New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: mr-monoxide on December 09, 2015, 02:48:50 PM
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Hello, I recently acquired a E2290-1 4 reel which had been working perfectly however for the last couple of days it's been doing something strange. What's happening is that when I turn the machine on everything powers up and it's ready for play. I coin up and pull the handle and the reels don't stop, they just keep spinning until they start to lose momentum and then the machine tilts and alternately flashes code 41 then 3. I then have to press the reset and test buttons together to get the machine to reset. It will continue to do this for a while then I'll coin up, pull the handle and the reel stops will engage quite late after spin begins. The machine tilts and alternately flashes a 71 then 3. It will again do this for a while then the reel stops will begin engaging normally after handle pull. It no longer tilts but afterwards the insert coin light does not come back on and if I have a winning reel combination the hopper does not pay out or respond. Again it will do this for a while until all of a sudden everything's fine. The machine will play normally as well as pay out correctly. At first I thought I had a weak reader on reel 1 given the 41 & 71 tilt codes so I switched the readers around thinking that if the reader was truly faulty the problem would follow to whatever reel I had that reader on and would give me a different tilt code but it did not. The machine still does the exact same thing showing the same tilt codes. I feel like something is getting ready to fail permanently and I want to find and correct this problem before the machine fails all together. So what could the problem be? What else can I check? Any help or advice offered will be greatly appreciated.
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Sounds like the grease is getting thick and sticky till it warms up.
Inside your reel mechanism there is 2 black cross shafts. Can you spin those freely with your fingers? if not it needs more lubrication to get all the linkage working freely and then you reels will stop.
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Thank you for the suggestion, I will certainly try that. But would it account for the insert coin light not coming back on and the hopper not paying out even when the reels stop normally?
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You might want to check your power supply voltages, and the condition of the power supply plug.. Weak power supplys can cause many problems.. You can buy a new after market on Ebay for $59.00. They work great, I've used them.. Other thing is to check your kick & arms switches..
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Thanks for the suggestions. I lubed the reel mech very well and everything spins freely including the cross shafts mentioned. I was good advice, the reels spin much faster now. I also checked my power supply voltages and all outputs are normal. The switches are all functional as well. Unfortunately the problem persists. What I've noticed is that if I power up the machine and wait about 2 hours before I play everything is fine and will remain that way for as long as I leave the power on. If I turn it off for just a few minutes I have to wait the 2 hours again before I can play. Could the relays cause this to happen?
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Have you oiled the reels hubs? There is an oil hole in each hub to get oil into the needle bearing that the reel spin in.. One other thought is to pull the power supply and inspect the solder joint on the plug header. Those solder joints like to crack causing cold solder joint.. Your other place to look for bad solder joints are on the back if the MPU. Heat cycles cause bad connections on many of the socketed emproms and solder chips. Good thing to do is to take a pink ereaser and clear all the pins on the IO and MPU, power supply, even the reel readers. Many problems on these machines are just a connection gone bad.
I was working on a CEI Video Poker game to night. The owner said it keeps turning off & on.. I noticed that when the monitor went out, the Green LED light for DC power would dim. I removed the fuse for that circuit and cleaned the holder and removed and reconnected the plugs on the back plane. After doing that the machines now operating normal. So just saying check and clean your connections. You just might be surprised.
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Amechanic is correct about those cold solder joints. Here's an example, as seen on the power supply:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramegoom.com%2Fjohn%2FE2000%2Fcold_solder_joints.jpg&hash=408ec227e14adf05a804ea9742ac025b993cede2)
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those are some good pictures the top one and the bottom one most people would miss I don't know how the one in the center ever work
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on the older Bally "E" series machines they used pressure type connectors on the power supply.the wire is inserted into the "V" type opening, they use a punch type tool to push the wire into the "V" which will cause the insulation to be pierced and the wire will now make a connection to the connector pin, over time these will be come loose due to the current pull of the power supply, these caused huge intermittent problems, monitor the power supply voltages, then start wiggling the wires on the bottom of the connector, I think they are red/black tracer and a few up from there are blue/ black tracer (from memory,not sure about the colors) if the voltages vary and drop off then you have to fix that connection. most people will solder the wire. the second problem you could be having: the reels are stopped by a solenoid, I have seen these become dirty and stiff, they should be disassembled and cleaned and lubed with graphite.
