with the black stick mess. I think I'm losing my mind as I've helped people with this exact problem and wasn't seeing the obvious. Hopefully my "slight forcing" hasn't damaged anything. I took the f-ing thing out and had to whack on the housing with my mallet as I sprayed WD40 to loosen that shit inside. It's unbelievable how strong that gunk holds and jams the piston head inside. Someone ought to develop it as an adhesive!
I finally got it free and, in the process, managed to break both left side tabs where the screws go through. I should just order a new one but I'm going to see if the screws will hold it enough. Now I need to go get some tar remover at the hardware or auto parts store to get that crap out of the head. :banghead:
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Beautiful machine! The color and design of the belly glass looks as if it was made to match the rest of the machine! And I love that casino logo artwork!
Hope you can easily get it to work!
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Mark.. I have found the rubbing alcohol works great to loosen that sticky crap... I can find you a new air cylinder housing if you need one.. That machines a steal for what you paid.. Seems like all the good deals are out West.. :banghead:
That looks like it's going to have the E1000 MPU board. Check the battery on the ram board for signs of acid leakage. It will kill the ram board and the header pin connectors on the ram board.. I here if you need help getting it going :cool_thumb_up:
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Thanks Gary ... I'll PM you soon.
Yes basically I paid $125 for it I guess! People out here nearly give them away. I got a nearly new condition s2000 for $100 once with matching wood stand. :propeller:
I'll try the alcohol. I'm amazed how "STUCK-ON" that crap is! :hissyfit:
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another good product to remove the rubber residue is GREASED LIGHTNING available Home Depot and Lowes.
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another good product to remove the rubber residue is GREASED LIGHTNING available Home Depot and Lowes.
Thanks Barry! I tried "Goo Gone" it it didn't do anything. Gary suggest the isopropyl alcohol and worked. I'll still get some Greased Lightning for future "messes."
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Last night I got off that horrible "tar" (more like tar that's 1000 times stronger than regular tar) off the piston head. I filed a burr off the piston head and applied just a small amount of axle grease around it. I cleaned the cylinder and put the head back on the rod and it seems to glide through with "good resistance." I mounted it back on the side of the reel assembly even with the left-side tabs broken. There was enough for the screws to hold it in place. The right-side tabs were fine. I reinstalled the reel assembly and it seems to work fine. The handle pulls properly and returns smoothly.
The machine still didn't work so the next logical step for me was, of course, to fix the lights! :Tongue_Out:
All the bulbs were bad as well as two starters. Thankfully I've got all sorts of florescent bulbs and starters in my stock. The machine is happily lit now.
When I power up now I get an error code 6 and according to the manual that's memory test failure which (I'm guessing/hoping) it's that piggybacked RAM board on the MPU board. The battery is dead. I left the machine on for about a half hour and checked again powered off and still had no voltage. Gary... is that a nicad? I think you told me... I'll poke around the E-series section and see but if anyone knows offhand, please let me know.
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Take a look at that piggy-back board that has the cmos ram and battery. Check the connector pins on it that are used to plug into the main mpu board. See if any of those pins have cracked solder joints where they are soldered on the piggy-back board. But the error might just be because of the dead battery. I think the original ones were nicad but someone posted a way to use a different battery.
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I did. It was a pain to realign them to get it back on.
I just saw a reference to the post on using a different battery but don't see the actual post yet. I have plenty of 3.6 cells for the s plus. I'd love to use one of those.
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Ok I just found a HUGE thread on this machine and some problems that I may be having. Before I post any more here, I'm going to read through this and follow the steps especially in regard to those connectors.
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=5843.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=5843.0)
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Usually a 6 means a bad ram chip or chip socket. Look at the 5101 ram chips and sockets on the Ram Board for and green corrosion. It’s a very common problem with them mounted so close to the battery. I have also found that a bad power supply will trigger this code too. Try unplugging and plugging the PS connector a couple times. Look for any burnt plug connections. You might want to pull the PS and look at the solder joints on the plug connection. Very common for them to crack causing a cold solder joint. You can convert from a rechargeable AA battery to Lithium, but you need to do a board Mod if removing a resistor and installing a diode to stop the battery charging circuit.
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I did. It was a pain to realign them to get it back on.
I just saw a reference to the post on using a different battery but don't see the actual post yet. I have plenty of 3.6 cells for the s plus. I'd love to use one of those.
