Bally 873 NO payout

[DirtinLa]

Where do I begin. Got my 25-925 coil intoday and installed it the coin stepper now works


Tested the hopper 110v to the motor and it spins


went through all the switches and steppers and all SEEM fine


Where do I start my trouble shooting and how?


Thanx in advance


-=Fred=-

[Jon]

Do you have a copy of the manual

[DirtinLa]

yes I do?

[Jon]

The first thing you need to do the same with any machine is familiarize your self with the switches and what they're called and where they're located that will be on page 12 and 13 and then we go to page 21 the winter circuit for a 3 & 5 line machine it will tell you where everything goes and comes from it is not exact to a 955 but it is really close I am curious if the payout relay is putting power through it when you tested the motor did you test it through the payout relay or did you put power directly to the motor

[DirtinLa]

Hi Jon,


I have em pinball experience so I know switches inside and out.


Perhaps I don't have specific manual but one that covers the 873 5 line 25cents machine I have


http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/bally_em_manual/bally%20em%20manual.pdf


The hopper I did only one test which was to power it with 110V.  I took the whole mechanical parts of the hopper


and cleaned and rebuilt cause it wasn't working at all. I then went thru all the switches and stepper before reinstallation


and all looked good. Hopper runs great under one 110 and I was able to jump 50 volts to the relay and it worked then too.


I did find a CLUE. The winner paid light remains lit which leads me to believe the hopper is NOT resetting. I have manually


I believe reset it  http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=18776.0


But not quite following the 4 ways to reset?


This sounds like a GREAT place to start. Let me go do some troubleshooting


Thank you


Fred

[Jon]

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=10610.0

Try this on the reset circuit I asked told me know to write this seven or eight months ago he did a wonderful job being that it is not in the manual

[DavidLee]

Try setting up a payout, say 10 coins. Tracy the circuit across the reel wiper boards. Starting on the 3rd reel board grey 90 wire to the 1st reel wiper board where it exits to the beau plug through the machine to the 10 coin solder joint on the payout step up unit. Should get continuity all the way. This should help eliminate this portion of the payoff circuit.


The 90 wire is activated through a series of switches and the discribed above, if all condition are met the hopper should run.


This circuit is typical for the 742 and 809, but your machine could be slightly different.

[OldReno]

Does the machine play?  Will it take coins?  Do you get handle pull? Does coin accept lite come on?
Pay problems you should worry about after you get game play.
Sounds like you know what you're doing.
Winner paid lite should go out after hopper reset solenoid fires and latches out its links.
Linkage latching physically pushes open winner paid lite switch you will find...its behind payboard by 100 tooth gear.
Lite will not go out until physically pushed open. What is confusing is that payboard can reset & win paid lite can still be on. Throws a lot of folks.

[OldReno]

Until you find out why your B25-925a burned, you should not leave machine on unattended for too long. ( i know the coil # by heart, having replaced enough of them)
They can take up to 10-20 minutes before they start smoking...
Just a caution, hate to see you have to replace it twice.
Generally they burn if the EOS switch stays closed, that upright switch opened when odds step up solenoid fires.
As i recall the EOS can get bent closed when putting top unit back in if you're not paying attention and bang it on case.

[DirtinLa]

Thanx everyone. I worked on the machine on and off all weekend.


I wish I knew the terminology, anyway now when you put a coin in it doesn't release the handle and it's not stepping.


I hear the 1 coin relay clicking but it not firing the release coil at the handle. I have cleaned and gone thru everything again[size=78%].[/size]




I'll let y'all know what find out. all solenoid are working


Reno the machine was dead when I got it and I don;t leave it plugged in


thanx


Fred

[Denmark]

Did you check the switches behind the air cylinder - if they dont close when handle is i rest position,it wont release handle relay,check for broken contacts there..
The air cylinder tents to get mega gummi ,so that might be the case.

[DirtinLa]

Reno, I missed your post:"Generally they burn if the EOS switch stays closed, that upright switch opened when odds step up solenoid fires. As i recall the EOS can get bent closed when putting top unit back in if you're not paying attention and bang it on case."


I know I have no bent or closed switches but (EOS) I presume end of stroke is the switches on the multicoin stepper?

Does the machine play?   YES  Will it take coins? YES   Do you get handle pull? NO
Does coin accept lite come on? NO Has in the recent past but not right now

Sounds like you know what you're doing.  NOT really, just very mechanically inclined with limited pinball EM experience.

Winner paid lite should go out after hopper reset solenoid fires and latches out its links.

Reno: Is this what you were speaking of that fools PPL? Would the winner paid and coin accepted both come on?
Here is what mine was doing; The winner paid lite stays on.  at one point the coin accepted lite would come on and the winner paid lite

would go out.


"Lite will not go out until physically pushed open. What is confusing is that payboard can reset & win paid lite can still be on. Throws a lot of folks." 
I was reading about this that it can partially reset the machine but not do a total reset. Don't quite understand  why.

