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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games => Topic started by: GadgetBob on April 03, 2015, 08:09:27 PM
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I have been reading a bit through this forum and being a slot newbie myself (dabbled in the Pachislo machines but this is my first IGT Slot) this seemed like a thread that could hopefully help me and allow me to stay on topic.
I recently purchased an IGT Triple Diamond Slot (I have been told it is an S+ model). The machine came without a bill validator or coin mech. I am looking to either 1. convert it in some way to just play with tokens or something else. or 2. acquire a bill validator and coin mech so I can play with it the way it was intended to be played. I have yet to graduate it from the garage to the game room where it will take residence where my latest Pachislo slot machine is because I can't really get it to do anything with it at the moment. I'm happy to spend some money on it to make it right but want to make sure I get the right parts and of course are buying stuff at the right prices. Hoping someone can give me a little guidance. I'm comfortable with a wrench, a voltmeter, PIC programmer, compilers etc.
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You made it over here, faster than I did!
Does your IGT machine currently have any type of coin acceptor or bill validator in it? Does your machine have a coin hopper?
Often it save time if you can post a picture or two of the machine, saves time asking some basic questions and the folks here better know what you are dealing with. At the bottom of any post you make there is a link called "Attachments and other options". You can click on that and then attach some photos.
People generally like to see a photo of the outside of the machine, then other photos of the areas in question, like inside of door for coin acceptor questions, photo of bill validator for those.
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Here are some pictures I have at the moment. No bill validator, no coin mech just the slot at the top.
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And two other photos
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Can you post photo of inside of door where coin acceptor or coin comparator would be located so we can see if cables and mounting hardware are there?
I'll let the other more experienced IGT experts take it from here. But generally it is easier & lower cost to just add a coin acceptor or coin comparator than to add a bill validator. The coin comparator or coin acceptor will work with either real coins or with tokens, your choice. It detects the coin or token you drop into the coin slot and puts a credit on the machine. A coin comparator uses electric power from the machine and does a better job of screening out invalid coins or tokens, which may not be a problem for the home user. I'm pretty sure both kinds are available for not too much.
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I will get my toy car out of the garage tomorrow (when it stops raining) and post some pictures of it. Thanks for the help. :)
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Someone has robbed the machine of the bill validator! And perhaps the coin Comparitor as well (we will see on that one). Bill validator, easy enough to find, you want a WBA-12-SS or WBA-13-SS, but it must be ID023/024 (the ID is the language it speaks, if you buy the wrong ID it will not work). Coin Comparitor, even easier.
I'm guessing you bought this as a "it used to work perfectly, we just havent played it in xxx years" , "I dont know anything about i, it was my xxxxxxxx's" or "I know nothing about it and just want to sell it". Not a problem, we can help you out!
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I have a couple of IGT S+ manuals to get you started.
The one attached below looks like the 99th photocopy but has good info.
The other manual I will attach on another post, or email if too large.
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I bought it at an auction. It came from a casino in Mississippi, and they probably kept those parts for one reason or another. Ended up also buying a silver strike bowling game, classic multi-game stand up as well. Needless to say the wife was not thrilled. Me and the guys... yep we are happy. :) If you know of someone to acquire these parts through, I am open to that. I could also do eBay since there seems to be a ton of things out there as well. I appreciate the input.
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.....I'm guessing you bought this as a "it used to work perfectly, we just havent played it in xxx years"...
Don't forget "it's heavy, that means it's probably full of quarters!"
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Full of Steel and power Supplies :)
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So something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-JCM-WBA-12SS-Bill-Acceptor-/171734953832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fc336f68 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-JCM-WBA-12SS-Bill-Acceptor-/171734953832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fc336f68)
BTW CV Slots I see that you sell some of this stuff. I completely appreciate the help and if these are parts you can furnish I'm good with dealing with you, up until just now eBay was my only place to find this stuff. However one person selling on eBay was nice enough to tell me about this website. :)
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GadgetBob, the 2nd manual I wanted to send you is the better one and it is a little too large to attach here to a post, I'm getting an error. If you can send me your email address I'll send it to you that way.