I think that orig nicad battery is 4.5 volts (check the writing on it). If so and if you sub another battery or a battery pack you will want to keep that in mind. The mod adds a diode so the battery voltage gets dropped about .7 volts by the diode, so the cmos ram chip would get less than 3 volts if you install a 3.6 volt battery.
Can you post a photo of the Mills video poker machine (maybe in a different thread). I didn't know that Mills did anything recent like that.
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I did. It was a pain to realign them to get it back on.
I just saw a reference to the post on using a different battery but don't see the actual post yet. I have plenty of 3.6 cells for the s plus. I'd love to use one of those.
I think that orig nicad battery is 4.5 volts (check the writing on it). If so and if you sub another battery or a battery pack you will want to keep that in mind. The mod adds a diode so the battery voltage gets dropped about .7 volts by the diode, so the cmos ram chip would get less than 3 volts if you install a 3.6 volt battery.
These use a 3.6v Ni-Cad.
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ok. But still after the mod the diode will reduce the 3.6 volt battery voltage to 2.9 volts and it will then drop further as time goes by. Is that too low, or would it be better to use a battery holder with 3 cells totaling 4.5 volts, so you will get 3.8 volts to the cmos chip? How low can the voltage go on the 5101 ram chip before it loses data? The 5101L cmos chips will work ok down as low as 2.0 volts, but I don't know about the standard 5101.
https://www.jameco.com/z/5101-Major-Brands-5101-Family-256-x-4-bit-Static-CMOS-RAM_42198.html (https://www.jameco.com/z/5101-Major-Brands-5101-Family-256-x-4-bit-Static-CMOS-RAM_42198.html)
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I’m just going by what I’ve done and been taught to do. It’s Posted here or on the old sight. These games don’t relay on the battery to run like the newer slots do. It’s usually just for book keeping. I’ve seen them still work with less then 1V. The diode is installed to only break the charging circuit.
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the 6 is usually the POWER SUPPLY - check the voltages on the test loops - and also just try reseating the power supply connector. Also the bottom 2 wires/connection usually go bad. BATTERY IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!! use the nicad!!!
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Before I got all these replies, I reseated all the IC's and connectors (and the RAM board) on the MPU board. I think one connector pin on a ribbon cable is getting weak but It held when I plugged it back in. No change.
Now I'm at the power supply and the connector is quite burnt looking. Should I just replace out all those pins now just to rule it out? I unplugged it twice and sprayed some contact cleaner on both ends but no change.
Sorry, ignorant question here... what voltages am I looking for and are the loops all on the p/s board? I'm not at the machine now... have to work! Ugh!
I'll get back to it tonight.
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That plugs toasty.. :burningresistor: This is what I would do, buy the replacement plug and connectors off EBay along with the correct battery. Both come from the same vender so shipping should be combined. You will need the correct crimping tool for the connectors. From what I can see it looks like some connectors in the plug are half way out. I’m sure those connection have lost there spring tension. If that plugs burnt like that, I’m sure you have cold solder joint on the PS and possiblie the header pins on the PS done have much tin plating on the pins.
For the PS voltage you should have 5V, 7.5V, and 10V. You will see 4 loops on the PS. The 4th is a ground.
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Mark..
Here is a picture of what each PS loops voltage is.
Gary
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My meter shows 4.97, 6.94, zero which is the ground, and 9.63.
I think my power supply is working.
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It’s working but not great. Those numbers are a bit low but hopefully will do for now. Did you pull the power supply and look it over for bad solder joints?
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Yes and I re-soldered one voltage regulator that just had a crappy job. By the looks of the board, It's been replaced along with the big cap I think. I think the next step is the connector but what are the two wires that Barry mentioned?
"Also the bottom 2 wires/connection usually go bad."
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Bottom two wires on the plug.
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Also check the power supply board header.
Clean it up with a green Scotch pad.
If any copper is showing on any pins (tin gone) the entire header should be replaced.
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So I decided to vacuum some of the “dirt “at the back of the machine, and the dirt and it up being rat droppings, and we all know what that means!
Here’s a picture of the wiring harness back behind the transformer on the right side. I’m in the process of removing the transformer right now.
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Surprised it didn’t blow a fuse? It looks like it might be only one or two wires. Post a better pic when you get the transformer out. 4 screws and a couple plugs and it will be out. Mark your plugs with a sharpie.
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It looks like some of the wires in the middle of the bundle just had the insulation eaten off. If you look to the left there’s two more damaged wires that just stop right there – I can’t see any connecting wires on the right side of the bundle.
