New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games => Topic started by: CaliforniaDreamer on November 15, 2020, 05:10:22 PM
-
I have a machine Wild Cherry that was working fine until a few days ago. It now gets an error 21 and I have tried everything that I know about to clear it. Cleaned the coin versifier, checked the coin shoot, .. I am not sure the machine type except that is an IGT. Any help would be appreciated. BTW I tried the forum search and could fine nothing except the usual. I attached a photo.
-
Sometimes you cannot clear a 21 by opening and closing the door .You can try by pulling the CMOS chip for 10 seconds and replace then you get the 61 and clear from there. If it comes back you may need to replace your optics.
-
:thank_you: Thank you, I will try it however the error 61 requires me to press the self test switch and not sure what that is. I have a key switch on the outside of the machine, is that the self test switch?
-
21 indicates the coin in optics is faulting. It's below the coin acceptor left side and you should see a small white (usually) ribbon cable on it. That's the optics.
-
The self test switch is either right next to the on off switch or behind the on off switch. So after the 61 hold the self test switch until you get a 61-1 code then close all the doors and turn the reset key
-
Yes that is the unit that has the photo cells and light source that I cleaned. Do you know what color the light sources are and if I should be able to see then?
-
Thank you much, you have been very helpful. I will check that out.
-
You might want to check out Ricks FAQs on the main page.
He has outlined most of the major error codes, how to clear them etc.
Its easy reading and a wealth of knowledge.
-
The light is infared so not visible to the naked eye, and it pulses in a specific pattern so it can't easily be mimicked by a light pen. The intent is to prevent cheaters from opening the machine and bypassing the security mechanisms.
Although invisible to the naked eye, the light can usually be seen by using a cell phone camera. It will show up as a flickering bright spot on the image.
Please note the optic is in two pieces, one is on the door and the other is on the chassis. One is the emitter and the other is the receiver so you will only see the light coming from the emitter.
-
The 21 error is for the coin in optics below the comparitor and the info above is for the door optics. Opening and closing the door should clear the error as long as the door and coin optics are good. I believe that the 21 code will breifly clear with good door optics and a bad coin in optics. I don't know of or heard of any tips for checking the coin in optics with any type of light source.
Can you verify if the code clears for any amount of time?
Isn't there a way to go through the menus and check?
-
On top of the "Play 3 Credits" button on the reel glass display, watch the "Coins Played" display closely as you close the door.
The display should go out momentarily, then come back on.
If it does, then your door optic sensors are okay.
Now your [21] error...what is happening is that the MPU is sensing a fault with the coin comparitor, coin in optics circuit board, and/or it's wiring harnesses.
Make sure every single wire (Mostly orange) are fully inserted into their respective housing connectors that are around the coin comparitor.
It's very possible that one of them has internally broken and they is hanging by only the vinyl wire covering.
You are this close to the point of you having to UN-install that coin comparitor harness and manually checking each wired pin for continuity.
Chances are that one of the ground wires are not in continuity and causing the [21] error.
Most people are too lazy to do all the proper checking of wiring with a multimeter so my suggestion is simply this.
For suspect oxidization of Molex housing pins (male or female), with the power turned off, pull apart each white Molex connector around the coin comparitor and insert back in fully.
The very act of pulling apart the housings and re-connecting them scrapes the oxidization ever so slightly off of the pins and helps promote better electrical contact.
If all of the above doesn't work, then come back and we'll have more suggestions for you to get your machine up and running!
Good luck! :yes:
By the way...you posted this same machine problem more than once.
-
Thank you, I will check the wires again. Looked at the before but now I will meter them. Also sorry for double post. I couldn't tell if the first post actually made it. New to the forum and figuring out the navigation.
-
The 21 clears when I open/close the door but then comes back on in about 5 seconds. Also the winner paid lights for less than a second with a 12.
-
Again thanks for all the help. I will do more checking after work today as indicated above.
-
12 is a low battery.
-
Just a tip: Whenever you disconnect anything in a slot machine, turn off the power.
Not everything is plug-n-play....especially the MPU.
The battery on your MPU...is it the type with two flat tabs going to the positive and negative contact points?
If so, you can use a flat coin cell battery holder instead...the battery can be a fairly common 3 volt coin cell if you wish.
It will last quite a while but you need to be able to use a soldering gun to remove the old battery and solder in the new holder.
Let us know what you're capable of doing and we'll try to help ya.
-
Thank you for all of the help. I have to apologize for posting things from memory, I posted some thigs that are just wrong. In any case thanks for pointing out where the reset switch is. On my unit it is on the back of the box with the power switch. Can't see it and I would have never found it. When I turn the machine on or open/close the door the following sequence takes place. After three or four seconds the "COINS PLAYED" displays 3, and the "CREDITS" displays 21. This blinks off after about 1/2 second then the "WINNER PAID" displays 21 and there it sits. BTW the "CREDITS" displayed 12 before, but I tried adding coins when the unit was locked with the 21 and don't know if that affected that display. Also I don't if it is important but coins added during the 21 lockup drop into the coin hopper not the bottom tray. Oh one other thing I haven't had time to meter the wiring yet but will. I did unplug both ends of the plugs and reseated them to no change.
