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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: Catalinafan on September 11, 2018, 10:17:47 AM
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Hi all. I am currently working on a Bally E1213-5 machine, 3 reel, 5 coin, 5 payline. Solved many connection issues and lubed the reel assembly. I could not get machine to boot. I placed the eproms in my GQ-4X and found M3 to be bad (blank). Begins my issue of what rom do I need? The labels are faded completely out except for M-7 which reads "507981, E1213-5, 6-12-81". So I'm swinging in the dark here with what rom I need and where to find it. Been looking for a reference for model to rom chart but no luck. Any help would be really appreciated.
Issue 2.... I used donor boards from one of my other machines for testing other items (hopper, lights, etc.) With donor boards installed the machine will light up, coin up, handle release engages, reel reader lights turn on but when I pull the handle the reels spin to a slow stop. I get no tilt, no error code, just nothing. Only way to proceed is to reset from hopper. I ran test 5 and I see no activity from reel readers.
Actions taken... Tested all 3 reel readers (found a few light sensors bad and replaced). Tested reel reader board, and swapped one from working machine. Tested kicker switches on left end of reel assembly and both show good. It's like there's no connection at all from reel readers to boards but I'm lost why it doesn't show error code.
Again any help will be great. Thanks :banghead:
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Are you saying you have tested these boards is a different machine and they all worked? I would start by looking at the wiring at the two molex plugs that connect the reels to the cabinet wiring. I have had bad pins, and broken wires found there. I have also found broken wires in the back right corner of the cabinet behind the handle gear box.. The air cylinders metal linkage will reach to that back corner when the handles fully pulled.. I would also try swapping out the kick and arm switches, plus make sure the lever of those switches stay on the cam.
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Yes i have checked plugs behind reels and replaced a few pins on various plugs (p1 p2 etc) power supply is good the switches stay on the cam. I can activate either switch on the cam and still get no tilt. The switches show good with the test. To verify .I have several of these machines to use donor parts from that are all working 100% Starting to look like a harness issue. Hate the thought of swapping that but if needed i will. Main thing is finding the correct eproms.
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Did you get you M-3 issue figured out Catalinafan or are you still looking for help?
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m3 issue
depending on the board you have e1000 the standard m1 m2 m3 are 43 44 45 Unless you have beauplug connections for the reel mech and you would need 12 13 14 (there was an engineering change for reel speed issues requiring adding jump wires - i forget the wires) but can research if I find time) if you have molex reel connections this sometimes applies as well There are upgrades to the "standard" as i indicated but not the m3 - you cannot mix E1000 and E2000 eproms other than the game prom which will work on either board. i can send the bin file but you need a bipolar prom burner 82s123 i believe is the blank you need SORRY wrong eprom - disregard
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The reel assembly has only beau plugs on rear.
My programmer is a GX-4X and I have backed up and replaced several e1000 and e2000 eproms. Sorry i'm not quite educated enough as the eprom i need. The ones on the board are mbm2716.
As the bins that would be great I really appreciate the help.
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I don't think the GQ-4X eprom programmer will work with bipolar proms like the 82s123.
http://www.mcumall.com/store/list.html (http://www.mcumall.com/store/list.html)
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Again learning every day but what is that particular eprom for?
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Bipolar PROM
A Bipolar PROM (obsolete now) is a non-volatile memory which usually contains small amount of data and has faster access speed than other non-volatile memories. “BIPOLAR" stands for the transistor technology used in the manufacturing process. Immunity to solar radiations made Bipolar PROMs popular in space programs, but they are also commonly seen in electronics like vintage arcade games. BPROMS are one-time programmable chips (OTP) and hence the data programmed can never be erased.
Programming a BPROM requires high voltage and a high current pulse to program; therefore most low cost programmers do not support BPROM chips. When you program a bipolar prom you actually burn open a fusible link inside the chip, this is a permanent change and is how the device gets its 1's and 0's programmed. This is old-school and where the term "burning a chip" comes from.
I don't know what it is specifically used for on the Bally E-1000 and E-2000 mpu boards.
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I see. Thanks for info.
So i need to use the 82s123 in place of the mbm2716's at M1,2,3 ?
This part im confused on.
