Dead Battery, Power to MPU, Stiff Reels, No burns….. NO LEDs

[850mph]

Noobie here, going straight to the experts for quick diagnosis:

Double Diamond Deluxe will not run after power up.

Fuses test ok, machine Gi lights up, reels tighten and validator cycles.

Above tells me mpu is getting power.

No candle lights, no initial reel spin, no test button functionality…. NO power to red LEDs.

Battery is dead……. Could this prevent the machine from booting?

Advice, pointers, directions, opinions welcome and appreciated!

[Tilt]

Welcome to NLG. 

The dead battery won't prevent the MPU from booting.  If it did boot it would give you a 12 error code indicating the battery is low.  With no LED display and no candle light activity it's safe to say your MPU is not booting.  Pull it out, take a picture of it, and post it here and we'll see if anything is obviously wrong.

[850mph]

THNX for quick response!
Attached is photo of board….
Do you need more detail on areas?
5th….

[850mph]

Can I also ask some noobie questions?

1) any harm in turning on power while board is out of machine?
2) any harm in turning on power while hopper is out of machine?

Also-

I have another known working machine with the same SP chip.

If I swap the boards— without first swapping he SS chip— can ghis help diagnose the LED problem?
-or-
DoI need to first swap the SS chip from the non-working game into the known working board?

And lastly…

If I remove/swap either SP or SS chip, and then put them back into the same board after testing a different board, will I need a CLEAR chip and SET chip to get the PROM memory to function again…..

I have no Clear, Set chips.

Any other comments or pointers to correct procedures for SWAP-TESTING known working for non working parts?

Thnx

[850mph]

I’m guessing I should try and swap the wiring harness first.. BEFORE I start swapping boards or chips…. As it seems to provide a lot of problems for others….

Does the fact that the reels don’t move when the machine is on indicate that SOME of the pins are providing power to the motherboard and that ONE or more  PINs within the molex connector has failed?


Can I test the voltages on the 6 wire molex that comes out of the transformer?
Which female receptacles should I test:
There are two green, blue, brown, orange and orange green.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Replying to your first buncha questions.
1)Yes...bad idea...burns out stuff. Not a good idea.
2). No...machine doesn't need hopper until it's time to pay out coins.
You can shove in or remove a coin hopper while the power is on but of course...it's always bette to tun off the power switch.

You can swap boards.
You just need to clear the [61] message by holding in the little white test button for 2-3 seconds until you see [61-1].
That's when you turn the jackpot reset key momentarily to get the machine to boot up.
You don't need to swap the SS reel chip to test this cabinet.
The machine won't see the difference between same SP chips...but it will get the [61] message if you change anything other numbered chips.
That's not a poblem.
You probably won't ever need to use a Clear chip.
That's normally for people who don't know what they're doing.
The ONLY time you'd eve need it is for a [61-1] Loop...that rarely ever happens but if you think you should get one for "just in case", then go get one.
You DO need a Set015 chip to enable a bill acceptor though.
Swap anything you want....just tun off the power first.

Go on the home page of NLG and browse thru "Rick's FAQ's".
Lotta stuff for you there.
If you scroll down, it'll be on the right hand side...>>>

http://www.newlifegames.net/newbie/

2nd buncha questions...>>>

I'd change the battery first if you're sure it's dead....but you still should have gotten a code [12]?
You reels are stiff...display should be on....wiggle the Molex up and down on the motherboard pins while the door is open....watch for the denomination lamp to come on on the back of the reel glass display. (Assuming you have the long reel glass display?)
Below is the power supply Molex pin voltages in the housing on the pins...>>>

[850mph]

While comparing two machines…

I found the little bulb inside the door of the non-working machine was burnt…..

The working machine has no bulb.

[Stayouttadabunker]

With the power OFF, twist that fluorescent starter ballast guts out of the socket.
If you touch that, it's only 115 volts AC!!
The cover was broken off of the starter.

[Tilt]

Is the reel PROM installed correctly in its socket?  I could see the notch on the SP EPROM, but couldn't make out the reel. 

No, it won't hurt anything to power the machine with the MPU or hopper out of the machine.  Just do not have the power turned on when you remove or re-install them! 

You can swap MPUs from one machine to the other, but in doing so you most likely lose some of the settings on your working board.  If you swap the MPU as is complete after you clear the 61 error the paytable will be off because the reel strips don't match the reel eprom that installed.  That's OK if you just want to see if the machine boots with a known working MPU board.  In swapping the MPU to the other machine you run the risk that you could get into a 61 loop where the only way out it to clear the machine.  If that happens then you would need a clear (and set to re-enable the bill validator).  You should get a set anyhow, because you'll need them sooner or later. 

You can swap the harness too if you want to.  It's most likely good since you said the stepper motors on the reels are energized.  The telltale symptom of that harness being burnt is only cabinet lights, steppers not energized, no led displays, no denomination light, and no candle lights.  In other words dead except for the fluorescent lamps.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Good eyes Tilt!
  That SS reel chip DOES look backwards!

[850mph]

THANX … Will try all suggestions this eve!

Other suggestions welcome.. as im certain it will be a long evening!

[Stayouttadabunker]

Just flipping your SS Reel chip around should fix it...unless it got cooked? 

[sixcardmark]

That SS chip is probably toast.

[850mph]

GREAT EYES…..

YES…. the chip was backwards and is TOAST as far as I can tell.

