Bally 873. Payout hopper not acting nice.

[George Bork]

My son managed to get a penny stuck in the payout hopper. Cleared the Jam, inspected the payout hopper for bent things. None found. powered up the unit after a fresh fill of the correct coins. Hit a payout (777) and during the jackpot the unit will pay three coins, stop make a clicking noise for about ten seconds. Payout three coins and repeat until the unit goes dark with the front door open. Reset the thermal by pushing the lever at the bottom left of the hopper and than the unit will repeat the three coins over and over until it goes dark again. I'm at a loss perhaps someone has seen this before? the hopper will run no problem if I apply A.C directly to the motor.

[DavidLee]

I believe there’s a micro switch that resets the time out clock.

Speaking off the top of my head.
The switch is associated with a with ratchet wheel in the payout step up unit.

[slcjeeper]

Are you able to remove the 3 screws on the coin agitator? 2 are short and 1 is long. Let us know if the long one can be removed.

[Herbie21]

Question Jeep I always wondered why two are short and one is long do you know?

cheers Herbie

[slcjeeper]

The long screw acts as a stop post to prevent the pin wheel from freely spinning. One post is permanently affixed. During assembly it's important to note this and insure that the motor arm will be between these two stops. If it's mounted outside the stop you'll know because the pinwheel will be able to be freely turned almost one revolution.

[George Bork]

I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box. The machine played correctly until the penny jam. By removing these screws what am I attempting to do?

[slcjeeper]

If the long screw can't be removed,  it could have gotten bent in the coin jam. This could cause an irratic spin of the pin wheel. Make sure that the motor arm sandwiched between the long screw and attached post on the pin wheel. The coin knife should ride on the edge of the coin shelf. If the tip of the knife is bent or worn, coins may fall out before they can ride their way to payout.

[George Bork]

I removed the pin wheel, lubricated the bearings and tested the augar motor on A.C power. The motor runs just fine and the knife looks good. I reinstalled the hopper, filled with coins and lined up a winning combo. Same thing, the hopper spits out a few coins, pauses for a short period of time and than repeats the cycle of the few coins. This repeats over and over again until the unit goes dark. Reset the hopper and the cycle repeats.

[DavidLee]

Thinking delay relay and or safety timer.

Try adding more time to the safety/time out timer.

If possible post a photo of the machine as to know what model it is.

[wolftalk]

there are many versions of the 873 ... hopefully you have a model number plate below the handle and it's actually right.

however, all the 873's I peeked at schems for have nothing fancy in the hopper/safety motor circuit.  If the payout relay is powered, the hopper motor should run continuously.

lengthening the safety motor timeout would mask the problem, which I assume is the payout relay is unpowering occasionally.

if the only thing you really did was pull the hopper to clear the jam, then cleaning the hopper plug pins may help.   If that's no good, verify the payout relay is not staying powered until the payout is complete and go from there.

if the payout relay is staying powered but the hopper motor is turning off, then check the two redundant switches on the payout relay with the white and green wires on them.

[DavidLee]

Wolftalk,

I haven’t looked at a schematic for the machine.
So in general is there a capacitor involved that might be loosing power.

It’s possible a beau-plug pin is involved resolving in a bad circuit.
His description refers to the machine stopping and then restarting.
Indicates circuits are good, but a hesitation occurs.

If the time was extended on the timer for testing purposes only.
This would narrow the search for the problem if the machine begins to work properly.

[wolftalk]

hi david,

the 873's appear to have the early safety circuit that just runs the safety motor when the hopper motor is running, so the timeout/shutdown has to be long enough for the highest payout + some margin. 

the later circuit with the diode/capacitor/ratchet microswitch kept resetting the safety motor, and if it didn't the shutdown happened extremely fast compared to the early design ... a few coins compare to 100's.

it's possible the machine is a very late model 873 with the newer circuit, or the newer circuit/motor was retrofitted in, but it sounds like he's got plenty of time to see if the payout relay is unpowering.

I was assuming it's the early circuit, in which case timeout shouldn't happen for a pretty long time ... certainly long enough to see what the payout relay is doing as the first step of narrowing it down.

if the hopper is stopping, it could only be one of:
- payout relay unpowering
- 120V payout relay switches flaky
- mechanical issue with the hopper motor or hopper ... in which case the override solenoid would stay powered but the pinwheel would stall for some reason
- the plug connections are flaky or a wire is breaking off a plug pin

I keyed more off the clicking noise.  That could be the payout relay or override solenoid chattering or the payout relay switches arcing.

[DavidLee]

Wolftalk,

A photo of the area under the hopper might reveal a clue to what’s up.

Drawing of a later model safety timer circuit like you mentioned.

Stop starting situation leads me to believe it has a later model kind of set up.

[George Bork]

Thank you everybody for the replies and the schematic. I will send some photos of the hopper assembly when I'm back home. Complete beginner here. Curious on where these switch locations are on the physical unit. I've found the microswitch on the cam, but at am a loss on the locations of the others. I'm assuming it may be a good idea to replace the capacitors (2). I will ohm out the resistor and look for the diode.

[DavidLee]

Late model Hopper photo.

[DavidLee]

Hopper close up.

[George Bork]

Maybe perhaps I have an oddball from Ceasers Palace! Mine has two relays on the front. A 48 volt relay and a
12 ? volt relay. I'll post when I return!

[wolftalk]

please post a pic of the model/serial number plate below the handle.

below is a pic of the the payotu counter ratchet side with the newer safety circuit david is describing.  Note the microswitch that falls into notches every 5-6 coins.  That resets the safety motor.

if the payout counter isn't stepping, the microswitch doesn't change state and the safety motor shuts down the whole machine within a few coins.

cams with the old style safety circuit ... or no safety circuit ... don't have the cam or microswitch.  They just have the ratchet that is underneath that steps the wipers.

[Chris-socal]

George, did you say if the game is decrementing credits when it kicks out the 3 coins?

[George Bork]

Picture one of my hopper.