There was also a terminal block just above the harness that had a broken wire – I fixed that.
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Looks like to me that you have at least 6 wires damaged or cut. Looks like you have a grey or brown one under the red one. Then the yellow with red on the top.
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I'll need to look for a wiring diagram - I think we have one here on the site, or at least something close.
Wondering where those gray/yellow and gray wire "ends" should go.
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It’s possible that those two wires were part of a plug that wasn’t used. I’ll have to see if I have a machine I could look at. If you don’t see those two colors on the other side, then I would assume they were a plug.
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I patched up the eaten wires and taped off those two loose wires on the right but still don't know where they go or where they went.
I painstakingly re-installed the transformer and connectors, powered up and got nothing. The "6" code was there but when I powered off and on, it disappeared. Maybe the battery is charging now - I'll check, but that part doesn't really matter. And, nothing appears to go to that terminal block either - I'm not sure where those wires went originally.
I'm guessing the next step is to replace that connector on the power supply.
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Double check your fuses, use a meter. Then power it on and wiggle the power supply plug and see if your display changes.
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I did all that, three times. No change. :no:
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I wonder if you could have a 5101 ram chip problem? Did you pull them off the ram board and inspect the sockets. Be next to the battery I have had green contacts inside those sockets. You did mention that you had a pin on the ribbon cable that’s questionable. I guess you try a new PS plug.
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Ok I pulled the RAM board and cleaned the contacts. I also did a decent repair of the broken pin on the ribbon cable. It was an end wire so I just nipped it off from the connector, stripped the end and added solder to the bare wire. I plugged that into the socket and then plugged in the connector over that and ensured nothing was shorting. (I did find a new old stock 16 pin DIP ribbon cable on eBay for about $10. I don't see them anywhere else but I might post a WTB or contact Alan.)
There's no change. And I still have the "6" in the display. I don't thing that matters at this point anyway.
I think my next step is that p/s connector...
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I think if you look on EBay, you will see that the ribbon cable, ps plug and battery are all from the same seller. If you bought them all at once you could save on shipping.
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I have multiple issues I think here.
I just noticed that there's a blinking light in the reel #2 PC board. And there's what looks like a 1 watt resistor that's hot as hell.
So it seems there's another issue independent off whatever else is going on here.
Should I still start with replacing this P/S connector? I've PM'd Alan - he has all the parts I'd need but I would still like to troubleshoot this a little instead of just replacing everything.
This is getting frustrating when so many multiple issues keep popping up.
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a blinking LED in the reel #2 PC board.
Should I still start with replacing this P/S connector.
Are you talking about the reel read board on reel 2?? Or some other board? The plug is going to need to be replace at some time to fix that problem. The led’s on the reader do pulse when power is applied. At that point the resistor on the reel reader board does get hot if left powered on. I’d first work on the 6 code, new plug, if that doesn’t fix the problem, then it’s new ram chips if the voltages check good on the test loops.
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Resistor in Reel #2 board is too hot to touch. LED on, reel #1 and #3 - no light, no hot as hell resistor.
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I guess I have not been thinking straight. You having a E1000 means you have the 50v reel readers that light up. The resistor on those readers will get extreamly hot if left on.
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I don't recall there being any visible LED on any voltage version (5V or 50V) of the reel reader.
There are some visible incandescent lamps on the 50V reel reader but it doesn't make sense that only one reel reader is lit because they are all turned on at once during a read via one triac on the I/O board.
If there was a short providing 50V to that one reader the other two would be on also as the 50V line is daisy chained to all 3 reader cards.
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I have had a bulb short out in a way that only one reader was not lit. I was not thinking clearly when it was mentioned that an LED was on. I first thought of how the 5V readers led will pulse when lit, but you need a camera to see this.
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Reel 1 and 3 may both have an open lamp.
Ohm each lamp out and they should read about 10 Ohms.
The one that reads infinity is the open lamp.
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It could be Q32 is shorted and the one remaining lit reel reader is the only one that has not given up a lamp yet.
see attached.
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Need to figure out the 6 in the win meter first. I want him to fix the badly burnt PS plug and replace the ribbon cable. If the 6 is still there then he has a bad ram chip. Fix this problem then we can move on to the reel reader issue.
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Got all of that! Thanks Alan and Gary. :applause:
I will start with my cable repair to make 100% sure I'm not getting any shorts.
