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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: BubbaK on November 23, 2024, 06:17:25 PM
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I got a chance to play around with my new machine. I have a few questions so far. The game appears to be working properly. I replaced the power cord, cleaned the contacts of the score reel assembly. I put the reels in, the coin unit in and plugged it in. No power switch?
Where can I get or find the documentation on this game?
A few things I noticed just looking around. There are a few toasty coils in the top. Can someone give me the coil numbers of the ones in the picture? Are these normally toasty, or should I be looking for a problem?
The bell in the top has a blue wire that has been cut. Yet, when I insert a coin, I get a ding. It doesn't ding on payouts so far.
There is a key on the side to an electric switch. I don't have a key. Not sure what the switch does. I can replace the cylinder.
There is a red wire appears cut on the side of the hopper that I cant seem to find where it may have been cut from.
2nd coin payouts take a long time - close to 5 min sometimes. Small payouts are quick, 10 and up take awhile or not at all.
The lightbox is filled with a few different types of bulbs. Not sure if thats correct? Some globes and some 47's.
Any general info on the machine is appreciated. I don't know anything about this. What maintenance should I do? I see the gears on the hopper are pretty funky with grease and dust. I'll give them a good cleaning. The steppers all seem to be really clean. I've attached a few pictures and have taken a lot more.
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Here is the whole machine. I need to make a taller stand for it. This ones too short.
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It looks like the payout delay may have been due to a jammed chute? I had a bunch of coins jam up. Once I cleared the jam, its been working fine. I took the back cover off the chute and there is a piece of plastic or something that is causing the chute to jam. Not sure what its supposed to look like.. Its pretty stiff.
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docs you can find in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/
there's 1088 folders as well as /bally_manuals/.
it's probably more-or-less the basic 1088 with the p-685-[297,298,299] slotted reel index discs ... which you don't care about assuming your reel tapes match the discs.
you have a bit of a cobble together machine as the 1088-4 markings on the reel wiper arms don't technically match the index discs. The 1088-4 used discs p-684-[341,342,343]. However, the reel wipers and board wiring are the same, so it doesn't matter.
there is one possible significant difference - whether you have a coin lockout coil or a coin scavenger system. Can you post a pic of the coin mech area inside the door? A pic with the coin mech removed is even better.
I do have a 1088-1 schematic that isn't on the above site yet. It has the coin lockout circuit. The 1088 schem has the scavenger circuit. The "inside door" pic on the above site for the 1088 show the scavenger setup.
the coil wrappers on some of the coils get charred. It's normal - especially the anti-cheat relay as it's powered almost all the time. It may not have a wrapper. The odds and odds reset relay (odds = coin unit on that game) are only powered momentarily, so they typically don't roast unless the odds/coin unit stepper unit got gummy. If the relays work, don't worry about it.
the game has a chime in the 50V circuit that dings when the coin unit steps up. The jackpot bell is on the 6V circuit and when it rings is one of the typical differences between 1088 versions. On the 1088 and 1088-1, the bell only rings for bar win. On a 1088-4, it rings for all wins.
if your cabinet came from a 1088-4, then you get maximum bell. If you can post a picture of the wiring side of the reel 3 wiper board and the inside of the top compartment with the insert removed, that'll maybe answer the question.
there's may be a terminal strip in the upper compartment. If so and green/white wire 45 is jumpered to the red 10-2 wire on that strip, then the bell will ring on all pays.
typically a key switch on the right side is for jackpot lockup release, tho most casinos didn't use it. However, your machines pays all wins - it doesn't lock up and need a hand pay, so it doesn't need a jackpot release switch. What wire colors are on the switch (picture again? :-)). It may just be the cabinet that got used to make the game was originally for something else that used it.
wrt the red wire ... is it solid red, or red-something? Can you see where the other end goes (it shouldn't go to the beau plug to the cabinet).
2nd coin pays take a while to detect and turn on the hopper or the hopper turns on but it takes forever to pay? If detect issue, it's usually one of:
- reel wiper boards cruddy
- reel wipers misaligned on board rivets
- cruddy plug connections
- cruddy or burnt traces on the payout counter board
- poor connection from wipers to rivets on the coin unit
I guess that more-or-less half the 50V circuits, so there's ways to narrow it down.
