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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Other Reel Games => Topic started by: shortrackskater on July 21, 2015, 10:03:20 AM
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I'm working on a Mills mechanism. (Okay it's really a SEGA )
I'm a novice with mechanical slots. Originally it would not pay out at all. I realized the safety slide wasn't releasing. It would work if I manually pressed it with some force so I spent some time cleaning the entire area. It looked like a burr had built up where the payout "finger" pushes away to release the slide so I lightly filed both surfaces. With that and replacing the finger spring, it was able to release the slide at one end and also allow the finger to go into the disk, next to the reels.
Here's the problem:
It only pays on one or two cherries, where there's the hole in the disk. My photo shows a three plum "win" but the finger doesn't line up to initiate the pay out. It looks almost like it would, if I bent it or moved it one spot over. I don't want to start bending and filing too much here yet! Can anyone fill me in?
Update - I can't bend that finger. Otherwise it would not line up for the cherry payout. It's seems as if the reel disk things are set up so that it could never pay out except for cherry wins.
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Man, you have the strangest reel disks that I have ever seen! But I think they are ok, but those notches in the disks have been ground in there by someone for some reason. You see the lever that comes in under the 3 reel disks, that lever just holds the three disks from moving around while the reel kicker on the other side of the machine is moving to grab the three disks and kick them off. So someone has ground the disks in more so the lever can go in further then needed for some reason? Anyway that is not you question so lets get back at it here.
The safety slide: You need a safety slide as a spacer yes, but you don't need it to work. What I do is pull the safety slide forward until the safety slide lever under the mechanism will snap over and lock the safety slide and hold it forward, then I tye-wire it so it can never release the safety slide again. I tye wire the lever over so it can not release the safety slide to snap back again. Soo much for the safety slide.....
Now what is going one with the payouts? not sure what you mean when talking about bending, maybe you are saying that when you have three plums that the plum finger is not lined up with the plum holes in the reel disks? Is that what is going on?? Here lets see if this helps, the outside finger is for cherries pays, the next finger in is for oranges, the third finger in is for plums, forth finger in is for bells, the 5th and last finger in is for the bars or jackpot. Does that help? The disks: holes that are out to the very outside of the disks are for cherries, holes that are all the way in closest to the center are for jackpots, all the rest are spaced for the other payout fingers.
OK, knowing this information try to explain what is wrong one more time to me if you would, as I am a slow learner when it come to seeing this problem and what is wrong. Send me any photos that you want, I will be happy to help you clear this problem up.
Jackpot
Rodger Knutson :mail_2:
Http://www.coinslots.com (http://www.coinslots.com)
Rodger@coinslots.com
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I'm working on a Mills mechanism. I'm a novice with mechanical slots. Originally it would not pay out at all. I realized the safety slide wasn't releasing. It would work if I manually pressed it with some force so I spent some time cleaning the entire area. It looked like a burr had built up where the payout "finger" pushes away to release the slide so I lightly filed both surfaces. With that and replacing the finger spring, it was able to release the slide at one end and also allow the finger to go into the disk, next to the reels.
Here's the problem:
It only pays on one or two cherries, where there's the hole in the disk. My photo shows a three plum "win" but the finger doesn't line up to initiate the pay out. It looks almost like it would, if I bent it or moved it one spot over. I don't want to start bending and filing too much here yet! Can anyone fill me in?
Update - I can't bend that finger. Otherwise it would not line up for the cherry payout. It's seems as if the reel disk things are set up so that it could never pay out except for cherry wins.
By looking at your photos again and reading what your saying, I see and wonder about a couple more things. What kind of machine is this? Is it a hi top with 7's? I see your disks are slotted and not round holes, so you have a reel bundle for a later game with maybe extra pays, this is one reason for the slotted holes and not the round ones. Also it sounds like maybe all the payout fingers are off about the same on you machine right, not just the cherries hole. If they (the vertical fingers) are all off about the same amounts, it could be one or a few things, maybe the finger guide frame which holds the vertical fingers is mounted wrong (very unlikely), wrong finger guide but this would be a first, wrong reel bundle or desk set for your vertical fingers set? (Maybe). I bet this is why someone was trying to modify the disks, where the lever holds the disks for kick off. Maybe someone trying to fix something that they knew nothing about and that would explain the grinding that I see. OK so all the fingers are off by about the same right? So now what to do? Can you get or boarrow another reel bundle with round holes insted of slots to try on your machine somewhere? Just to see if this corrects all these problems. You run into everything you can think of when working on these old machines, but this is a new one for me. So I am guessing that this maybe has maybe a wrong reel bundle set in it, but i am really not even sure of this yet. I think I might have a slotted reel bundle set around here somewhere maybe. If I can fine it I'll try it in a machine that I know uses the round holes and see what happens, maybe all the vertical fingers will all be off by just bit or the same amount for payouts. I don't know for sure, and I want to see if this might be the answer to your hell here.
Jackpot :banghead:
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:thank_you: :thank_you:
Okay ... first I apologize for fibbing a little here! I was afraid if I said SEGA that no one would ever answer. But I know the mechanism is essentially a Mills... however there's one more thing. It's a ...uh... Skill Stop and probably a very early one. Here's more pictures... I'll post back in a sec and reply.
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Okay I tied off the safety slide... played it... and now - each time, no matter what the symbols are, it pays [big]two[/big] on the NEXT pull!
I'm lost. I'll re-read your replies though and see if I can sink some more info in!
I'm trying to compare this to my (actual!) Mills M head mechanism. It's throwing me off more...
I thought the safety slide must release on each win? On my M head with a three orange win, the slide released while the arm was NOT going through the reel bundle. On the Sega it seems to be "locked" for all other wins other than the cherries.
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:thank_you: :thank_you:
Okay ... first I apologize for fibbing a little here! I was afraid if I said SEGA that no one would ever answer. But I know the mechanism is essentially a Mills... however there's one more thing. It's a ...uh... Skill Stop and probably a very early one. Here's more pictures... I'll post back in a sec and reply.
