Double Black Tie likely with multiple issues (Resolved!)

[Stayouttadabunker]

The 25 cent light is lit, and all 3 fuses are good. There are some IC's on the board, guess one could have failed.
I'll message Jim, and see about ordering a new display, then maybe I can make some progress on it.

ok good on the fuse check.
The center lamp on means part of your power is working from the power supply fuses.
The LEDs power on the display would be from the other fuse.
Pulling out the center black Molex plug from the display would make the .25 cent lamp go out.
Now the problem is coming down to either that right-side display harness or a bad IC component.
What was always bad is how bare all the circuitry was with no covering over that board.
It's not that difficult to cut through a trace on the circuit board with some metal scraping against it.

So...check the 5 pins on that right-side black Molex connector.
It's possible a ground pin inside has been pushed back to the point of not touching the opposite gender pin.
See if you push each wire into the Molex from behind then insert it back into the display connection.
maybe the LED will come back on.

Good thing too is these reel glass display panels aren't too expensive to replace.
A stuck logic data in the system will do weird things too....clearing the machine can help at times for sure.

[coinopNOldPhones]

Is the clear performed with a special chip? I recall reading a procedure that used a different chip to reset different things. Would I be able to do this even with the display out?

[therockinelvis]

Check your SP chip for bent or broken legs. And yes a clear and bv set chips are needed.

[Jim]

I would double check all your connections on the motherboard.  I have seen a machine work 100% and not have the display work, it was a connector in the wrong place, dragging down the strobe signal.  check these first!

Jim

[coinopNOldPhones]

Jim, I have checked them, and it looks like they are where they should be. It looks like the connectors are all different sizes, so I'm not for sure if any are in the wrong spots.


The machine doesn't play at all, no coins are accepted and the reels do not spin on power up.


I did check the right side molex on the display, all pins on the harness side are secure, and I also didn't see any obvious damage to the traces on the board.


Should my next priority be ordering the reset chips, or a display, or are there still a few more tests I could do before then?

[Stayouttadabunker]

If you manually move a couple of reels with your hand and then turn on the power, the machine will put the reels where they were before you moved them upon powering up...does this happen?

If so, then I would say there's nothing wrong with your software and the problem lays with zero power to half of the display instead or a bad display panel since we know that the 25 cent lamp works.
The problem is the far right LED isn't displaying anything to tell you what state the machine is in.

I would buy a Clear & SET pair of chips and a display panel.

I don't like that red and black bare wires you have on top of your motherboard or the bare ones on the right side of the DBV.
They should NOT be like that....never turn on the power switch with bare wires in a metal cabinet.
Can you put up a still photo of the bar red wire on top of the motherboard?
Someone rigged something in that area....need to determine if it has anything to do with why the display is displaying anything other than the 25 cent lamp.
Tape up the bare wires by the DBV too....don't need those for now but also don't need them touching metal either.

[coinopNOldPhones]

If I move the reels with power off, they stay that way when the machine is powered on, except they "lock" in place (resistance when turning by hand)


Here are the pics. The wires were all taped after the vid, I untaped the red one for the pic, but taped it back up. https://imgur.com/a/kIRI678


The black connector had a very short piece of red wire where the black wire is, I swapped pins out of a junk connector I had, and connected it to the cut red wire, but it made no difference. Is this connector even supposed to have just one wire?


The wires by the validator are to a set of IR transmitter and receivers where the bill box goes, 2 of the wires are cut way too short, the other two are now taped up. I'll likely need a whole new harness for that, if it's even needed.

First photo:  red wire was attached to this
Second photo: red wire, cut when I got the machine.

[Stayouttadabunker]

okay...If that red wire is out of there now, that's good.
I think they were trying to tap into 12 volts on it for some reason....to try to power the DBV?
I don't know but that red wire isn't needed for now.
I think at some point they had the pin next to the black wire at the 1st pin location on the right end of the Molex.
The black single wire on that longer black Molex was plugged into the motherboard on the floor on the front right hand side.
Sometimes guys try to tap into that for power or a data signal for something they want to hook up like a communication port.
I'll have to check a machine to make sure what those last two pins were for tomorrow but offhand I recall it was for a data signal to a small comm board for another device up in the topbox it was bridged to.

On the other ones you have by the right side of the DBV, I need to know the exact colors of yours hanging there.
They could have a colored stripe on them.
Tomorrow I will be next to an S+ and will take some good detailed photos for you so you can hook u that DBV, even though it's an old outdated one.
Sometimes photos don't tell the whole story because of the lighting and you can't always see the striped color right.