Denmark:  Yes I did check and adjust those switches. I also went through and tested every single solenoid.

The good news is the hopper is at least beginning to turn. When I hit the coin in microswitch

sometime the hoppers pays me two or three coins.

I believe the machine to be possesed and it feels if it don't give me something I am going to give up on it LOL

It will not beat me!


-=Fred=-

[DavidLee]

Have you tried operating the machine by pulling the handle lock lever forward which allows the handle to be pulled.
Sometimes this will reset the machine or help locate a problem.
Photos show the release lever.

[OldReno]

Fred, first thing to start a game is to push down on the coin in switch. Downstroke of that should trip your coin relay assembly. It is located on left rear side of reel mech. That turns on the coin accept lite & conditions machine to release handle on upstroke. Tripping the coin relay by coin switch or by hand closes coin accept lite switch & closes NO sw in handle circuit. If coin relay doesnt trip you get no game play.
Circuit to coin relay goes through a NC switch on the handle stack, if its open coin relay wont fire.
That handle sw is a two way, when handle drops, next coin in pulses odds step up since you already tripped the coin relay.
Take it from there see what you can find.

[DirtinLa]

Thanx guys, I got some sleep last night and didn't do anything on the machine except to plug it in and


hope it magically worked LOL  which it didn't...


The machine when I first got it was stone cold dead. NO ELECTRICITY.  but you could pull the handle and


the reels spun and stopped. Wouldn't accept a coin, went straight through. Simple fix 1 fuse and had


lights. Other fuse(50V) and had electricity. after some research I found the burnt up B25-925

and ordered one... in the mean time


while waiting I went thru all the reel mechs and went thru the multicoin relay switches and got the hopper


functional.


I also found a screw jammed into handle release lever, which explained the free pulls and removed


it. The coin mech now worked.


the  Machine would then say coin accepted, winner light would go out sometime, and would take a coin


but no payout.


the b25 coil came in and I installed it and the machine would step thru all the coins (5) but if you wanted


to put in 10 it wouldn't stop you like it should and return them to the tray. well still no pay out.


So I begin at the reel mech and double and tripple check all the switches and coils... all good and clean


and functioning. Do the same to the hopper. Do the same to the handle switches and the multicoin. jumped


all coils and they all work. everything steps fine as well but won't step when you put in a coin and won't reset the handle


Put it back together still no payout and now it will accept a coin but won't say coin accepted and will not step.


winner paid lite stays on and SOMETIME when I hit the coin accepted switch wire the hopper will spit

coins at me  LOL


I flip the little coin accepted switch wire and you hear the coil fire up in the top unit. I ass-u-me that


is the coil marked first coin, but it's not going any further then that coil.


Question on the flow of electricity, coin goes in and flips that little switch wire. that switch goes where


first? to the "first coin relay" or does it goto the coin relay stack on the reels?


reason for my question is I'm quite certain all switches are good BUT I need to know where to search first?


Sorry I am so long winded.


-=Fred=-

[OldReno]

1st coin in sequence
Here's what happens when you push down on the coin switch...(note wire colors may be different for your machine).
Signal travels from 30 wire to 23 wire. 23 goes from door to a handle release sw NC to a 21 wire. It leaves handle stack and goes to reel mech to a coin relay sw 58 wire NC. This 58 wire is connected to coin relay coil which immedately fires & trips the coin relay -- moving all of its switches.
If your coin relay trips, then coin accept lite turns on immediately. This is how a mechanic knows coin relay tripped without even opening the door.
If you're not sure if it tripped, then pull out your reel mech and look at it.
If it does not trip, then put your meter on ohms & test all of the above switches.
Also ohm out your coin in switch, as often people will wire them backwards   It should read 30 wire to 74 wire NC and 30 wire to 23 wire NO.
And when you push down on coin sw the readings reverse.

The reason for accepting more than 5 coins is you may be missing the coin lockout coil armature which is hidden behind the coin acceptor. If the lockout coil is on it pulls the armature away from the hole in the coin acceptor which keeps it from blocking (locking out) the coins.
If lockout is on it accepts coins. If lockout is off it rejects coins back into the tray. If lockout armature (paddle) is missing, then no coins are rejected, and you can insert as many coins as you want. 
Hope that helps. We'll get through this bit by bit.

[DirtinLa]

Awesome info. I'll let you know what I come up with tonight

[DirtinLa]

I ohmed the wire from the coin switch to the handle switch  your colors were correct 30 to 23  then 23 to 21 then I traced the 21 to the plug it ohmed from the 21


follow me here please. Looking into the cabinet the 21 ohmed to the left plug on the big round on the right and the bottom 3rd one from the right.  on the left plug it ohmed to the same two connectors but only partially


then I traced the coin coil that trips the reel switches and it went to a completely different plug


now this was at one point working  I saw it working and I haven't disconnected or redid any wires so something isn't right


bunches of pics attached

[Jon]

Can you get a better picture of these wires going to the switch please

[DirtinLa]

pics you requested