Bally mustang 903-D BM-55 Rebuild the 861 hopper to a 903d hopper

[SPN]

Hi

I just bought this machine and I have just started the restoration and it looks like the hopper is not the right one for this machine or there is some other issues with the hopper/machine.. When I insert the hopper the 5amp fuse goes and it makes a flash and burn mark on the 100 coin Wiper Assembly

I guess I need to start somewhere and wonder how I can see if it is the right hopper payout unit or what’s wrong?

 

[DavidLee]

It appears high voltage is crossing over into the 100 / jackpot payout.
There could be a loose wire strand or metallic object shorting this particular circuit.

Examine the payout relay top left back of hopper.
Also any related jackpot relays.

Regarding the correct hopper, check the wiper boards for identification inscriptions.
Also the hopper chassis might have been marked with the model number.

[wolftalk]

the 903A - 903D and 903F all used the same reel wiper wiring, payout counter disc (m-645-144 on it) and reel index discs (unless your reel 3 index disc has 684-91 stamped on it)

the 903-A docs are on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/

the reel tapes were different, but that's not really relevant to your issue.

[SPN]

Here’s a picture of it and it says m 645 - 118

[SPN]

Here’s the picture of the payout counter disc.. 645-118 so that can maybe be the problem?

Thanks guys 😇😇

[wolftalk]

now ya gotta verify.

the -118 disc may work ... it just depends on whether the needed trace lengths are there for the payouts you need.  Got a picture of the entire front of the game showing the reel strips and payouts?

you also would need to compare the entire wiring of the hopper unit to what the schematic (and the plug chart on the schematic) says.

if someone just stuffed a random hopper into the game that had the right size beau plug, you'd kinda expect some fireworks :-)

[SPN]

Here's a picture of the machine

[wolftalk]

ok, the m-645-118 payout counter disc will work fine.  It doesn't have the ability to pay 40, but your game doesn't need it and maybe no mustang models did.

w-923-147 below is what my docs say should be in a mustang, and the second one is how a -118 disc would be wired, so you can verify those.

assuming your payout disc is wired correctly, pull the hopper, stick paper under the outboard wiper fingers,  and use an ohmeter to see if you have an almost zero ohm resistance between the 100 trace and wire 70 on the beau plug or any coil on the hopper.

if the 100 trace is ok, leave a probe on wire 70 and poke the outboard wiper fingers, 50 trace and 200 trace.

also, is where the white wire connected to the 100 trace outboard wiper finger bent and shorting to the metal carriage?

[SPN]

I got no respond either on the 100, 50 or the 200 hundred when I connect from 70 (total orange) but when I tried from 20 I got a respond as you can see from the pictures.

[SPN]

Picture 2

[wolftalk]

1] how many pins are on the hopper plug and the socket inside the cabinet?

2] do the wire colors on the hopper plug pins match the diagram below? (I always forget if the diagram is looking at the plug pins or the socket...there's numbers on the thing, but it's easier to match the pattern of unused pins).

if you stick a probe on the 20 trace and poke the wire 23 pin (pin 5, blue/yellow wire) with the other probe, you should get zero ohms.  Poke wire 70 pin and you should get infinite.

it sounds like your suspicion that it's the wrong hopper might be right ... but you can probably make that hopper work by rewiring the beau plug.

a sanity check is compare the wire colors on the plug and socket ... they should be the same at each pin position.  If they aren't, it's not necessarily safe to just rearrange the hopper plug to match.  It may work since bally often used the same colors in the same circuits on differnt games, but you should verify each wire. 

if nothing else, make sure the 120V wires are connected to the hopper motor and payout relay switches correctly.  You really don't want to short the 120V onto the 50V or 6V circuits.

[SPN]

Yes they look different if you compare the two pictures..

 

[SPN]

Here’s the other picture of the socket..

[wolftalk]

yeah, that's not gonna work.

back to david's comment ... is there any writing on the hopper?  A lot of times black sharpie was used to write the model number on the hopper front.  If you have that, it'll make life easier working out if you have all the necessary pieces on the hopper so rewiring can make it work.

a 30 pin hopper plug was common on 809 models, but it could be anything.

are you familiar with the wire color codes?  e.g. black with red stripe would be 81 or 81-x.

it'd help if you can write down the wire codes or colors at each pin location on the hopper plug.    You can see the pin numbers on the plug housing.

your cabinet socket looks right comparing it to the plug chart posted previously, so without any more info on what model the hopper came from the next step after writing down all the wire colors is see if your hopper has colors that don't match any socket wires, and see where they go on the hopper.

if you're bored, you can rewire the hopper plug to match the socket/plug chart and then verify where the wires go ... gamble that it's going to work so it's not wasted effort.

[SPN]

Since the hopper was rusty and in general very bad condition I remade it with parts in pretty good condition and I just saw that the old front says 861 if that make any sense?

[wolftalk]

861 I have no info on, so you're going to need to do one of:

1] move the wires on the hopper plug so they match the socket and hope it works.  You have a reasonable chance and as long as the solid green (40), white (50), and black (80) wires match, you won't be shorting the 120V onto anything else.

2] for each pin on the hopper currently, write down its color and where it's going, then compare to the 903-A schematic and see if the wire color is the same for that function.  e.g. the wire going to the 20 trace on the payout counter is blue/yellow (23);   the wires going to the payout relay coil are orange (70) and grey/yellow (93); etc.

I'd probably do both at the same time ... if the current wire on a pin is the right color, confirm where it goes.  If it's the wrong color, confirm where it goes and move it to the correct pin.

you probably need to move a wire or two on the payout counter to make the right wire colors connect to the right traces per the second diagram in post 7, so I'd check/fix the wiring on the payout counter traces first, then do the rest.



does that make sense?  To do it, you'll need to read the schematic and the color codes on the schematic.

[SPN]

I’m just done comparing my wiring with the 809b and it’s 99% the same. See picture and the Red Cross is blank on my beau plug

[wolftalk]

ok, wiring shifted because the 903 has wire 10-2 connecting to a payout relay switch, and that switch doesn't exist on the 809B.   It's for the bell.

do you need help figuring out what to do or are you okay now?

[SPN]

I guess I need all the help I can get but I’m learning a lot thanks to you

So that means that I start with a blank and 13 (2) and 14 (3) and so on.. and is 36-1 and 36-2 the same or do I pass that one?

Do I need to change them all, like start move them over to a new beau plug (I got an extra beau plug if needed)

What about those that not exist like 10-2  45 38-1 

36-1 and 36-2 shal be on the same place or?

 38-2 I can see is moved all the way down so I guess that one I move up like on the 903b ..

I will try to start re wiring tonight I guess even that I never done something like this before and I could never done this without you guys

[wolftalk]

in this case, the instance number on the wire id (the -x part) doesn't matter.   You just need to match the color code because all the wires on the hopper plug are different colors.

what i'd do is fill in a table that looks like this:

903 plug
pin #		id 903-A / schem loc.				id 809-B / schem loc.				function
1		10-2 / V19				none				wire from payout relay to jackpot bell
2		13 / J31				13 / 6T				wire to 2 trace on payout disc
...

if you're not too familiar with the schematics, I can go thru that, but can't get to it until tomorrow.

do you have extra parts for the machines?  If there isn't a 809-B payout relay switch you can repurpose for the bell circuit, it's possible to add another switch if you have the blades, longer screws, and there's an available place to put in in the relay stacks (the blade lifter has a place to add a switch).

got pictures of your payout relay from a few angles?