044 Screen getting cut off Or positioning problem

[marcdavis]

I am working on a friends 17” 044 GameKing. Put in a new lcd (hp) and the screen is getting cut off at the bottom. See pics. I have tried auto-adjust on the panel and manually adjusting the vertical position but no luck. He also has a 3902 with the same lcd and the display is perfect. Swapping the displays didn’t fix it. Does the 044 expect a different kind of display? These panels are 5x4 aspect ratio 17” vga. Would 4x3 be better?

[rickhunter]

You need 4x3. 

[marcdavis]

You need 4x3.

So 3902s are 5x4 and 044s are 4x3?

[rickhunter]

They are all 4x3's. But 3902's use a different sync line that 044's.  On some monitors a jumper needs to be moved in order of the monitor to work right on an 044 platform, on my 17" cabinet the LCD has an option in the setup menu to select between IGT 039, IGT 044, and IGT AVP.  You can't just measure the outside of the monitor to determine aspect ratio.  You hit the menu button on the monitor to see what resolution is being displayed.  both 3902 and 044 use 640x480.

[marcdavis]

The monitors I’m using are generic/branded panels, hp, Dell, etc. no setting for Igt types on those. They are all 5:4. But I can get 4:3 if those will work better.

[rickhunter]

Do the monitors have some sort of overscan setting?  The only reason why the video would be chopped off is because it is stretching a 640 x 480 image to fit horizontally.  Is there a "stretch to fit," or fill option on the menus that can be disabled on the monitor"  These are just 640x480 images, ANY monitor should be able to display that without problems.

[marcdavis]

I agree - any of the monitors I am using should be able to display 640x480 VGA; I am beginning to think the problem may be in the vga breakout box I am using to connect the monitor to the 19-pin connector. Further investigation is necessary. Thanks for the input guys - I will post my results after I experiment more.


MD
 

[marcdavis]

    


Ok – after testing I am still at a loss. Here is the equipment and the issue:


Machine 1: 17” IGT GameKing; 3902 MPU, 19 Pin monitor harness; Monitor: HP L1710* LCD, VGA
Machine 2: 17” IGT GameKing; 044 MPU, 19 pin monitor harness; Monitor: HP L1710* LCD, VGA
Machine 3: 19” IGT GameKing; 044 MPU, 25 pin monitor harness; Monitor: HP L1710* LCD, VGA (for testing, has a working 19” Kortek normally)


* same monitor used on all three for testing purposes; also tested with a Dell 19” LCD; same behaviors
Machine 2 is the troublemaker. Here is what I am seeing:


Machine 1; works normally with HP LCD – picture is perfect; vertical and horizontal spacing are normal; entire screen is visible; horizontal and vertical controls on monitor work as expected


Machine 3; works normally with HP LCD – picture is perfect; vertical and horizontal spacing are normal; entire screen is visible; horizontal and vertical controls on monitor work as expected


Machine 2: with HP LCD - Picture quality is fine – but vertical positioning is off; the vertical position is about a half-inch too low – so the bottom row of text and most of the on-screen buttons are below the monitor’s physical screen area. The monitor’s OSD controls for vertical and horizontal positioning do not appear to work when this monitor is connected to machine 2 – meaning when I adjust them there is no visible change to the display or maybe just a 1-pixel difference (they work perfectly on machines 1,3 and when connected to a laptop). Auto-adjust attempts to reposition the screen but it always falls below the visible boundary of the lcd panel. This panel does not have IGT preferences in the OSD or any jumpers to switch – as these are commodity panels.


I’ve gone over the wiring diagrams for the 17” and 19” cabinets – not seeing anything that would lead me in a new direction for troubleshooting.


So – can someone help me understand what is going wrong here? This is just supposed to be 640x480 VGA RGBHV + ground; is there some weird compatibility issue with the 044 platform when using a 19-pin harness? I read somewhere on NLG (can’t find the thread at the moment) that there is some different sync signal with the 044 – is this true and what does that mean relative to what I am seeing?


Appreciate the help as always!

[Tilt]

Swap the 044 MPU board between machine #2 and machine #3 and see if the problem follows the MPU board.  3902 boards had a couple of different video FPGA configuration PROMs and would cause the screen to shift swapping one with another.  Haven't heard of the same thing with 044 MPU's, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  U78 on the 044 board is the configuration PROM for the video FPGA and mine doesn't have any program version information on it which the 3902's do.
The only difference between 19 and 25 pin monitors is that they added separate grounds for the RGB signals with 25 pin version.

[marcdavis]

Swap the 044 MPU board between machine #2 and machine #3 and see if the problem follows the MPU board.  3902 boards had a couple of different video FPGA configuration PROMs and would cause the screen to shift swapping one with another.  Haven't heard of the same thing with 044 MPU's, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  U78 on the 044 board is the configuration PROM for the video FPGA and mine doesn't have any program version information on it which the 3902's do.
The only difference between 19 and 25 pin monitors is that they added separate grounds for the RGB signals with 25 pin version.

Thanks for the suggestions! Unfortunately Machine 2 is not in the same physical location as machines 1 and 3 so swapping the MPUs is problematic. I am really hoping it is not the MPU or backplane... those things are like hens teeth to find (at a reasonable price). What keeps bugging me is why the OSD vertical and horizontal controls have little effect on machine 2 but behave normally on 1 and 3.


Question: I keep reading that the resolution is different on the 3902 vs the 044; And the 044 visibly has a better picture so I am guessing the resolution is higher. Do you happen to know what resolutions and frequencies the 3902 and the 044 output? I can't find that info anywhere.


Thx


Marc
[size=78%] [/size]

[marcdavis]

They are all 4x3's. But 3902's use a different sync line that 044's.  On some monitors a jumper needs to be moved in order of the monitor to work right on an 044 platform, on my 17" cabinet the LCD has an option in the setup menu to select between IGT 039, IGT 044, and IGT AVP.  You can't just measure the outside of the monitor to determine aspect ratio.  You hit the menu button on the monitor to see what resolution is being displayed.  both 3902 and 044 use 640x480.

Hi rickhunter - can you elaborate on that different sync line? The cabling is RGBHV + Ground; so horizontal and vertical sync. I have tested the same monitor on a 039, 19 pin, and 044 19 pin and an 044 25 pin. The picture looks fine on the 039-19 and the 044-25 - so I don't see how the HV sync could be different; it only doesn't display properly on the 044-19.
 

[rickhunter]

Most of the literature refer to switching the H/V Sync.  Here's a doc from ceronix.  On monitors meant for gaming, their firmware includes this menu option.  Since you are trying to adapt a pc monitor to it, I don't know what you would need to do.

[marcdavis]

I saw that - are they implying the h and v sync wires are flipped and the (ceronix) monitor needs to switch those signals (internally) to make it work? I can certainly test switching the H & V pins on my vga connector by way of an adapter - but if this was the case I would think the monitor would not display anything at all as the sync signal would be out of range for what it was expecting - but will give it a try. Thx!


Marc

[marcdavis]

Ok - So it seems the problem must have been in the two HP panels I used; I built another 17" touchscreen using a Viewsonic panel and was able to use the Horizontal and Vertical screen controls to properly center the display on the 044 19-pin GameKing. The HP Panels would not adjust themselves using the On Screen Controls. It is still odd that those controls work when not connected to the GK but I will leave that to a glitch in the Matrix.


So - if anyone wants to repro it - the final touchscreen was a ViewSonic VA705-LED 17" panel mated to a 3M 17-9391-204-01 capacitive touchscreen. I 3D printed clips to mount the panel to the door - if anyone would like the file I will be happy to share it. I also have clips for the HP panels.


Marc