One thing to be aware of on bill validators is they all contain software to recognize the US paper money that gets inserted into them. Some of the older BV will have older software that only works with the old style bills that had the small head pictures of our leader. As you know the Treasury is taking all of those old bills out of circulation. So, if you buy a used BV you need to know if the software in it has been updated to take the newer bills with the big head pictures, and if not, is there new software available for it.
Some older models of BV only got software updates released up to a certain year, then no further because the company released newer BV models and didn't want to support the old models. You could buy a BV and find out it only takes the old bills, or only a few of the new bills, and then find out you can't get a newer software update for it to work with all the new bills. Something to ask about before buying. Not to scare you off this idea, just info.
Another thing to be aware of was already mentioned. The BV communicates with the slot machine cpu by using a proprietary comm protocol. Each slot manufacturer uses a different protocol (of course). This comm protocol is built-in to the software release in the BV that also does the bill recognition. So a software release might have the name like this: "ver 3.54-04-12 ID-022/023", meaning version 3.54 released April 2012 for machines using protocol ID-022/023. There will be a spec sheet on that software saying what bills it recognizes. Each new release works with whatever new bills the release is for, as well as all preceding bills.
These comm protocols are named similar to this: ID-003, ID-044, ID-023, etc. I think for an IGT S+ you can use the protocol called ID-022/023. It is BV software that contains two similar comm methods, there is a dipswitch on the BV to select the protocol you want to use. Someone will correct me if this is wrong, so stay tuned.
A BV used in older machines like yours was often one called a JCM DBV-200, but there are other models and brands also. The DBV-200 is still around but newer BV models came along afterwards that offer recognition of all current bills. As cvslots said, a popular one is the WBA series. At some point JCM stopped releasing software updates for the DBV-200 in the ID-022/023 protocol, but the last release may work with some denominations of new style bills that are popular, like $10 and $20 bills, and that would be fine for most home users. Also, since the $1 bill hasn't changed all BV will work with it.
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GadgetBob, the 2nd manual I wanted to send you is the better one and it is a little too large to attach here to a post, I'm getting an error. If you can send me your email address I'll send it to you that way. ...
Bigger manual is on the way, let me know if it doesn't arrive and I'll try again.
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.....BTW CV Slots I see that you sell some of this stuff. I completely appreciate the help and if these are parts you can furnish I'm good with dealing with you, up until just now eBay was my only place to find this stuff.....
The word is out, be sure she says "Yes, Master" at least once! :rotfl: :garfield:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=6010.msg32489#msg32489 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=6010.msg32489#msg32489)
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Here are some pictures I have at the moment. No bill validator, no coin mech just the slot at the top.
At least it looks like the bill validator cables are still there. Maybe someone can id them and know what BV was in there before. Might make for an easier install to get the same model, provided the replacement BV has updated software for newer bills.
The casinos sometimes keep those parts since they frequently are needed on other slots due to maintenance.
I reposted your picture below to catch someone's attention about the BV cables. Not sure but you might need to get other cables if you install a different model BV than what was in there previously.
Another thing, I noticed that your reels have some odd numbering with the orange stickers (see below). I'm not very familiar with IGT but I'd think the reels would be numbered 1,2,3 from left to right. This is done so slot techs will get the reels back in the correct location, as the strips can have different symbols. Yours are numbered 3,2,2. :Scratch-Head:
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The word is out, be sure she says to you "Yes, Master" at least once! :I_agree_1: :clap: :WeirdEyes:
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I'm certainly not an expert on this but doesn't look like a WBA acceptor cage. A dbv maybe? The screws on front and the harness on the side are different than my wba's. Welcome to NLG! Also I have an S+ triple diamond and the reels are numbered 1-2-3.