Hope this helps
Jim
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Even when they changed to the crimped style terminals, same problem existed:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramegoom.com%2Fjohn%2FE2000%2Fe2000-burned-power-supply-connector.jpg&hash=5e2ff3a6142d8de079ffc485c681d9d72e36d867)
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Yea I've seen them like that before. Then I've seen them remove the wire from the plug and solder it to the power supply.
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Those Molex connectors are really low rent design. The contact area is minimal, and the spring tension within the terminal gets reduced every time you plug and unplug it. Terminals are too soft to maintain the spring tension for high current use.
You should see the Molex connectors in my pinball machines...every bit as bad, chronic problems with them.
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Ok, I'll remove the power supply tomorrow and see if I see anything that looks like what's in the pictures posted (thanks for that by the way, pictures are always a big help). I'll report back with my findings..
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Alright I've gone over everything and as far as I can tell all seems to be in order. Ive cleaned and oiled all moving parts on the reel mechanism and it is spinning freely. The stop solenoids are free and not sticking either. I've also reseated every connection I can find and I removed and inspected the power supply and associated connections looking for anything that looked like the pictures posted but I can't find anything suspicious looking, in fact everything looks so good you would almost think it was new. So now I'm trying to understand the tests that the machine performs. On test 1 the win meter displays 00001 and resets for play, test 2 runs through all the lights with no problem, test 3 activates all the relays and solenoids again with no problems. Test 3 confuses me, it displays 11- which flickers a bit as if the machine is checking stuff but I don't know what this test is supposed to be doing so I don't know if the 11- displayed is normal or not. Test 4 runs the hopper for a second and dispenses 10 coins. Test 5 displays 0.0.0.0. I don't know what this means either. Test 6 displays various numbers but thats it. I have a basic manual but it doesn't cover these tests very well, it tells me how to perform them but nothing about the meaning of the results. Anyone know if the results I'm getting are normal? Also I've read that the reel reader board could be faulty, anybody have one they'd like to sell? I'd like to replace it just to eliminate it as a potential source of the problem.
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Download and print this document:
http://www.ramegoom.com/john/E2000/Maintaining%20your%20Bally%20Slot%20Machine.pdf (http://www.ramegoom.com/john/E2000/Maintaining%20your%20Bally%20Slot%20Machine.pdf)
At the bottom of the doc, it spells out the codes, this should help.
Test 5 is the reel symbol position test, and if you have 0 0 0 0 this means the reel positions are not being seen by the MPU. Could be a blown fuse that powers up the reader lamps, or a bad Molex connection.
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Thanks for the document. I'm sure it will be very useful. The reel reader problem seems intermittent. Sometimes the reels continue to spin and don't lock giving me the typical code 41 tilt. Other times the reels lock in late giving me a code 71 but sometimes they spin and lock in correctly and will pay out winning combinations normally. One thing that's seems unusual is that there are instances that the reels spin and lock in as they should but there will be a very long delay of several minutes before the hopper pays out or the insert coin light comes back on. It's that condition that has me eyeballing the reel control board. What do you think?
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I think it's intermittent connectors.
If the reels sometimes work normally, other times don't, it's likely there is an intermittent or poor connection between the reel readers and the I/O board.
Check those long connectors that run along the top of the I/O board, and also, the three connectors that attach to the reel readers. Also, the large Molex connectors that plug into the reel assembly. Also, remove the I/O board and check the solder integrity on the PC board for each terminal. A magnifying glass is an easy way to look for cold solder joints.
For the long delayed payout, I'd look at that Beau connector behind the hopper mechanism. The terminals used are low-rent and not reliable. Go thru them with a pink eraser for the male terminals, and find one male terminal that isn't used; remove it from the connector and use it as a "pull force" pin to check the female pins on the bracket behind the hopper. A loose terminal will exhibit very low friction and could indicate a poor connection. You then need to use a dental pick to reposition spring tension to that terminal. A bit of practice and you'll find it.
There is a signal to run the hopper motor, and a signal from the coin switch to count each coin. If that signal to the motor has high resistance in it, the motor won't run or will run slowly. After a certain length of time, the CPU times out and sets a tilt code if the expected coins are not delivered. A bad or mis-adjusted coin switch will give you the same results. Again, all plug in terminals should be firm and tight. Any looseness will give you problems.
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It could very well be some connection issue as there definitely seems to be a communication problem somewhere between something and something. I'm not familiar with slot machine vernacular but I'm think I know the connectors your talking about from the description. I will try your suggestions and report back...