We'll know a lot more tomorrow how that DBV should be wired up to see if it'll turn on and go thru it's "boot up " mode.
But it may still not work if it's not enabled with a SET chip.
SET 015 should work fine to enable the DBV and there's a lot of "How-To" up in the beginning of the S+ reel forums and How-To" (FAQ) on the homepage of NLG for S+'s.
However, if enabled, it will possible pull in older one dollar bills for credits to the machine....that DBV 145 is so old, it only takes older small-headed bills.

With your fuses checked, black Molex connectors checked, I think your display could be shot by someone trying to hook 12 volts to it or something.
Without another display to check against, it's hard to tell if this machine has a stuck logic data signal that can be cleared with a Clear chip or if someone zapped the display board with incorrect power.

Tomorrow I can look at some schematics and see if there's a way I can draw you a way to check your display LEDs with a simple 9 volt battery and a couple of wires....only known thing working is the .25cent lamp.

Do you have a multimeter to check some pins if I tell you what power voltages are supposed to come out of a display connector on the door harness?

Also...here's a link to some reading you should familiar yourself with...>>>



http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=28444.0

[coinopNOldPhones]

Good info, thanks!


The wires on the DBV go to two optical sensors in the bill box compartment, I'm assuming they sense if the bill box is removed to trigger an alarm. There are 4 wires, but only 2 are accessible, brown and orange, no stripe. (I've worked with telecom wiring alot, so I'm familiar with looking for unique color codes on wires. )


I figured that DBV was old as dirt. Would it be possible in the future to replace it with a more modern one, to take the newer big head bills? A coupon printer would be cool too, but I'll worry about that after I get the machine working! I'd also be satisfied with it just taking coins for now.




Yes, I do have multimeters, as well as jumpers and test leads for back-probing connectors.


I'll continue reading up on the S+ stuff, it's actually pretty interesting reading.
 I'm hoping this machine can be brought back to life, as it will be my first slot machine. I'm not afraid to get into the nitty gritty of it either, I've seen some videos of programming, and it doesn't seem too intimidating.

Shortrackskater, thanks for the info, I will upload directly to the site in the future!

[Stayouttadabunker]

An upgraded DBV 200 that will take some newer bills are available with NLG vendors here.

Normal TITO printers are not available for S+ platform of IGT machines.
This is why they introduced the S2000 line-up.
The only printer possible right now is something made by a small company in Long Island, NY that uses the hopper beau plug and an ICT CR printer sticking thru a hole cut out in the coin tray...but it eliminates any coin usage.
I once made an ICT printer to fit thru a topbox panel, but that was an extreme modification.
You can worry about all that later, right now we need to get your machine up and running the way it's supposed to.
I want to clarify something first...>>>

Earlier, a member replied that your reels are energized when you power up the machine and you get resistance on the reels as in a "holding" position....like as if the game is in a "waiting" mode.....that's good.
That signifies that the reels are getting power to the stepper motors.

BUT....I want to see that the reel chip (SS prom) is working correctly as well as the RAM memory chips.
There are two of these memory chips in an S+...a larger one on the main MPU and a much smaller one on the floor motherboard.
It's vital that they are working properly.
This is really about the only test that you can do for your software without a properly working reel glass display panel.

To check this, note what symbols are are the center-line position now....even if it on a blank position, then move the reels from wherever they are presently... to a new position.
After this is done, turn the power on.
After "booting up", the reel symbols should go back to where they were BEFORE you moved them.

If this happens, then the RAM and reels chips are okay and dropping in a CLEAR chip may bring back your display panel to the point of seeing some numeral in the [Coins Played] display on the far right-hand side of the display panel - in the hopes that the problem lies only with a stuck logic data signal.
If the display does not come back after Clearing the RAM, then you need a new display panel....maybe.

[coinopNOldPhones]

Good to know I can get a newer DBV, not so concerned about the printer, just thought it would be a neat option, and yes, I'm more concerned about getting the whole thing up and going first.


The reels do not reset to the original position after power up, they stay in whatever position I set them in. does this mean the chips could be bad, and if so, are replacements available?  I do remember it possibly briefly spinning the reels at power up, early on when my boss still owned it, but could be mistaken.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Okay...that's not good and we're not sure yet about your chips...I'm hoping the only problem is that you have a stuck logic signal in the system....similar to a [61-1] error loop.
There's one more thing you can try...>>>

Turn on the power switch...wait about ten seconds then with the door open, physically move the 3rd reel with your hand about a quarter turn and note where the symbols are on the payline.