47, 44 and 55 lamps are all 6V lamps. They are dimmer to brighter in the listed order. 55's are not used much as they make a lot of heat and eventually burn the ink on the glass. These days, people usually switch to leds like the ones comet pinball sells with the frosted lenses. 1smd warm white is good enough, 2smd if you like things bright. I see you have a pinball machine, so basically same kinda thing as that.
if you want to email highest possible resolution pics (send them "actual size" if taken on a phone) to slotpics@cdyn.com, I'll add them to the above site ... especially if we can figure out what version of a 1088 you game is. It may be no version tho if it was made from parts of various machines by the aftermarket refurbishers, which is pretty common.
if you wanted to get a book on these things, the one worth getting is the mead publishing "owners pictorial guide for the care and understanding of the bally slot machine 2nd edition" by geddes. Don't pay more than the cover price for it tho as they are still available new. I probably have one someplace I can send your way if you want to flip a donation to the pacific pinball museum.
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Wolftalk... Awesome info. Thank you. I will send you as many pics as you want. I appreciate the info. I'm into Gottlieb EM's, so I'm familiar with a lot of the parts and concepts. I had a Bally Captain Fantastic that kicked my butt and I got rid of it, so I'm glad this one is working. :smile:
The 3rd reel tape appears to have been pieced together. It seems to be accurate on payouts from what I've seen.
It has a lockout coil. The relay next to it looks like add on. Looking at the door, I noticed the Tilt lamp socket is missing a wire. I don't see a loose end around.
I'm not sure what the odds relays are for to know if they work.
I'll pull the reels and get some better pics of the wiring side. I did notice some sloppy soldering on one of the boards that I plan on fixing. I don't want to do too much until I know what I'm doing. I'll get better answers on the rest of the questions when I dig back in.
I'd be happy to make a donation to the Pacific Pinball Museum. I've gotten some other pinball parts from another member in the group.. I'll reach out to you.
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you have a lockout coil, but no armature plate (plus spring, retaining place and screws) so it doesn't do anything. See 2200 manual page 72, parts 50,53, 61,62. If you're lucky, 61 and 62 are still there.
I vaguely recall (start worrying) that the armature (part 50) is not the same as the ones used in the bingo machines bally was making in the 70's. The 1088's started around 1975. Not sure if the bally pinballs would have something that would work ... I'll try and remember to look in the pacific pinball museum warehouse tomorrow.
the side effect of no armature is the game will not reject coins when it doesn't want them (during a spin, after 3rd coin played, etc.).
the added "ice cube" relay next to you mech is likely due to the game having the scavenger circuits that was used on dollar games (which the 1088 usually was). The coin lockout coil was powered whenever the game would accept a coin, and the scavenger coil was powered when the game would reject a coin. The easy way to reverse the circuit was add a relay to invert the logic.
having said all that, your top insert board is not from a 1088. The 1088 didn't have a motor unit with cams or a 7 relay. It also looks like you have an odds follower unit and odds follower relay. The cabinet is also not from a 1088 dollar slot of that period. Most three reel games at that time used wide reels.
the odds follower unit/relay were used in some multiplier machines. If you played one coin, they didn't do anything. If you played 2+ coins and got for example a 20 coin win, the game would pay 20 coins while stepping up the payout counter 20 times and the pay would stop briefly while the odds follower unit stepped up. If you needed more pay for additional coins, the payout counter was reset and it would pay again. Repeat for the number of coins played.
the 7 relay would typically power when you had 777 and may cause the game to lock up if the payout was higher than the game could pay.
the motor is a different story. Usually that was used if the game had a replay register so you could play credits instead of coins of if the game had some oddball feature like the flashing tunnel on a circus.
it's probable that no bally schematic will match your game. For maintenance, the ideal thing is try and figure out where the cabinet came from and whether the plug/socket wiring was hacked up.
anyway, look forward to seeing a lot of pictures. You'll have to do some reverse engineering to verify some circuits, but once you nail down a few details it should be simple enough to get things working well. Assuming they turned some parts into a 1088-like machine, you'd got a bunch of things in there that aren't being used.
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Wow.. thanks for the detailed info. I'm impressed someone was able to make the machine work with such a mismatched pile of parts. I don't see a lot of hacked wires really, just the 2-3 that are just hanging so far. I took a few pictures last night before I assembled everything. I'll go through my pics and email you a bunch of pictures today.
As far as fixing things, the only thing I've noticed so far from a gameplay standpoint, and since you mentioned the coin lockout - I did have a few coins not register and not get rejected. They just went into the hopper without being counted.
I don't know about how often reels are supposed to stop, or payouts or any of that.
Is this type of mismatched parts typical for these machines or was this a science experiment?