LOL, now I can understand a little more...., Sega, yes not a Mills, but parts stamped with original Mills dies but some different parts. So this really helps a lot here. Now I think you should have the right reel bundle. Sega's vertical fingers set up can be different then the Mills set up. Sega sometimes uses a few extra vertical fingers. When using a Sega mechanism in a mills machine, sometimes you need to pull these extra vertical fingers out. The extra ones are thinner then the regular fingers. So, that being said what is the problem here, things are getting stranger now as to why these vertical payout fingers are not lining up with the payout disks, payout sensing holes. :duh: :banghead:
Jackpot
Note:
I just seen your post about the safety slide, and now it's paying two coins on each play with the safety slide locked open. That is strange and maybe a Sega thing. You can do this with a Mills with no problem, but maybe not with a Sega as you made a problem by doing this. I don't have a Sega here right now to be sure this will work on them. So if your safety slide is working OK, maybe just not tie it right now until we figure out the payout problems your having. I think I am going to have to ponder this for a bit and get back later. Do you know how to set up a jackpot pay, stop and hold the clock fan right after kick off, line up the reels to show a 3 bars and then let the fan go. Try doing this so you can see if it will payout out on a jackpot, and see if all the payout slides have moved in to pay a jackpot. Then see if the inside vertical finger has in fact, gone through all three disks in the hole closest to the axle, see if this works, and works OK. We need to start somewhere and this will tell us a lot.
Jackpot
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Okay I tied off the safety slide... played it... and now - each time, no matter what the symbols are, it pays [big]two[/big] on the NEXT pull!
I'm lost. I'll re-read your replies though and see if I can sink some more info in!
I'm trying to compare this to my (actual!) Mills M head mechanism. It's throwing me off more...
I thought the safety slide must release on each win? On my M head with a three orange win, the slide released while the arm was NOT going through the reel bundle. On the Sega it seems to be "locked" for all other wins other than the cherries.
Can you move the slides ok, they need to be free to move and sometime a slide stack can be pinched and none of the slides might not be able to move freely with just the help of the slide springs. when you play just the mechanism and look at the slides, they should be pushed out and then snap back in a little, are they doing that ok? Stop: Try that jackpot Pay and then we will know is the slide stack is working ok.
JP
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I'm going to try answering in order here...but I've got anther question.
First... just playing the M head has helped me a bit.
Since the M head payed out on three oranges without the safety slide vertical finger moving, I'm assuming that means that the other finger (for the payout) does the job? It would have to.
I removed the ties holding the safety slide open and now it's back to paying on cherries only.
Hang on... I MUST eat lunch... have to work this evening at 3 so there may be a slight delay. But I WILL get back tonight at the latest.
On this Sega... I can line up wins combinations easily since it "freespins" until I push the buttons. What I do is just line up the symbols (back door off) and then press the buttons. After the third button, a solenoid releases the fan.
Just lined up a three bell win and one of the vertical fingers goes all the way through...but safety slide closed.
Finally I can remove the mechanism and manually release each slide... they all seem free... coins fall out each time. Darn... I have to get to work.
I'll be back.
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I'm going to try answering in order here...but I've got anther question.
First... just playing the M head has helped me a bit.
Since the M head payed out on three oranges without the safety slide vertical finger moving, I'm assuming that means that the other finger (for the payout) does the job? It would have to.
I removed the ties holding the safety slide open and now it's back to paying on cherries only.
Hang on... I MUST eat lunch... have to work this evening at 3 so there may be a slight delay. But I WILL get back tonight at the latest.
On this Sega... I can line up wins combinations easily since it "freespins" until I push the buttons. What I do is just line up the symbols (back door off) and then press the buttons. After the third button, a solenoid releases the fan.
Just lined up a three bell win and one of the vertical fingers goes all the way through...but safety slide closed.
OK, great, so it payed out the jackpot right? or did the safety slide pervent the payout? The safety slide is only a anti cheat item. If you bang the machine around the safety slide should snap closed to prevent payout, or if you try spooning it by going up the payout cup it should snap closed, it just shuts off any chance at payouts until the game is played again, that is why it is called the safety slide and why you can wire it open with no effect. That is a cool skill stop item, never seen a Sega with that. I take it then if you don't push the skill stop buttons, the reels will not lock right? Next try lining up the three bells and see if the next payout finger in line will go through all three disks for the bell payout.
Jackpot
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I'm going to try answering in order here...but I've got anther question.
First... just playing the M head has helped me a bit.
Since the M head payed out on three oranges without the safety slide vertical finger moving, I'm assuming that means that the other finger (for the payout) does the job? It would have to.
I removed the ties holding the safety slide open and now it's back to paying on cherries only.
Hang on... I MUST eat lunch... have to work this evening at 3 so there may be a slight delay. But I WILL get back tonight at the latest.
On this Sega... I can line up wins combinations easily since it "freespins" until I push the buttons. What I do is just line up the symbols (back door off) and then press the buttons. After the third button, a solenoid releases the fan.
Just lined up a three bell win and one of the vertical fingers goes all the way through...but safety slide closed.
OK, great, so it payed out the jackpot right? or did the safety slide pervent the payout? The safety slide is only a anti cheat item. If you bang the machine around the safety slide should snap closed to prevent payout, or if you try spooning it by going up the payout cup it should snap closed, it just shuts off any chance at payouts until the game is played again, that is why it is called the safety slide and why you can wire it open with no effect. That is a cool skill stop item, never seen a Sega with that. I take it then if you don't push the skill stop buttons, the reels will not lock right? Next try lining up the three bells and see if the next payout finger in line will go through all three disks for the bell payout.
Jackpot
No ... the safety slide is preventing payouts other than cherries. The vertical fingers seem to go through the plates where they should but nothing else happens. Must leave for work... darn! I'd rather play with this oddity. :hissyfit:
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I'm going to try answering in order here...but I've got anther question.
First... just playing the M head has helped me a bit.
Since the M head payed out on three oranges without the safety slide vertical finger moving, I'm assuming that means that the other finger (for the payout) does the job? It would have to.
I removed the ties holding the safety slide open and now it's back to paying on cherries only.
Hang on... I MUST eat lunch... have to work this evening at 3 so there may be a slight delay. But I WILL get back tonight at the latest.
On this Sega... I can line up wins combinations easily since it "freespins" until I push the buttons. What I do is just line up the symbols (back door off) and then press the buttons. After the third button, a solenoid releases the fan.
Just lined up a three bell win and one of the vertical fingers goes all the way through...but safety slide closed.
