Can I build my own machine and is it feasible?

[banyans]

So because of logistics of where I live I have been thinking about just buying as much of the "working" components and building my own custom cabinet. Very early in my thinking but gotta start somewhere.

First, are most upright components interchangeable with slant top components? I understand the differences with the hopper/board layouts in the factory cabinets but can they be used/interchanged in a custom cabinet?

Im looking at only coin in/coin out. No BV. Unsure if I would include a handle/arm yet.

So, any advice/suggestions as to the positives or drawbacks? Is this even feasible/possible? I found my current machine somewhat reasonably priced here on the island, fixed it thanks to the people here and actually have had 4 digit offers on the machine. The problem is I dont want to sell it unless/until I have another toy/project to play with. Also there is nothing available where I live.

I havent actually looked up what the shipping cost would be to ship a whole machine here but I have to believe its equal to or more than what an S+ machine would cost from the mainland. I'm going to assume the cabinet is half the weight of a machine so shipping a couple of boxes with the components shouldnt be too awful vs a crate with a whole machine/cabinet is my thinking. 

I have also thought about doing this with a S2000 vs S+ - but leaning towards the S+ as I would have my current machine for reference/troubleshooting.

Thanks again, and if Im crazy thinking its ok to tell me so.

[jay]

Upright and Slant components are somewhat interchangeable.
The reel baskets between a Upright and a Slant have the strip knotch in a different place.
This is due to the angle of the glass. If you had Slant reel baskets and planned to use them in a upright machine you could offset the strips so they would show correctly.

The Slant Hopper does not dump into a coin try - they dump into an elevator that brings the coins up to the top of the machine. The hopper is the same but the plastic bowl is different

IMHO the mechanics of the Coin handling and slot arm is probably the most complicated piece of building the slot. Coin goes in, passes through the comparator then the optics. Assuming the coin passes correctly a solenoid is pulled back and the coin is allowed to go to the hopper otherwise it hits the diverter and is ejected back to the coin tray. Its these mechanics that might give you some grief in a custom built cabinet. All the wiring harnesses between the parts are easily disconnected and reconnected via molex connectors.

The arm has a locking solenoid - when the slot is ready to be played the solenoid is pulled back and the arm can be pulled down - Other than the mechanics its really no more than a simple switch run in parallel to the SPIN button.

Even the bill validator is a simple connection to the slot via a molex and a power supply plug in. Between the head transport and cash can mechanism its all pretty much one unit when screwed together. Just got to build the cabinet around it.

S+ Parts will be cheaper than S2000 parts. The S2000 often uses a printer vs coin in/out and subsequently you need the bill validator for either bills or tito.

From a shipping perspective the power supply (big ass transformer) will be your heavy part and potentially the cash can and transport with the bill validator if you do add one.

[banyans]

Thanks for the response Jay,

My thoughts were if someone had a machine that the cabinet got broken/fell over/ etc. that I could pick up pretty much all the parts I would need. If not I figured I might have to mix up parts from an upright and slant top. I figured if this were to happen I could use my machine as reference to wire up everything to a new cabinet, a custom cabinet being very similar to a factory upright.  I would slant the reel glass some but figured I could also slant the reel tray so that I could use upright reel cages. But that to me would be an easy fix, I would hope.
    Im not stuck on using an arm/handle as I would be just as happy with the standard buttons, and the reduced weight of not having to have a handle/arm assembly shipped over is also a plus. My concerns on weight were the hopper, power supply, reel tray and possibly the coin tray if I were to use one. I think everything else would be lighter than those items mentioned. From what I have read here upgrading a BV on an S+ to accept all newer bill is not possible or would cost a pretty sum. I have the DBV200 and its ok but I would not put a BV into this machine if I were to build it.

I guess I need to make a list of the parts I think I will need. Thats gonna entail me opening my machine and basically taking pics of the components and beginning my search. I know I will miss items as I am not too fluent with the machine (such as the hopper tray/slide track) but if I can get a good start on components, picking up the ones I have forgotten shouldnt be too difficult.

There is/was a listing on ebay for a broken slant machine, I messaged the guy and he seems to be ok with removing the components out of the machine and sending to me, but its still kind of up in the air. The cabinet is cracked and he had the error 12. He ended the listing and said he was gonna replace the battery and relist so I'm kind of waiting to see where that goes. His original listing was priced at $70 which started me on this whole idea of building my own machine.