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when the casinos removed the machines from the floor, they were typically sold to refurbishers who overhauled and sold them to smaller casinos or overseas.
when a customer wanted a type of machine they didn't have available or a custom machine, the refurb folks assembled one from parts sourced from what they had and they usually used the schematic from bally for the target game and kept it as close as possible so maintenance was reasonable.
most of the machines are relatively simple ... you just have the mechanical gubbins for spinning the reels and the electrical circuits for releasing the handle, counting coins played, and paying out depending on where the reels stopped.
there's some stuff in the later machines that helped protect the casino from losing too much money in the case of a fault, but for home use you may not care if that stuff didn't work.
if a coin releases the handle, two more coins advance the lights on top to enable the payouts, the reels spin when the handle is pulled and the game pays correctly, it basically works. When something doesn't work, then ya dig into the circuits to figure out why. That's just a bit harder on your game if it doesn't match any schematic (mostly if the wire colors don't match), but the general idea of how it's supposed to work will be the same.
for example, on most games a single coin played would enabled all payouts via grey wire 90 connected to the reel 3 wiper board. If the reel wipers connected wire 90 to a trace on the payout counter disc, the payout relay powers and the pay happens.
on your game, wire 90 only feeds the cherry pay rivets. When you play the second coin, wire 91 from the coin unit disc is connected to the reels and enables more pays. The third coin adds wire 93 to the reels to enable the three bars pay (connects the 100 trace on the payout disc).
if ya look at the 1088 schematic, you can kinda see how the above works by following wires 90, 91 and 93 through the reels down to the payout counter disc traces. The reel wipers are drawn in the left side of the boxes showing which rivets get connected together.
coins not getting counted could be an issue with the coin switch or reliable stepping up of the coin/odds unit disc (the one with the most wipers). Use your finger to activate the coin switch and see if that's more reliable.
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Thanks for that info and the history.
--if a coin releases the handle, two more coins advance the lights on top to enable the payouts, the reels spin when the handle is pulled and the game pays correctly, it basically works. When something doesn't work, then ya dig into the circuits to figure out why. That's just a bit harder on your game if it doesn't match any schematic (mostly if the wire colors don't match), but the general idea of how it's supposed to work will be the same.
Thats perfect. I'm sure after playing it for a bit I'll start to learn more about how its working and if something isnt working.
I'm going to print the schematic in the link you posted. I'm starting to understand how the game works a bit. I'll send over some pictures in a bit.
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I pulled the reel assembly and took a bunch of pictures. I've attached the 3rd reel board wiring.
I noticed that the odds motor is disconnected. It does have the 7's relay like you mentioned. What models would have had this insert board?
On the hopper, the loose red wire is connected to the top right pin on the connector. Not sure where the loose end should be..
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I understand what the jones plugs are for. Whats with this wooden box?
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Looks like a hopper mod? Only info I saw was something written 1095 on the hopper.
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the wooden box is the chime unit.
not many games had a solid red (10) wire going to the hopper. The 883 arrow line did, and it would have had an old style hopper - which is what you have. The 1088 would have had a new style hopper.
the 883 did have an odds motor, 7 jackpot relay, anti-cheat relay and odds follower unit.
the 883 schem says the red wire (10-1) would connect the payout counter 20 trace to the odds unit. 10-1 would be the top-left red wire on the bigger jones plug in the top. Your jones plug wiring looks right for an 883 - ignoring obvious changes).
the 883 was a 4 reel game tho, so your reel mech would have been replaced.
the only reference to a 1095 I have says "union plaza dollar 2 coin play". No other info in my docs.
your reel 3 wiring agrees with the docs for a 1088 - at least the wired rivets are correct. Can't verify all the wire colors, but the ones that I can see/identify are right.
got a pic of the front of your top insert board (lamp side)?
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Here is a pic of the light board. You can see a mix of bulbs. Also looks like some sort of box was there to block the lights from bleeding through that is missing.
Also of a pic of the 1095. definitely handwritten, so who knows what it really means.
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Here is a stamp on the #1 score reel..
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can you measure how wide your reels are?
narrow reels are 1-3/4" wide.
intermediate are 2-3/8"
wide reels are 3-1/4"
there where some oddball sizes rarely used that were in between above sizes.
the index disc is right for a 1088. reels 3 would say 684-299
reel 2 could be a couple different things that would change the payback percentage:
- 684-298 = 93.17% - typically used on a dollar machine by cheapskate casinos as most dollar games at that time were in the upper 90s for payback
- 684-432 = 92.749% - used on the 25c 1088-13 (barbary coast casino). This would be a high payback percentage for a 25c machine.
would need to look at the reel tape definitions to see what the difference is between the 298 and 432 tapes/index discs.