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I think GOS edited his post about the 82s123 chip, so reread it. I did twice and still don't know what he is saying. :garfield:
The chips on your board that start with "m" are all eproms I think. So your GQ-4X should be able to work with them ok but might need the external power adapter. A lot of the older style eproms like 2716 needed higher power so the USB power connection to the GQ-4X may not be hefty enough. Check the owners manual on the GQ-4X, it mentions about the external power adapter.
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Thanks for clearing that up .I was kinda lost lol.
All good everyone makes mistakes.
Couldn't imagine where i'd be without nlg!
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There's a slot repair tech here that works on these older machines and their boards all the time. I think he has a good collection of eprom software. So you could probably send your board to him for repair, or maybe order the eprom chips that you need already programmed. Send NLG member "Badbaud" a message and see if he can help you out if GOS isn't able to send you the files that you need.
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=profile;u=511 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=profile;u=511)
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Looking at the drawings for the mpu board AS-2978-7 it looks like rom chips M1, M2 and M3 are all 2716 type eproms. P1 and P2 are also 2716. There is a note on the drawing that says P2 can be a 2732 in some instances, there are a couple of jumpers to allow this. The 82s123 chip is an address bus decoder chip located at U17, not something you'd have to program or replace unless it failed.
The other mpu board AS-2978-3 is similar but the circuit board designators (Uxx numbers) are different.
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Thank you all for the help. It looks like i may have a bad u29 or u25 or possibly both. Machine switched on it kinda goes nuts .Buzzers and solenoids do what they want and it blew the hopper fuse. After fuse blown repowering machine i see a 2 or a 3 in display then it starts rapidly scrolling through nunbers.
Was looking into the conversion kit for the 82s123 to 27512 or 2716 to replace then as my gq-4x won't read itf i' m understandind right i can use these adapters to
1- read an 82s123 with my qg-4x
2- seperate adapter to burn and peplace bad 82s123
Am i thinking correctly? These adapters look like at the least they will allow me to verify a dead 82s123
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What adapters are you talking about? Are they the adapters sold for the GQ-4X, or adapters shown here on NLG to allow an eprom to be used in place of the 82s123?
Have you considered sending your mpu board to KLAR, they will do the repair, and they often have older chips in their shop that have been saved from scrapped boards. So they may have the needed M chips and the 82s123 chip. Does your machine require that particular game software that is in there, or could another set of roms be installed?
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Adapters to replace 82s123 with eprom
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If it's the adapter I'm thinking of it is so you can install an eprom on the mpu board in place of the 82s123 chip. Is there more than one adapter, and one of them allows the 82s123 to be read by eprom programmer?
I think what gets done is you use an eprom programmer that is compatible with the 82s123. You get an 82s123 from a good board and read it, save contents to a binary file. Or someone provides the 82s123 bin file to you. Then burn that file to an eprom, which can be done with the GQ-4X since it will work with the eprom. Then install the adapter board with eprom onto the mpu board needing repair. The adapter is a way to repair an mpu by using an eprom when you can't get an 82s123 chip.
If your 82s123 chip is bad you wouldn't want to read or copy it.
I haven't read the adapter article/discussion in a long time. Did you find it here on NLG?
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Seen it a few places. The eproms i have had go bad have all shown blank on my gq-4x. Was thinking this would let me know the same.
Heres a link to one i seen.
http://www.arcade-cabinets.com/board_hacks/82S123-to-27512/
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If your 82s123 chip is bad how will you get its binary contents so you can program a replacement 2716 eprom?
Seems odd that all of the eproms from your mpu are reading bad on your GQ-4X. I suspect something is not setup right maybe?? Also, did you see my comment earlier about how the GQ-4X usually needs an external power adapter when burning old-style eproms that typically use more milliamps than the USB port can provide? Your standard GQ-4X setup gets its power from the USB connection and that power connection is limited on most USB ports.
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Sorry guess i didn't explain clearly.
My gq-4x works fine but cannot handle proms(82s123)
I was just stating that anytime i had placed an eprom in gq- 4x4x that was bad it would show as blank. I could not write to this again it was bad. Bad eprom = blank
My intention to start was to gain the capability of testing the 82s123 (reading) with my gq-4x wich if i'm understanding correctly can be done with mentioned adapters.