OK, great, so it payed out the jackpot right? or did the safety slide pervent the payout? The safety slide is only a anti cheat item. If you bang the machine around the safety slide should snap closed to prevent payout, or if you try spooning it by going up the payout cup it should snap closed, it just shuts off any chance at payouts until the game is played again, that is why it is called the safety slide and why you can wire it open with no effect. That is a cool skill stop item, never seen a Sega with that. I take it then if you don't push the skill stop buttons, the reels will not lock right? Next try lining up the three bells and see if the next payout finger in line will go through all three disks for the bell payout.
Jackpot
No ... the safety slide is preventing payouts other than cherries. The vertical fingers seem to go through the plates where they should but nothing else happens. Must leave for work... darn! I'd rather play with this oddity. :hissyfit:
OK, then I would make sure the safety slide is locked open again by moving it forward all the way, you can do this from under the mechanism at the hole where the coins drop out, you can use your finger and shove the safety slide all the way forward and you will see the arm under the mechanism lock behind the safety slide from under the mechanism also, once it is locked open tie that arm over so it can not release this slide again. I run a tie wire around the arm and through the spring, then through the springs cotter key and tie it tight, the wire is hard to see and the arm can't move anymore so the safety slide will stay locked open. Then try doing the payouts again starting with the three bars, then bells, then plums, etc., now you should get a payouts as the safety slide can't close to prevent the coins from being payed out.
Jackpot :lol:
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Hi! Back from work... ugh! Evening jobs are a pain sometimes...
Okay as for the that slide... I did this in the beginning. I tied off the slide and set up various payouts. None paid (including cherries) but the next pull produced a "false win" of two coins. This happens on every spin, win or not. I wasn't sure what to do after this point.
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Hi! Back from work... ugh! Evening jobs are a pain sometimes...
Okay as for the that slide... I did this in the beginning. I tied off the slide and set up various payouts. None paid (including cherries) but the next pull produced a "false win" of two coins. This happens on every spin, win or not. I wasn't sure what to do after this point.
If, or when you have the jackpot or 3 bells set, and you see that the finger does go through all 3 reel disks, and I assume that all the payout slides go all the way in, right, but no payout? Now look under the mechanism and see what is stopping the payout, look in the hole where the coins fall out of the mechanism. if it is closed off and you can't see in there, then it is a problem with the safety slide and if you move it and the coins should fall out, if not the safety slide, then you should be able to look all the way inside and see inside the holes for coins in all the slides where the coins should be. maybe there is no coins left to drop out but if you have a jackpot set up, you should be able to see from the hole in the bottom of the mechanism, all the way up to where you see part of the bottom of the coin tube.
Soo... what did you see?
Jackpot
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I would look to see if the arms for 3 bells go thru the index discs, if so, does the bottom of the arms move the release levers off the slides. You can chack this by holding the fan and than set the bells up and hit the stops, (which are the first ones I have ever seen... European machine). Before releasing the fan, move the selector arm back and forth thru the holes and while doing this, see if it moves the release arms away from the slides. This should tell you if the winning combination will pay. As far as the 2 coin pay everytime, do the same but you have to make sure when the arm goes thru the disc, it doesnt release the slides before it should. Sometimes they will be out of adjustment and even it it hits the index disc, it will still release the slide. Havent worked on a Sega since the late 70's.
Hope it helps .... thats all I know
Dave F
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Okay I cycled the machine with the three bell payout. Removed the mechanism... released the safety slide and two coins came out. The arm is going through the reel bundle and I followed that down and pressed hard on it and 12 more coins released. It should have been 18 but at least some came out.
I'm just wondering if all this needs to come out and get a good cleaning? I've never taken apart one of these.
Sorry for short answer here... I"m headed to the Orange County Fair to see the Steve Miller band! I'll be back Saturday afternoon.
Thanks for the help jackpot and fatman too.
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I hope you get a chance to "Fly like n Eagle" while you there ... as long as someone who isnt gets to drive home... enjoy... got to be awesome
Dave
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Back to the issue at hand ... If the timing for the cycle is too fast, it can lock things down before it gets a chance to alloy the levers to be removed from the slides.
Something to look at.
Dave
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Okay I cycled the machine with the three bell payout. Removed the mechanism... released the safety slide and two coins came out. The arm is going through the reel bundle and I followed that down and pressed hard on it and 12 more coins released. It should have been 18 but at least some came out.
I'm just wondering if all this needs to come out and get a good cleaning? I've never taken apart one of these.
Sorry for short answer here... I"m headed to the Orange County Fair to see the Steve Miller band! I'll be back Saturday afternoon.
Thanks for the help jackpot and fatman too.
Have fun at the show. So.., now your on your way with fixing this problem your having. By pushing harder on the finger you got it to release the rest of the slides for proper payout. Now you need to see why this vertical arm did not move all the horizontal fingers over enough to clear the slides and allowing the slides to move in for propper payout. It could be weak finger springs, or the main slide holding bar that goes in behind the slides on the inside of the mechanism to hold all the slides forward, while the fingers can do their job during payout, this bar moves out after the fingers have had enough time to move in for payout position. Then the bar moves out of the way from holding all the slides forward, and allows all the slides all snap back, some being stopped for none payout and others going in all the way if there is a smaller payout. I believe this slide holding bar or lever, is you fifth click. The first 3 clicks are the reels indexing, 4th are the fingers releasing, and the 5th are the slides moving in for payout. So if you look at the inside (clock side) of your slides and to the back of them before the 5 click, you will see this lever moving out of the way and causing the 5th click and payout. If for some reason this lever is not going behind the slides as you first pull the handle, you will have problems. There is a way to adjust how far your slides move forward also if needed. If you get a constent, 2 coin payout, then you may have to bend the foot of the outside vertical finger until you get it adjusted right. The finger is cut down thinner at the bottom where the foot is, and it is easier to bend there by wedging something in there to hold the bottom of the finger while you force the top in or out for a bending adjustment.
Jackpot :applause: :applause: :wave:
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I'm a little confused... sometimes I just need to play with my mechanism and then I see what you mean.
I did find a bar that is held with one screw and it was preventing that last slide, for higher payouts.
I just loosened it a bit and pushed the bar more parallel with what it's mounted on and that last slide activated.
Now it's payout out properly, at least for the bells... BUT...those vertical fingers aren't pushing hard enough to release the slides. I don't think it's the fingers though. I think it's the slides. If I press firmly they release properly. Hope this makes sense.