Thanks again and any advice/suggestions are more than welcome,

Philip

[jay]

Slant machines are a nightmare to move at the best of times. Certainly not (getting them down to) basement friendly.
One option is to look for a Bartop machine. ITs basically a slant without the cabinet.

Regarding Bill validation
IGT wanted to kill off the S+ in favor of the S2000 platform, but the machines are just too reliable.

The way they did that is to change the bill acceptor protocol. Then they stopped paying JCM (Japanese Cash Machine - the makers of DBV and WBA) to develop bill acceptance for the old protocols.
Theoretically this happened right when the "new" colored $5 came out. JCM anticipating the new money and had already developed the validation technology and for a good many months the $5's didn't work but then the code got leaked, and shared. It was a good year from then until the new $100 came out and JCM already knew not to spend time/money developing the validation sequences.

The new money also has magnetic properties and none of the older DBV validators had sensors for them. The newer WBA have the sensors but the ones that work with the S+ protocol are not programmed to use the sensors.  So if your not concerned about the new $100's the DBV200 can be made to take all the cash, but if they ever change a bill again your out of luck.

The S+ also does not support SAS - which is a communication protocol that only used to be used for player tracking. The S+ had 3rd party boards for player tracking that did do SAS, but with the S2000 now handling it directly IGT could sell their own player tracking systems and also support TITO (Ticket In/Out) through the bill validator.

I had found on Youtube a protocol convertor that allowed the S2000 protocol to translate to a S+/PE+ protocol but I have never found a place to buy one.

You used to see a fair number of S+ machines in Caribbean resorts.

Going a completely different route on this - Cherry Masters often seen in West Virginia and Houston are forms of Video Slots - you can buy the electronics cheaply on Ebay and add a LCD screen and even a simple mechanical coin mech and you have a fully functional slot. Bill validation is often done with a pulse method commonly used with vending machines. Vending machines are far less concerned about fraudulent bills than a casino - Rip off a vending machine you get $75 in stale chocolate at best.

[banyans]

Thanks Jay,

Well you solidified my thoughts of not using a BV!! I Have no intention on using a SAS or TITO, was just thinking of drop your quarter in and press the button kind of setup.

I looked at the Cherry Masters, just not what Im looking for. Old as it is, I kind of like the S+ due to it being somewhat easy to work on and once working they last forever.

Thanks again

[Trisail]

I gutted 2 S2000 machines recently and will be shipping the 2nd set soon, I will know cost for lower 48 is only reason I'm mentioning.  I checked on shipping the top box, 24x20x20 38 pounds UPS, $68 here, $300-$400 to you.
I have some S2000 parts left and other parts I would be willing to work with you on. I don't have any S+ cabinet to gut at the moment.  (There is one here on offerup asking $75, with broken belly glass, no BV, works, . Let me know if you would like to work something on that, shipping is your only cost then for the guts, which could still be costly)

PM me if you want, glad to help.
Tony

[Stayouttadabunker]

I've made quite a few  S+ cabinets out of wood.

The only exterior parts I couldn't really make was the door and coin tray.

To secure the door to a wooden cabinet required me to make a metal interior wall bracket fastened to the wood inside.

This way the piano hinge would have something solid to attach to...found it stronger to weld the piano hinge to the bracket.

Because the walls of the wooden cabinet are solid, I had to find a different way to hook the coin tray to the cabinet.

Also, the door latch had to slide onto bolts that I welded to metal plates attached to the door cabinet side.


It was a great project for me but believe me, it's a lot of work, trial and error getting it right..

I will never do it again....found it much easier just to go hunting for old metal OEM cabinets trashed in dumpsters and restoring them instead...haha

An empty cabinet isn't very heavy at all...in fact, it's quite lightweight....it's the bulk of it that makes the shipping high to the island.

As Trisail mentioned, the topbox is pretty heavy...>>>(38lbs)...so are power supply units because of the transformers inside of metal caged boxes.

Maybe when I get a chance, I will send you a photo of a brand new wooden upright cabinet I had made to give you an idea how hard it is to make...lol

[jay]

There are also a cruise ship version of the S+
It’s lighter weight. Smaller, thinner materials.
The glass is a non standard size so it’s harder to find.