-
Just to verify, I have removed the CMOS chip from the board for 30 seconds and reinstalled the chip and the board. I then got a 61 error and pressed and held the self test switch. I then got a single ding and the display changed to 61 1. I used the side key switch to reset the error and it cleared but returned to the 21 error as described above. At this point I don't know what to do except replace the coin comparator. Any other ideas? :Scratch-Head:
BTW I do have extensive experience with soldering and have a very good temp controlled soldering station. I also have a very good meter and did meter the cable from the comparator plug to the plugs on the bottom of the cabinet where the board plugs in, all good.
-
You might get lucky removing the Q2 chip on the coin in optics board below the coin comparitor.
There are many posts on NLG about this.
Try a search for it.
-
Tried a search for Q2, Q2 coin chip, repair coin optics board, and Q2 chip with no luck.
-
It's pretty simple really but it may not solve your [21] problem.
If you disassemble the coin in optics, you will see one small chip marked as "Q2".
Take a small flat screw driver and break it off and reassemble the coin in optics.
The coin in optics is sometimes part of the [21] error code problem but works in conjunction with the coin comparitor.
Plus taking it apart forces you to clean it better.
-
That seems fairly easy, is Q2 a small cap? Also I should note that the coin comparator itself (the part with the coin in it) does not have any wiring to it. Is that normal? From my past clearing of error 21 (cleaning and replacing the coin) it has never had a connection to the rest of the system.
-
....Also I should note that the coin comparator's plug is not attached to anything and has always been that way.
Woops double post, couldn't see the first one.
Whaddya mean by this?
That's why you're getting the [21]!!!
Plug it in!
Can you show me what you have going on in there around the coin comparitor?
-
There is no plug that would attach to that connector. :Scratch-Head: There has never been a plug attached, only some black tape over the plug. Is it possible that there use to be a jumper between some of the pins and it has fallen off? There is a three position Molex plug there but no way it would fit.
BTW when I say coin comparator I mean the top part with the coin in it, the part below that does have a plug into it.
-
There is a jumper if the machine is rigged NOT to accept coins anymore.
Yes...it is possible it fell apart and now you're getting [2] errors.
Was this machine accepting coins when you got it?
I would like to see the black tape and what's UNDER it. :sherlock:
Below is a picture I made years ago to show newbies what connector goes to what in there because I have no clue which one you're talking about. :scratch-head_3: :scratch-head_2: :Scratch-Head: :rotfl:
Click on photo to enlarge if needed...>>>
-
Sorry it took so long to reply but I was having problems with iPhone to computer transfer of photos. In any case my cable looks just like yours. As you can see by the photos the connector on my comparer does not match any of the connectors on the cable.
-
You need a coin comparator harness like this...>>>
-
Sounds good, how do I get one and from where? Makes sense cuz it looks like some of the pins are jumped. If I had the sematic I could make one assuming I can find the connectors. The molex one would bb easy, don't know about the other connector.
-
Easier just to place a WTB ad in the Classifieds section of NLG
Just use the photo I posted above^^^^ and state that it's for an IGT S+ machine.
Someone will spot your "Want To Buy" ad and contact you.
What bothers is in your very first post in this topic, you said that the machine "...that was working fine..."
There's no way in the world that coin comparitor could have ever worked without power being applied to it.
Which Molex housing had "Tape" on it?
Were you ever able to insert coins for credits? :Scratch-Head:
-
Yes, it did work fine. And yes it accepted up to three coins a pull. Is it possible that there is a hack on the computer board that allowed a bypass? The one picture shows the connector with the tape on it.
-
I would agree with Mark that there is no way that comparitor ever worked.....
You "can" use a manual coin comparitor....
I use the term comparitor loosely as there is no sample coin. It simply works on size and weight.
Imonex is a common one that is used.
To make it work they cut the lead on Q4 on the optics board. If this is the case getting a new harness for the comparitor isn't going to change the state of the nation.
I am now wondering if perhaps the optics are dirty or the optics have gone bad.
You could remove the optics board, open it up (its two plates held in place by 4 screws and spacers). Clean the optics with a qtip and water (never windex or other chemicals).
In casinos they used to give out wet towelettes in little packages as the coins used to turn your hands black. Think of what 30+ years would do to optics - easy to imagine what could be fouling them up.
-
Basically the same thing everyone else is saying. Try the Q2 or Q4 removal. Looks like US Gaming shopped out the machine and the coin comparitor may be jumped. The comparitor is just used as a guide for the coin in that case. That harness won't do you any good unless you have a good working comparitor.
-
I have opened up the optics unit and cleaned the photo sensors and light LED's with q-tips and it made no difference. I will try the Q2 Q4 thing next.