(Oh... Dave and Jackpot... Steve Miller was GREAT!!! - lots of 60 - 70 year old pot smoking hippies there!)
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What a great time ....If you can stop the clock before the final click, you should see the release levers should move very freely like the fingers were pushing the away from the back sides of the slides. If not .... keep the clock locked up and look deeply into where the drag could be. Sometimes the adjustments are done too tight and it locks down arms that should move freely. Also the post that holds them could be crusty-rusty and or bent causing the arms not to move as required. I mentioned the timing, I had an issue where the timing ares moved faster than they should and before the y gave the unit to process the discs and the arm position, it passes it and locks them out. and not allowing them to move to release the slides. Send me a PM and I will call you to try to get this right for you. I am in the Philly area.
Dave
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Okay I adjusted this guide and it started paying out... but for three oranges, it paid 14 instead of 10. But hey that's better than nothing. So I'm going to fiddle around with this and see what I can do.
UPDATE: Guess that was a fluke! I can't get it to pay again now... still sticking.
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Honestly feel that if this a dime machine now ..... that it was a European 6 pence which will operate with dime but allow more than what it should by a coin or two
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Okay I adjusted this guide and it started paying out... but for three oranges, it paid 14 instead of 10. But hey that's better than nothing. So I'm going to fiddle around with this and see what I can do.
UPDATE: Guess that was a fluke! I can't get it to pay again now... still sticking.
I would like to back up a little and try something that will answer a few questions for me anyway. Now that you know that the 5th click is the slide release for payout. So, please stop it just before the fifth click, and see if you can move all the horizontal fingers in and out, you can just move the vertical fingers and look to see if the lower ones are also clear to move also, but all the fingers should be free to move with only their own spring tention. vertical and horizontal fingers should be moving freely at this point. It is important to know that the horizontal fingers are still free to move.
Jackpot
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Had a minor emergency last night and didn't add to post. My girlfriend went MIA due to someone picking up her cell phone instead of theirs! :no:
I'm at work now jackpot (and fatman too!) so I'll try the 5 th click test later tonight. However, after my last post I set up the three bell payout again. When I manually released the vertical fingers for that payout, I noticed that two were aligned with the slides but the third was off. I took an angeled screwdriver and oh so carefully tweaked the "bend" part. The next times it released properly for the win! I hope this makes sense. I didn't put the mech back in yet as that was when the gf was temporarily lost.
Must work ... Good old Sunday job! I'll post back ASAP.
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Had a minor emergency last night and didn't add to post. My girlfriend went MIA due to someone picking up her cell phone instead of theirs! :no:
I'm at work now jackpot (and fatman too!) so I'll try the 5 th click test later tonight. However, after my last post I set up the three bell payout again. When I manually released the vertical fingers for that payout, I noticed that two were aligned with the slides but the third was off. I took an angeled screwdriver and oh so carefully tweaked the "bend" part. The next times it released properly for the win! I hope this makes sense. I didn't put the mech back in yet as that was when the gf was temporarily lost.
Must work ... Good old Sunday job! I'll post back ASAP.
I work Saturday and Sunday also, and that sucks but with our traffic the weekend drive to work is wonderful!............Lucky me, I am on Vacation. I really want to know that all you fingers are free to move just before the 5th click, this is very important because if not, this can be you problem, "a common one" and that can be fixed. So we need to do this before doing anything else or things can get screwed up and you can change things that don't need to be changed. If one of your bottom fingers was catching two slides insted of just one, bending the end of it a tad was just fine.
Jackpot :fryingpan:
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I hope you get a chance to "Fly like n Eagle" while you there ... as long as someone who isnt gets to drive home... enjoy... got to be awesome
Dave
I've never seen more weed smoking 60 - 70 year old "hippies" than here! Those darn kids! :24:
I just had wine...at home since I'm walking distance to the OC fair.
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Ok I'm lost again. Sorry... mechanical slots are still new to me.
I'm not sure now what the "five click point" is.
When I set up any pay (other than cherries which all pay) at the point just before it should pay, it just seems to be "sticking" right at the point where the vertical tabs meet the slides. I can manually release the safety slide but the others stick too.
I've adjusted that guide (so the slides are just on the edge of releasing) and then it will pay properly ... BUT then the safety slide (and I think two others) didn't reset back to their spot and that's when two coins com out each spin.
It seems there's a perfect point for that guide but I can't find it. It's like all the fingers need to just hit harder... all of them. OR... the slides are just gummy.
:Scratch-Head:
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Ok I'm lost again. Sorry... mechanical slots are still new to me.
I'm not sure now what the "five click point" is.
When I set up any pay (other than cherries which all pay) at the point just before it should pay, it just seems to be "sticking" right at the point where the vertical tabs meet the slides. I can manually release the safety slide but the others stick too.
I've adjusted that guide (so the slides are just on the edge of releasing) and then it will pay properly ... BUT then the safety slide (and I think two others) didn't reset back to their spot and that's when two coins com out each spin.
It seems there's a perfect point for that guide but I can't find it. It's like all the fingers need to just hit harder... all of them. OR... the slides are just gummy.
:Scratch-Head:
Quote>> I really want to know that all you fingers are free to move just before the 5th click. The fifth click is right went the slides release, 1,2, and 3 are the reels indexing one at a time, 4th is when the fingers release to find there holes and go in. That is right when you want to stop the clock so you can see if all the fingers move freely, can you move a finger and see the lower horizontal fingers moving in and out (or are they "lower fingers" stuck because there is pressher on them), are all the finger free to move right after the 4th click and before the fifth?
Jackpot :Tongue_Out: :Crazy:
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From what I see, after repeated cycles... the lower "fingers" just rest against the slides at the end of the cycle. The uppers go through the reels fine. It's as if the slides are just too hard to for the fingers to release... other than for any cherry payouts.
If I adjust that guide correctly... it pays out cherries properly and ANY other payout will line up properly, but not release. If I manually release the lower fingers, the payout is correct.
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I have been saying there might be timing issue. I will pull one of my mechs and try to take a video of it and show you the nut on the arm on the back that causes the last clicks. If it is too short, it does 4th and 5th too fast that is keeps the release of the arms from fully happening. i have had this issue on a few of my repairs. ... Tomorrow or PM me and we can chat
Dave
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I think the release of the arms is fully happening... at all pays, they line up fine with the slides, but it's just too hard to push the slides...