[banyans]

Thanks Stayouttadabunker and Jay,

Pictures/diagrams/drawings would be awesome. Im not stuck on reproducing the factory cabinet. I had seen one made out of either a IGT or Bally that was the stand and machine all in one, no belly glass. Reel glass was more slanted and the top box was thinner. Cabinet was made out of oak and it looked pretty nice finished. Unfortunately I cant find the pictures anymore. I wouldnt need the casino type security on the door so I have some leeway there. Thought about making two doors, one for the reel glass, one for the hopper/buttons/belly glass area. I really dont have any solid cabinet design in mind yet as I was/am waiting to see if I can get all the parts needed shipped over reasonably. But please send me your pictures when you can. My email is: philipbolek@hotmail.com.

Thanks,
Philip

[Stayouttadabunker]

You can make them out of plywood as well and glue some nice laminate onto the plywood if you want....add trim too.

I stuck all sorts of  S+ stuff inside a Cherry master type of cabinet....designs are readily found online.

You can add all sorts of lighting to go off when you get a decent hit just untilizing the bell output and a relay to set it off by programming the bell settings lower for more LED lighting action....you can even make the deck buttons go nuts with LEDs too...lol

The ideas are endless on what you can do with an S+....if you get S2000 guts, you can do even more really.

[banyans]

Stayouttadabunker,

Yep, Im not set on any type of material just yet. It may end up being plywood. Gonna keep my eyes open for some armoires/old cabinets though.

I definitely will be interested in the enhanced lighting options that you mention. I just need to do a bunch of stuff first.

Pretty sure Tony (trisail) is gonna set me up with the "insides" of a S+. Its what I wanted because I will be able to use my machine as reference.

Thanks,
Philip

[gameking6]

I've always seen these machines as very complicated and the thought of building one up seems like quite a challenge. I applaud your undertaking. When I first saw this thread I thought the obvious; ....Plywood, then I thought, with the cost of plywood here in the "48" I can't imagine what the cost is there. What is the price you pay for plywood in Hawaii what kind of price deference between Islands?
I look forward to following this threads progress and seeing your completed project.
Good luck with you endeavor.

[sixcardmark]

There are also aluminum cabinets out there, also made for ships.  Not sure about s+ but I have a couple aluminum S2000s and one aluminum 17" game king.

[banyans]

Gameking6,

Thanks.....you dont the half of it !!! I dont have a garage or shed, I live upstairs and my patio/lanai is my workspace. I dont own a soldering gun/iron.....

But....I dont think Im stupid and I know how to follow directions and intructions so I got that going for me.

I like the S+ first because its what I have, I can use my current machine for reference/troubleshooting. Second, Im not a electronics whiz, I dont know a capacitor from a diode. But I can change out the component vs trying to fix a board. Lots of guys here know how to fix/replace a little electronic thinga majigger, I dont and I dont see me learning it any time too soon. Example is: My BV power supply was not working. Had advice to change out these little capacitors on the board, which is solid advice if I knew how to solder and knew what a capacitor was. Instead I was able to buy a new power supply pretty cheap from a vendor here. Plugged it in and all is good. No soldering, screwing up trying to fix the old one.

Now for the best part - Im not a carpenter/cabinet maker, but I know one and he is a pretty solid friend and more than capable of building me a good cabinet. The problems I foresee is having a partial built cabinet in my house while I fit pieces in and relay dimensions to him for the door layout. I think if I get the 3 sides of a cabinet built that will allow me to install the reel shelf, power supply, hopper etc. Its gonna be the fabricating of the door for me that will be hard because It will be made at a different location. Other issues are gonna be if I start off with clean sheets of plywood or use old armoires/cabinets. My cabinet maker friend said decent 3/4" 4' x 8' sheet of plywood is around $80 here. I see cabinets/shelving units/armoires either free or cheap listed quite often here and I like the idea of using hardwood planks vs plywood. That brings up another problem, I dont have a truck to go and pick up these free cabinets....

So.....Am I intimidated? Yes and No, I dont have a time line and as I have grown older so has my patience (somewhat) so I gotta think like the turtle/hare race, slow and steady.

Sixcardmark, these holy grail aluminum machines have been mentioned to me. But I will probably have better luck doing the above vs finding one cheap enough to ship here.