Close the door and make sure the door latch knob is fully in the down position.
Watch the reels, they should spin back to where they were.

If not, you better get a CLEAR chip and a SET 015 chip (for enabling the DBV later).
Many NLG member/vendors should have new chips and parts you need.
I'm surprised you have not yet placed an WTB ad in the Classifieds section of NLG for these parts.

Remember, even clearing the RAM may not fix this machine presently and we're hoping the only thing you may need is a new reel glass display panel.


Another question, did this machine work when your boss had it?
Did he have someone do something to it?
Prior history is always helpful to troubleshooting...
Also, you've stated that the motherboard and MPU were replaced....but were they "known working" and tested good?

[Jim]

here are some pictures to compare your motherboard plugs!   Jim
this is from a working machine,  make sure the ones that have something in them are the same wiring and color wires, and the connectors that have nothing in them, are empty!

also, in reply #2 you show the display, check the DC voltage across C-4,  black electrolytic cap,  should be +VB,  8-10 vdc.

[coinopNOldPhones]

The reels do not spin back after closing the door, so looks like I will get set 15 and clear chips.


With the door closed, turning the reset key causes a click sound in the machine, and the "spin reels" button lights up. Pushing it doesn't do anything though.


As far as condition, I'm pretty sure it was non operating when my boss got it, I believe all he did was replace the motherboard and the MPU board, and swapped the chips over. (the chips are correctly oriented in the holders, no damaged pins) No clue on where he got the replacement boards, but they are used, I also don't know if they were tested or not.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Excellent photos Jim!

That will help him see what should go where! 

I will add that the connector with all the brown wires and different colored stripes isn't needed as it's only for the mechanical counters.

I will take some photos of the DBV wires if you haven't already done so.

[coinopNOldPhones]

Thanks Jim, that's exactly what I have, in terms of colors and what is/isn't plugged into each socket.


I can't post on the classifieds, apparently, but I want to go ahead and get the set15 and clear chips.

[Stayouttadabunker]

if you have a multi-meter, you can check these voltages I've found on the connector to the display that has 5 wires going into the black Molex.

I checked these voltages with the machine turned on, and 5-pin Molex pulled out of display panel.

My multi-meter is set on 20DCV for the Vdc voltages and 200ACV for the Vac voltage readings.

The negative probe is grounded onto the base of the hopper or floor metal and the positive probe on the pins exposed on the back of the Molex housing from left to right...>>>

Gray/Blue stripe =   +0.48Vdc or +0.6Vac
Gray/Violet stripe = -0.03Vdc or 0Vac
Gray/Green stripe = zero Vdc or zero Vac
Red/Black stripe = +8.55Vdc or +18.2Vac
Green (Ground)  = zero Vdc or zero  Vac

Yours may vary slightly but be in the ballpark. Please post anything way out of specs.

[coinopNOldPhones]

gray/blue .6vdc
gray/violet 51 mVdc
gray/green 35 mVdc
red/black 10.7 vdc
green 0 vdc


when I plugged it back in, the LEDs on the far left display came on very briefly, about half a second or less. I checked for loose pins or bad solder joints on the board, and all seems good. It only did it once though.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Wiggle the gray wires on the black Molex and watch the display from the front.
If it flickers on when you move them, we may have solved this?
Also, your voltages you're getting on the gray wires are in milivolts Vdc?

The gray/violet and the gray/green stripe is much higher than mine.
I'm suspecting that the MPU is trying to shoot some data thru but the LEDs aren't lighting up to show what.

The red/black stripe is a little higher than mine....that's the power to the LEDs....it's okay because LEDs carry a resistor in their respective lines.
Check the solid green wire...that's the common ground for the display....critical that it's not broken INSIDE UNDER THE VINYL COVERING somewhere.
I may be hanging on by a strand of wire and mostly vinyl covering at a pin contact.

I'd be powering off and checking that green ground wire for resistance.
It runs to the coin comparitor harness big white Molex connector on the door.
It will be behind the coin comparitor.....check for continuity between that pin in that white Molex and the Black Molex pin.

[coinopNOldPhones]

no luck, I think the pins on the back of the PCB might have touched the metal inside the door when I was reattaching it. I'll have to watch that in the future, don't want to create more problems!