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I'm certainly not an expert on this but doesn't look like a WBA acceptor cage. A dbv maybe? The screws on front and the harness on the side are different than my wba's. Welcome to NLG! Also I have an S+ triple diamond and the reels are numbered 1-2-3.
I'm wondering if a casino slot tech (or someone else) swapped some reels between other machines and this one. That would explain the odd reel numbering. They could have done that just to get a machine working. Or it could have been done just to complete the machine when it was ready for sale. Hopefully all the reels work ok.
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I did notice the reel numbers and thought that was a bit odd, figured one or two failed over the years of service. I guess once I get it running I will know the condition of the reels.
Also here is the picture of the door (where the con acceptor would normally be.
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I think the coin acceptor would mount in the area circled by yellow in photo below. Not sure, but you may also need a metal plate or bracket to hold the coin acceptor, hopefully not.
The disconnected cables on your door I've circled for others to comment on. There is usually a power cable that goes to the coin acceptor. And below the coin acceptor some machines have what is called an optics board which has a cable going to it. The coin comparator rejects everything that doesn't match the sample coin/token installed in it. After the good coin/token passes thru the coin comparator it drops past an optics board. This board is connected to the mpu (cpu) board and lets it know when a good coin has been inserted into machine so a credit can be added for play. After passing the optics board the good coin/token slides into the coin hopper located in bottom area of machine. The coin comparator has another path for rejected coins, they are dropped into the front tray to give back to the player.
The coin comparator often looks similar to the photo below, although this is not one in a machine like yours it will give you an idea what they look like. They come in different versions and operating voltages. You insert a sample coin or token under the round sliding door and the comparator then only accepts that type of coin/token.
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Here's one from mine:
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So something like this?
[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-JCM-WBA-12SS-Bill-Acceptor-/171734953832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fc336f68[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-JCM-WBA-12SS-Bill-Acceptor-/171734953832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fc336f68[/url])
BTW CV Slots I see that you sell some of this stuff. I completely appreciate the help and if these are parts you can furnish I'm good with dealing with you, up until just now eBay was my only place to find this stuff. However one person selling on eBay was nice enough to tell me about this website. :)
The eBay listing you show will work, although I will have a heart attack if you actually pay the $38 shipping...
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You will need the coin bracket with optics for S+ and the pigtail harness for the comparator and a comparator. If CV doesn't have what you need send a message to CP in Texas. Chris had a few left. You can find him in our members list. How many machines did you just get? I see at least 3 in your picture.
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On his bill validator situation, can anyone tell by the cables in his machine's BV area (photo below) what model BV was in there before? If it was a DBV-200 was the last ID-022/023 (IGT) software release of any use, will it at least work with the new $10 and $20 bills? If so this might be his lowest cost way to use paper money with the machine.
Otherwise he is looking at a WBA setup which means new cables right?? And will the WBA install into the DBV housing, just needs WBA and transport and cables?
I'm sure he'd like to hear his choices on the BV situation.
Also, there is a white 2-wire connector in the photo above the bill validator area, is this for a security switch in the cash compartment or something else?
I got the spec document for the last JCM software update for DBV-200 SS ID-022/023, it is attached. I can never be sure I'm reading these things right but it looks like it works with bills of design from 2004 and earlier. Are these the bills we still see in circulation now and is this the correct software document for the S+ ? If the DBV software is a dead end then that settles it, will have to install a WBA unit.
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I think he will have to change the cage, bill stacker, b/v, and harness to go to to a WBA system. And probably the bezel also. Not a lot of money but basically a complete change. And if he goes to a wba 12 or 13 he will need software either flash (12) or eprom (13) to get the the right combo. S+ is ido 22/23. Which uses 1mb chip (I believe). The wba 12 or 13 uses a 4 mb chip that is ido 24 that will need to be programmed to 22/23. Sounds kinda crazy but that 's what makes it work. If I've missed or skipped something here please chime in as I don't want to steer them wrong.