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I think the release of the arms is fully happening... at all pays, they line up fine with the slides, but it's just too hard to push the slides...
It seems hard get you to check what is needed so we can move on from here, this is a bit much to go into; unless you are having this problem. But, it is possable that your slides are resting on your fingers during the whole cycle and if so, your machine will not work. That is why I want to know if your fingers are free to move without the slides resting on them just after the 4th and before that 5th click.
If the slides are resting on the fingers before the 5th click which is the slide release click, then we have to fix or adjust the the payout stop lever first by having a look at the payout stop lever and I really think that could be your whole problem. This stop lever holds the whole slide set forward until the fingers have the time to move around freely before that 5 click, which is when the payout slide lever moves out behind the slide stack and allows them to be pulled in by the springs until they hit the fingers.
10-4 ? :lol: :Scratch-Head: :Scratch-Head: :dancing_2: :applause:
Jackpot
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Here..., maybe this drawing below will help me explain myself. This shows the slide stop lever holding the stack of slides so the vertical and horizontal fingers are free to move in and out, the slides are held clear of the fingers. When you pull the handle the slides are pushed forward and just before they get pushed all the way out they clear the slide stop lever and the slide stop lever moves in behind the slide stack, and then when the machine kicks off, the slides move back until they hit this slide stop lever which holds them there. As the machine goes through it's cycle a bar is pulled back with the clock action, the slide stop lever is connected to this bar and as it moves it pulls the slide stop lever slowly out from behind the slide stack and when it clears the slide stack, all the sides spring back until they hit the horizontal fingers (This noise is the 5th click you hear) if there is no payout all the slides hit the fingers and stop, if there is a winner, some of the fingers stop some of the slides and others keep on moving in for a payout. How did I do here; :Scratch-Head: am I getting better at explaining this or am I still confusing everyone. :EmoticonHelp4: Well if so, maybe the drawing will help some.... :no: So, it is my guess right now that this slide stop lever is not holding your slides, it could be that your slides are not being pushed out enough for this lever to get in behind your slides and that is somewhat common... :Crazy: So, if this is what is wrong, we can go on from there and I can tell you how to adjust your slide pushbar so it will push the slides out just a tad further so this slide stop can have enough clearance to get in behind the slides. :applause: :applause: :applause:
Jackpot
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A very good and understandable description.
Dave F
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A very good and understandable description.
Dave F
Thank You! Dan Ellis just reminded me that we have a video on our site that will show how this all works, I forgot about it, and a lot of things but that is another story. Anyway if you go to our website address and watch the first film clip you can see this slide stop lever working in live action! It is a British clip so they may call it a bonnet insted of a hood but you will get a good idea of how this works and it is interesting that they could even get in there close enough to film this so you can see it working, that is cool and I thank them for making this short movie clip as this is very helpful. It is at: http://www.coinslots.com/tips/mechanical/ (http://www.coinslots.com/tips/mechanical/) Thank you Dan for pointing me to this as this will show a lot and be a lot of help. Now you can see the slides moving forward far enough to allow this slide stop lever to get in behind the slides. If your machine is out of adjustment it is possable that the slides will not be pushed far enough forward for this foot to get behind and do it's job. If this doesn't happen, the slides will rest on the fingers and then the fingers can't move enough because of this presher on them. This slide stop lever action is one of the first things I look at when I am dealing with payout problems. So, now I hope we can find out what is going on with his payout problems. If you start adjusting things and bending things when you don't really understand how this process works, you end up making more problems for your self and it is my hope that we find the problem before any to this happens. Thanks again Dan for pointing this film clip out to me, your the man!
Jackpot :thank_you:
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There are a coupe of other videos that are also interesting and helpful. When I first found these
I contacted the owner and obtained his permission to post them, thankfully he agreed to allow
me to do this.
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I think the release of the arms is fully happening... at all pays, they line up fine with the slides, but it's just too hard to push the slides...
It seems hard get you to check what is needed so we can move on from here, this is a bit much to go into; unless you are having this problem. But, it is possable that your slides are resting on your fingers during the whole cycle and if so, your machine will not work. That is why I want to know if your fingers are free to move without the slides resting on them just after the 4th and before that 5th click.
If the slides are resting on the fingers before the 5th click which is the slide release click, then we have to fix or adjust the the payout stop lever first by having a look at the payout stop lever and I really think that could be your whole problem. This stop lever holds the whole slide set forward until the fingers have the time to move around freely before that 5 click, which is when the payout slide lever moves out behind the slide stack and allows them to be pulled in by the springs until they hit the fingers.
10-4 ? :lol: :Scratch-Head: :Scratch-Head: :dancing_2: :applause:
Jackpot
I think my brain engaged... a little.
The slides ARE resting against the fingers at the fifth click. I think this is the problem. I knew this, but was thinking that something just wasn't pushing hard enough. Oops! Sounds like the stop lever!
Thanks for the drawing too... it's coming together in my head... I hope.
Great video ... thank you.
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I think the release of the arms is fully happening... at all pays, they line up fine with the slides, but it's just too hard to push the slides...
It seems hard get you to check what is needed so we can move on from here, this is a bit much to go into; unless you are having this problem. But, it is possable that your slides are resting on your fingers during the whole cycle and if so, your machine will not work. That is why I want to know if your fingers are free to move without the slides resting on them just after the 4th and before that 5th click.
If the slides are resting on the fingers before the 5th click which is the slide release click, then we have to fix or adjust the the payout stop lever first by having a look at the payout stop lever and I really think that could be your whole problem. This stop lever holds the whole slide set forward until the fingers have the time to move around freely before that 5 click, which is when the payout slide lever moves out behind the slide stack and allows them to be pulled in by the springs until they hit the fingers.
10-4 ? :lol: :Scratch-Head: :Scratch-Head: :dancing_2: :applause:
Jackpot
I think my brain engaged... a little.
The slides ARE resting against the fingers at the fifth click. I think this is the problem. I knew this, but was thinking that something just wasn't pushing hard enough. Oops! Sounds like the stop lever!
Thanks for the drawing too... it's coming together in my head... I hope.
Great video ... thank you.