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Just to update:
While waiting for the connector and parts from Alan at K-LAR, I went back in, removed the transformer and all the parts to access the wiring bundle at the back/bottom of the machine. I just wanted to 100 percent sure my patch job was decent. I just cut off the crimps I used on the one wire, spliced and soldered in another wire.
(Click on the first picture and see the coolest cheap tool I've ever bought)
I unwrapped the electrical tape off the other wires and double checked that it was just insulation that got eaten and that the wire was strong. I re-wrapped the bundle and zip tied it.
STILL I have the two unknown wires - see last picture. There's nothing for them to go to so I do think they just terminated there, I hope.
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Mark. I’m 99% sure those two wires were part of a 2 pin molex plug that just sat there in the back of the machine.
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UPDATE, finally...
I wired in the new connector... no change. Then I put in the new ribbon cable - nothing. Changed out the reel #2 board (the one with all lights and HOT resistor) - nothing, same: all lights and HOT resistor. Then I put in the new RAM board and still have the same results.
Alan - you asked me to check three voltage regulators. Are they on the MPU? Gary you will probably know this too...
I will check the P/S output voltages again when I get home later today. Dealing with some medical issues, again! (Had to go to ER the other night for an fucking infected molar - crown fell out and it was unbearably painful. I'm really not a pansy!)
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Ok.. Now this bastard machine has my attention. Give us the 3 voltages off your power supply’s test loops. Are you still showing a 6 in the win meter? And can you access other tests with the hopper boards test button, tests 2-8?
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Can't access any tests from hopper buttons. Soon as I'm home, I'll check the voltages. And I actually didn't look at the display because that resistor was starting to cook again.
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You either have a problem with the MPU or the hopper board since you can’t access a menu. Let’s start with PS voltages and go from there. I had one in here a year or so back that they over fuse the hopper, and in the mean time it too out the IO, hopper board, and reel reader control board. Hopefully your mouse or rat friend, didn’t cause the same problem.
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Ok the voltages are about the same as last time:
5v 6.9v G 9.7v
Alan told me to check all the voltage regulators. I haven't yet with my meter but the top one on the MPU is the "normal" hot, while the lower one is barely warm.
I still have the 6 code and the hopper buttons do nothing.
I'll check the voltage regulators next...
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The long white power plugs (red if IDC) could have a bad pin that provides the power supply voltage to the regulators, did you check the input of the regulator for 7-9VDC?
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On the MPU board, both regulators have about 10vdc in and 5vdc out. On the I/O board, I have 10vdc in and 4.75 vdc or so out for both. And stil, on the MPU boards lower regulator, the heat sink is cool. :Scratch-Head:
I think I will remove the MPU board and check the connections to that regulator see if there is a cold solder joint.
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You might want to reflow the ram boards header pins. Also look close at any socketed chips around the ram board for green connections inside those sockets. I can’t tell you how many bad cheap ass Bally sockets I’ve replaced.
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I agree, the first thing I do is replace those two sockets.
I have trouble shot boards where the fault pointed to the RAM but the socket looked good.
You can use a flat screwdriver to pry the plastic off of the pins, in many cases I have found pins in two pieces hidden inside the plastic.
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I’m confused – Alan you sent me a tested RAM board ...
which sockets? The ones in the RAM that connect to the MPU or the sockets on the RAM?
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The RAM sockets for a start but I do have the headers and pins for the edge connector if necessary.
I believe the one I sent you was sealed, on the shelf, and tested good in my E1000 machine.
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.....I can’t tell you how many bad cheap ass Bally sockets I’ve replaced.
One time I asked an engineer why they used such poor sockets on equipment. He told me the anticipated service life of a slot machine was just a few years, after that it is removed from the casino and replaced with a newer model. So they didn't need to use 30 year sockets. The parts of the machine that are built rugged like the hinges, doors, etc are for security reasons, not long-life reasons. When they are sourcing parts to build the equipment they take into account how long the equipment is expected to be in commercial use and buy the parts accordingly. Kinda like not putting Michelin 80,000 mile tires on a Yugo.
I got the idea that if it wasn't for securing the money inside they'd build them out of plastic like a Corvette.
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I’m talking about the ones on the MPU not the ram board. Look at the ones around the ram board. Anything close to the battery can get corrosion from the battery vapors if one was going bad.
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I checked the pins on both connectors for the RAM board and they are clean with nice shiny solder connections.
I checked all input/output voltages on all regulators - all good.
I removed the ribbon cable to the I/O board, powered up and still got the 6 error code.