Probably the validator power supply also.
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Shaggy- Does this coin comparator mounting bracket with optics look like yours on the S+ ?
http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=39&product_id=2595 (http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=39&product_id=2595)
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Darrell at CVSlots will take care of you. He is good honest people. He always take care of us.
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Shaggy- Does this coin comparator mounting bracket with optics look like yours on the S+ ?
[url]http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=39&product_id=2595[/url] ([url]http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=39&product_id=2595[/url])
Yes that looks just like mine.
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CV Slots are good people and can help you with most if not all of what you need. John
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Bob, you have a major job ahead of you:
You have a old style DBV145/200 set up, to change to a WBA you will need:
head and transport and duckbill and software for a S+, transport shelf assembly and harness for a WBA 12, power supply for WBA unit, door bezel for a WBA, a cash can for a WBA, and a two pin connector for the door bezel lighting.
coin in : bracket to attach the housing too: (can't tell if its there) the housing itself with 4 plastic coin comp. holders and coin in optics. looks like the harness is there ( can't see if the harness is complete) and a 24vac -16d coin comp.
door optics, black plastic holder and mounting hardware.
board, and two game chips
set and clear chip
this is just for starters, I can provide all these tested and working parts.
looks like the glass and strips are after market, that shouldn't matter .
Jim
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.....
board, and two game chips
The mpu circuit board is missing?? Where would it be mounted, under the reels shelf or over on a sidewall maybe? Are there other circuit boards in his S+ that may be missing also, like I/O board, power supply, sound, message display board, etc?
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Good spot on the Board. I had looked for the hopper and stopped there. Hope he got the machine for under $100. probably put another 150 to 200 in it.
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Thanks everyone for the comments, although I still am processing it all. Had a death in the family this week that kind of slowed things down for me. That and I'm getting on a cruise ship in about a week, so things are a bit hectic.
There were a few questions for me that I saw. First thing is that I only purchased one and it was at auction. I picked the unit up for around $145 after buyers premium, etc. Regardless of whether or not it was a good, well the deal is done so I work with what I have. :)
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With a reckless use of the tab button I posted that before I finished it. :)
The rest continues:
As for what I want out of it, I really just want it to play. Accepting bills and coins would be cool but like I mentioned I have worked on a few Pachislo slot machines so I'm basically over the coin dumping etc. I just want to make it work so I can add credits to it and play it. I don't mind putting money into it, just not wasted money (in other words I don't want to throw so much at the machine that when I sell it (and I will sell it and buy another one)) I take a major beating. Now of course if I'm already behind the 8-ball with a missing controller board (which sounds pretty much like something that won't make me happy), then perhaps I may need to rethink the project altogether.
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The S+'s are built like tanks. Once you get them going, hardly anything goes wrong with them. Casino's would probably have kept them going if it wasn't for the fact that they all wanted to move away from coin handling and IGT never provided a path to do that with this platform. You can still see some of these in Vegas downtown casinos. You are already $150 into it, it will take at least $200 in parts to get a working MPU board with the correct software, a WBA 12/13 setup (power supply, cage, bezel, etc.), the missing parts of the coin-in assembly. Assuming the rest of the parts in the machine are working, $350 is still under what you can get a fully fully shopped S+ (though not by much).
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Thanks everyone for the comments, although I still am processing it all. Had a death in the family this week that kind of slowed things down for me. That and I'm getting on a cruise ship in about a week, so things are a bit hectic.
There were a few questions for me that I saw. First thing is that I only purchased one and it was at auction. I picked the unit up for around $145 after buyers premium, etc. Regardless of whether or not it was a good, well the deal is done so I work with what I have. :)
Condolences on the death in your family. There's never a good time for that to happen.