GREAT! OK then, now we know what is wrong and that is what I was thinking for sometime now. Now we know what is wrong so I will get you a photo of how to adjust and fix this problem and this should solve all you payout problems.
Jackpot :dancing_2: :applause: :dancing_2: :cool_thumb_up:
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I have the book you posted the picture from as well and it helped to see it right out of there... and I see that the shot is looking downward into the machine. I hope I can access this stuff and I hope my little "filing" of the safety slide head didn't hurt. I don't think it did... it was more of a "deburring."
UPDATE: Looking in from the back, I just noticed a spring missing. I took out my Mills mech from the M head and noticed where it goes! Hang on and I'll post a picture. I think I may have a spring in my parts bin.
I see where it attaches to. I feel like an idiot for not noticing this. Of course, I've never worked on a mechanical, but still...
UPDATE AGAIN... So far, working! I SEE the space that is supposed to be there now. THANKS for the revelation! I'll put the mech back in and test all pays... I'll be back.
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I have the book you posted the picture from as well and it helped to see it right out of there... and I see that the shot is looking downward into the machine. I hope I can access this stuff and I hope my little "filing" of the safety slide head didn't hurt. I don't think it did... it was more of a "deburring."
UPDATE: Looking in from the back, I just noticed a spring missing. I took out my Mills mech from the M head and noticed where it goes! Hang on and I'll post a picture. I think I may have a spring in my parts bin.
I see where it attaches to. I feel like an idiot for not noticing this. Of course, I've never worked on a mechanical, but still...
UPDATE AGAIN... So far, working! I SEE the space that is supposed to be there now. THANKS for the revelation! I'll put the mech back in and test all pays... I'll be back.
You may be on it now... I'll attached my information here, anyway. But it looks like your slide holding lever might not have the spring missing or something fell off yours. To be sure, see if you can push your slide holding lever behind the slides and see if it will go in behind the slides just before kick off. If it does, then you know a spring or a lever fell off. Don't worry too much about that safety slide, like I said before you can wire that open so that it never closes again. I advise that anyway. I have an explanation on how to adjust the slides and that is with the attached photo, so I will just leave that as it is, as you still have the slide stop lever problem but it might be caused by something else and not the adjustment. Good work!
Jackpot :yes: :yes: :arrowthruhead:
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Yes the spring was gone! I put on another I had (bought a bag of springs a long time ago just for the heck o fit) and, so far, so good.
Reading your note on adjustment now... :)
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Yes the spring was gone! I put on another I had (bought a bag of springs a long time ago just for the heck o fit) and, so far, so good.
Reading your note on adjustment now... :)
I forgot where I read this, but I remember that proper adjustment is to have the slides push out 1/16" past the slide holding lever, and that works for me.
Jackpot :propeller: :drool04: :drool04: :agreepost:
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It seems to be that distance... ish.
So far, most all pays are correct now with the exception of the two cherries occasionally paying two coins and not five, but then other times it does. I think the reels and stops need some de-gumming. When the wrong pay happens, one reel doesn't appear to lock fully in when the solenoid lets the fan go.
I have to work soon... damn work. If I'm energetic enough tonight, maybe I'll shoot a little video and you can actually see and hear when the solenoid kicks in. I almost want to remove all that stuff... when I lower the fan stop lever, it works like a regular slot. Tempting to just remove it.
... I just let it spin freely after a pull and it DOES autostop after about thirty seconds...interesting.
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It seems to be that distance... ish.
So far, most all pays are correct now with the exception of the two cherries occasionally paying two coins and not five, but then other times it does. I think the reels and stops need some de-gumming. When the wrong pay happens, one reel doesn't appear to lock fully in when the solenoid lets the fan go.
I have to work soon... damn work. If I'm energetic enough tonight, maybe I'll shoot a little video and you can actually see and hear when the solenoid kicks in. I almost want to remove all that stuff... when I lower the fan stop lever, it works like a regular slot. Tempting to just remove it.
... I just let it spin freely after a pull and it DOES autostop after about thirty seconds...interesting.
I am impressed with this machine and that skill stop coil and skill stop future, I wish I could see what this all looks with a photo showing the whole mechanism. I think you have found you main problems now and the one problem left is that outside finger, the cherry finger, maybe the spring on that one is not strong enough, try a little stronger spring so you can get consistent action on that finger, then maybe we can adjust it or the spring might just do it. It is Interesting going back through this thread, it is so easy to get off on the wrong road in fixing things. The time it takes to really understand what is happening and how it works, what it is not doing and what it should be doing pays off all the time, and keeps you on the right road. Nothing worse then screwing up everything and finding out your not even close to the real problem, I have been there.
Jackpot :soapbox_3:
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Well I got home late from work but just couldn't resist going out to the garage to play with the new toy. So far, it's all working fine. But just once time, for the two cherries, it paid just two instead of four coins again. But when it did that, I noticed the arm had not fully returned to the top. The next few plays I just pulled the arm and "helped" it back to the topmost point. The next time it hit two cherries, it paid fine. So tomorrow I may remove the piston and clean it all up and see if that helps the arm to return fully... or faster and fully.
And I do want to see if I can "rig" it easily to not be a skill stop machine It was fun for about ten minutes, then I wanted it to be a NORMAL slot machine! :rotfl:
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Super, you use neatsfoot oil in that pump, that is a leather oil for shoes, the pump has a leather seal inside, it might just be dry. At the door end of the pump there is a screw with a nut on on it, this is so you can back the screw out and lock it in position with the nut. As you back the screw out it opens a small vent hole to allow more air in, and faster thus speeding up the handle. If you take that screw all the way out you can add your oil in that screw hole. One of those "zoom spout" oil jugs works great for this.
Jackpot :drool04:
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It is Interesting going back through this thread, it is so easy to get off on the wrong road in fixing things. The time it takes to really understand what is happening and how it works, what it is not doing and what it should be doing pays off all the time, and keeps you on the right road. Nothing worse then screwing up everything and finding out your not even close to the real problem, I have been there.
Jackpot :soapbox_3:
And since I checked all the stuff you and Fatman asked... I was able to learn a lot along the way. :thank_you: Now I'm not so scared of these mechanical beasts! I might have to buy a few more!
I should mark this topic SOLVED, but I may just keep adding to this thread until I've got it in better shape.
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I would hope that you would continue to update the thread because not everyone is familiar with these old machines
and that includes myself. It is nice to read and learn.