Thanks guys,
I will update as I make progress,

Philip

[banyans]

Sorta kinda what I have in mind. Obviously I would have to use slant top reel cages.

[sixcardmark]

I have a set of s/t reel cages if you need them.

[jay]

These antique style cabinets are very attractive.
Much better alternative to replicating a standard S+ cabinet out of wood.

I would however consider the playability of a tall cabinet in which you need to look down to see the reels.
The classic S+/S2000/Bally designs where the reels are in the front level with the eye encourage slot play for hours.
If you need to be over top of it to see it your knees are going to be knocking the front from a bar stool

For some of the antique looking parts like the claw foots and corners - I have bought from Vandykes before when I was building out my bar.
https://www.vandykes.com/casters-paw-feet-toe-caps/c/1642/

I really don't think your going to have any issues in putting together a S+ - you could easily collect all the parts and get things working on a table without a cabinet.
Everything is plugged in with Molex connectors other than the funny Hopper plug in - but its still a plug in
Again the only challenges I think your going to have is the mechanical aspects of the diverter bar and the slot arm.
The latter in which you said you were going to avoid but if your going  for the antique look - you might want to re-consider.

With regards to wood - I built my bar out of walnut plywood - one side is good the other is ply wood - but as its a very hard wood its not easy to stain.
I first had to use a sponge with water to "crack the grain" - I did this for four nights in a row. Next I used a pre-stain penetrator to prep the wood.
The stain then took very nicely, but I also sanded between the three coats - and the varnish afterwards makes it look spectacular.
I am very happy with the results but If I had to do it all over again - I wouldn't. Just too much product and too much work.

My friend who is a cabinet maker suggested that next time - and there is likely a next time - (as my spouse wants to move) that I use the cheapest crap (wood) possible and get sheets of reel wood laminate in oak, cherry or whatever and glue it to the finished sides. Its already designed to take stain so none of the prep is necessary. The suggestion for crap wood was 3/8th plywood that is used for subflooring as it is abundant. Talk it over with your guy..... as he might have some ideas around this as well.

On another wood related note - we have friends in Costa Rica - who live about 3 housing rows from the beach. They replaced their kitchen cabinets a few years back - press board material (I think from Idea) and everything has swollen due to the high moisture content in the air and looks like crap now.  So this might be a cautionary tail about using anything other than 100% solid wood.

[banyans]

Sixcardmark,

Thanks, if I go the route where I need the slant cages you're the guy I will be contacting. Thanks again.


Jay,

Thanks again for all the information, more is better !! Im not set on any cabinet design as of yet, my main focus is to see if I can gather up all the "guts" first and as you mentioned lay out on a table to ensure most of it is working. Once Im at that point I will direct more focus into the cabinet build. And yes, I would like to have the arm/handle, my hesitations were shipping costs only. Thanks for the woodworking link, I have saved it in my favorites for later.

We have lived pretty close to the ocean since moving here and currently live directly across the street from, at times, raging surf coming over the roofs of the houses across from us. My house is pretty much open air, I can watch the metal room fans drip/sweat rust.....
Im not a fan of pressed/particle wood at all !!

Thanks again guys

[jay]

You could make a list of parts, and see if anyone is coming your way....
Hawaii is a destination that many frequent. Wouldn't be too hard to ask someone to throw a few wiring harnesses, candle or reel shelf in their carry on.
You might consider trading a night in a hammock on your lanai for a set of reel buttons. lol

I was looking at Maui in February 2022, back in March there was a seat sales for under $500 (Canadian) round trip, the four seasons had room rates that totaled around $1200 for 9 nights.
On the negative, returning from the US would have cost us 14days in quarantine, with 3 of those mandated to be at a government approved hotel with a $2k price tag (yes they were discouraging travel).
Now no quarantine required for fully vaxed with Canadian approved Vax's and of course a negative covid test.

So unfortunately I missed that window.... Currently $788 flights, and $1109/night at the Four seasons.. ouch.  The Motel 6 is now at that $139 mark....and not on the beach 

The California Casino just off of Fremont also attracts a lot of Hawaiian visitors.
Perhaps you know someone going that direction that can bring you back a few bits... they say 1 in 10 Hawaiians visit this hotel.... annually.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/how-california-hotel-shaped-las-vegas-hawaii-s-ninth-island-n992761