I've paid more than I wish I had sometimes on stuff that I just wanted to have or got caught up in the buying process. It is easy to do when the item is something that prices aren't familiar, and really it varies on what part of the country you are in as to what your machine would sell for elsewhere. Naturally a lot of the regulars here on NLG are very familiar with slots and pretty much bargain hunters so anything over $100 for an older used machine is high. I would say there's some cheap ba$tards (and ba$tardnettes) here, but in fairness I'm about the same. :wave:
Your machine is not the typical one we see here that somebody owned and it was working for a while, then it stopped and they want to fix it, or they sold it and the new owner wants to fix it. Yours had some of its parts removed and then it was put up for sale, incomplete. Because of this you might want to show some pictures of the cabinet interior with the hopper and the reels removed so people can see exactly what is there and what might be missing. That way you'll know what you are in for to get it working.
Like they say, all things are possible, it just takes money & time.
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I agree on the all things are possible with Money and Time. I own a custom installation business (Smarthomes, Home Theaters, etc. :) )
I certainly don't know much about these machines (but of course that's the allure). I will likely take those pictures and post them when I return from the Bahamas. I'm not sure what the MPU looks like, however there aren't any large groups of unplugged plugs that I would associate to a missing controller. There are a bunch of power supply plugs (plugged in vertically) behind the cash box area. And there is a large collection of harnesses that come down in back of the coin hopper. They look like they had a metal noise shield over them at some point, but now that shield has been removed. I honestly can't see behind the hopper very easily without putting a huge gash in the door of my convertible, however I imagine that I will likely find that there is a controller board back there. I will let everyone know how that pans out.
I really appreciate how everyone here is so willing to help a newbie like me.
And as for the condolences, thank you. Grandfather, one day shy of his 93rd... If we could all be so lucky as to last that long and be up and walking around up until a week before. :)
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There is plenty of help here so just ask when you want to know about something. The controller or main system board in slots is often referred to as the "mpu board" and sometimes the "cpu board". Below is an example photo of an IGT mpu board, I think it is for an S+. Notice it is mounted to a metal shield. The larger white connectors on the edge are what connects it to the interconnect board (motherboard). These mpu boards came in at least two varieties, early ones had a speed of 10 mhz and later ones 16 mhz. That may not be a concern, either may work ok in your machine, others can tell us about that.
Plugged into the mpu board are chips that contain the game software and the machine's operating software. These chips are in sockets and can be changed if you want to change the game theme or sometimes to add improvements. Sometimes when the machine has a problem, like dead battery or power supply failure, or if you change the game theme chips you will need to clear memory and reset settings. To clear and set things there are chips most owners acquire in case they want to make changes. These chips are plugged into the mpu when needed, then removed and the game chips reinstalled.
The mpu board plugs into an smaller interconnect board, it is often called the "motherboard" because nearly everything else plugs into or connects to it directly or thru cabling. I *think* your motherboard will be located behind the hopper on the bottom floor of the cabinet, and the mpu board will plug into it standing vertically. It will then be in front of all that wiring you see along the back wall of the bottom area behind the hopper.
In your photos that black box on the right, below the reels, looks like the power supply for the bill validator. Some machines main power supply provides the power the BV needs, other machines don't and they have a BV power supply.
I'm not an expert on your machine and still learning, so standby for any corrections to what I've said.
Enjoy your cruise - hope for great weather!
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If he just wants it to work, regarding the bill validator, I think it makes a LOT more sense to just reinstall a DBV 200. I have a few like that and they're just fine for home use taking 1's and 20's.
The WBA's are great but what's the point of adding a lot more time and cost here?
The only thing though is to check the power supply to make sure it's for a DBV 200 and not a 145.
The 200 looks like this, with the vents.
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Well sometimes you win, and Sometimes... Some jerk pulls the main CPU and leaves you with a metal box with some wires and a couple of lights. Anyone have any suggestions?
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I think you are looking at arou d$200 (max $250) to put it back together. MPU is only $50-60, DBV, worst case $150???