I removed the entire RAM board, powered up and got the 6 error code.
In all these situations, all the lights are still on, for that middle reel board, and that 1W resistor gets too hot.
I'll now remove the MPU and reflow/add solder to everything that looks like it needs it.
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Check your software chips, clean the legs clean the sockets, do you have another M1 you can try in the board?
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I think it’s his only E Series machine
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My MPU board...
Cleaning, removed all IC's in sockets except three more... had to sleep.
I'll check the last three and plug it in again. Nothing on the back looks like it ever got too hot far as I can see. Is the correct chip in M7?
I don't know if the previous owner messed with this game or not...
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M7 looks correct, you should solder a jumper across the contacts (two outside leads) of that yellow relay.
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Mark,
This is the relay in question.
Gary
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My MPU board...
Cleaning, removed all IC's in sockets except three more... had to sleep.
I'll check the last three and plug it in again. Nothing on the back looks like it ever got too hot far as I can see. Is the correct chip in M7?
I don't know if the previous owner messed with this game or not...
Replace C15, 2 uF 25 - 50V
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My MPU board...
Cleaning, removed all IC's in sockets except three more... had to sleep.
I'll check the last three and plug it in again. Nothing on the back looks like it ever got too hot far as I can see. Is the correct chip in M7?
I don't know if the previous owner messed with this game or not...
Replace C15, 2 uF 25 - 50V
Is the cap C3 the same value as C15.
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No, C3 is much larger and is used to smooth out the pulsing DC the Zener diode near it generates.
C15 is the cap for the regulators. A regulator has a tendency to self oscillate at a high frequency and C15 dampens that possibility.
When C15 gets old and dry the regulator can oscillate. I chased that problem on a couple of boards so on any new boards I automatically replace that cap if the original bally (silver) cap is still in the board
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Ok thanks, yea caps don’t cost much. I don’t remember exactly what happens when C3 goes bad, but doesn’t jumping the relay fix that?
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Ya, that whole section is not needed for home use.
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Jumper soldered in, no change.
I'll do the caps today and post back.
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Replaced C15 with 2.2 uF 50 volt... no change in anything.
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Maybe it's time to send me all of your boards?
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Maybe I should.
Still do you know why all the lights in my reel#2 board would stay lite? I tried the replacement board and got the same results. Can that be traced back to anything?
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Mark, Does your game use the beau plugs on the back of the reels for just a guide to aline the reels to the cabinet or do they have wiring attached? Most E-Series just used two molex style plugs on the back right corner of the reels for the wiring source. But I have seen some early ones that were wired like an EM. I’ve seen coins get in some strange places. Have you had the IO Board off to check behind it? Reason I ask about the beau plugs, I have seen coins in them.
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Hmmmmmmm... I WAS wondering that myself and just didn't look and didn't think the obvious that I normally would have! I don't believe there's wiring there but I will check. :sherlock:
I'll report back in a while. Thank you.
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Nothing connected to the beau plugs on the back, just air!
Gary or Alan:
How does the reel board configuration work? Could the #1 or #3 board be causing the #2 to have all the lights on? Alan you gave me two working boards - should I try swapping the #1 and #3?
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You could try switching 1 & 2 around. But I believe your problem lays with the IO or MPU. It might be time to let Alan put them on his Tester.
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I agree, if the boards work on my tester then you can be assured it is in your wiring.
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Just to close out this thread...
Alan checked and repaired all my broken PC boards. I re-installed and still have issues. We've determined it's the wiring. To be honest, this has been, by far, the most difficult machine to work on for me. I think half the problem is that I'm horrible with tracing wiring issues and there's a lot here. I have one more area to check, removing the small board next to the hopper plug to check, where Alan told me to look at a delay relay.
If this isn't the issue I'm going to mothball the machine and just drive it out to K-LAR! I need a vacation anyway and I actually enjoy driving out to the desert, once I get over the Cajon pass of course. :tumbleweed:
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I'll leave the porch light on.
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Just another update here. I did end up sending all my boards to Alan at KLAR. He repaired/tested, and sent them back. Unfortunately I still had the same issue with those reel-reader board resistors heating up. So I'm guessing it's a wiring issue and maybe a mistake I made in repairing it. :Scratch-Head:
The machine sat covered in my garage until about a number of weeks ago when I sold it to Joe, NLG member slcjeeper.
I think he's quite capable of getting this great machine up and running and hoping he'll add to this thread so we can all see where I screwed up! :arrowthruhead: