S+ bill validator and underpay no code issue

[Phan000]

Bill validator (DBV-145ss) cycles on with power up.


Does not take bills. When I use the denomination/BV chip a 62-0 code shows, and there is frequent clicking from meters.

Also,  getting code 3100 after every cash out.  (Fixed)


Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Thanks!

[knagl]

You have two different issues going on here -- I'll try to address them both.

62_0 is a "Bad game PROM" error, indicating that the EPROM in the GAME socket is not valid. Are you sure that your SET chip is good, and are you positive that it is inserted correctly in the socket? (Ensure the notch on in the EPROM matches the notch on the socket, and ensure that all legs are inserted properly.) Make sure you're following the directions here exactly as written. If you're doing everything correctly and still getting a 62_0 error with your SET chip correctly installed, I'd suspect you have a bad SET chip or are using an incorrect SET chip for the SP chip in your game.


3100 is an Extra Coin Paid Out error. The machine is detecting that an extra coin was paid out -- this usually happens because the spring for the hopper brake is disconnected or damaged. Without a functioning brake, the hopper wheel drifts to a stop rather than stopping instantly, resulting in an extra coin sneaking out. Do a search here in the S+ subforum for "hopper brake" and you'll find a bunch of posts about it.

[Phan000]

Still haven’t addressed bill validator as I have been focused on hopper.




I swapped the brake and spring with spare parts.  No more 3100 code.


However, the machine is underpaying a few coins.


 The bell sounds, and the machine thinks it has made a full payment, but typically there are one or more coins less than the win.  I tried swapping the sensor, but it had no effect.


What might cause this?

[knagl]

When you said you swapped the sensor, are you talking about the coin-out optics?

I've never heard of a machine consistently underpaying before. Can you post a few pictures of your hopper?

Are you familiar with running a hopper test? Can you do that with the door open please to see if you can determine why the machine is counting coins out but not actually dispensing them all?

[Phan000]

When you said you swapped the sensor, are you talking about the coin-out optics?

I've never heard of a machine consistently underpaying before. Can you post a few pictures of your hopper?

Are you familiar with running a hopper test? Can you do that with the door open please to see if you can determine why the machine is counting coins out but not actually dispensing them all?

Yes, I switched out the optic sensor. 


The knife was pretty out of adjustment when I got the machine.  Seems to be working ok now, but still getting a jam on occasion.  May have to replace.


I am more familiar with EM slots, so if you could give me the abbreviated method to test the hopper, I would really appreciate it.


Here are some photos of the hopper-

[jay]

You might also want to check that the glass matches the chips for the theme you are using.


It would not be likely that the glass says payout of 60 coins and you got 58 or 59 but if it was something like 40 coins paid on a 60 coin win it could be the wrong chips for the glass.
On our home page (bottom right) is Ricks Faqs which have instructions on how to display your game and reel chip numbers.
You can then go to the Online IGT game bible for your theme and see if those numbers are listed.

[Phan000]

It seems more like the coins are getting intermittently recycled into the hopper rather than dispensed. Always


A win of 5  coins will chime 5 times, show 5 coins paid in the display, but only dispense 3 or 4 quarters.


It does not seem like an award glass/chip discrepancy.

[sixcardmark]

Press test button until you get a 3 in coins played window. Turn jackpot reset key should dispense 10 coins.

[Stayouttadabunker]

it sounds like the knife is bent?

Or the top of the knife is gummed up with dirt and coin dust.

The coins could be falling off after going thru the coin optics, getting counted as a credit but unable to get out to the coin tray.

Even a piece of human hair can get in the way.

[Phan000]

So the coins were dropping off back into the hopper after exiting the optic.


I put a new knife in, but am having a very hard time adjusting.


If screwed down very tight, the knife bows and the tip lifts up.  Looser makes the coins go all over.


There are a few rubber bushings in the knife screws.


Thinking the coin deflector may be bent as well.


Thanks for all the advice!

[Stayouttadabunker]

Go watch some of my S+ videos on youtube I posted up years ago...might help you?

3.4 thousand viewers have watched my simple "Hopper Operation" video now...ridiculous! 