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Update: So at this point I've cleaned and secured every connection in the entire machine and I also have checked the resistance on everyone of them as well. All of them check out ok, the highest reading I can get is 1.9 ohms checking from input side of the connector, through the connection, then to ouput. All solder joints also look ok as far as I can tell. I did end up changing out the reel control board just to eliminate it as a possibility. I also disassembled the reel stop mechanism and recleaned and oiled all moving parts. Everything moves freely including the black cross shafts. Unfortunately the problem persists. Sometimes it works perfectly, most of the time it doesn't. It just keeps throwing a code 91 or 71 if it tilts before the reels stop or codes 41 and 71 if it tilts after all 4 reels stop. If it's working good it passes test 5 with no problems, all other times it fails showing 0000 in the display. I've measured input voltage to the reel assembly at anywhere between 4.1 to 4.4 volts. Is that low? It seems low to me. I'm currently waiting on a new power supply to be delivered. I'm really hoping that replacing it will show some positive results because I have no clue what to check or do next...
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Also, reel reader voltage is roughly 2.25v with led's unblocked dropping to 0.4 when blocked. It's the same for all 4 reels. Is that normal voltage?
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I recently made my self a tool to check the tension of the crimp on connecrors on the power supply plug, as well as the large white plugs on the IO, and MPU. The reason for the tool was I had a Bally 1208 E1000 that would work speraticly.. Sometime on a power on the win meter had weird codes like 84 400, of 84404. When you tried to close the door then the jackpot bell would ring. I checked everything I could and changed out the power supply with a new after market one, but no help.. That where I had an idea :nerd: make a single pin header tester.. I removed a pin from a header on a junk board, I then needed to make something to hold the pin. I took an old pen and used the tip end to hold the header pin. I epoxied it in the pens tip, and sealed the other end with a piece of paper, then epoxy the end closed.
After building this tool I started checking each connector separately what I found surprised me. I had four of the crimp on connectors on my MPU plug were so worn out and damaged that they had no tension on my tester. I then totally rebuilt my MPU's plug with all new connectors. Once done my machine has worked perfectly!! I never would have found this with out my new tool. Just sliding the plug on a board can't tell you if you have good connection and the same with a VOM. I'm now planning on making one in each size so I can check other plugs like the reel readers, and the top IO plugs. I have attached a pic of my simple home made tool that found my last machines problems..
Gary
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But wouldn't a low tension connection show up with a high resistance reading?
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But wouldn't a low tension connection show up with a high resistance reading?
I'm not sure about that. Your meters test ends are bigger and round. These header pins are flat. The ones I found would work sometimes, but the next time powered on I had a problem. These crimp connectors do have a life span. They were never intended to be taken apart and put back together very many times. You only make the connection one one side of the pin, its not like the connection surrounds the pin.. Once they get bent they loose the connection.
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But wouldn't a low tension connection show up with a high resistance reading?
Depends. Your meter uses a few volts and is limited on current flow when it measures the resistance it is checking. In actual operation if a connection is making contact but loose or low tension and enough current (electricity amp low) is going thru it then there will be an unwanted higher voltage drop even if the contact resistance is less than 1 ohm. This may not be what's going on in your case, just sayin'.
5 amps flowing thru a .5 ohm contact resistance will drop 2.5 volts at the contact point and can get warm. The higher the contact resistance, even in tenths of an ohm, the larger the voltage drop it causes. That's why we sometimes see a burned or overheated molex connector housing, it got hot from a resistive contact. This normally happens on power supply connections or other stuff that are higher current signals than typical logic gate signals. But on older machine even the logic signals are sometimes at higher voltage or current levels. If you don't find any other explanation for your problem it is always good to check connector contacts and other wiring connections. The metal surface on pins and contacts tarnish and corrode over the years, that adds to their loss of good contact. And as connectors are disconnected and reconnected dozens of times that causes the pins and contacts to loose tension. They don't last forever. If it wasn't for service reasons or ease of assembly in the factory there would be no connectors anywhere in the machine, they are a potential failure point, so engineers would eliminate them in favor of direct wiring. They got rid of sockets on circuit boards in our division, too many problems. Made it a pain when replacing chips for software updates or repair, but overall reliability was increased.
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I see what you're saying, guess I have a lot more work to do... should I just solder the wires directly to the terminals and eliminate all connectors?
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I see what you're saying, guess I have a lot more work to do... should I just solder the wires directly to the terminals and eliminate all connectors?