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Maybe I'll "unsolve" it and modify the topic for this particular slot. It IS an oddball. So far, I've found nothing like this on the internet. There's lots of Sega models that are very similar but I haven't seen any reference to a skill stop.
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Maybe I'll "unsolve" it and modify the topic for this particular slot. It IS an oddball. So far, I've found nothing like this on the internet. There's lots of Sega models that are very similar but I haven't seen any reference to a skill stop.
I myself would like to see a few photo of just your mechanism so I can see how your skill stop setup looks like, I have never see this on a Sega, you could have a rare item here.
Jackpot :agreepost:
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Photos on the way!! Heck maybe I'll do a video too!
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Photos on the way!! Heck maybe I'll do a video too!
Now that wold be cool! I am real happy that you got these problems fixed, and yes, that is how you learn these machines, it think it is called trail by [blink]FIRE.[/blink] :thank_you: [/b]
Jackpot
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Okay here's the front, sides, and back of the machine in high resolution. I also shot the inside of the case and the sticker on the back panel. One thing I can say: this machine is built like a brick. The case alone is very heavy! It's SOLID wood and metal... more metal but the sides are wood. It's a hell of a lot more solid than my newer Mills M head. The bottom of the case has a round mount for a stand to hold the machine and overflow change... there's no cash box but there's a place for one in the machine. I may just make up one for it since it has the chute routed for a box in a stand.
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WOW, that is one optioned out mechanism, it has everything and that skill stop with fan stop is some great stuff!
Jackpot :yes: :yes: :yes: :wave:
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I've made MORE progress. I'm also happy I stockpile sh*t I bought on ebay and from members here... errr STUFF that I bought because it comes in handy: the reason the handle was "slow" was that the return spring was missing! I think that's important, right? :Tongue_Out:
I'm happy I have my Mills M head and Mills "Open Face" (It seems to have no real name) to look at.
I happened to have the perfect spring for it, in my bag O springs. I also stuck a new bulb in one of the two sockets for florescent bulbs. I wasn't quite sure if the starters were for that bulb but, it fit and I just flicked on the power and it worked! I just put in the upper tube. There's a spot for a lower one but it's plenty bright with just one bulb. Amazing how an illuminated mechanical slot looks! Too bad it's missing the top display. So far, so good! I have one more teeny issue I think, but I'm going to cycle it a few more times and see if that "two cherry" issue comes up again.
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Here's my next question/issue. The center disk isn't quite as aligned as the other two. I'm poking through my "care and understanding" book and can't find it. The reel hub itself has two screws that are on very tight. Is that where I loosen to make the adjustment of the disk?
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Here's my next question/issue. The center disk isn't quite as aligned as the other two. I'm poking through my "care and understanding" book and can't find it. The reel hub itself has two screws that are on very tight. Is that where I loosen to make the adjustment of the disk?
To me, those notches look to be adjusted nicely, it you were any closer then they are, when the disks were 180 degrees, they would probably be off and maybe not lock. Adjusting this by loosening those two screws between the reels would do nothing for your strip. I can see you center strip down a tad, if you want to fix that you would need to uncrimp the reel strip and just slide it a little. When the index lever, index's the reel, this is where the reel always wants to sit, so if the strip is off a bit I would just slide it. Reel bundles are not that easy to deal with, there can be a lot of adjustments and a lot that can go to hell on you. If your reel is indexed hard and those notches look lined up as yours are, I would change nothing, but I would slip the strip a little to make me happy.
Jackpot
Jackpot
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I didn't make my question clear ... didn't finish it... :duh:
What I meant to add was - would that middle reel disk notch alignment be the cause of my occasional wrong pay, where it pays two instead of five? I sort of said that in my previous post but I think I didn't make it clear enough. I'm not too picky on alignment unless it really is causing a payout problem.
Weird thing... so far it's working fine. I guess I need to manually check each cherry in the center reel and see what happens.
I'm not sure if I want to uncrimp the reel strip! :CaptainHappy_worried: I'm okay with how they look.
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I didn't make my question clear ... didn't finish it... :duh:
What I meant to add was - would that middle reel disk notch alignment be the cause of my occasional wrong pay, where it pays two instead of five? I sort of said that in my previous post but I think I didn't make it clear enough. I'm not too picky on alignment unless it really is causing a payout problem.
Weird thing... so far it's working fine. I guess I need to manually check each cherry in the center reel and see what happens.
I'm not sure if I want to uncrimp the reel strip! :CaptainHappy_worried: I'm okay with how they look.
OK, I thought you had the cherry problem fixed, sorry. So what is this problem? Do you get only two coins when you should get five every once in a while? is that what is wrong? If so, did you try to shorted that spring or add a little stronger spring to that outside finger as we talked about before? This would help it push those horizontal fingers in all the way for the 5 pay. Be detailed as this can be all kinds of things. As for you question to the three notches not lining up perfect, no, this is not your problem.
Thanks :Scratch-Head:
:Scratch-Head: Jackpot :garfield:
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OK, I thought you had the cherry problem fixed, sorry. So what is this problem? Do you get only two coins when you should get five every once in a while? is that what is wrong? If so, did you try to shorted that spring or add a little stronger spring to that outside finger as we talked about before? This would help it push those horizontal fingers in all the way for the 5 pay. Be detailed as this can be all kinds of things. As for you question to the three notches not lining up perfect, no, this is not your problem.
Thanks :Scratch-Head:
:Scratch-Head: Jackpot :garfield:
Thanks!!!
Ok soon as I get home I'll shorten that spring but ... Is this the spring that also operates the safety slide?
I think I need to buy a "junker" mechanical slot and rebuild it bottom up! Isn't that the best way to learn?
UPDATE: That's the one I replaced, and so far all is good! My next post will be something kind of COOL...well a cheap cosmetic "fix."
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This machine must have sat somewhere in the sun, at least on one side. The bells and oranges on two reels were really faded. Sooooooooo I got a magic marker and started filling in yellow on the bells, which looked great. Then I noticed the oranges were looking like lemons...they were way too yellow...even on the third reel. Here's my "new" orange. There's a few strokes you can see but I think it looks lot better then the "before" orange. Orangeier orange! At least now it matches the payout schedule better. :yes:
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That looks good enough to peel and eat, nice job and good idea....
jackpot
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That looks good enough to peel and eat, nice job and good idea....
jackpot
I tried eating one but it was a little dry! :rotfl:
I've played it a lot and also set up numerous two- cherry pays, and everything is still good. I found something interesting inside the case...soon as I get home I'll post a picture. I'm 99.999% sure I know what it was for too!