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The reels are 2.33", so 2 3/8" width.
#1 - 684-297
#2 - 684-298
#3 - 684-299
I added a few pics of the jones plug sockets to the album.
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The more I play this, the dirtier the tokens (my fingers) are getting. Not sure if this is normal. Whats the best way to clean the hopper assembly? Any lubrication needed?
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the theory so far is the game is cobbled together from parts from a 833, 1008 and 1095 to form a 1088. The glass has been cut to fit the smaller cabinet. There's leftover 833 stuff in the game that is not used for a 1088 like the odds motor, odds follower unit, and a few relays.
while the glass has a window for a win meter, there is no win meter and no simple way to add one as the hopper is mechanically stepped. Conversion to electrically stepped payout counter or adding a switch someplace to count coins ejected/payout counter steps would be needed to pulse a win meter.
hi res pics from bubbaK are available at:
https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/custom_slots/1088%20-%20not/
https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/custom_slots/1088%20-%20not/imagegallery.php
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Thanks Wolftalk for all your help and info on this game. My wheels are turning on adding the switches to step up and reset a counter. I've already got a pile of parts mixed together. :idea_2:
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resetting a win meter is easy since you just tap into one of the coils that fires at reset ... e.g. the payout counter reset coil.
since your payout counter steps up once for every coin ejected, you may be able to add or tap onto a "step-up arm switch". Would need to see a picture of the ratchet/gear side of the payout counter.
if you haven't accessed that you, you remove the top screw/nut holding the payout counter frame to the hopper, then pull down the spring on the linkage connecting to the roller arm that the coin moves up/down as it exits the hopper.
with the spring pulled down, you can pull the linkage from the roller arm as you flip the entire payout counter down (it pivots on the lower screw in the frame if the lower screw is loose enough).
I did find a coin mech frame with the parts you need for the lockout coil (armature, spring, retaining plate and screws). Can ya take a pic of the left side of your mech frame (outside edge) or just check to see if you still have the plate and screws?
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Here are a few pictures of the coin mech area and the payout counter. While I had the counter down, I noticed one of the relays inside has a very old, leaking capacitor on it. Its a 30MFD 250vdc Cap.
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on the coin mech frame, you need the armature plate, retaining plate, screws and spring. I have all those for ya.
your payout counter has the extra cam and microswitch for a hopper cutoff relay circuit. How many relays do you have with capacitors and diodes on them?
you have the switches needed on the payout counter step-up arm to support a win meter. It's the same switch as would be used for a total out meter and the win meter step-up coil would be wired in parallel to the total out meter step-up coil.
in this case, I'd guess the white/yellow 53-2 wire on the step-up arm switch would attach to a win meter. That wire should be on the hopper plug if your cabinet is a 883, but you'd need to bring it to the door. There's probably available pin locations in the door molex/amphenol plugs to use for adding a wire if you have the crimp pins.
you already have wire 70 on the door, so you'd need 53-2 and a reset wire ... bally typically used 78-1 from reel mech B-1 switch which will be available on the reel mech plugs.
that just leaves whether a win meter would fit and sourcing the parts. If ya look in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1089/pics/ at the inside door pic, you can see how the meter is kinda long and you need a cutout in the lamp bracket. I'll dig into a parts box and see if I have anything.
the 5000 manual shows the meter and its mounting bracket on page 6.
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Thanks for the info. I only noticed one capacitor on a coil. I didn't see any diodes that I noticed. I'll take a closer look at it. I'll also get a better look at the space for the payout meter. I'm not sure if the depth will work. I think the payout window is only 1" wide.
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one end of the diode is attached to the coil. The other end may attach to a resistor or the hardness wire. Sometimes they are in sleeves so not as noticeable.
if the relay with the capacitor has switches with plastic coated wires on it, that's the safety delay relay.
if you have another relay with cap, resistor and diode, that could be a hopper cutoff relay. Usually one switch on the HCR has orange wire 70 and mating blade goes to the payout relay coil.
if you don't have a HCR, that's good. It's just a much faster acting circuit that does the same thing as the safety timer ... tries to detect pays that aren't being tracked correctly and shuts down the payout so the hopper contents aren't dumped out to the very happy player. Typically the HCR will cut off within a few coins if the payout counter is not stepping up when coins are being ejected from the hopper.
the HCR came about when they went to dollar games. Even small overpays become more significant then.