Might as well out it back together, as you have 85% of the unit! Cap BV off if you don't want invest in to, and keep it coin only. That would be one way to go if you were unsure of the final stability of the machine. Get a good MPU and go from there. Otherwise, you're looking at a $25 hunk of scrap metal, as that's probably the only market that would be interested. You MAY find someone to take it on as a project, but ???
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It's heartbreaking but it happens. You might sell it as a parts machine if someone needed the metal chassis parts or other parts in it and recover some of your investment in it. The motherboard is in there and they sell for more than you'd expect, plus the stepper reels, main power supply, the vented BV power supply, hopper, etc. Or someone you know might want to take it on as a project if you don't want to. Or you can shop carefully and cheaply and get it running on a budget, make a list of the absolute least parts you need to get it working. Don't get in a hurry, wait for a deal on whatever parts you need. People here will guide you along if you decide to do this. Sometimes parts can be found for less than average rates, including from the dealers/resellers here on NLG.
No one is going to blame you if you decide to not go forward on it. But it could just be a matter of a few parts and it will play.
At least the interconnect (motherboard) is there. If not in a big hurry you can sometimes find S+ mpu boards for $50 and less. For example:
http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=89&product_id=3329 (http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=89&product_id=3329)
http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=89&product_id=3546 (http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=89&product_id=3546)
and they come up on ebay too.
You'll need the game chips to match your reel strips. (game and reel eproms). Someone here could steer you on that. I'm guessing $15 each but it can vary depending on the source.
You'll need to add up what it would cost to get either 1) the coin acceptor parts installed or 2) reinstall whatever bill validator was in there to take advantage of already having the BV power supply, BV housing and cash compartment. Go with whichever is the lower cost for it to accept money to play.
Of course no one knows if the 3 reel stepper motors are ok and if the main power supply is ok. Would be good to remove the reels (they just slide forward after getting released) and take picture of that area so we can see if anything else is awry.
You can go back and reread this thread from the beginning, see what everyone has said and work up a plan. Ask additional questions if needed to clarify something. On the bright side you will learn a lot about the machine and slot machines in general by getting it back to working condition.
I brightened your last photo so I could see some details in the shadows better.
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I guess if it was me, I'd forget the b/v, get a 10mhz mpu and an 1137 sp chip a 4785 ss chip and then tokenize the machine to take quarters up to 99 credits each. That way 10 quarters equals 990 credits. You'll still need the comparitor but then it's easy to add credits without bills. My triple diamond is set up that way and I really like it. The sp 1137 allows you set up the game for a few different styles of play. I prefer the tokenization personally. Yeah you're going to have a little money in it but my t/d is one of my favorites. The strips can always be figured out, I'd concentrate on the machine first.
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Here is what I would be able to provide:
WBA head and transport/software /either flash or eprom 55.00 head duckbill 12.00, shelf and harness 20.00 power supply 30.00 door bezel 12.00 cash can 12.00 connector N/C. total for WBA 141.00
board with chips, and new battery, tested and working with clear and set chips 100.00
coin in, bracket 8.00, housing and coin comp 55.00
coin optic/housing N/C.
141+ 100+63= 304+ shipping.
Jim
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Jim, That sounds pretty complete. I guess the question is what else would I need that you can't provide?
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without seeing the machine, this could get your machine running. YOU DO NOT NEED A BILL ACCEPTOR. the machine will function without it. that's up to you.
the board is a necessity, you could possibly circumvent the coin in as well. or you could take what's behind door #3 sell the parts you can sell from that machine and buy a S-2000, what you have in the machine now plus the parts, plus the unknown, could put you up around 500.00 +, I would think you could find a complete working machine for that price. the door optics are a necessity as well.
what ever you decide to do , either I or someone else on this site will be able to help you.
Jim
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Jim, you are a one stop shop. You put a lot of thought into his needs. Do you have a website?