The thought being if i in fact had a bad 82s123 going by prevoius results it would come back with a blank reading.
Next i could then aquire the correct files and with use of mentioned adapters i could then burn to a 27512 wich my gq-4x4x can do.
Hope this explains better.
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So you need the M3 file right? Can you erase the old chip? The original chips are uveprom.
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I have those now but "think" i have issues with u29 & u25.
Trying to find a method that i can do with my gq-4x
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You should check your settings on your GQ-4X.
The way that the eeprom works is the prom writer
changes the 0 that is the normal setting of the memory to a 1.
And the only way the 1 can be changed back to 0 is by exposing
the chip with the window open to UV light.
If you are reading all 0's the the chip was never written to, has been put into a UV eraser or the settings on your GQ-4X are wrong.
So recheck your settings or go to MCUmall and ask for help to read the prom.
http://www.mcumall.com/Forum/ (http://www.mcumall.com/Forum/)
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Ok i'll try this again...
My burner is working perfectly fine. It does everything it is designed to do.
If I place any known bad eprom in and read it it shows all ff or a blank eprom. This is a great troubleshooting tool for me to test eproms. Put it in and read it and if it shows up blank then sure enough a dead eprom.
All other working eproms my gq-4x are designed for that i have tried are working fine. Reading and writing.
My idea was since my gq-4x can't do 82s123 chips that i need to test i can use the 82s123 to 27512 adapter to read the 82s123's i have. This will allow me through the help of the adapter to read and verify atleast contents of 82s123.
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I understand .Your u25 and u29 which are the 82s123 chips are in question. I dont think those can be erased. i seem to remember reading them out with my chip reader and saving a copy of mine but i dont have the abilty to write to a blank one either.
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I received my adapter boards in and was able to read and compare u-21,25and 29. I am seeing mismatch on u29 and was wondering if someone would be kind enough to verify these 3 for me.
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So here is what mine read out as some time ago. From an E1000 machine. Hope you can use this HEX format to compare to yours.
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Great thank you. Ill update shortly
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I'm really green at this but trying .I can't seem to find any similar code for the compare. Do you remember what software you used to save?
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My programmer does both.
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I just don't have anything to verify my files against.
I usually get a chip is blank with a bad or dead eprom but i' m getting 2 different files from what should be the same thing.
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Then one of your chips is bad. Can you verify the bin file against the EPROM at +/- 10% of 5V power?
My programmer does that and sometimes a chip will check good at 5V but fail at 4.9V.
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I'm really green at this but trying .I can't seem to find any similar code for the compare. Do you remember what software you used to save?
I'm using an Advin Pilot U84. Like Badbaud said most programmers can use either BIN or HEX.
I'd suggest reading yours out and save it as a HEX, then open it in NOTEPAD and see what you have.
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Here are the check sums I get from my chips, same checksum for both BIN of HEX format.
U21 = 02BA
U25 = 1DE4
U29 = 15C5
Cheers,
Mark
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This is what i'm seeing on my 2 sets
Well call them set g and set y.
G U21- 00000298
Y U21- 00000298
G U25- 00001D90
Y U25- 00001D90
G U29- 00001568
Y U29- 00001CA0
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Yup the G set is close to mine. Obviously the y U29 off by quit a bit. Does the g U29 work in the bad machine/motherboard?
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Well the g set was fully working from another machine but now it quit. The y set is from project machine i've never had working.
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Those old EPROMS fail at the most inopportune times, I was working on a 6000 with a freshly made set of EPROMS and within 2 hours of power up the board started throwing 80 codes.Meaning "checksum error", I rechecked the EPROMS and sure enough one of them had changed some code by not being able to keep 1's or 0's locked into some bytes of memory.
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Yeah i learned the hard way keep backups after i lost several of my v2000 roms due to lack of experience.(static)
In this case unfortunately i didn't have any capability till now for the 82s123's. And my good board decided to crap out while i was using it for troubleshooting and testing.
Now guess i need to locate a u29 and go from there
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My programmer programs those also, unfortunately it is hard to find blanks these days but I was able to copy the bins to a hard drive just in case.
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I have purchased adapters that will allow me to burn to a 27512 and replace 82s123.
Just need good known files and out of the right 27512's right now. Got some on the way.