No, I don't think so, that shouldn't be necessary. It would really cause headaches for you when doing repairs or troubleshooting later. Just clean the pins, try to increase tension on the contact. Or replace contacts, pins, connector if needed. In some case you can even buy new mated connectors and install them in place of the old ones, if there is room. You can use any connector you want, just get one with as many wires as you have on that cable. Today's connectors are a lot better than the old ones.
The point I was making is that connectors can be an overlooked source of problems, especially on older equipment. We did away with connectors only on a limited basis, stuff where they absolutely could not have an intermittent or breakdown, like a cruise missile guidance assembly or some of the equipment going into space and not coming back. I think I read that the Mars Rover did not have connectors (or very few), worried that dust, vibration and huge temp extremes would cause intermittents. Plus it saves some weight which they are always wanting to do.
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I see what you're saying, guess I have a lot more work to do... should I just solder the wires directly to the terminals and eliminate all connectors?
I myself I wouldn't solder the wires dirrectly to the pins. I would always just repin the plugs. I want to be able to take things back apart
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Ok I'll go back through and check tension on all connectors. I'm still curious if the voltages at the reel assembly and readers I mentioned earlier are low or are they correct?
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Those Molex connectors are notorious for gaining resistance on low spring pressure contact problems. If there is even a possibility of them losing spring tension, replace them.
All pins and terminals are tin plated brass. If the tin plating is gone or corroded, cleaning them won't really help as tin on brass causes electrolysis and will lead to fast oxidation. Terminals MUST have tin on tin to function properly. I work in the automotive industry and specifically, terminals, connectors and wiring. Number one rule is, dissimilar metals cause electrolytic oxidation and must be avoided at all costs.
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You can be like a dog chasing its tail going round and round unless you start eliminating problem causing areas. I've worked on these for years and most of the problems I've found were with connections. I guess it could be possible that the 5v regulator on your power supply is bad or going bad, or It could just be with that power supply plug too. I hate doing a new set of connectors on the power supply plug, simply because there no room to work. I've actually removed the reel shelve to make more room before, just to make the job easier.
One other thought.. Have you checked the condition of the fuse holders? I've had problems with them too. Tops not tight, bent and tarnished connections inside too..
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If you are installing a new power supply , I wouldn't recommend using the old connector. This is hardest working board in the machine due to the heat . Get a new connector from NLG vendor here. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bally-Slot-Machine-E-Series-POWER-SUPPLY-CONNECTION-/350252825206?hash=item518cb1fa76 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bally-Slot-Machine-E-Series-POWER-SUPPLY-CONNECTION-/350252825206?hash=item518cb1fa76)
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Problem solved! I replaced the power supply with one of the snazzy new ones and now everything works great. I can only conclude that the original power supply was producing voltages that were right on the fence line of being enough for the machine to work correctly. That's probably why it would work great sometimes and tilt at others because the voltage was bouncing back and forth over the line of minimum power needed to work. Many thanks to you all for you're input, because of your suggestions I now have a perfect machine that I hope to enjoy for years to come.. Now, back to that troublesome jennings j400 sitting in the corner.....
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.....Problem solved! I replaced the power supply with one of the snazzy new ones and now everything works great. I can only conclude that the original power supply was producing voltages that were right on the fence line of being enough for the machine to work correctly. That's probably why it would work great sometimes and tilt at others because the voltage was bouncing back and forth over the line of minimum power needed to work......
Or that the power supply voltages were ok but they had excessive "ripple" (ac noise) on them from bad filter capacitors in the power supply.
Glad to hear you got it running, I know it is a relief to get it going. :cool_thumb_up:
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Glad to hear its running. The power supply's are the #1 problem in these machines. Sounds like the large cap was going bad on your old power supply.
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Thought you might like to see the machine
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Shiny and clean looking, appearance is extra nice. :cool_thumb_up:
About how much are those new snazzy power supplies you installed?
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Shiny and clean looking, appearance is extra nice. :cool_thumb_up:
Thanks, apparently it was well taken care of over the years. I don't know much about it's history other than it's dated 1984, it was originally from the Frontier Hotel and it's numbered as machine 0437. It even still had the Frontier Hotel security seals on the plastic mpu cover so I'm assuming it was completely original when I got it.
About how much are those new snazzy power supplies you installed?
$59.00 + free shipping on ebay. Thanks to Mr Spina!
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Those are great new power supply's. I was involved in the BETA Testing if them. I ran a prototype here for about 4-6 months before they were offered for sale. I have used them since too. Better quality then the original..