-
So, US Gaming did a hack on the part of the door harness where it goes to the coin in optics board UNDER the coin comparitor.
Ken, would you know what pins they jumped on the harness to bypass the coin comp?
There's no way I can tell from CalDreamer's photos.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just take the rake off the coin comparitor or did they sell the CC harness for $40 on ebay? haha?
-
Mark. It's been to long to remember how it's done.
-
Just want to make a few things clear. Long story short, I was involved in coming up with that"hack job" to be able to use a mechanical acceptor in the S+ machine, actually we used IMONEX acceptors , they made several versions of this acceptor, we used the one that would accept .900 through .984 metal discs. ( tokens or quarters). in order to do this, we had to take away the interaction of the optic board to the cc-16, on earlier models, the five pin optic board, you had to clip the diode next to the 555 timer to do this, on later models, you removed Q-2, and on the latest version you removed Q-4. Now you could put anything in that space to get a coin to the optics and it would work, even a direct chute into the optic!
Back in the day when S+ machines came out of the casino they removed the CC-16 because they were very expensive, so in order to play the machine we had to come up with a way to work around the absence of a CC-16.
The only function of the CC-16 is to accept a metal object that is used as a sample, that sample coin sets up a electronic signature for that coin, as other coins are inserted it compares the signature of the sample to the one incoming, if they compare then the rake is moved back and the coin is allowed to go on to the optics, if it doesn't compare, it gets rejected.
So in this case, they are using a non functioning cc-16 to do that! get the coin from the coin head into the coin optic, the machine will work as advertised,
usually a code 21 means one of the optics is not reporting back to the cpu as operating. this could be an intermittent plug on the optic board or a wiring issue in and around the harness that connects the optics to the machine harness. the same thing that happens to the power connector on the motherboard happens to the connector on the optic connector, the contact gets dirty or looses connectivity due to being wiggled or moved many times,
the best way to see what the optics are doing is to do the optic test ( if you can get into the test mode)
Hope this helps
Jim
-
So, US Gaming did a hack on the part of the door harness where it goes to the coin in optics board UNDER the coin comparitor.
Ken, would you know what pins they jumped on the harness to bypass the coin comp?
There's no way I can tell from CalDreamer's photos.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just take the rake off the coin comparitor or did they sell the CC harness for $40 on ebay? haha?
Now we know Jim did it. I even have some imonex acceptors.
-
I didn't mean "hack" in a bad way Jim! haha
I apologize for my poor choice of word.
Many guys hated when I made the door optics bypass to the cherry switch! :rotfl:
I think that was awesome what you had to do to get the machines to accept coins! :yes:
I would compare that work and innovation to the stuff other gentlemen have done like for example: to make TITO tickets to work on our home games...just as remarkable!
-
So it sounds like if we can get a new set of optics with Q4 modified then we should be good to go +/- wiring gone bad.
-
So it sounds like if we can get a new set of optics with Q4 modified then we should be good to go +/- wiring gone bad.
I agree with Jay.
-
Thanks so much for all of your responses. I want to check out the wiring (not an easy task) before I do anything else. The connector at the back of the unit where all of the orange wires go refuses to come out. That actually may be the problem, corrosion. I need to get a little more physical with it but don't want to brake anything. I have some contact cleaner and will try that to see if it loosens. Would not have looked at it without the suggestion of checking the wiring. Thanks again.
-
Thank you every one for all of your help, however I have decided to sell the machine as is with the 21 error. I am tired of fooling with it. I metered out the complete wiring from the connector on the compare unit the connector in the back of the machine and it was all good.
Woops sorry, should not have posted for sale , I have deleted that part of the post and created a post in the classifieds.
Thanks again for all your help.
-
Thanks again for all you who replied and provided advice. The machine has gone to another user and will have a good home. The person who got the machine intends to fix it and from talking to him it seems he has the knowledge to do so.
Thanks
CaliforniaDreamer
-
You're very welcome...it was fun trying to get your machine running.It's NOT always easy....that's why I put some words down below here....lol
-
I recently fixed the error 21 on my S+ where only the B optic was working. The A optic was fixed by removing the Q4 transistor, and for the C optic I had to replace the IR LED emitter. If you replace any of the LEDs, be sure to solder the new one in the right way round, or none of the optics will work afterwards :duh:
-
I recently fixed the error 21 on my S+ where only the B optic was working. The A optic was fixed by removing the Q4 transistor, and for the C optic I had to replace the IR LED emitter. If you replace any of the LEDs, be sure to solder the new one in the right way round, or none of the optics will work afterwards :duh:
I agree with you in saying that LED optics are directional but I'm sure the new owner has all the extra parts to get it up and running again.
Your comment should help someone in the future! :yes:
There's a few of us slot guys actually like messing around down to the IC component level or have the capability to do so. :cool_thumb_up:
Most home owners just shell out the Benjamins for replacement parts....lol