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Now I am on edge, what the hell is it????
Jackpot :Crazy: :Crazy: :lol: :Crazy: :Scratch-Head:
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When I first got the back opened, this 3 1/2 inch wire fell out of the bottom, where a cash can would be.
I've had bits of weird stuff fall of slots before so I didn't really think anything about it, other than sitting it in my "parts and bits of unidentifiable stuff" area.
Last week, after I got this working - I realized if you held solenoid-activated fan stop lever, the machine would auto stop, like a real slot machine. The SECOND I realized that, I remembered the wire! And it "just so happened" to be the EXACT size to fit the lever and the base of the mechanism!
So the machine will behave like a real slot with it in, but I don't like hearing the solenoid activating after 40 seconds...it just stays on and buzzing. I don't think that's a good thing!
With all that in mind, I'd like to just make a switch to deactivate that solenoid and leave the spring in. At least that way, it can be easily reverted to a skill stop slot. It's fun that way, but I really prefer the auto stop better.
Any thoughts or comments from all those members who chimed... oh wait... any thoughts from you Jackpot or Fatman? You're the only two here who seem to have any interest in this cool machine. :propeller:
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Well this was easy. I just unplugged the connector that apparently supplies power to the solenoids.
It plays like a "real slot" now with that unplugged and the fan stop tied down with that wire.
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I've been following this but to be honest I don't know J/S about this type of machine. To the point I couldn't even hinder progress let alone help it. But......I like the idea about the markers. I have an old machine with "red" sevens that are pink. I believe I will give that a try, Thanks.
Dave
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I've been following this but to be honest I don't know J/S about this type of machine. To the point I couldn't even hinder progress let alone help it. But......I like the idea about the markers. I have an old machine with "red" sevens that are pink. I believe I will give that a try, Thanks.
Dave
Even though it shows sort of a "brush stroke" look, I still think it's better. I just did some cherries that were pink and they look great. Only thing is make sure the reel strips are clean.
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I didn't like how that top Olympic ring insert looked, so I took a a chance and removed it but first I had to remove the coin-in stuff. Once I got it off, I saw there was a plastic cover over the glass. It cleaned up... but, as what happens in old stuff, more of the paint fell off! Interestingly, I found that there was a socket for another florescent light. I tried to dab on some of my magic marker where the paint was missing and then I installed a bulb. It looks worse illuminated, but the camera also shows it much worse then it really looks. The blue does match somewhat but the original paint looks gray in the picture! I've read somewhere about paint you can buy for this type of thing, but I don't know what kind it was - some type that would still allow the light through. Here's the before and after shots.
I'll be taking that upper bulb OUT after I post this!
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There are some restoration guys in vegas but I don't know any names. If you could find them they would probably know the type of paint. I like the strips though. Yeah my strips are the old plastic ones easy enough to clean. I used windex on them and didn't bother them at all, except the pink didn't turn red. :duh:
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Have you thought about contacting a sign company? They might have an idea about the kind of paint that lets artificial light shine through. Just a thought.
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I may post something here and see if anyone knows... thanks!
I'm not sure if I'll even keep this machine... I might! I like it NOT being a skill stop. :yes:
I took out that light and here's one final picture... hope no one is getting tired of my pictures.
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I may post something here and see if anyone knows... thanks!
I'm not sure if I'll even keep this machine... I might! I like it NOT being a skill stop. :yes:
I took out that light and here's one final picture... hope no one is getting tired of my pictures.
Computer problems too me away for a bit, I see you have been busy. A thought about glass; maybe have it copied/scaned into computer, touch up problems and then print it in reverse clear stick'em paper and stick it back on new glass, this has been done. Painting glass has never worked for me, a product call I think "save my glass" you can paint it over or poor it over flaking glass and then pain on it to try to touch it up, but i don't want to try that. Translucent paint is that the word you were looking for I think?
Jackpot
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Translucent is the word...thanks! But I do like the reverse stick on idea. I may poke around the Internet - there's a few Sega pictures out there and maybe I can find one like mine. I think I've seen that ring set on other machines.
UPDATE (if anyone's here!) I've been poking around the internet. There's a great site showing most off the Sega slot machines. Mine isn't in there, which is strange...I must have a rare machine I guess. BUT... where mine has those rings, covers the window that should be showing the escalator, and on those other machines, IS just that. I wonder why the reason was for this? There a crude coin mech. Once they pass that, they just roll down an angled slide and into the coin tube. Anyone know?
UPDATE AGAIN
"There a crude coin mech."
I just realized I answered my own question when I said that! My guess is the escalator was no longer needed since there was now a COIN MECH to detect a slug. So they used the same castings and just put in the cute glass with the rings and illuminated the back to make it pretty!
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Progress report on this weird Sega machine:
It never had enough tokens to fill the coin tube so I bought 100 more, cheaply on ebay. But it also had no cash box! It just had the small tube that channels the coins through to the bottom, which had once been attached to a stand with a box below.
So I removed the small tube and found a replacement cash box. I fabricated a block so the box now easily slides in and out and it works great. Now the machine is completely independent! Still waiting for a back door lock and then the machine will be more presentable for sale... if I can find a buyer!
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Looks great!! :applause: I owned a Sega machine about 5 yrs ago, but it was a little different. If I remember right the whole coin tray pulled out and the coin box was behind it. Your machine has what's called sun dried fruit reel strips. Nice touch up job..
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Thanks Gary. It's been fun working on this. As jackpot said ... They look good enough to peel and eat.
I'm happy with my cash box. It's great to hear the CLUNK when the big tokens fall in!
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Sold the machine! It now lives up in central California... The new owner is going to do a full restoration on it.
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Well THIS is funny!
I was looking for back door locks on ebay and something popped up... look familiar???
You can see the card I stuck inside the cabinet to show how to make it from a skill stop to a "regular stop" slot machine too, by adding a hook in the back that made it cycle and stop without having to press the buttons. I hope he still has that hook!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282042723818?_trksid=p2060353 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/282042723818?_trksid=p2060353)