Remounted the chip correctly and I get Nada.. no change, No candle, no LEDs.

Guy I bought the machine from assured me it was JUST the battery, but he must have tried to diagnose it by removing and reinstalling the SS chip, and he ended up reinstalling WRONG.

I give him the benefit of the doubt that he made an error which fried the chip WHILE he thought it was a battery error preventing the LEDs…. Hey, no use crying over…. Yada, yada, yada.

IMPORTANT QUESTION

Would the backwards SS chip cause any other damage to the machine or board?

And just because I’m a curious type…..

Any way to test the SS chip alone?

I have a logic probe, but have no idea if/how to use it.

I’d like to check the SS chip (if possible) before I start swapping boards around.

[Tilt]

Well, it may not be THE problem, but it is a problem. 

Personally I'd contact member RB, get another SS chip and a SET/CLR set from him too before proceeding any further.  It's unlikely installing the chip backwards damaged anything other than the chip itself.  If you want a higher or lower payback % than your current SS chip has now would be the time to do that too.

[850mph]

Thank you all.
YES.. I will get a set of chips and move forward.

[850mph]

Just going over advice on this thread…

Can someone please confirm:

Assuming all connections have proper juice…

1) The non-illuminating LED problem is NOT related to the dead battery.
— the LEDs should work, even when the battery is dead
— I have ordered a new battery

2) the non-illuminating LED problem IS related to the SS chip
— the LEDs should NOT work, because of the dead chip
— I have ordered a new chip set

3) The stiff reels, indicate the MPU is getting power, but no candle light indicates a problem with the SS chip
— the non working candle is related to the dead SS chip


IN OTHER WORDS… THE DEAD SS CHIP IS PREVENTING THE LEDS AND CANDLE FROM FUNCTIONING..??

SORRY to be so “dense” on my end.. but there’s a lot of GOOD advice on this thread which assumes I understand the obvious… but I don’t have enough experience to understand the obvious yet.


I Don’t want to destroy/reset the working board or other parts of the machine (obviously) by swapping stuff around just yet.

Two questions as I try and isolate the problem:

Assuming the dead SS chip does NOT prevent power to the LEDs or Candle…
And I have stiff reels on power up….

A) should I measure the juice at the candle
— If dead…. would this indicate ANOTHER part of the Main board is damaged?
— or candle itself

B) should I measure voltage at the individual LEDs or LED board
— if dead… would this Indicate ANOTHER part of the Main Board is damaged?
— or the LED board itself

Or am I way off here and too anxious to just DO SOMETHING…. should I just wait for the new SS chip as suggested?


UPDATE 4am

Found this thread, which seems to indicate replacing the SP Chip is the solution to the LED problem

https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=35195.0

Should I order an SP chip and just replace both chips?

While I KNOW my battery is dead and the SS chip fried…
Is the consensus that barring power problems (which can be discarded because of the Dom light) when the LEDs don’t light, it’s a SP chip problem?

Any comments from the knowledgeable?

Thnx

Thnx.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Get 4 chips from RB like yesterday.
An SS Reel chip, an SP GAME chip, a Clear chip, and a SET015 chip to enable the BV.
If it were my MPU, I'd solder in a coin cell battery holder like in the photo below.
The SS REEL PROM chip holds the programming for the awards and payouts, etc.etc.
The SP GAME PROM chip is like the operating system for the MPU, sort of like Windows XP is for a desktop computer.
It holds the progamming for the behavior of different machine components such as the candle...that's why I'm suggesting that you buy a new SP chip for your machine as well.

We know the battery helps hold the Options/ Settings information, internal accounting, etc.etc. but if the battery is dead or goes too low, the MPU tends to exhibit erratic behavior.
We may never know if the internal accounting remains intact or not, because of someone inaverdently installing the SS Reel chip backwards in the socket.
Stick in the new reel chip first  before doing anything else, then turn on the machine to see if the display comes on.
If the battery is dead, you'll get a code [12] on the display board.
Now you can change the battery.

The "LED board"...are you talking about the display board?
That won't come on until you have working software chips.
The candle...pull out the lamps/bulbs out of the candle and check those individually with your multimeter for continuity.
The stiffs reels is good....that means your power supply is ok.
Watch the display as you wiggle the power Molex up and down on the motherboard male pins....see if the display board comes to life but you may have to wait until your MPU has a fresh battery installed and working software chips.

[850mph]

I have emailed RB….
Will a PM work quicker?
I see in past posts some people have indicated RBs email box gets filled and bounces messages.

OK.. EMAIL WORKED… THNX.

[Tilt]

S+ uses a 3.6V 1/2AA battery.  If you want to use a battery holder this is the correct one.  The coin cell bunker posted is for S2000 machines. 

No, there's nothing to say that replacing your reel prom is going to solve the other problems.  That's why I stated you found a problem, but it may not be the problem.  It's possible that the previous owner installed it backwards trying to troubleshoot it just like you said.  Sometimes you can't rule things out without replacing them.  Your reel chip may still be good.  I've installed EPROMs backwards before and powered them up that way.  Sometimes it doesn't hurt anything, sometimes it does.  No way to know without being able to test it or replace it.  I know you have another S+ machine and yes, you could use that to test things.  Since you are new I don't think that's something you should pursue though because you'll likely end up with both machines being down. 

Hopefully the reel chip will get it going again.  If not, then you'll have to do some more troubleshooting.