Here's the link...>>>

https://www.youtube.com/user/stayouttadabunker2/videos

[jay]

Time to sell banner adds and monitize!!
Crazy amount of views, but we do appreciate all the extra effort you put in to building these.
Thanks Mark 

[knagl]

It's entirely possible that there were different quarter hopper parts made over the years, but for what it's worth the wheel in your hopper does not look like either of the ones in my $0.25 S+ hoppers.  In particular, circled in red on the picture from your machine, my hopper wheel does not have the metal nub sticking out, and the rubber agitator is flat against the wheel, not sticking up like in your picture.

Additionally, circled in yellow, the pins to bring coins up are more rectangular on my quarter hoppers (green box on my picture).

Finally, it should not be possible for a coin to break the optic beam and then fall back into the hopper.  The quarter-sized tokens in my machine follow the blue line I drew on my photo -- there's no physical way for them to pass through the optics and then make it back into the hopper.

Are there any hopper experts who can chime in with some clarification here?

[Amechanic]

That hopper coin wheel with the metal cones sticking up, looks to be from a early Bally. Those hoppers didn’t have or use the rubber hopper agitators.

[Phan000]

I cleaned the plates well, still having issues. I agree that the agitator looks out of place and resembles the part from my EM Ballys.


Thinking the outer plate is maybe spaced too far for quarters?  Perhaps it is not the right one for this hopper?


Here is a slo-mo video of the problem. 

https://youtu.be/AZz91wxcWiU

The knife is tight, brand new and seems adjusted.  But you can see how I had to use spacers to get the end out a bit to prevent the tip from bowing out

[Jim]

the hopper contains two wheels, the pin wheel and the shelf wheel. both are specific to a certain size coin, many were made for different size coins.  the one you have is typically used in a slant top hopper, it can be used for nickels and quarters. it will work in a side eject hopper as well. the shelf wheel typically is flat, no cones on it, the one you have came out of a slant top hopper, they typically don't have agitators, thus the cones serve that function. 

you should never have to compensate for anything not being the correct position!
your main problem is the metal piece that the knife rests on, there is a metal tab that has to be angled and fits into the indent in the black plastic housing. on your hopper it is sticking out and the coins are hitting it and going everywhere.

the knife should never be shimmed out as yours! the knife won't sit flush on the metal piece because that angled part is not where it belongs, thereby pushing the knife out!

remove the hopper bowl, remove the shims, take out the knife, remove the metal piece and re shape the end to fit into the notch.
also check to see if the pin wheel is flush with the black plastic housing.
now with the metal piece properly placed, you should be able to lay the knife on it and it should lay perfectly flush on the metal piece and the pin wheel, with the chisel point on the shelf wheel. IT HAS TO BE PERFECTLY FLUSH, AND LAY THERE WITH NO ASSISTANCE FROM APPLIED PRESSURE.

if it does this, the secure it in position, now place a few quarters on the pinwheel and while holding the brake with left hand rotate the agitator with your right hand and watch the smooth transition of the quarter rolling onto the knife, traveling on the knife to the optic and then rolling out of the hopper.

Hope this helps,

I have hopper parts if you need.

Jim 

[Phan000]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Jim.  I’ll mess with it later.


One thing I noticed in regard to the brake-


When pushed in the shelf wheel does not free spin.  It is still locked pretty tight. Is there a way to manually disengage the drive besides pushing in the brake?  Does this mean the clutch is bad?


If anyone has a photo of the way the coin deflector is supposed to look installed, I would appreciate it. 


I can see it a bit on the YouTube video above, but a photo would help.


Thanks again

[Ken]

There will be resistance when trying to turn it. If it's frozen the the motor is shot.

[Phan000]

It wiggles a bit and does operate with power, just won’t disengage to allow me to free spin on the bench.

[Stayouttadabunker]

When you squeeze the brake release against the motor body, you're pushing a spring loaded rake pawl that moves a small lever against the motor shaft.
Is the brake pawl moving away from the shaft or grabbing?


If it's releasing the shaft, and the motor is having a really hard time to turn, you need the service the transmission.
THAT'S a greasy job!!

A bad working hopper transmission forces the power supply to divert a LOT of amps to get that motor to turn.

Basically, one malfunction leads to another.